I think out of all the Legends 2 planes, this one is my favorite. Fantastic work by the whole team on the direction for all these planes, and the project as a whole. As an observer, it's been really fun to watch the whole project shape up. Dropping by with my two cents, I really like the idea of beasts who literally change with the telling of the tales around them. Suuuuuuper juicy on the flavor end. As I thought more and more about the concept, the idea for a beast tribal subtheme really started to take shape in my head as a possibility for the set, if focused in a particular drafting color pair. I'm not sure how viable this would be with all the different pieces floating around in this set, but I could see it having support in this plane and the arctic plane at least. To support that vision of even the tiniest beast subtheme, it might be cool to have some cool beast boosters that reflect the changing narrative of beasts on the plane of Alezenim. For instance:
Fanciful Publisher1U
Creature — Human Wizard[UC]
Beasts you control have flying. "It soared across the sky with a wings bigger than the river's span." -The Almanac of Beast and Critters Vol. III
[1/2]
Like I said, not sure if there's room for this kind of thing, but it might be a neat point of flavor that ties worlds, mechanics, and themes together in a simple yet interesting way. Happy designing!
I like the idea, but I can't help but think that there's a better template option for this kind of effect. Modular cards exist to provide a level of choice, while this card wants players to perform specific actions in a specific order. I suggest that, instead of calling them modes, call them steps. The card would look like a level-up card except with the step number where the level would be. Players would be instructed to perform the steps sequentially, without confusing the cards with modular ones. You could also make it so the step cards sacrifice themselves automatically upon the final step, if all of the Saga cards end the same way.
Thank you for the input! Yes, I think the idea of going in order is what we were looking for in concept. Would a custom template be better than re-using level up though? I think I remember hearing that the template didn't go over well. Would you have any ideas about how to create a better format? And as the the sacrifice at the end, no. We sort of went running with the idea, and while most will sacrifice themselves (especially the enchantments) I think it would limit the space of the mechanic. Thanks for the input!
Questions:
Do you want them to always be upkeep triggers? If so, we can condense the action word into a keyword.
Do you want them to always sacrifice upon completion of the stages? If so, we can put a sacrifice clause into the ability text instead of making it a separate stage.
Do you want them to all be enchantments? If so, then a subtype -Saga would be appropriate.
I've put together a quick example of all of this together using your example.
Runwyrd's Insights1U
Enchantment - Saga [C]
Saga (At the beginning of your upkeep, perform the next step not performed. When the last step resolves, sacrifice this.)
Step 1: Scry 3.
Step 2: Draw a card.
I can imagine this being applied to Auras, or even to Creatures, in which case the sacrifice clause wouldn't be desirable. In which case I would make the sacrifice part of the last step rather than it's own step (no point in having a do-nothing enchantment hang around).
Runwyrd's Insights1U
Enchantment - Saga [C]
Saga (At the beginning of your upkeep, perform the next step not performed.)
Step 1: Scry 3.
Step 2: Draw a card, then sacrifice this.
This is a creative idea, a nice blending of the Demonic Pact and Level Up concepts, it reminds me of the Ordeals in flavor. You could make this a set-defining major mechanic in a heroism, adventure, or exploration themed setting, very much like Theros or the original Zendikar, or as you indicate a Norse theme. Sagas would get their own text box template, and maybe even a special card frame to set them apart, really be the face of the set.
This has got my creative juices flowing, if you want, I'll come back with some of my own ideas.
Thanks for the kind words! In answer to your first three questions:
Yes, for uniformity's sake, I think we do want them to all trigger on upkeep, although my friend and I are playing with a mythic that would have its trigger on upkeep but have its effects happen at different parts of the turn.
No. As you stated, I think that this has broader applications than just static enchantments, so I think that your idea of a combined last step would help formatting if we did want it to sacrifice itself.
As for the last one... I'm not sure. This Norse world involves gods, so my friend and I are trying to be careful to distinguish it from Theros, and even from Amonkhet, which we've done by designing them broadly to be creatureish incarnations of larger Norse themes and thought patterns, almost a la elementals form Llorwyn, if more grandiose and humanoid. One God (Runwyrd) embodies the cyclical concept of time. Actually, let me just post him.
Runwyrd, Eternity's Form 3UU
Legendary Enchantment Creature - God
Saga — At the beginning of your upkeep, choose the next mode that hasn’t been chosen, starting with the first mode:
Shuffle your hand and graveyard into your library, then draw seven cards.
At the beginning of the next end step, untap each nonland permanent you control.
