An upgrade from Tusker wouldn't hurt - any 3/3 with a keyword or some kind of incidental hate like on Militant. Alternately a Geist-like card to give us even more resilience.
Better SB options - would love some kind of silver bullet answer to the truly horrible matchups like Affinity/Tron/Amulet.
A 1-drop would have to be very, very good to compete with the ones available. Nettle Sentinel is quite powerful and not close to seeing play imo.
Just posted it one page back - I honestly think I may have lost more games than I've won because of Canopy lately. A LOT of aggresive decks out there. Other than that, the presence of 3 Scooze is just a must atm. So many decks using and abusing the GY these days that leaving home w/o Scooze is a bad idea.
Dungrove is very, very good and definetly a contender. Both Dungrove and Leatherback are in some respects plan B of the deck. If plan A (get them dead by turn 4) doesn't work out, we attempt to grind our opponents out (I actually managed to grind down the G/W Wescoe list over 2 games yesterday). Dungrove does that eminently, but he is very, very slow. He also doesn't really get along with Treetop and Aspect, both of which seem more important atm than Dungrove. That being said, landing a Dungrove or a Thrun against some decks is just GG. I enjoyed both back when Jeskai Burn/Flash was a tier 1 deck, since they just curled up and died, but Grixis Control doesn't seem to warrant too many changes to the maindeck.
I tried Groundbreaker extensively - it's bad... Problem comes from being unable to support it or punch it through blockers, since we run so few lands. I think CoCo would be better in that spot if you absolutely don't want the Leatherback...
Played another League yesterday to a 3-2 finish. Had an unfortunate run-in with both Affinity and Elves.
And another 4-1 League - beating Bloom, Jund, SuiZoo and 4C Company, losing to another Bloom who just went full retard on me both games - they were effectively non-games.
The deck is real (and I haven't met Affinity in the last 4 Leagues!)
Some of you requested a matchup analysis, and since I last posted one, the meta has changed a lot.
Based on the following list (my list), I will try to break each of the matchups down rating them from +3 (virtual bye) to -3 (unwinnable). Each category is fairly wide, especially the +0. My thought process with the +0 category was to capture the decks in which the die-roll or a single card can make a big difference, and where neither deck has an inherent advantage. The +/- 1 category means inherently advantaged/disadvantaged etc. The highlighted decks represent the major players in the Modern metagame.
Jund +0: We are fast, efficient and resilient - Jund dislikes that. Their powerlevel is very high, so don't fret when they go T1 discard, T2 Goyf, T3 Liliana and you just lose.
Affinity -2: Very tough matchup. They take to the air and deal damage in huge chunks. Affinity keeps us from being truly competitive. If Affinity is big in you meta, consider adding Creeping Corrosion to the board.
U/R Twin +1: My favourite matchup. Resilient creatures coupled with light disruption has always been a problem for Twin. Look for hands with 1 drop, 2 drop and business. Avoid clunky hands with lategame potential.
Amulet Bloom -1: Hard for us to interact, pretty much have to race and hope they can't pull off two early kills.
Naya Burn +1: No damage from manabase and resilient creatures gives Burn a lot of headaches.
R/G Tron -1: This used to be a good matchup, but the addition of Ugin and lately Ulamog has made this matchup worse.
Abzan +0: Not as good as Jund due to Souls and PtE, but feels very 50/50. Like Jund, their best hands are very, very hard to beat.
Grixis/Tarmo Twin +1: The addition of black or green gives them access to fatties, which can slow us down a bit. Other than that, it is just a more fancy Twin deck.
Merfolk +0: Merfolk takes a lot of practice, as we need to leverage our early game advantage. We CANNOT win a drawn out game against the Folk. This matchup might have gotten worse with Harbinger - I haven't played it in a while.
Naya Company +0: Again we have an early advantage, but their fatties will eventually outclass our creatures - use pump as pseudo-removal.
Scapeshift +1: Not as good a matchup as Twin but still positive. Look for hands with a good curve as we have to leverage our early game advantage.
Infect -1: One of the few matchups, along with Affinity, where we are not the beatdown. They are consistently a turn faster than us, which means we need early interaction. Take any block they offer and squeeze in damage when you can.
Living End +0: Very dependent on whether or not we draw Scooze and Geist. Try to keep some creatures in hand while applying enough pressure to force them to go off. Tricky matchup which feels extremely swingy.
