Have you considered running Primal Surge and Thousand-Year Elixir in BG Elves. Throw a couple Eternal Witnesses in, and there's no reason to run all that expensive search.
I used to run it in an elves shell years ago, but switched it up. The way the deck has evolved since then has been for the better, not just with consistency, but sealing up the game on turn 4 or 5. Having an archdruid get blown off the board on turn 2/3 usually left me up crap creek without a paddle and threw a serious wrench in my ramp plan. I haven't been keeping up with elves over the past couple years, though.
If you have access to 7+ mana on turn three, no search is expensive. Especially when that search card comes with a flying 6/6 body. In this deck, your turn three is your search turn. You find the appropriate win-con against whatever deck you're playing(Primal Surge, Primeval Titan, chaining together Rune-Scarred Demon, etc.) if you don't have a win-con already in your hand(which you usually do).
Everyone will tell you Rabble is gas. He's a 4-turn clock that gets under Bridge. Sometimes t1 Rabble is better than a lock piece. He's a core component.
Very true. I saw that Ray also mentioned them as key components.
Well, you talked me into it.
They're up at bat.
What's with the memnite and ornithopter? Are they just speed bumps so your planeswalkers can ultimate quicker?
I did have two Infernal Plunge in my 60 as well, but they didn't pull as much weight as i was hoping they would. So, more often than not, thopters and memnites were speed bumps that work well considering the lack of early game trample and flying. Free blockers really helped me protect my walkers an hit ultimates frequently, but they're seriously lacking when it comes to closing the game. That's why i'd prefer creatures or cards that i can block with as well as shell out some damage. I might just switch up a couple cards for two Pia & what'sHisFace to use the 0-drops as blockers and potential removal/2 damage.
Thanks Ray, I cant wait to finish up these last few months grinding the Cockatrice circuit and finally hit MTGO in early 2019. MODO, consider yourself on notice!
Ernest, the 4 cards you're looking for are called Goblin Rabblemaster.. he's a decent inclusion
I put some thought into rabblemaster and decided i don't like that all goblins have to attack. Not saving blockers could throw me in a sticky situation, but it might not. I haven't tested it yet, so my thoughts on him might be moot. What's your experience with him?
I've noticed that big first and second turn plays lead to many more wins than big second and third turn plays when it comes to this type of deck. I'm sure 8 rituals and 4 SSG are overkill, but i need that speed too, man! First turn Chandra/Koth into second turn koth/Chandra is backbreaking for a lot of decks, along with first turn Blood Moon/Chalice(1) into second turn Chalice(1)/Blood Moon. Or any combination of the two scenarios.
I haven't posted my pile since i added Chalice to the main, so this is what i'm playing with now:
I've been thinking of cutting thopters and memnites for 2 more land and 4 cards that actually do something other than be chumps and block for my walkers, now that i don't have need for them. Any suggestions for the 4 open slots?
I think I read that Raystack has a bridgeless version? Any chance Ray or someone could post it for me? I'm working on a brew which is a mix of Pyro Prison and Skred Dragons. Thanks In advance!
That was me and I haven't put it together yet. I'm also working on some super secret tech that was me tioned at the very beginning of this forum......rift bolt. Stay tuned....
I run bridgeless as well. I added chalice to the main since the last time i posted an it's won me a decent amount of games. It makes me wonder why i never had it mained in the first place. How many matchups did you find yourself moving bridge to the board? From what i've read from posts in here, it seems like it gets boarded out frequently.
Can you suspend rift bolt with a chalice on 1 since suspend is an ability?
he's got the best creature to through the breach in Griselbrand.
i agree with needing ramp, though. if you are able to stick a piper on turn two, turn three you can start cranking out your big fatties while slamming a Quicksilver Amulet. two cards spitting out creatures that stick for 1-mana a pop is a fun thing.
now, if you add in some mana ramp, you won't need as much life stabilization as your list has right now. this means you can make room for big fatties that take over the game, such as Primeval Titan. this guy will make it so that by turn 5 you should be able to hard cast big fatties as well as spit them out for one mana via piper and/or amulet.
also, might i suggest Seedborn Muse for your decklist. she will allow you to double up on using piper or amulet and also open up mana for instant speed reaction or search.
