Colors I like to play:
Any combination of the Esper Colors, though maybe not black-white since I already play BW Tokens. I like Blue especially.
Styles I like to play:
I dislike all-in aggro strategies and combo decks that don't interact with the opponent. I'm open to any form of aggro-control, midrange and control. My meta is creature heavy, so maybe something that's good vs these decks?
Budget:
I'm a little limited here, so 100 at max.
Level I want to play at:
Mostly FNM and the kitchen table (my playgroup is relatively competitive though).
Take out the Ajani for another land and you've got a fairly standard list, I don't know what you mean with "these lists"?
Mainly them only running 22 lands. I really can't fathom how the deck can even function at all on twenty-two lands let alone do well at a large event. In Lepore's videos, over the course of four matches, he lost three games to his mana. The first list that ran Ajani had 21 lands and the guy 5-0ed a Modern festival event.
Yeah, I agree. I play 2 Vault and 2 Windbrisk with 23 lands total and it's working fine for me. 21 is definitely not enough, but I consider testing 22 at least. This deck could really use a good BW manland, but I doubt they'll print anything like that in BFZ...
Played in an event at my Local Store last night, went 2-1. Short report:
Round 1 Loss 0-2 versus Mono White Enchantment Death n Taxes style deck
Game 1 he played Porphyry Nodes into Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety and finished me off with Luminarch Ascension, nothing I could do. Boarded +2 Duress +2 Sundering Growth +1 Nevermore, -4 Path to Exile -1 Dismember
Game 2 was close, I was able to discard a Prison and destroy another and could swing through a Sphere of Safety with a Hero to bring him down to 7 life, but then he topdecked Oblivion Ring and without my Hero, I couldn't finish him off before he played Gideon Jura. Basically almost every card the deck played kept me from attacking or worsened my boardstate. It's just a really bad matchup I think, hopefully it doesn't become more popular.
Round 2 Win 2-0 versus Scapeshift
Game 1 I could simply race him: T1 Windbrisk Heights with Elspeth, Knight Errant into T2 Intangible Virtue (got Remanded) into T3 Spectral Procession, T4 Windbrisk activation and Intangible Virtue. Him being short on lands helped, too. Boarded +2 Duress +3 Hallow +1 Nevermore, -4 Path to Exile - 1 Dismember - 2 Timely Reinforcements
Game 2 was more even, I had an Bitterblossom online and kept pressuring him with tokens while he removed them with Electrolyze and delayed me with Cryptic Command. His next move made me really happy: He played Anger of the Gods to get rid of my tokens and I was able to answer with Hallow (got this just the other day and it already paid off!), gaining me 12 life. Afterwards I proceeded to punch for victory with tokens and Spear of Heliod. He told me he was 1 land short to finish me of with his topdecked Scapeshift after the match.
Round 3 Win 2-1 versus Abzan (Wilt-Leaf Liege version)
All three games were really close and fun. I didn't face the Liege version before and made some mistakes game 1, more specifically playing a topdecked Thoughtseize with him holding only a land and Loxodon Smiter He finally was able to outclass my tokens with his own Lingering Souls tokens + Gavony Township and I lost the attrition game. Boarded +1 Timely Reinforcements +2 Relic of Progenitus +2 Zealous Persecution +1 Nevermore, -4 Inquisition of Kozilek -2 Thoughtseize
Games 2 and 3 were similar. Sorin, Solemn Visitor + Timely Reinforcements were allstars in game 2 and allowed me to outrace him even after I had lost most of my tokens by blocking into an Zealous Persecution at one point. Nevermore kept him from playing 2 Rhinos in game 3 as he already spent his Aprupt Decay on my anthem.
Thoughts and changes: I've been really content with my mainboard, maybe I go -1 removal for +1 discard as I face more combo and control lately. Also, I still cannot decide between a split of Bitterblossom and Raise the Alarm or the full BB route. Hallow in the sideboard proved to be effective versus red boardwipes, I hope to test it against burn, too. I like Nevermore in the board, too. It can create dead cards in my opponents hand opposed to Stain the Mind or Memoricide.
With 4 Virtue and 3 Honor, you play 7 anthems + 8 "half anthems" (Hero, Sorin, Sword and Zealous Persecution). I ran that many in the beginning, too, but found I'd rather like to draw 2 token producers and 1 anthem than the other way around. I would also rather keep a hand with no anthem than with no token action. Cut 1 or 2 Honor for more token producers/discard/spot removal? How did the Sword work out for you?