Abzan Company -1: They usually play the full suite of Finks which is quite annoying. On top of that they have the combo potential, which Vines for once does not interact with.
Grixis Control +1: They're blue, they're slow, and they have way too many conditional counterspells.
Bogles -2: Another non-interactive matchup which we can't race if they find Lifelink (they always do!). Try to race, cross your fingers.
Grixis Delver +1: Our creatures outclass their creatures on almost every level. After board it gets even better.
Small Zoo +0: This used to be a positive matchup, but the addition of Atarka's Command and the low-to-the-ground curve means they actually develop the board faster than us. Make smart blocks and be wary of Atarka's. You may be forced to play defensive for the first couple of turns.
Ad Nauseam -1: A pure damage race, keep hands that kill turn 4 and hope they can't chain Grace's etc. Bring in artifact/enchantment removal instead of Dismember/Scooze.
Storm +1: Scooze and Militant are haymakers. Look for fast hands with either. The only true combo matchup that is actually in our favour.
Elves -2: They can create boardstates that are impossible to break as early as turn 3, which we can't compete with.
Hatebears/D&T +0: Lots of tricks and shenanigans but not a lot of raw power. Some lists play Voice and Finks which is quite annoying. Be wary of Mirran Crusader post-board.
B/W Tokens +2: Keep hammering at them, and they will eventually crack. Look for hands with Rancor in them.
Goryo's Vengeance -1: Scooze does wonders against the deck, the rest of our cards: not so much... Race them, they are surprisingly inconsistent.
U/W Control/Gifts Control +0: The only blue-based decks which we do not have a positive matchup against. Wall of Omens is very, very annoying to have to punch through, and potential Elesh Norns are backbreaking. Their lategame is virtually unbeatable.
Soul Sisters -3: Unwinnable, I have literally never won a match against the Sisters. Thankfully the deck is really bad against everything else
8-Rack +1: Find a Geist or a Scooze and ride it to victory. Only problem card is Bridge, side in what you have of artifact/enchantment removal.
-3: Soul Sisters
-2: Affinity, Elves and Bogles
-1: Goryo's Vengeance, Ad Nauseam, Abzan Company, R/G Tron, Amulet Bloom and Infect
+0: U/W Control, Hatebears, Small Zoo, Living End, Naya Company, Merfolk, Abzan and Jund
4-1'ed a league yesterday beating Tron, Amulet, Grixis Delver and U/R Twin and losing to Tron on a double mulligan to 5 Deck feels as strong as ever, gonna see if I have the time to upload some replays with commentary.
Recap:
R1 - Melira Combo: 2-0. G1 he is off to a fast start threatening an early combo kill, but PtE and later on Flickerwisp takes care of business. G2 plays out pretty much the same, I have the crucial PtE and Flicker into Resto that takes over the air. Both games Blade Splicer holds the fort.
R2 - Burn: 0-2. G1 he has all the magic cards - all the time. My G1 hand is pretty good, but he forces a race with an early Eidolon. I make a massive mistake, forgetting that Hierarch taps for U, which influences my entire block sequence in the crucial turn. My opponent points it out, then shows me a hand full of gas, so could'nt have won anyway - still feels bad. G2 I keep a hand with Resto and triple PtE on a mull to 6. He plays exactly one creature and proceeds to just burn me out.
R3 - Affinity: 2-0. G1 I have all the answers, Qasali, Skite, Splicer and double Hierarch. Its almost gross. G2 he mulls to 5 and keeps a very poor hand. I drop a few beaters and have time to eat lunch before next round.
R4 - 4C Geist: 2-1. G1 I get out ahead and stay ahead - Flickerwisp and Resto Angel take over. G2 he is off to a very aggresive start, and despite dropping vial on Turn 1 and Mark of Asylum on Turn 2, I still lose the race. G3 I again have the Mark of Asylum AND he has mana issues. Two GQ and a Resto Angel later and I'm actually in contention.
R5 - Affinity: 0-2. G1 he just vomits on the table and I die in the air turn 4 to double Plating without ever having a chance of stabilizing. G2 I keep a non-Stony hand that is pretty strong nonetheless. He opens on Thoughtseize and nothing else, and I make an internal fistpump. This was premature as he just vomits on the table turn 2 I can't stabilize and he once again beats me in the air with double Plating.