My brother and i came up with a list of the best creatures to use with Varolz as soon as he came out because we thought he had potential as a card to build a deck around. the only unfortunate thing about him is that he's the only creature with the ability to give other creatures scavenge...
since Green Sun's Zenith is still banned, unfortunately, we are left with limited choices to search out Varolz. initially, we thought to use Chord of Calling, but by the time we Chord a Varolz, it'd already be turn 4 or 5. we'd already be dead against a competitive deck. But then, i remembered Fauna Shaman. She gets the creatures we want to scavenge to the graveyard While searching for the creature we needed at the time or for next turn.
Spark Elemental and Vexing Devil are awesome additions as well. they cost one mana and have the potential to deal damage on turn 1. on top of these things, they also scavenge quite well. Spark will give 3 +1/+1 counters and Devil will give 4 +1/+1 counters. Since we couldn't find another decent card like Llanowar Mentor to use, i decided to go with some cheap scavengable creatures with a lot of bang for their 1-mana casting cost. i also had Silhanna Ledgewalker in here and a rather unblockable creature, but i took her out due to being a 2-drop. i've been thinking of testing Slippery Bogle as a body to keep dumping scavenge counters onto. Thrunn, The Last Troll might not be a bad idea, either.
screw discard. everybody uses it. it's in every deck. watch, thoughtseize is going to be the next card banned in modern because it's making it's way into every deck it can. i'm going to add white into my manabase just for Leyline of Sanctity. oh, and so i can also laugh at everybody running discard. but i digress. only 8 control cards is less than what i usually like to run, but it should be enough.
i hope some of this helps you guys out. i haven't taken the deck to an FNM or anything, but it's a lot of fun to play with in multiplayer games at my or a friends house or just a casual match of 1v1. it's not quite where i want it to be on a competitive level, but if it gets there, i've got to try it out at a tournament to see how it does.
have you thought about using Arbor Elf instead of Heirarch and swapping out finks for Utopia Sprawl? Edit: i didn't see you had Utopia Sprawl in your list until after i posted. isn't there another enchantment that's practically the same, though?
that would be another easy way to manipulate nice amounts of mana out of Magus of the Vineyard. if only there was a way to keep untapping it so you could go infinite on turn two or three...
also, i suggest using a playset of Primeval titan. if you get him to stick on turn three, you can win by pulling an Inkmoth Nexus and a Kessig Wolf Run and attacking for 10+ infect on the next turn as a backup wincon.
here are some reasons as to why i chose the cards i did for my main 60. there aren't many flex slots at all in the main pile of this deck, so it doesn't make for much wiggle room.
Creature choices:
Arbor Elf- this guy is a must have in every surge deck. he's what helps enable a 2nd turn Heartbeat into third turn RSDemon or Prime Time. when mixed with Utopia Sprawl, Arbor Elf really has the chance to shine and makes everything so easy to cast. plus, people like to fry him before you even get a chance to drop a Lotus Cobra, which makes the elf a nice lightning rod for ramp just as effective as himself. importance: 4/4
Lotus Cobra-a great drop for second turn if you haven't hit a heartbeat, or if you just don't want to play heartbeat quite yet. Lotus Cobra can help produce insane amounts of mana in the early-mid game, and that's just what we need since we're trying to cast a Primal Surge on turn three or four. netting 2 mana just from dropping and popping a fetchland is awesome in a ramp deck. i even pull fetchlands when i drop my Prime Time once i know i'm going the beatdown route because i can pop them in the middle of next combat, milk mana out of my snake, and use it to pump up a creature with kessig. since Prime Time pulls more mana out of cobra in combat as well, you can have 4 mana from one cobra in your pool, just in a combat step...