Oh, and I still don't get why people play Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth here. Can someone explain this to me?
List is fine otherwise I think, and thanks for the report!
I'm the only one who think abzan is too strong to face with wb tokens?
They got answer to everything.
Our Abzan matchup is actually not that bad. Liliana of the Veil isn't that useful against us, Scavenging Ooze won't get bigger, our tokens are bigger than their Lingering Souls tokens most of the time. Save removal for Siege Rhino. After boarding, bring in graveyard hate for Tarmogoyf and Tasigur, the Golden Fang. Zealous Persecution can be a key card, on both sides. Side out discard, especially versus the Liege version.
One card that I just found out about the other day was Hallow. I had 2 Forge-Tenders in my SB but I switched them out for that instead! Same casting cost, does the same thing by preventing a crucial spell or board wipes like Anger of the Gods, but gains life(! and a huge amount if it's to prevent Anger), and it's a surprise card whereas the tender is already on the field and they can play around it. I haven't tested it yet, but it seems like a great card.
Skullcrack can prevent it, but that's no different than them casting it in response to an Auriok Champion trigger or sacrificing the tender to prevent damage. So in my mind it's the exact same card, just a surprise!
Wow, I didn't know Hallow! Appears to be strictly better than Forge-Tender for us. I will definitely test this, thanks for the suggestion.
@Corwin: 3. Then the question is: Do you want to cast Spectral more consistently on T3 or do you want a higher chance of drawing into Vault? From my experience, 20 white sources is enough, so I would keep the 2nd Vault.
2. I was suggesting Forge-Tender because it's more versatile: It prevents a boardwipe AND helps against burn. If you're just worried about burnspells as removal and boardwipe, then Mark of Asylum makes sense of course.
1. I have no experience with Champion cause I don't play her, but in theory the protection is really relevant
2. I would keep Leyline. Maybe replace your Mark of Asylum with Burrenton Forge-Tender? Prevents boardwipes as well, blocks Goblin Guides and saves you from a Bolt to the face
3. You run 24 land, so I think you can keep Edge. Think of it as removal that can provide you with that 4th mana for Hero/Sorin
4. If you want more removal, I'd remove 1 Soulwarden. Also, run the playset of Virtue and only one Honor. Bitterblossom and Honor don't like each other. Maybe even replace the Honor with a single Spear of Heliod (credits to Mirage King!), it serves as removal as well.
Often you don't play any creatures until T3 (T1 discard, T2 anthem for example) so when you play Timely Reinforcements it hits both modes a lot of the time.
How does 22 land work out for you? Especially with 2 Sorin and 3 Hero, I would consider going up to 23. Also, you only have 9 untapped black sources T1, so I'd suggest replacing a couple plains and a Fetid Heath with more fetches.
Timely Reinforcements can be cut for the Champion if you feel she works better for you, and 1 Thoughtseize for the Sorin LoI maybe. But do not cut Spectral, it's the best card in our deck next to Lingering Souls!
Don't go below 23 lands. Your curve is quite high with 2 Hero, 2 Sorin, 2 Elspeth Tirel and your CMC 3 spot is also quite filled with 12 cards, so you need the lands.
Colors I like to play:
Any combination of the Esper Colors, though maybe not black-white since I already play BW Tokens. I like Blue especially.
Styles I like to play:
I dislike all-in aggro strategies and combo decks that don't interact with the opponent. I'm open to any form of aggro-control, midrange and control. My meta is creature heavy, so maybe something that's good vs these decks?
Budget:
I'm a little limited here, so 100 at max.
Level I want to play at:
Mostly FNM and the kitchen table (my playgroup is relatively competitive though).
Thanks for your help in advance!
Yeah, I agree. I play 2 Vault and 2 Windbrisk with 23 lands total and it's working fine for me. 21 is definitely not enough, but I consider testing 22 at least. This deck could really use a good BW manland, but I doubt they'll print anything like that in BFZ...
Round 1 Loss 0-2 versus Mono White Enchantment Death n Taxes style deck
Game 1 he played Porphyry Nodes into Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety and finished me off with Luminarch Ascension, nothing I could do. Boarded +2 Duress +2 Sundering Growth +1 Nevermore, -4 Path to Exile -1 Dismember
Game 2 was close, I was able to discard a Prison and destroy another and could swing through a Sphere of Safety with a Hero to bring him down to 7 life, but then he topdecked Oblivion Ring and without my Hero, I couldn't finish him off before he played Gideon Jura. Basically almost every card the deck played kept me from attacking or worsened my boardstate. It's just a really bad matchup I think, hopefully it doesn't become more popular.