Out of contention, playing for top 16.
R6 - Infect: 2-1. G1 I am pretty gross with Skite, Path and several fliers. G2 he manages to squeeze through for exactly 10 on the back of triple Hierarch. G3 is the talk of the town at the entire tournament. I mull to 6 seeing GQ, GQ, Thalia, Hierarch, and double PtE... Opponent kept 7 after a full minute in the tank. I keep, hoping to scry my way out of it. Scry Gavony to the bottom - play GQ. He plays fetch and I draw an Arbiter. At this point its clear that I'm Quartering myself, but for what source? I go through every possible thought process and decide to go with the Arbiter but almost throw away the game when I reach for Thalia. She actually touches the table, before I realize my mistake and ask my opponent if I can retrace, and he says sure - he was a nice guy and we kept up the friendly banter across all three games. Long story short - My double PtE is too much, since he is stuck on only 1 land and even goes to endstep discard on the next turn. When he finally breaks out of it, I have lethal in the air after scooping a fetchland on Mindcensor.
Overall very satisfied with my build and with the deck in general - came extremely close to cutting Gaddock for a Finks, which I probably should have given my pairings, but the room was also full of Tron, so had my pairings been different, he could have been an all-star. The Grafdigger's Cage was a last-minute call when I saw the amount of CoCo fueled decks, plus I knew that two of my travelmates were on Dredge.
As for the discussions concerning mono-W vs W/G. W/G overall has a higher powerlevel and is able to incorporate some fairly crucial MD and SB cards. That being said, mono-W is strictly better against combo (not Twin), big-mana decks and Burn, and overall worse against the fair decks. W/G is less polarized in its matchups and still retains a very healthy combo matchup. Overall I like the versatility of the G splash, but in a field full of Combo I would take mono-W any day.
You are really low on flicker targets - saving a creature from removal is fine, but having ficker targets allows you to go aggresive. Also 3x Qasali is overkill (depending on meta). Add a Finks or a Gaddock instead - both are pretty good, though not game-breaking. There is no reason (outside of budget concerns) not to play the third Horizon Canopy.
Sometimes you just get outdrawn - always keep in mind that Jund has a crazy power-level. Every single card is good on its own, making it the ultimate goodstuff deck. The key to winning is either going wide thus forcing them to go for creature removal pre-damage so u can either pump a different creature or Vines-pump the target. Agaist Jund I usually bring in 2x Relic on the draw - sometimes nothing on the play.
@Valmir256 I'm fooling around with a singleton Pendelhaven to see if a situation actually comes up, where I might want it Other than that, no changes. It is perhaps time to shelve the Deglamer effects for more hardhitting hosers like B2N and a singleton Creeping Corrosion - don't sure tbh.
Better SB options - would love some kind of silver bullet answer to the truly horrible matchups like Affinity/Tron/Amulet.
A 1-drop would have to be very, very good to compete with the ones available. Nettle Sentinel is quite powerful and not close to seeing play imo.
Dungrove is very, very good and definetly a contender. Both Dungrove and Leatherback are in some respects plan B of the deck. If plan A (get them dead by turn 4) doesn't work out, we attempt to grind our opponents out (I actually managed to grind down the G/W Wescoe list over 2 games yesterday). Dungrove does that eminently, but he is very, very slow. He also doesn't really get along with Treetop and Aspect, both of which seem more important atm than Dungrove. That being said, landing a Dungrove or a Thrun against some decks is just GG. I enjoyed both back when Jeskai Burn/Flash was a tier 1 deck, since they just curled up and died, but Grixis Control doesn't seem to warrant too many changes to the maindeck.
@Chalupacabra - We are all Hans
Played another League yesterday to a 3-2 finish. Had an unfortunate run-in with both Affinity and Elves.
The deck is real (and I haven't met Affinity in the last 4 Leagues!)
Based on the following list (my list), I will try to break each of the matchups down rating them from +3 (virtual bye) to -3 (unwinnable). Each category is fairly wide, especially the +0. My thought process with the +0 category was to capture the decks in which the die-roll or a single card can make a big difference, and where neither deck has an inherent advantage. The +/- 1 category means inherently advantaged/disadvantaged etc. The highlighted decks represent the major players in the Modern metagame.