it's a great setup for an amazing finish and i feel this card is more than necessary in my strategy. importance: 4/4
Spellskite- Owns bogles and messes up burn, which is a plus. but to be honest, Skite is really in this deck for protection. it's a true lightning rod since it doesn't die to bolt and it protects my elf, cobra, and prime time from any sort of targeted removal. one of the only early game layers of protection, i feel more than one copy is necessary. but, it may not work for everybody. so, i've come to the conclusion that this could be a flex spot since skite could be moved to the sideboard. importance: 1/4
Dosan the Falling Leaf- you have to remember, with 4 heartbeat on the board, your opponents will have more mana than you think they do. this makes blowing through Akroma's Memorial, Privileged Position, and Spellskite easier than you'd think. it's still not easy to do, but could be done with the right cards. Dosan is there to back them up as well as offer anti-counter protection. essentially, he helps you win on the turn that you surge more than any other card. putting your opponents reactive plays on hold until their next turn is crucial, especially when they aren't going to have a next turn. this makes for no disruption, which makes for an uncontested win. it's importance is much higher than the fact that it only has one slot out of 75 to take up. importance: 3/4
Laboratory Maniac- the win condition. i only need one, since i have layers of protection to ensure it sticks around while i'm surging through my deck. Maniac and Mind Stone win me the game. 3 slots for a free win? that's less than twin took... i'll take it! importance: 4/4
Primeval Titan- the alternate win. one of my favorite cards. the power of this guy is insane. he ramps when he enters the battlefield, he ramps when he attacks. he helps get to 10 mana, but he also wins the game by himself with that much mana and 2 turns instead of just one. plus, who doesn't like swinging with a 16/6 Prime Time on turn 4? importance: 4/4
Rune-Scarred Demon- our Surge search comes with a huge body that flies. i love it. the only problem i've had with Surge search is trying to figure out what i should use as RSD 5-6. importance: 4/4
Spell Choices:
Primal Surge- The Namesake. The WinCon. Enough said. importance: 4/4
Utopia Sprawl- Another piece of the early-game ramp puzzle. with Arbor Elf and Garruk, you can net a lot of mana from this 1-drop. importance:4/4
Mind Stone- some early game ramp to help out when it's in your opening hand that also doubles as a wincon after you've surged. if you need more cards early on, you could pop a mind stone and not have to worry since there are multiple copies. these slots could also be considered as a flex slot, though i would never take the stones out of my main 60. importance: 2/4
Heartbeat of Spring- A massive part of the ramp plan. do you need it? not really, to be honest. but i have yet to find a better permanent that ramps as well as Heartbeat does. plus, it enables lots and lots of mana. which is exactly what we're looking for. now, it doesn't have to be Heartbeat. you could also use Dictate of Karametra. i haven't tested the dictate out yet, but i've been considering it lately. either way, you need a playset of one of the two. or a mixture of the two. whichever you choose is up to you. importance: 4/4
Garruk Wildspeaker- drop him on turn 2, followed by a Heartbeat? yupp. Garruk is some serious ramp and enables off the wall plays that nobody could see coming. Second turn Garruk into Cobra, mind stone, another utopia sprawl and an arbor elf. he could make a 3/3 if you don't have anything to ramp into. and Garruk is also another wincon, making your elves and cobras deadly with his overrun ult. too good to cut, in my opinion. importance: 4/4
Liliana Vess- A RSD 5 test. Four search cards for Surge aren't enough, but i haven't had a problem with 5 search cards. Liliana is much more than a search card. she can help take a small hand away and reduce threat to our permanents as well as take over with her ult if you ever have to really grind it out. i like the results that i've seen so far, more so than Sidisi. regardless, you need a 5th search card. what you choose is up to you. importance: 2/4
Privileged Position- protection for my permanents. very, very important if you cut Dosan for any reason(which i advise against). importance: 2/4
Akroma's Memorial- Give Jund the finger. well, give everything the finger other than Path to Exile and fringe control like Beast Within. another layer of protection for creatures. plus, another beatdown wincon for your creatures. importance: 2/4
Kessig Wolf Run- hands down, a must-need when you're running Primeval Titan. i only use one due to chances of only getting colorless mana in your opening hand. since i run 2 Boseiju, who Shelter's All, i can only run 1 Kessig. but if you're confident in your list, or aren't afraid of counters, a 2-1 kessig/boseiju list seems like it'd be more aggressive. i just like the extra defense against one of the most relevant forms of control i play against. importance: 3/4
Fetchlands:- it's worth noting how much influence a fetchland has in the ramp system in this deck. with Lotus Cobra and Primeval Titan at our beck and call, we can manipulate a fetchland to its maximum potential. i'd love to increase my fetchland total from 7 to 10, but i can't seem to squeeze in those extra lands. trying to squeeze in a Mikororo, Center of The Sea is hard enough, considering we have to cover 4 different colors in this deck(my original version, at least).
