I'm retooling a deck. Previously I had been running rhystic tutor but too often someone has the mana to stop it. The deck is budget and I need to be able to search for either a creature or artifact depending on what is going on in the game. Transmute won't work because the things have different casting costs. Most of the good tutors I can think of are too expensive. I don't run that many swamps so beseech the queen seems difficult to cast. Honestly one the reason I went with rhystic tutor over diabolic tutor was even 2 black seems difficult to get. The deck is blue, red, black.
Do you guys think diabolic tutor is my best option? and do you think its any good? It feels really slow to me. Spending turn 4 (or 5 if I miss a land drop) fetching something feels MASSIVELY worse then doing that on turn 3 or 4.
I have a 5 color Zubera deck. My deck is HEAVILY reliant on tokens from Dripping-Tongue Zubera (and abzan ascendancy which I also run) to keep myself alive. That combined with the lack of life gain from not running silent-chant Zubera makes me wonder what is stopping your opponent from just killing you?
I used to run Shirei, Shizo's caretaker but ended up removing him. Either I couldn't cast him do to mana issues, or he was instantly dead once he hit the field. Also I found making my creatures have more then 1 power was more useful then them coming back to life.
I also found that two devouring greed was plenty as its only worth casting with a nice stockpile of spirits. My deck has less card drawing and no scrying so I would think 2 is plenty for you.
I could post my deck if you wanted but since mine is 5 color not sure how useful that would be. My deck has no way of bringing zuberas back at all. My dead zuberas are replaced by spirit tokens which can then swing since I make them bigger or then themselves be sacked to goblin bombardment or devouring greed. I also run 24 things that count as zuberas vs your 12 so i'm much more likely to draw into more zuberas eaither normally or through floating-dream zubera
I tried to make a budget altar of the brood deck using mishra, artificer prodigy and lots of artifacts. It ended up having some effectiveness and I had fun with blood clock but the deck was just too vulnerable to removal. All the opponents had to do was kill mishra and it was just over. I remember thinking the deck soooooo needed spellskite to protect things but my deck was budget (very very budget. Only gave myself $10 using tcg player low including lands) so that was out and I couldn't find anything else to replace it.
Mishra is definitely a fun card but I couldn't get it to work well enough for my standards, at least not on my budget.
I don't know what you guys are talking about by "optimized" decks. I look at cards and if I see one I really like then I build a deck around it. For example, I liked parallel lives and I liked the populate mechanic so I made a deck that used them. I liked the idea of turning the "downside" of the hunted cards like hunted phantasm into upsides and so I paired them with cards like blood seeker and illness in the ranks. Once I think of an idea I then make the deck as effective as possible while staying within that deck's theme. I feel like my decks are optimized.
If by "optimizing" a deck you mean looking around the internet and coping someone else's effective deck then no thanks. What is the point of building a deck when its just plagiarizing someone else? If you don't mean that then again I don't know what you are talking about.
Cube is not an option. My group is just not interested.
As for my decks I currently have 21. To get an idea of what we play, its mostly 2v2, ffa, 3v3, 2v2v2, Emperor and Pentagram. Its hard to compare my group to what you guys play (since I don't know what your groups are like) but I strongly suspect my playgroup is far more agro then yours. Its not a sit around and wait for someone to do an infinite combo group.
I am in a serious magic slump. I'm still having fun playing the game, but I can't seem to think of anything fun to build anymore. At this point whenever I think about building something new I lose interest almost immediately. The new deck is either too similar to one of my existing decks or it just won't ever win. I even threw winning out the window with my last three decks. I thought "screw it, who cares if it never wins, at least its different," but it turns out never winning takes the fun out of it.
I used to think Magic had unlimited variation on what to build, but now I feel like I have come to the end of the diversity.
Anyway, how many decks do you guys have? and do you feel like there are lots of possibilities for building more?
I don't think Avaricious Dragon is quite as bad as you think it is. I feel like there are enough ways to make its downside of discarding your hand an upside. The card has enough interesting interactions to make me at least want to experiment with it.