Exile Runwyrd, Eternity’s Form. Return it to the battlefield under it’s owner’s control at the beginning of your next upkeep.
2/7
Definitely a little pushed, definitely needs a little refining. I don't know if we want him to be an enchantment, as the Theros gods were, but on the other hand, he is for sure the most abstract of the five gods we designed.
With all this in mind, I think your second saga design best fits our template for the moment. I would however, love to see what you come up with it. To help get you on the general wavelength we are on, we were purposefully centering saga in G/U, although I'm intrigued by your idea for its wider application in the set as a flagship mechanic, as well as fancy ideas for templates. Brainstorming is always appreciated! Thank you for your time!
Hey all, a buddy and I throw around mechanics and ideas for cards all the time, and we were trying to capture the essence of a journey in a single card to reflect the poems and songs of heroes in Norse mythology. We sort of stewed on it for a while when a card hit me, Demonic Pact. The card reflects multiple steps of Liliana's coming of power, and with a slight tweak, could reflect a linear story. Behold, Saga!
Runwyrd’s Insights 1U
Enchantment common
Saga - At the beginning of your upkeep, choose the next mode that hasn’t been chosen, starting with the first mode:
Scry 3.
Draw a card
Sacrifice ~.
We both really like the idea, and wanted to use it for a custom set we're making, but thought that a little advice wouldn't hurt. Thank you for your time, and I hope to hear your thoughts on saga!
Not sure if you guys have seen this, as its kinda in the depths of the mtg internet, but I found this article here http://modernnexus.com/spirited-away-tribal-brewing-with-shadows-over-innistrad/ detailing a pretty sweet tallowisp list as well as reasoning through his thoughts. Anyone have thoughts on his list? I was seriously considering building it.
Granted, they've gotten re-printed recently, but I don't think Vendilion Clique is entirely out of the question. Didn't they play an important part in Lorwyn and Shadowmoor?
Really glad to have found your primer. I have a Teferi, Temporal Archmage deck that definitely aspires to be something similar to this. Im still gradually funneling money into the deck, but the game plan is pretty much the same; get mana and make big threats while controlling the boardstate. My meta however, is far less tuned than yours. The two decks that remotely compete with my deck so far are a Daretti deck that aspires to be a comboish deck someday, and a Chainer deck that sort of goes for good old fashioned Chainer value. As such, the most effective way to beat these decks is to have better value than them, making mana faster, having more efficient threats, and so forth. So, bottom line, I guess our metas are in separate stages of development. As far as you gaurding against combo, I think it very much depends on the kind of combo decks you're up against. The best answers to combo are seldom universal, except for counterspells, which you seem to have the cream of the crop of. I guess I would look at the decks your friends have, evaluate what you think are the "must answer threats" and pick silver bullets from there. While I think those cards MIGHT be dead in certain match-ups, I suspect that if your deck is anything like mine, you either have gas in hand, or value set up on the battlefield at any given point in time, making the dead card regrettable, but not a deathblow. Thanks for the primer, and I hope this helped a little!
I actually think Arjun is super cool and interesting. U/R artifacts has gotten a lot of love recently, so I'm glad we've got a guy like Arjun to inspire something different. I would also hesitate to think that Wizards would put a bunch of U/R artifact themed stuff in standard and not throw a bone to all the fans of the archetype in Shadows Over Innistrad...
Until we get a Legendary U/R creature that cares about artifacts, that's not love. Not for Commander at least. The current U/R cards that are legendary don't inspire artifact decks at all, and are there for colors only.
Innistrad isn't really a U/R heavy or really an artifact heavy plane... I fear we won't see more artifacts in bulk until after the Return to Innistrad block.
Its true that Innistrad isn't a super artifact heavy plane, but that doesn't mean that as far as gadgets and contraptions it has none. In fact, Innistrad is one of the more technologically advanced planes, in comparison to Theros, Tarkir, Llorwyn... It is actually pretty middling in terms of its gadgets, a la Geistcatcher's Rig, Rage Thrower, Conjurer's Closet, not to mention stichers using crazy contraptions to reanimate zombies. While their artifacts are tempered with, or channel magic, I think there is a lot of potential in the monster hunting business for some master tinker to enter the Innistrad scene. After all, someone has to make ghostbusting gadgets...
I actually think Arjun is super cool and interesting. U/R artifacts has gotten a lot of love recently, so I'm glad we've got a guy like Arjun to inspire something different. I would also hesitate to think that Wizards would put a bunch of U/R artifact themed stuff in standard and not throw a bone to all the fans of the archetype in Shadows Over Innistrad...