Because of this, I would recommend taking out Dosan the Falling Leaf unless you need him in there as counter protection. But the biggest problem with this deck seems to be getting burned out or dying before we can cast the card we need to. So maybe replace with another ramp card.
you know, Mikokoro wouldn't be a bad addition at all. some extra draw early game along with a strong way to suck up some leftover mana on the end of an opponents turn. with Mind Stone i have all the wincon i need for the maniac, but i do agree that some extra draw would be nice.
also, Dosan isn't in there for just counter protection. he's there to stop any crazy sort of shenanigans that could blast through my creature protection and bolt my maniac. he's basically the layer that makes getting to my kill impossible and i like having that security net. there's no need to add more ramp, as well. if anything, i'd say more wincons are in order. but, with Primeval Titan in our corner, pulling out Kessig makes any creature a wincon. you could keep turning arbor elf and lotus cobra into 10/1 tramplers and not even give two farts.
the combo isn't the only way to win with my deck and i love that about it. the opening hand is what tells you if you're going to combo, or going to beat face.
On the same note, Rune-Scarred Demon has been an abject failure in my playtesting, mostly just because he costs 7 mana and the flying body is negated by the fact that we win the next turn, Sidisi, Undead Vizier has performed much better as it is much more possible to cast both her and Primal Surge on the same turn, and she deters attackers quite well. Also keep in mind that she can sacrifice herself to be a 3BB demonic tutor, which isn't that bad.
i've never once had RSD be, "and abject failure." he's regularly cast on turn three when in my opening hand(the same turn Sidisi can be cast), his massive flying body enables kessig to make him very deadly, and it doesn't matter if he dies when you play him. you netted a card from him entering the battlefield, and you empty a spot removal card from their hand if they have one. he's also clutch against Infect due to flying, which really helps me in that matchup.
But besides that, I believe that this deck has a lot of competitive potential and would be curious if anyone would want a primer on this?
PS: Just so everyone knows if they remove your win con from the deck, put permanents into play until there are 10 cards left on top of your library. (It's a may ability you can stop at any point!)
i could easily turn this idea thread into a primer, but i haven't seen enough interest in my deck to do so. i know how a lot of cards that work and don't work in this deck, cards you want to see in opening hands, etc., because i've been working on it for years.
if this deck ever garners more interest, i'll turn it into a primer. but until then, i don't see any point in putting in a lot of work just to see it vanish into all the deck creation primers of years past.
first of all:
Surgical Extraction is very Rarely useless. it's nonbasic land denial, win-con denial, control denial, etc., all rolled into one instant that you don't even need mana for. it wins games in a mill deck, discard deck, or any other grindy sort of(control) deck. you can even set up your own combo with it by taking a bunch of, say, Relentless Rats out of your library to get to the win.
secondly:
i love Surgical Extraction.
i run 6 in my mill deck to help secure me the win. a lot of people on this forum told me i was crazy for doing it, but screw 'em. they don't know what they're talking about.
i feel it's positioned nicely for the meta right now. it has helped me in 95% of the matchups i've played against.
but then again, i'm a rogue deck creator.
so you might not want to listen to an anti-netdecker.
the lotus cobras are there for a backup turn three Obliterator options, as well as Bloom Tender. if you miss out on a first turn bird via Fume Spitter, Cobra and Bloom tender are there for being able to ramp into Obliterator on turn three. but, with Eldritch Evolution in the deck, they could also be used to pull an Obliterator right out of your library on turn three if you don't have one in your hand.
