The fact that their backside indicators are "equipment" and "god" makes me think that all gods in the cycle will be DFC cards with an equipment on the backside.
Almost certainly. God cards have been done as cycles, I would expect the same here.
So I guess this time the gods' legendary weapons ARE the gods.
That's interesting flavour-wise. Wonder how this will compare to other DFCs in set, will they also be creatures/equipment or perhaps creatures/auras?
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
Reaching sis. Y'all looking for racism anywhere you can find it, and inventing/baiting it anywhere you can't. Spare us your white guilt, not all of us are American, and creating new people to bully (even your own) isn't changing the past, but retooling those sins to create new victims. You haven't seen real oppression in the modern era, and you shouldn't want to. Your intentions are admirable, but it's really holding us all back by reviving old tensions. It's very convienent for liberals to occupy the nation with old, dated and mostly expired racial emotions (tried and true) to overlook how increasing taxes for them to pocket hasn't actually made any difference except create new avenues for our bloated government to curiously churn out millionaire politicians.
If you like to spend 15 actual seconds on google, you can find clear evidence for the fact the nazis did in fact use a bunch of runic symbols and others have continued to do so on some scale. This is a fact.
Now, what should we do about this fact with regards to a norse themed set? Well, that's a different question. But we can say for a fact Nazis and Nazi-likes will be interested in this stuff for all the wrong reasons, and I don't know, maybe that's something to just consider for a second in how we approach the subject.
All that was being suggested was that including black people and LGBT+ people in a Norse world was a strike against giving fascists what they want from this sort of world, and you know, that sounds like a nice thing to do.
Nice tangent into tax policy(?!?) though.
No one cares.
MTGSalvation: "Norse Myth World! Can't wait to see snow, Vikings, gods, etc.!"
Liberal NPCs: "How can we make this about Racism? It's the only algorithm we can run in our minds!"
And they call me negative.
WotC: "Here are some inclusive characters for this new Norse world that increase the game's representation"
Some people: "Hey, that representation has additional meaning in this context given history"
You: "Everyone always making things about racism"
I'm sorry that racism and other prejudices exist buddy. It sucks, I know.
If you don't want to talk about discrimination, you don't have to. You don't have to scream at people for daring to mention it. Sometimes it comes up. That's it. No one's calling the entire world concept bigoted. No one's saying anything of the sort.
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
Reaching sis. Y'all looking for racism anywhere you can find it, and inventing/baiting it anywhere you can't. Spare us your white guilt, not all of us are American, and creating new people to bully (even your own) isn't changing the past, but retooling those sins to create new victims. You haven't seen real oppression in the modern era, and you shouldn't want to. Your intentions are admirable, but it's really holding us all back by reviving old tensions. It's very convienent for liberals to occupy the nation with old, dated and mostly expired racial emotions (tried and true) to overlook how increasing taxes for them to pocket hasn't actually made any difference except create new avenues for our bloated government to curiously churn out millionaire politicians.
If you like to spend 15 actual seconds on google, you can find clear evidence for the fact the nazis did in fact use a bunch of runic symbols and others have continued to do so on some scale. This is a fact.
Now, what should we do about this fact with regards to a norse themed set? Well, that's a different question. But we can say for a fact Nazis and Nazi-likes will be interested in this stuff for all the wrong reasons, and I don't know, maybe that's something to just consider for a second in how we approach the subject.
All that was being suggested was that including black people and LGBT+ people in a Norse world was a strike against giving fascists what they want from this sort of world, and you know, that sounds like a nice thing to do.
Y'all really sounding like Jussie Smollett with these delusions.
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
@Borealis: I mean, Tarkir was also first and foremost a bottom-up wedge block, with only one of five factions having a snowy backdrop.
Kaldheim, on the other hand, is a bottom-up block and a decent chunk of the art shown so far shows snow. I'd rate the chances of snow as a mechanic happening at 90%.
and that they almost certainly split the cycle so they could sell this secret lair.
They always split land cycles like these across sets.
I'm not aware of there ever being a 6-4 split of a "dual" land cycle across two sets.
It's not the only time it hasn't been 5-5 though. It was done this way because Zendikar is a land set and because they wanted those 6 colour combinations for the set's themes, namely the party tribe colours.
Nothing to do with secret lair as far as we have any reason to believe.
Kaldheim Translation: Cold Home Planechase depiction: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard] Playerbase Expectation: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under maybe a constant blizzard] Chandra Comic depiction: [A Viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard] Duels of the Planeswalkers depiction: [A crazy viking shaman in a world filled with ice and snow.] Secret Lair depiction: [VERDANT LANDSCAPES! BRIGHT AND SUNNY CLEAR SKIES! oh and some snow. BUT ALSO WE GOT FLOATING ROCKS AND WEIRD GEOGRAPHICAL GEOMETRY]
The planechase depiction was from a specific region, to be fair. It wasn't necessarily supposed to be representative of every corner of the world, as much as any of the planechase cards from known planes aren't always particularly representative of the entire plane. Clearwater and Lavaglide pathway arts could well be from the Skybreen region, but it's not surprising the entire world isn't like that. This was announced as a top-down Norse world, not a snow world. I don't know what you were expecting.