I'm not saying its the greatest card ever, and I haven't given it all that much thought yet, but your "unplayable in any format" seems a bit far to me. 4 mana for a 4/4 flier in a deck where I want to dump my hand anyway and I get another draw each turn until it dies seems to offer some potential to me.
Not to pile on with the negative comments, but I too have tried a deck very similar to this and have found it to be way too slow (and I tried it years ago so there has been allot of power creep since then). We are playing a game where there are multiple two card infinite combos not to mention some very agro decks. This type of card interaction just doesn't cut it anymore, at least it doesn't in my playgroups.
2. Even when you have the set using all 3 of them takes 4 mana. That means that you aren't doing much on your turn except activating the abilities.
This is not a problem. Have you ever seen someone activate all three abilities in one turn and not win that game?
Of course I have seen someone activate all three abilities in one turn and not win the game. The set is by no means an instant win. Often times it takes a while to turn the tide (if it ever does). During that time you need the extra mana to play more of the set, protect the set, or keep yourself alive. You clearly either never actually built a deck that uses it or play with far less competitive people if you think just having all 3 pieces means you win the game, and that is just talking about single player. He mentioned using this deck in multiplayer in his original post
I tried to make a budget deck around them at the time. Was not able to get one that ran at "acceptable levels" and took it apart. My playgroup is very agro though. Its possible you would have more luck
The set has five problems.
1. They are so easy to kill.
2. Even when you have the set using all 3 of them takes 4 mana. That means that you aren't doing much on your turn except activating the abilities.
3. Getting the three pieces.
4. Living long enough to pull this all off
5. The cards are bad unless you have all three. 3 mana to tap a creature?, tap to deal 1 damage to a player? 1 mana tap for a 1/1 token? All unplayable alone.
So, it seems to me the rest of the deck has to be dedicated to solving those problems.
Problem 1: I would run darksteel forge. Remove from game stuff like oblivion ring will still be a problem but at least destroy stuff is out. Its allot of mana but that is a problem we already have to solve anyway. You could also consider welding jar if you want something low mana.
problem 2. I would run the Urza lands. Urza's Mine, Urza's Power plant and Urza's tower just incase you weren't familiar with them. They will generate allot of mana, and since the set is colorless we are fine with colorless mana. Drawing into each piece will be a problem, but again that is a problem we already have to solve anyway.
Problem 3. We need card advantage to get all the pieces of the stuff we need. We also need consistent card advantage because what we need will change throughout the game. To me this means running blue. I would run merfolk looter and possible one if his clones like thought courier as well. Worst case they can be chump blockers. Also, since you will be dumping cards into the graveyard, will want to recover pieces destroyed by opponents, and will be running blue anyway I would run academy ruins if you can afford it. My version did not run it because my version was budget. Also, since you are running blue I would run some sort of counter spell. Counterspell itself might be a bad idea since the double blue to cast it will be hard to get. Maybe something like negate
Problem 4. This is where we start to run into trouble. You could try stalling tactics like aetherize, propaganda or fatespinner.
Problem 5. I got nothing. The cards are bad unless you have all 3. There will be games where you get unlucky and don't draw into them. Maybe consider some sort of alternate win? Idk what to suggest though.
It's already been said, but I'll just repeat it for you:
It's entirely possible that the spider was different. Maybe it started life as a 2/5 or a 1/6 or something, and they came up with the name, the art and the flavour, but during testing it just wasn't the right size for the format. So they made it a 1/4, which made it functionally the same as Rib Cage Spider, but instead of throwing away the artwork and flavour, they kept it and just changed the numbers thinking "No one will really care, that would be absurd, it's just limited fodder!"
That explanation does not work. They commission the art, name the card. Fine. Once they do all that balancing and decided it should be the same as rib cage spider they should have said "ok, we have this card name and art. We will save this for when we have space for a new card and just reprint rib cage spider instead.
They wouldn't print a card called Yellow Jacket Wasp anymore because that's a mundane animal that you can find anywhere. If they made up a new wasp it wouldn't be Blue Jacket Wasp. Blue Jacket would just call attention to how not special it is.