Phyrexian Metamorph is in the deck in case you need to match a third turn siege rhino or a goyf that grew wicked quick, with the perk of being able to copy an Obliterator.
i didn't really think that collective brutality is as good as eldritch evolution. the choices are pretty meh for CoBru. for example, you have to pay two mana and discard a card just to hit an opponent with a Duress and make them lose 2 life and you gain two life.
Tooth and Nail is a way to grab some extra Obliterators or a Metamorph if you need it. there's even slight potential of casting it on turn 4, which could make for a string of obliterators hitting the battlefield over a few turns. plus, since the entwined cost is 9 mana, it's like a double green sun in one card if you pull two obliterators to the battlefield. you could use [c]Chord of Calling/c] here as well, but i like how explosive Tooth and Nail can be.
I used to run it in an elves shell years ago, but switched it up. The way the deck has evolved since then has been for the better, not just with consistency, but sealing up the game on turn 4 or 5. Having an archdruid get blown off the board on turn 2/3 usually left me up crap creek without a paddle and threw a serious wrench in my ramp plan. I haven't been keeping up with elves over the past couple years, though.
If you have access to 7+ mana on turn three, no search is expensive. Especially when that search card comes with a flying 6/6 body. In this deck, your turn three is your search turn. You find the appropriate win-con against whatever deck you're playing(Primal Surge, Primeval Titan, chaining together Rune-Scarred Demon, etc.) if you don't have a win-con already in your hand(which you usually do).
How did Collective Defiance work for you?
Any all-stars from the board worth mentioning?
Very true. I saw that Ray also mentioned them as key components.
Well, you talked me into it.
They're up at bat.
I did have two Infernal Plunge in my 60 as well, but they didn't pull as much weight as i was hoping they would. So, more often than not, thopters and memnites were speed bumps that work well considering the lack of early game trample and flying. Free blockers really helped me protect my walkers an hit ultimates frequently, but they're seriously lacking when it comes to closing the game. That's why i'd prefer creatures or cards that i can block with as well as shell out some damage. I might just switch up a couple cards for two Pia & what'sHisFace to use the 0-drops as blockers and potential removal/2 damage.
I put some thought into rabblemaster and decided i don't like that all goblins have to attack. Not saving blockers could throw me in a sticky situation, but it might not. I haven't tested it yet, so my thoughts on him might be moot. What's your experience with him?
I really wish Dragon Broodmother was straight red...
I haven't posted my pile since i added Chalice to the main, so this is what i'm playing with now:
3 Memnite
3 Ornithopter
4 Bomat Courier
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Magus of the Moon
Noncreature Spells(26):
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Abrade
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Blood Moon
4 Koth of the Hammer
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
16 Mountain
2 Ramunap Ruins
1 Abrade
1 Fulminator Mage
2 Shattering Spree
2 Slagstorm
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Hazoret the Fervent
I've been thinking of cutting thopters and memnites for 2 more land and 4 cards that actually do something other than be chumps and block for my walkers, now that i don't have need for them. Any suggestions for the 4 open slots?
I run bridgeless as well. I added chalice to the main since the last time i posted an it's won me a decent amount of games. It makes me wonder why i never had it mained in the first place. How many matchups did you find yourself moving bridge to the board? From what i've read from posts in here, it seems like it gets boarded out frequently.
Can you suspend rift bolt with a chalice on 1 since suspend is an ability?
i agree with needing ramp, though. if you are able to stick a piper on turn two, turn three you can start cranking out your big fatties while slamming a Quicksilver Amulet. two cards spitting out creatures that stick for 1-mana a pop is a fun thing.
now, if you add in some mana ramp, you won't need as much life stabilization as your list has right now. this means you can make room for big fatties that take over the game, such as Primeval Titan. this guy will make it so that by turn 5 you should be able to hard cast big fatties as well as spit them out for one mana via piper and/or amulet.
also, might i suggest Seedborn Muse for your decklist. she will allow you to double up on using piper or amulet and also open up mana for instant speed reaction or search.
i hope some of this helps you out.