17 Forest
3 Treetop Village
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Leatherback Baloth
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kalonian Tusker
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
3 Aspect of Hydra
3 Oxidize
3 Feed the Clan
2 Choke
2 Deglamer
2 Gut Shot
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Back to Nature
Jund +0: We are fast, efficient and resilient - Jund dislikes that. Their powerlevel is very high, so don't fret when they go T1 discard, T2 Goyf, T3 Liliana and you just lose.
Affinity -2: Very tough matchup. They take to the air and deal damage in huge chunks. Affinity keeps us from being truly competitive. If Affinity is big in you meta, consider adding Creeping Corrosion to the board.
U/R Twin +1: My favourite matchup. Resilient creatures coupled with light disruption has always been a problem for Twin. Look for hands with 1 drop, 2 drop and business. Avoid clunky hands with lategame potential.
Amulet Bloom -1: Hard for us to interact, pretty much have to race and hope they can't pull off two early kills.
Naya Burn +1: No damage from manabase and resilient creatures gives Burn a lot of headaches.
R/G Tron -1: This used to be a good matchup, but the addition of Ugin and lately Ulamog has made this matchup worse.
Abzan +0: Not as good as Jund due to Souls and PtE, but feels very 50/50. Like Jund, their best hands are very, very hard to beat.
Grixis/Tarmo Twin +1: The addition of black or green gives them access to fatties, which can slow us down a bit. Other than that, it is just a more fancy Twin deck.
Merfolk +0: Merfolk takes a lot of practice, as we need to leverage our early game advantage. We CANNOT win a drawn out game against the Folk. This matchup might have gotten worse with Harbinger - I haven't played it in a while.
Naya Company +0: Again we have an early advantage, but their fatties will eventually outclass our creatures - use pump as pseudo-removal.
Scapeshift +1: Not as good a matchup as Twin but still positive. Look for hands with a good curve as we have to leverage our early game advantage.
Infect -1: One of the few matchups, along with Affinity, where we are not the beatdown. They are consistently a turn faster than us, which means we need early interaction. Take any block they offer and squeeze in damage when you can.
Living End +0: Very dependent on whether or not we draw Scooze and Geist. Try to keep some creatures in hand while applying enough pressure to force them to go off. Tricky matchup which feels extremely swingy.
Abzan Company -1: They usually play the full suite of Finks which is quite annoying. On top of that they have the combo potential, which Vines for once does not interact with.
Grixis Control +1: They're blue, they're slow, and they have way too many conditional counterspells.
Bogles -2: Another non-interactive matchup which we can't race if they find Lifelink (they always do!). Try to race, cross your fingers.
Grixis Delver +1: Our creatures outclass their creatures on almost every level. After board it gets even better.
Small Zoo +0: This used to be a positive matchup, but the addition of Atarka's Command and the low-to-the-ground curve means they actually develop the board faster than us. Make smart blocks and be wary of Atarka's. You may be forced to play defensive for the first couple of turns.
Ad Nauseam -1: A pure damage race, keep hands that kill turn 4 and hope they can't chain Grace's etc. Bring in artifact/enchantment removal instead of Dismember/Scooze.
Storm +1: Scooze and Militant are haymakers. Look for fast hands with either. The only true combo matchup that is actually in our favour.
Elves -2: They can create boardstates that are impossible to break as early as turn 3, which we can't compete with.
Hatebears/D&T +0: Lots of tricks and shenanigans but not a lot of raw power. Some lists play Voice and Finks which is quite annoying. Be wary of Mirran Crusader post-board.
B/W Tokens +2: Keep hammering at them, and they will eventually crack. Look for hands with Rancor in them.
Goryo's Vengeance -1: Scooze does wonders against the deck, the rest of our cards: not so much... Race them, they are surprisingly inconsistent.
U/W Control/Gifts Control +0: The only blue-based decks which we do not have a positive matchup against. Wall of Omens is very, very annoying to have to punch through, and potential Elesh Norns are backbreaking. Their lategame is virtually unbeatable.
Soul Sisters -3: Unwinnable, I have literally never won a match against the Sisters. Thankfully the deck is really bad against everything else
8-Rack +1: Find a Geist or a Scooze and ride it to victory. Only problem card is Bridge, side in what you have of artifact/enchantment removal.