My tongue and cheek explanation and also part 2 of how Kaldheim has always been depicted as inspired by Niflheim is my expectation.
And this is not some random out of the blue expectation by the way. From September 4th, 2009 of the original planechase till just a few days ago, so about 11-ish years, we have always been shown Kaldheim is snow and ice. Even the more recent example in late 2018 comic issue 1 done by IDW as approved by Wizards for the Chandra comic depicts Kalhdeim as a land of ice and snow. If they wanted to depict Kaldheim as anything other than just a world of perpetual winter, they had over a decade to show hints.
I suppose then you are confused that all of Zendikar is not a forest based on Tazeem, and that all of Dominaria isn't like the Isle of Vesuva, and all of Mirrodin isn't like the Quicksilver Sea.
I'll repeat, the Planechase cards were never supposed to be representative of the entire plane. It would be misleading if Kaldheim didn't contain the Skybreen area and the kind of landscapes therein, but we've already seen it does. The fact that you saw one Kaldheim planechase card and set your expectation that the entire plane would be like that despite the fact that we've known this whole time it wasn't necessarily representative is entirely your fault, not WotC's for setting misleading expectations. Look at the Planes of Planechase article, it describes *Skybreen*, specifically, not Kaldheim.
And this is especially true given the Skybreen card is from 11 years ago, meaning WotC was not even close to starting work on the Kaldheim set, so there was a lot of room for things to go in different directions. Snow may well be a large part of the set and world anyway. We just know it's not an entire world covered in snow.
And to top that off you can clearly see from some they are also using Muspelheim (Translation: Wreck of the World. A world of fire and heat and chaos and fire giants) for how they are depicting certain aspects of Kaldheim in the unfortunate lens of this secret lair. There is also clear takes of Jotunheim (Giant Home), Asgard (Enclosure of the Aesir), Yggdrasil, and highly likely of Midgard (Middle Enclosure). In case you are wondering why that is an issue, this is the equivalent of smushing Serra's Realm, Phyrexia, Rath, Mercadia, Equilor, and Dominaria and saying they all on the same plane.
Saying "well it don't depict snow, so it not a snowland' then why do we have Clearwater Pathway and Lavaglide Pathway which directly contradict this exact statement? The answer is Wizards does not care they could easily have had the artist sprinkle some snow in the artworks and it would keep it consistent.
I'm extremely aware of the nature of the different Norse realms. I specifically made my own custom set years ago (link in my sig if you want) which just so happens also did exactly what you are complaining about here and mushed the nine realms together. It makes a lot of sense to do. Why limit the content you can draw from him in a Norse mythology set to only one of the realms? And why pick one realm when magic's colour system wants variation in the elements and landscape?
Kaldheim Translation: Cold Home Planechase depiction: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard] Playerbase Expectation: [A viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under maybe a constant blizzard] Chandra Comic depiction: [A Viking world filled with ice and snow that appears to be under a blizzard] Duels of the Planeswalkers depiction: [A crazy viking shaman in a world filled with ice and snow.] Secret Lair depiction: [VERDANT LANDSCAPES! BRIGHT AND SUNNY CLEAR SKIES! oh and some snow. BUT ALSO WE GOT FLOATING ROCKS AND WEIRD GEOGRAPHICAL GEOMETRY]
The planechase depiction was from a specific region, to be fair. It wasn't necessarily supposed to be representative of every corner of the world, as much as any of the planechase cards from known planes aren't always particularly representative of the entire plane. Clearwater and Lavaglide pathway arts could well be from the Skybreen region, but it's not surprising the entire world isn't like that. This was announced as a top-down Norse world, not a snow world. I don't know what you were expecting.
These aren't snow lands, so I'm okay that they're not all that snowy.
This needs more emphasis here.
These aren't snow lands, so, assuming snow is in set, it makes sense they wouldn't be too snowy so that the snow lands actually look somewhat distinct. It would be weird if the snow lands and non-snow lands looked just as snowy as each other.
So, you could argue these lands now being too snowy is a positive sign for the inclusion of snow.
I straight up can't believe they chose these lands to do this in the first place. Would definitely have preferred five more fetchlands with sweet-ass art.
I think R&D has a much higher opinion of these lands than the average Magic player does.
Only so many fancy new art fetchland reprints they can do. Not sure if it would make sense to just print a ton of them until people get bored.
These lands have their audience. If nothing else, they're something new.
I'm inclined to push it a little more, making it a 2/2 or a 2/3 at base. Needs work to be good. It does have a lot of potential if you can make it work though. Slightly dangerous effects in terms of the risks of unfun/unhealthy gameplay I think. Would need to be tested a good deal to help avoid that.
Does anyone have any speculation about how the gods will be colored? Enemy colored gods? I'll be happy to see new gods no matter what color they are but I'm really hoping this new plane will have a continuation of a dual land cycle already started so we can get the enemy color versions. Enemy versions of the Scattered Groves cycle or the Sunken Hollow cycle or even the Foreboding Ruins cycle. After building many a commander deck the disparity in available fixing between allied and enemy colored lands is getting pretty noticeably lopsided.