Rib cage markings are meaningless. Hitchclaws are at least something. They inform you how the spider works, and make sense at 1 power. Hitchclaw Recluses hide away and grab stuff. A Rib Cage spider is a large spider.
You and I clearly have no common ground to to build a conversation on. The idea that distinctive markings on a creature's back are meaningless while deformed hook claws are somehow awesome flavor is nonsense. Deformed hook claws that don't make it any more effective at killing then rib like markings as both have 1 power anyway.
Both cards reference physical attributes of the creature, yet one is meaningless and one is totally awesome. Yellow Jacket could never be a magic card, but rattlesnake that is just sooooooooooooooo cooooooooooooooool
I feel like allot of people responding to this thread only read half of my original post. I feel like 60% of people just say "Its for draft, and just because sporcap spider was the appropriate power level at one point doesn't mean its the appropriate power level now."
There is a reason I brought up Rib Cage Spider first. This exact card already existed. If they wanted a common 1/4 reach for 2G in draft they just could have reprinted Rib Cage Spider.
A new card should have done something different. I don't know why so many people here are against that concept. Having more then one card in a deck that does the same exact thing leeds to boring decks and cluttered card databases.
Also, its called Rib Cage Spider because of the marking on its back. Look at the card art. Ever hear of the yellow jacket wasp? Its called that because of its marking. Its not actually wearing a jacket........like a person would.....
Do you guys think diabolic tutor is my best option? and do you think its any good? It feels really slow to me. Spending turn 4 (or 5 if I miss a land drop) fetching something feels MASSIVELY worse then doing that on turn 3 or 4.
I used to run Shirei, Shizo's caretaker but ended up removing him. Either I couldn't cast him do to mana issues, or he was instantly dead once he hit the field. Also I found making my creatures have more then 1 power was more useful then them coming back to life.
I also found that two devouring greed was plenty as its only worth casting with a nice stockpile of spirits. My deck has less card drawing and no scrying so I would think 2 is plenty for you.
I could post my deck if you wanted but since mine is 5 color not sure how useful that would be. My deck has no way of bringing zuberas back at all. My dead zuberas are replaced by spirit tokens which can then swing since I make them bigger or then themselves be sacked to goblin bombardment or devouring greed. I also run 24 things that count as zuberas vs your 12 so i'm much more likely to draw into more zuberas eaither normally or through floating-dream zubera
Mishra is definitely a fun card but I couldn't get it to work well enough for my standards, at least not on my budget.
If by "optimizing" a deck you mean looking around the internet and coping someone else's effective deck then no thanks. What is the point of building a deck when its just plagiarizing someone else? If you don't mean that then again I don't know what you are talking about.
As for my decks I currently have 21. To get an idea of what we play, its mostly 2v2, ffa, 3v3, 2v2v2, Emperor and Pentagram. Its hard to compare my group to what you guys play (since I don't know what your groups are like) but I strongly suspect my playgroup is far more agro then yours. Its not a sit around and wait for someone to do an infinite combo group.
My decks:
1. Elf. Wins through timberwatch elf and goblin bombardment. Survives through life gain and meekstone.
2. Proteus staff/Polymorph. Wins through emrakul, the aeons torn
3. blue creature steal.
4. relentless rats deck. Its an edh deck but it doesn't really care and I often use it in normal games
5. Bird tribal deck. Probably my worst deck. Built around soulcatchers' Aerie
6. Green/White enchantment deck. No cards but lands and enchantments. Wins through helix pinnacle. Survives through sphere of safety
7. green/red kiki-jiki the mirror breaker
8. black/white extort/athreos, god of passage
9. green/white populate
10. five color instant control
11. blasphemous act/ stuffy doll
12. blood seeker/ hunted phantasm
13. scry/flamespeaker adept
14. purphoros, god of the forge/shared animosity and goblin tokens
15. Zubra deck
16. white token deck
17. rishadan pirate/blink control
18. flying black creatures with life link and nightmare lash
19. red creature steal
20. agro merfolk
21. self decking blue/green deck. runs stuff like splinterfright
I used to think Magic had unlimited variation on what to build, but now I feel like I have come to the end of the diversity.
Anyway, how many decks do you guys have? and do you feel like there are lots of possibilities for building more?