3 Vexing Devil
4 Llanowar Mentor
4 Fauna Shaman
2 Myr Superion
2 Spellskite
4 Death's Shadow
4 Varolz, the scar-striped
1 Hunted Horror
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Fatal Push
22 lands
1 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Ground
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Sulfurous Springs
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Swamp
My brother and i came up with a list of the best creatures to use with Varolz as soon as he came out because we thought he had potential as a card to build a deck around. the only unfortunate thing about him is that he's the only creature with the ability to give other creatures scavenge...
since Green Sun's Zenith is still banned, unfortunately, we are left with limited choices to search out Varolz. initially, we thought to use Chord of Calling, but by the time we Chord a Varolz, it'd already be turn 4 or 5. we'd already be dead against a competitive deck. But then, i remembered Fauna Shaman. She gets the creatures we want to scavenge to the graveyard While searching for the creature we needed at the time or for next turn.
Spark Elemental and Vexing Devil are awesome additions as well. they cost one mana and have the potential to deal damage on turn 1. on top of these things, they also scavenge quite well. Spark will give 3 +1/+1 counters and Devil will give 4 +1/+1 counters. Since we couldn't find another decent card like Llanowar Mentor to use, i decided to go with some cheap scavengable creatures with a lot of bang for their 1-mana casting cost. i also had Silhanna Ledgewalker in here and a rather unblockable creature, but i took her out due to being a 2-drop. i've been thinking of testing Slippery Bogle as a body to keep dumping scavenge counters onto. Thrunn, The Last Troll might not be a bad idea, either.
screw discard. everybody uses it. it's in every deck. watch, thoughtseize is going to be the next card banned in modern because it's making it's way into every deck it can. i'm going to add white into my manabase just for Leyline of Sanctity. oh, and so i can also laugh at everybody running discard. but i digress. only 8 control cards is less than what i usually like to run, but it should be enough.
i hope some of this helps you guys out. i haven't taken the deck to an FNM or anything, but it's a lot of fun to play with in multiplayer games at my or a friends house or just a casual match of 1v1. it's not quite where i want it to be on a competitive level, but if it gets there, i've got to try it out at a tournament to see how it does.
Edit: i didn't see you had Utopia Sprawl in your list until after i posted. isn't there another enchantment that's practically the same, though?
that would be another easy way to manipulate nice amounts of mana out of Magus of the Vineyard. if only there was a way to keep untapping it so you could go infinite on turn two or three...
also, i suggest using a playset of Primeval titan. if you get him to stick on turn three, you can win by pulling an Inkmoth Nexus and a Kessig Wolf Run and attacking for 10+ infect on the next turn as a backup wincon.
this is my current list. i'll update the opening post and turn this thread into a primer once my computer is fixed.
4 Arbor Elf
4 Lotus Cobra
2 Spellskite
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Primeval Titan
4 Rune-Scarred Demon
Other Spells(17):
1 Primal Surge
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Mind Stone
4 Heartbeat of Spring
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Liliana Vess
1 Privileged Position
1 Akroma's Memorial
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
2 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Twilight Mire
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Acidic Slime
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gilt-Leaf Winnower
1 Shriekmaw
1 Keening Banshee
3 Trinisphere
2 Eternal Witness
4 Leyline of Sanctity
here are some reasons as to why i chose the cards i did for my main 60. there aren't many flex slots at all in the main pile of this deck, so it doesn't make for much wiggle room.
Creature choices:
Arbor Elf- this guy is a must have in every surge deck. he's what helps enable a 2nd turn Heartbeat into third turn RSDemon or Prime Time. when mixed with Utopia Sprawl, Arbor Elf really has the chance to shine and makes everything so easy to cast. plus, people like to fry him before you even get a chance to drop a Lotus Cobra, which makes the elf a nice lightning rod for ramp just as effective as himself.
importance: 4/4
Lotus Cobra-a great drop for second turn if you haven't hit a heartbeat, or if you just don't want to play heartbeat quite yet. Lotus Cobra can help produce insane amounts of mana in the early-mid game, and that's just what we need since we're trying to cast a Primal Surge on turn three or four. netting 2 mana just from dropping and popping a fetchland is awesome in a ramp deck. i even pull fetchlands when i drop my Prime Time once i know i'm going the beatdown route because i can pop them in the middle of next combat, milk mana out of my snake, and use it to pump up a creature with kessig. since Prime Time pulls more mana out of cobra in combat as well, you can have 4 mana from one cobra in your pool, just in a combat step...