We already know that the cycle of DFC dual lands started in Zendikar Rising will be completed over the course of three sets, correct?
No. All four remaining MDFC lands will be in Kaldheim. https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/zendikar-rising-challenge-part-2-2020-09-07
"The thing that seemed to seal the deal, interestingly, was a bunch of MDFC designs I'd made years earlier (I tracked down all my old designs from our mini team)—a ten-card cycle I'd made of MDFC dual lands. The moment people saw those, they were like, "We have to make these." (Six of them appear in Zendikar Rising, with the remaining four appearing in Kaldheim.)"
Almost certainly. God cards have been done as cycles, I would expect the same here.
That's interesting flavour-wise. Wonder how this will compare to other DFCs in set, will they also be creatures/equipment or perhaps creatures/auras?
WotC: "Here are some inclusive characters for this new Norse world that increase the game's representation"
Some people: "Hey, that representation has additional meaning in this context given history"
You: "Everyone always making things about racism"
I'm sorry that racism and other prejudices exist buddy. It sucks, I know.
If you don't want to talk about discrimination, you don't have to. You don't have to scream at people for daring to mention it. Sometimes it comes up. That's it. No one's calling the entire world concept bigoted. No one's saying anything of the sort.
If you like to spend 15 actual seconds on google, you can find clear evidence for the fact the nazis did in fact use a bunch of runic symbols and others have continued to do so on some scale. This is a fact.
Now, what should we do about this fact with regards to a norse themed set? Well, that's a different question. But we can say for a fact Nazis and Nazi-likes will be interested in this stuff for all the wrong reasons, and I don't know, maybe that's something to just consider for a second in how we approach the subject.
All that was being suggested was that including black people and LGBT+ people in a Norse world was a strike against giving fascists what they want from this sort of world, and you know, that sounds like a nice thing to do.
Nice tangent into tax policy(?!?) though.
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/628704605890576385/is-kaldheim-a-top-down-norse-mythology-inspired
Kalheim is top down norse mythology. It's not bottom-up.
It's not the only time it hasn't been 5-5 though. It was done this way because Zendikar is a land set and because they wanted those 6 colour combinations for the set's themes, namely the party tribe colours.
Nothing to do with secret lair as far as we have any reason to believe.
I suppose then you are confused that all of Zendikar is not a forest based on Tazeem, and that all of Dominaria isn't like the Isle of Vesuva, and all of Mirrodin isn't like the Quicksilver Sea.
I'll repeat, the Planechase cards were never supposed to be representative of the entire plane. It would be misleading if Kaldheim didn't contain the Skybreen area and the kind of landscapes therein, but we've already seen it does. The fact that you saw one Kaldheim planechase card and set your expectation that the entire plane would be like that despite the fact that we've known this whole time it wasn't necessarily representative is entirely your fault, not WotC's for setting misleading expectations. Look at the Planes of Planechase article, it describes *Skybreen*, specifically, not Kaldheim.
And this is especially true given the Skybreen card is from 11 years ago, meaning WotC was not even close to starting work on the Kaldheim set, so there was a lot of room for things to go in different directions. Snow may well be a large part of the set and world anyway. We just know it's not an entire world covered in snow.
I'm extremely aware of the nature of the different Norse realms. I specifically made my own custom set years ago (link in my sig if you want) which just so happens also did exactly what you are complaining about here and mushed the nine realms together. It makes a lot of sense to do. Why limit the content you can draw from him in a Norse mythology set to only one of the realms? And why pick one realm when magic's colour system wants variation in the elements and landscape?
The planechase depiction was from a specific region, to be fair. It wasn't necessarily supposed to be representative of every corner of the world, as much as any of the planechase cards from known planes aren't always particularly representative of the entire plane. Clearwater and Lavaglide pathway arts could well be from the Skybreen region, but it's not surprising the entire world isn't like that. This was announced as a top-down Norse world, not a snow world. I don't know what you were expecting.
This needs more emphasis here.
These aren't snow lands, so, assuming snow is in set, it makes sense they wouldn't be too snowy so that the snow lands actually look somewhat distinct. It would be weird if the snow lands and non-snow lands looked just as snowy as each other.
So, you could argue these lands now being too snowy is a positive sign for the inclusion of snow.
Only so many fancy new art fetchland reprints they can do. Not sure if it would make sense to just print a ton of them until people get bored.
These lands have their audience. If nothing else, they're something new.
Not sure if they'd ever put that many equipment in one set, assuming Zendikar Rising's MDFCs are any indication for the number of MDFCs we can expect.
Seems like kaya's adopted a much more Kadlheim look for her stay. Axes included. Interesting.
No. All four remaining MDFC lands will be in Kaldheim.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/zendikar-rising-challenge-part-2-2020-09-07
"The thing that seemed to seal the deal, interestingly, was a bunch of MDFC designs I'd made years earlier (I tracked down all my old designs from our mini team)—a ten-card cycle I'd made of MDFC dual lands. The moment people saw those, they were like, "We have to make these." (Six of them appear in Zendikar Rising, with the remaining four appearing in Kaldheim.)"