Round 2 Win 2-0 versus Scapeshift
Game 1 I could simply race him: T1 Windbrisk Heights with Elspeth, Knight Errant into T2 Intangible Virtue (got Remanded) into T3 Spectral Procession, T4 Windbrisk activation and Intangible Virtue. Him being short on lands helped, too. Boarded +2 Duress +3 Hallow +1 Nevermore, -4 Path to Exile - 1 Dismember - 2 Timely Reinforcements
Game 2 was more even, I had an Bitterblossom online and kept pressuring him with tokens while he removed them with Electrolyze and delayed me with Cryptic Command. His next move made me really happy: He played Anger of the Gods to get rid of my tokens and I was able to answer with Hallow (got this just the other day and it already paid off!), gaining me 12 life. Afterwards I proceeded to punch for victory with tokens and Spear of Heliod. He told me he was 1 land short to finish me of with his topdecked Scapeshift after the match.
Round 3 Win 2-1 versus Abzan (Wilt-Leaf Liege version)
All three games were really close and fun. I didn't face the Liege version before and made some mistakes game 1, more specifically playing a topdecked Thoughtseize with him holding only a land and Loxodon Smiter
Games 2 and 3 were similar. Sorin, Solemn Visitor + Timely Reinforcements were allstars in game 2 and allowed me to outrace him even after I had lost most of my tokens by blocking into an Zealous Persecution at one point. Nevermore kept him from playing 2 Rhinos in game 3 as he already spent his Aprupt Decay on my anthem.
Thoughts and changes: I've been really content with my mainboard, maybe I go -1 removal for +1 discard as I face more combo and control lately. Also, I still cannot decide between a split of Bitterblossom and Raise the Alarm or the full BB route. Hallow in the sideboard proved to be effective versus red boardwipes, I hope to test it against burn, too. I like Nevermore in the board, too. It can create dead cards in my opponents hand opposed to Stain the Mind or Memoricide.
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Bitterblossom
2x Raise the Alarm
Creatures
2x Hero of Bladehold
Planeswalkers
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Anthems
4x Intangible Virtue
1x Spear of Heliod
Discard
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
4x Path to Exile
2x Go for the Throat
1x Dismember
Lands
4x Godless Shrine
4x Marsh Flats
2x Windswept Heath
2x Caves of Koilos
3x Isolated Chapel
2x Vault of the Archangel
2x Windbrisk Heights
3x Plains
1x Swamp
3x Hallow
2x Duress
1x Nevermore
2x Sundering Growth
2x Stony Silence
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Timely Reinforcements
2x Zealous Persecution
Oh, and I still don't get why people play Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth here. Can someone explain this to me?
List is fine otherwise I think, and thanks for the report!
Our Abzan matchup is actually not that bad. Liliana of the Veil isn't that useful against us, Scavenging Ooze won't get bigger, our tokens are bigger than their Lingering Souls tokens most of the time. Save removal for Siege Rhino. After boarding, bring in graveyard hate for Tarmogoyf and Tasigur, the Golden Fang. Zealous Persecution can be a key card, on both sides. Side out discard, especially versus the Liege version.
Wow, I didn't know Hallow! Appears to be strictly better than Forge-Tender for us. I will definitely test this, thanks for the suggestion.
@Corwin: 3. Then the question is: Do you want to cast Spectral more consistently on T3 or do you want a higher chance of drawing into Vault? From my experience, 20 white sources is enough, so I would keep the 2nd Vault.
2. I was suggesting Forge-Tender because it's more versatile: It prevents a boardwipe AND helps against burn. If you're just worried about burnspells as removal and boardwipe, then Mark of Asylum makes sense of course.
and no problem, always glad to help
2. I would keep Leyline. Maybe replace your Mark of Asylum with Burrenton Forge-Tender? Prevents boardwipes as well, blocks Goblin Guides and saves you from a Bolt to the face
3. You run 24 land, so I think you can keep Edge. Think of it as removal that can provide you with that 4th mana for Hero/Sorin
4. If you want more removal, I'd remove 1 Soulwarden. Also, run the playset of Virtue and only one Honor. Bitterblossom and Honor don't like each other. Maybe even replace the Honor with a single Spear of Heliod (credits to Mirage King!), it serves as removal as well.