it's a great setup for an amazing finish and i feel this card is more than necessary in my strategy.
importance: 4/4
Spellskite- Owns bogles and messes up burn, which is a plus. but to be honest, Skite is really in this deck for protection. it's a true lightning rod since it doesn't die to bolt and it protects my elf, cobra, and prime time from any sort of targeted removal. one of the only early game layers of protection, i feel more than one copy is necessary. but, it may not work for everybody. so, i've come to the conclusion that this could be a flex spot since skite could be moved to the sideboard.
importance: 1/4
Dosan the Falling Leaf- you have to remember, with 4 heartbeat on the board, your opponents will have more mana than you think they do. this makes blowing through Akroma's Memorial, Privileged Position, and Spellskite easier than you'd think. it's still not easy to do, but could be done with the right cards. Dosan is there to back them up as well as offer anti-counter protection. essentially, he helps you win on the turn that you surge more than any other card. putting your opponents reactive plays on hold until their next turn is crucial, especially when they aren't going to have a next turn. this makes for no disruption, which makes for an uncontested win. it's importance is much higher than the fact that it only has one slot out of 75 to take up.
importance: 3/4
Laboratory Maniac- the win condition. i only need one, since i have layers of protection to ensure it sticks around while i'm surging through my deck. Maniac and Mind Stone win me the game. 3 slots for a free win? that's less than twin took... i'll take it!
importance: 4/4
Primeval Titan- the alternate win. one of my favorite cards. the power of this guy is insane. he ramps when he enters the battlefield, he ramps when he attacks. he helps get to 10 mana, but he also wins the game by himself with that much mana and 2 turns instead of just one. plus, who doesn't like swinging with a 16/6 Prime Time on turn 4?
importance: 4/4
Rune-Scarred Demon- our Surge search comes with a huge body that flies. i love it. the only problem i've had with Surge search is trying to figure out what i should use as RSD 5-6.
importance: 4/4
Spell Choices:
Primal Surge- The Namesake. The WinCon. Enough said.
importance: 4/4
Utopia Sprawl- Another piece of the early-game ramp puzzle. with Arbor Elf and Garruk, you can net a lot of mana from this 1-drop.
importance:4/4
Mind Stone- some early game ramp to help out when it's in your opening hand that also doubles as a wincon after you've surged. if you need more cards early on, you could pop a mind stone and not have to worry since there are multiple copies. these slots could also be considered as a flex slot, though i would never take the stones out of my main 60.
importance: 2/4
Heartbeat of Spring- A massive part of the ramp plan. do you need it? not really, to be honest. but i have yet to find a better permanent that ramps as well as Heartbeat does. plus, it enables lots and lots of mana. which is exactly what we're looking for. now, it doesn't have to be Heartbeat. you could also use Dictate of Karametra. i haven't tested the dictate out yet, but i've been considering it lately. either way, you need a playset of one of the two. or a mixture of the two. whichever you choose is up to you.
importance: 4/4
Garruk Wildspeaker- drop him on turn 2, followed by a Heartbeat? yupp. Garruk is some serious ramp and enables off the wall plays that nobody could see coming. Second turn Garruk into Cobra, mind stone, another utopia sprawl and an arbor elf. he could make a 3/3 if you don't have anything to ramp into. and Garruk is also another wincon, making your elves and cobras deadly with his overrun ult. too good to cut, in my opinion.
importance: 4/4
Liliana Vess- A RSD 5 test. Four search cards for Surge aren't enough, but i haven't had a problem with 5 search cards. Liliana is much more than a search card. she can help take a small hand away and reduce threat to our permanents as well as take over with her ult if you ever have to really grind it out. i like the results that i've seen so far, more so than Sidisi. regardless, you need a 5th search card. what you choose is up to you.
importance: 2/4
Privileged Position- protection for my permanents. very, very important if you cut Dosan for any reason(which i advise against).