I'm kind of the "New Kid on the Block", but the results of the arguments would be interesting to hear, if anything new came up or a particular point swayed someone. Maybe warrants a thread? Or at least a post here? Either way, it would be helpful for everyone, not just the small group involved.
I also think that Vampiric Rites is pretty mediocre, although one mana to play makes it more appealing. Scythe Leopard isn't a card that I'm jumping to cube, but I would like to, if testing proves that hitting lands consistently for 3-4 turns makes a one mana 1/1 worth it. Lastly, I'm also in the camp that thinks Eldrazi Skyspawner is less good/interesting that other things I'm running, except for maybe Stormbound Giest. But It's kinda a pet card for me, so I'm not sure I want to cut it.
I know some people are considering cutting the conclave for the new sac land, but I think conclave is a pretty important tempo card. Plus the Standstill dream...That said though, the land is fantastic. Im running the cycling lands, so Ill probably cut those for the cycle.
Another great read! Thanks so much for putting it together! A quick aside, in your section on minor characters, General Jarkeld doesn't have his own card linked.
Fanciful Publisher 1U
Creature — Human Wizard[UC]
Beasts you control have flying.
"It soared across the sky with a wings bigger than the river's span." -The Almanac of Beast and Critters Vol. III
[1/2]
Like I said, not sure if there's room for this kind of thing, but it might be a neat point of flavor that ties worlds, mechanics, and themes together in a simple yet interesting way. Happy designing!
Thank you for the input! Yes, I think the idea of going in order is what we were looking for in concept. Would a custom template be better than re-using level up though? I think I remember hearing that the template didn't go over well. Would you have any ideas about how to create a better format? And as the the sacrifice at the end, no. We sort of went running with the idea, and while most will sacrifice themselves (especially the enchantments) I think it would limit the space of the mechanic. Thanks for the input!
Thanks for the kind words! In answer to your first three questions:
Yes, for uniformity's sake, I think we do want them to all trigger on upkeep, although my friend and I are playing with a mythic that would have its trigger on upkeep but have its effects happen at different parts of the turn.
No. As you stated, I think that this has broader applications than just static enchantments, so I think that your idea of a combined last step would help formatting if we did want it to sacrifice itself.
As for the last one... I'm not sure. This Norse world involves gods, so my friend and I are trying to be careful to distinguish it from Theros, and even from Amonkhet, which we've done by designing them broadly to be creatureish incarnations of larger Norse themes and thought patterns, almost a la elementals form Llorwyn, if more grandiose and humanoid. One God (Runwyrd) embodies the cyclical concept of time. Actually, let me just post him.
Runwyrd, Eternity's Form 3UU
Legendary Enchantment Creature - God
Saga — At the beginning of your upkeep, choose the next mode that hasn’t been chosen, starting with the first mode:
Shuffle your hand and graveyard into your library, then draw seven cards.
At the beginning of the next end step, untap each nonland permanent you control.
Exile Runwyrd, Eternity’s Form. Return it to the battlefield under it’s owner’s control at the beginning of your next upkeep.
2/7
Definitely a little pushed, definitely needs a little refining. I don't know if we want him to be an enchantment, as the Theros gods were, but on the other hand, he is for sure the most abstract of the five gods we designed.
With all this in mind, I think your second saga design best fits our template for the moment. I would however, love to see what you come up with it. To help get you on the general wavelength we are on, we were purposefully centering saga in G/U, although I'm intrigued by your idea for its wider application in the set as a flagship mechanic, as well as fancy ideas for templates. Brainstorming is always appreciated! Thank you for your time!
Runwyrd’s Insights 1U
Enchantment common
Saga - At the beginning of your upkeep, choose the next mode that hasn’t been chosen, starting with the first mode:
Scry 3.
Draw a card
Sacrifice ~.
We both really like the idea, and wanted to use it for a custom set we're making, but thought that a little advice wouldn't hurt. Thank you for your time, and I hope to hear your thoughts on saga!
Its true that Innistrad isn't a super artifact heavy plane, but that doesn't mean that as far as gadgets and contraptions it has none. In fact, Innistrad is one of the more technologically advanced planes, in comparison to Theros, Tarkir, Llorwyn... It is actually pretty middling in terms of its gadgets, a la Geistcatcher's Rig, Rage Thrower, Conjurer's Closet, not to mention stichers using crazy contraptions to reanimate zombies. While their artifacts are tempered with, or channel magic, I think there is a lot of potential in the monster hunting business for some master tinker to enter the Innistrad scene. After all, someone has to make ghostbusting gadgets...