1. Some decks like to fill their graveyard
2. Madness
3. Hellbent
4. Spell Mastery
5. Delve
6. Bunch of niche cards like ghastly demise, avatar of woe, mindstorm crown
I'm not saying its the greatest card ever, and I haven't given it all that much thought yet, but your "unplayable in any format" seems a bit far to me. 4 mana for a 4/4 flier in a deck where I want to dump my hand anyway and I get another draw each turn until it dies seems to offer some potential to me.
Of course I have seen someone activate all three abilities in one turn and not win the game. The set is by no means an instant win. Often times it takes a while to turn the tide (if it ever does). During that time you need the extra mana to play more of the set, protect the set, or keep yourself alive. You clearly either never actually built a deck that uses it or play with far less competitive people if you think just having all 3 pieces means you win the game, and that is just talking about single player. He mentioned using this deck in multiplayer in his original post
The set has five problems.
1. They are so easy to kill.
2. Even when you have the set using all 3 of them takes 4 mana. That means that you aren't doing much on your turn except activating the abilities.
3. Getting the three pieces.
4. Living long enough to pull this all off
5. The cards are bad unless you have all three. 3 mana to tap a creature?, tap to deal 1 damage to a player? 1 mana tap for a 1/1 token? All unplayable alone.
So, it seems to me the rest of the deck has to be dedicated to solving those problems.
Problem 1: I would run darksteel forge. Remove from game stuff like oblivion ring will still be a problem but at least destroy stuff is out. Its allot of mana but that is a problem we already have to solve anyway. You could also consider welding jar if you want something low mana.
problem 2. I would run the Urza lands. Urza's Mine, Urza's Power plant and Urza's tower just incase you weren't familiar with them. They will generate allot of mana, and since the set is colorless we are fine with colorless mana. Drawing into each piece will be a problem, but again that is a problem we already have to solve anyway.
Problem 3. We need card advantage to get all the pieces of the stuff we need. We also need consistent card advantage because what we need will change throughout the game. To me this means running blue. I would run merfolk looter and possible one if his clones like thought courier as well. Worst case they can be chump blockers. Also, since you will be dumping cards into the graveyard, will want to recover pieces destroyed by opponents, and will be running blue anyway I would run academy ruins if you can afford it. My version did not run it because my version was budget. Also, since you are running blue I would run some sort of counter spell. Counterspell itself might be a bad idea since the double blue to cast it will be hard to get. Maybe something like negate
Problem 4. This is where we start to run into trouble. You could try stalling tactics like aetherize, propaganda or fatespinner.
Problem 5. I got nothing. The cards are bad unless you have all 3. There will be games where you get unlucky and don't draw into them. Maybe consider some sort of alternate win? Idk what to suggest though.
That explanation does not work. They commission the art, name the card. Fine. Once they do all that balancing and decided it should be the same as rib cage spider they should have said "ok, we have this card name and art. We will save this for when we have space for a new card and just reprint rib cage spider instead.
Also has cool interactions with specific cards like
blood scrivener
mindstorm crown
anthem of rakdos
just to name a few.
You and I clearly have no common ground to to build a conversation on. The idea that distinctive markings on a creature's back are meaningless while deformed hook claws are somehow awesome flavor is nonsense. Deformed hook claws that don't make it any more effective at killing then rib like markings as both have 1 power anyway.
Both cards reference physical attributes of the creature, yet one is meaningless and one is totally awesome. Yellow Jacket could never be a magic card, but rattlesnake that is just sooooooooooooooo cooooooooooooooool
Also, Rib cage Spider has the better flavor text.
There is a reason I brought up Rib Cage Spider first. This exact card already existed. If they wanted a common 1/4 reach for 2G in draft they just could have reprinted Rib Cage Spider.
A new card should have done something different. I don't know why so many people here are against that concept. Having more then one card in a deck that does the same exact thing leeds to boring decks and cluttered card databases.
Also, its called Rib Cage Spider because of the marking on its back. Look at the card art. Ever hear of the yellow jacket wasp? Its called that because of its marking. Its not actually wearing a jacket........like a person would.....