importance: 2/4
Akroma's Memorial- Give Jund the finger. well, give everything the finger other than Path to Exile and fringe control like Beast Within. another layer of protection for creatures. plus, another beatdown wincon for your creatures.
importance: 2/4
Kessig Wolf Run- hands down, a must-need when you're running Primeval Titan. i only use one due to chances of only getting colorless mana in your opening hand. since i run 2 Boseiju, who Shelter's All, i can only run 1 Kessig. but if you're confident in your list, or aren't afraid of counters, a 2-1 kessig/boseiju list seems like it'd be more aggressive. i just like the extra defense against one of the most relevant forms of control i play against.
importance: 3/4
Fetchlands:- it's worth noting how much influence a fetchland has in the ramp system in this deck. with Lotus Cobra and Primeval Titan at our beck and call, we can manipulate a fetchland to its maximum potential. i'd love to increase my fetchland total from 7 to 10, but i can't seem to squeeze in those extra lands. trying to squeeze in a Mikororo, Center of The Sea is hard enough, considering we have to cover 4 different colors in this deck(my original version, at least).
you know, Mikokoro wouldn't be a bad addition at all. some extra draw early game along with a strong way to suck up some leftover mana on the end of an opponents turn. with Mind Stone i have all the wincon i need for the maniac, but i do agree that some extra draw would be nice.
also, Dosan isn't in there for just counter protection. he's there to stop any crazy sort of shenanigans that could blast through my creature protection and bolt my maniac. he's basically the layer that makes getting to my kill impossible and i like having that security net. there's no need to add more ramp, as well. if anything, i'd say more wincons are in order. but, with Primeval Titan in our corner, pulling out Kessig makes any creature a wincon. you could keep turning arbor elf and lotus cobra into 10/1 tramplers and not even give two farts.
the combo isn't the only way to win with my deck and i love that about it. the opening hand is what tells you if you're going to combo, or going to beat face.
i've never once had RSD be, "and abject failure." he's regularly cast on turn three when in my opening hand(the same turn Sidisi can be cast), his massive flying body enables kessig to make him very deadly, and it doesn't matter if he dies when you play him. you netted a card from him entering the battlefield, and you empty a spot removal card from their hand if they have one. he's also clutch against Infect due to flying, which really helps me in that matchup.
i could easily turn this idea thread into a primer, but i haven't seen enough interest in my deck to do so. i know how a lot of cards that work and don't work in this deck, cards you want to see in opening hands, etc., because i've been working on it for years.
if this deck ever garners more interest, i'll turn it into a primer. but until then, i don't see any point in putting in a lot of work just to see it vanish into all the deck creation primers of years past.
Surgical Extraction is very Rarely useless. it's nonbasic land denial, win-con denial, control denial, etc., all rolled into one instant that you don't even need mana for. it wins games in a mill deck, discard deck, or any other grindy sort of(control) deck. you can even set up your own combo with it by taking a bunch of, say, Relentless Rats out of your library to get to the win.
secondly:
i love Surgical Extraction.
i run 6 in my mill deck to help secure me the win. a lot of people on this forum told me i was crazy for doing it, but screw 'em. they don't know what they're talking about.
i feel it's positioned nicely for the meta right now. it has helped me in 95% of the matchups i've played against.
but then again, i'm a rogue deck creator.
so you might not want to listen to an anti-netdecker.
Phyrexian Metamorph is in the deck in case you need to match a third turn siege rhino or a goyf that grew wicked quick, with the perk of being able to copy an Obliterator.
i didn't really think that collective brutality is as good as eldritch evolution. the choices are pretty meh for CoBru. for example, you have to pay two mana and discard a card just to hit an opponent with a Duress and make them lose 2 life and you gain two life.
Tooth and Nail is a way to grab some extra Obliterators or a Metamorph if you need it. there's even slight potential of casting it on turn 4, which could make for a string of obliterators hitting the battlefield over a few turns. plus, since the entwined cost is 9 mana, it's like a double green sun in one card if you pull two obliterators to the battlefield. you could use [c]Chord of Calling/c] here as well, but i like how explosive Tooth and Nail can be.