-3: Soul Sisters
-2: Affinity, Elves and Bogles
-1: Goryo's Vengeance, Ad Nauseam, Abzan Company, R/G Tron, Amulet Bloom and Infect
+0: U/W Control, Hatebears, Small Zoo, Living End, Naya Company, Merfolk, Abzan and Jund
+1: 8-Rack, Storm, Grixis Delver, Grixis Control, Scapeshift, Grixis/Tarmo Twin, Burn, U/R Twin
+2: B/W Tokens
4-1'ed a league yesterday beating Tron, Amulet, Grixis Delver and U/R Twin and losing to Tron on a double mulligan to 5
My list was fairly standard W/G Taxes:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Gavony Township
1 Forest
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Restoration Angel
2 Spellskite
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Choke
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Sunlance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mark of Asylum
Recap:
R1 - Melira Combo: 2-0. G1 he is off to a fast start threatening an early combo kill, but PtE and later on Flickerwisp takes care of business. G2 plays out pretty much the same, I have the crucial PtE and Flicker into Resto that takes over the air. Both games Blade Splicer holds the fort.
R2 - Burn: 0-2. G1 he has all the magic cards - all the time. My G1 hand is pretty good, but he forces a race with an early Eidolon. I make a massive mistake, forgetting that Hierarch taps for U, which influences my entire block sequence in the crucial turn. My opponent points it out, then shows me a hand full of gas, so could'nt have won anyway - still feels bad. G2 I keep a hand with Resto and triple PtE on a mull to 6. He plays exactly one creature and proceeds to just burn me out.
R3 - Affinity: 2-0. G1 I have all the answers, Qasali, Skite, Splicer and double Hierarch. Its almost gross. G2 he mulls to 5 and keeps a very poor hand. I drop a few beaters and have time to eat lunch before next round.
R4 - 4C Geist: 2-1. G1 I get out ahead and stay ahead - Flickerwisp and Resto Angel take over. G2 he is off to a very aggresive start, and despite dropping vial on Turn 1 and Mark of Asylum on Turn 2, I still lose the race. G3 I again have the Mark of Asylum AND he has mana issues. Two GQ and a Resto Angel later and I'm actually in contention.
R5 - Affinity: 0-2. G1 he just vomits on the table and I die in the air turn 4 to double Plating without ever having a chance of stabilizing. G2 I keep a non-Stony hand that is pretty strong nonetheless. He opens on Thoughtseize and nothing else, and I make an internal fistpump. This was premature as he just vomits on the table turn 2
Out of contention, playing for top 16.
R6 - Infect: 2-1. G1 I am pretty gross with Skite, Path and several fliers. G2 he manages to squeeze through for exactly 10 on the back of triple Hierarch. G3 is the talk of the town at the entire tournament. I mull to 6 seeing GQ, GQ, Thalia, Hierarch, and double PtE... Opponent kept 7 after a full minute in the tank. I keep, hoping to scry my way out of it. Scry Gavony to the bottom - play GQ. He plays fetch and I draw an Arbiter. At this point its clear that I'm Quartering myself, but for what source? I go through every possible thought process and decide to go with the Arbiter but almost throw away the game when I reach for Thalia. She actually touches the table, before I realize my mistake and ask my opponent if I can retrace, and he says sure - he was a nice guy and we kept up the friendly banter across all three games. Long story short - My double PtE is too much, since he is stuck on only 1 land and even goes to endstep discard on the next turn. When he finally breaks out of it, I have lethal in the air after scooping a fetchland on Mindcensor.
Overall very satisfied with my build and with the deck in general - came extremely close to cutting Gaddock for a Finks, which I probably should have given my pairings, but the room was also full of Tron, so had my pairings been different, he could have been an all-star. The Grafdigger's Cage was a last-minute call when I saw the amount of CoCo fueled decks, plus I knew that two of my travelmates were on Dredge.
As for the discussions concerning mono-W vs W/G. W/G overall has a higher powerlevel and is able to incorporate some fairly crucial MD and SB cards. That being said, mono-W is strictly better against combo (not Twin), big-mana decks and Burn, and overall worse against the fair decks. W/G is less polarized in its matchups and still retains a very healthy combo matchup. Overall I like the versatility of the G splash, but in a field full of Combo I would take mono-W any day.
/ Hans
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=94478
@Valmir256 I'm fooling around with a singleton Pendelhaven to see if a situation actually comes up, where I might want it