MTG Salvation

Quote from JuiceBOX »

Quote from SimicNuggets »

Relax, he didn't say anything about not using tropes. He's just saying it's not a reskin of an existing property. Like how Theros is a reskin of greek mythology rather than being their own take on mythology as a medium.

Will it have deus ex machina spells, and important objects to drive the story, and guilds/houses/dark wizards/fantastic beasts? Yes. Because this is their take on the genre and those are tropes that exist in the genre. He just literally means (and literally says) there isn't going to be reskins aka intentional parallel versions of any one of the existing magic school takes.

The problem here is that people already associate wizard schools with things outside of MTG. I am reluctant to say that this won't feel like Harry Potter or something similar, because humans are creatures that observe patterns and make associations based on them.

It will feel like Harry Potter *and* something similar. It will feel like Harry Potter in the same way other magic school stories feel like Harry Potter and the same way Harry Potter feels like other magic school stories.
I'm not sure what the confusion is about. Remember Innistrad? That was also a genre-based setting. It felt like Dracula, and the Wolfman, and Frankenstein and a number of other stories of the like. But it wasn't a reskin of any of those stories, it was it's own world and story that used a combination of familiar elements. Expect something similar here.

Quote from JuiceBOX »

Really, there isn't a good way to do this without it having a Harry Potter feel anymore than it is possible to remove Mindflayers from the feel of Cthulu, Theros from Greek Mythos, Ixalan from Un'Goro, etc.

See, Ixalan is actually a perfect comparison here, because it's not based on Un'Goro, it's based a classic subgenre of 'lost world' stories including Marvel's Savage Land, the Dinotopia series, and the original Lost World by Arthur Conan Doyle.

This is a very *fun* thread. We're all having a great time.
Wish these conversations could be had without going quite this far off the rails.

You forgot to write out flying on the hawk.

Hawk looks kinda good.

I'm interested to hear how the Immersturm is here when it has been listed as being a place/thing on a separately named plane of Valla. Has Valla been ret-conned out of existence? Or has it somehow a part of Kaldheim (yet not one of the realms?)? Is there two immersturms?

Relevant to gauging how many phyrexian cards we can expect (assuming this leak is correct)
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/638595481981894656/hey-mark-got-an-unconventionalhmm-good-unset#notes

Hey Mark, got an unconventional(hmm good Unset name idea..) question for you about watermarks(such as the guilds in Ravnica or the set symbols from Masters 25):

How many cards in a set does it take to make using the watermark a worthwhile effort?

It’s more about theming and factioning than a set number, but in general, I think you need at least ten to fifteen cards needing a watermark before we’d even think about it.

This would seem to indicate we can expect a good ten or so phyrexian cards, though I think this set might be a good example of the kind of exception that is covered under that 'in general' clause.

Throwing phyrexians in seems...unlikely. We haven't been back to Mirrodin New Phyrexia yet or had much hints at them beginning a plane crossing invasion yet. And this set already has some clear story conflicts and themes, the phyrexians are just going to overshadow all of that.
Compared to Eldritch Moon, there we had the advantage of a whole previous block and the Shadows over Innistrad set being essentially just Innistrad based. And with Amonkhet we had the first set before the Bolas stuff went off the wall. This is our very first introduction to Kaldheim and there's Phyrexians already? That seems like a mistake, and one WotC would not likely make.

Quote from Warforged Canuck »

The two who are losing their collective composure are both activists. It's not going to merit rational discussion. They'll flag any opposition as 'hate speech' or 'trolling/flaming' and find new reasons to become repetitively triggered. Wizards dropped the ball on the new set and I hope we get something more than just check box planeswalkers and legends.

You know, it's very kind of you to flatter me by calling me an activist. Here I thought I was just saying some ***** online. I'm glad my words have had such an impact on some people to warrant this praise.

Quote from Warforged Canuck »

More woke garbage. So how long before we get pink and purple as official colors to the mana pie? Jfc

You know, I wasn't previously all that into the idea of adding purple, but you know, now I might just be on board with it. What a good idea.
Please keep the suggestions coming.

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Quote from DJK3654 »

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Quote from DJK3654 »

The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.

Reaching sis. Y'all looking for racism anywhere you can find it, and inventing/baiting it anywhere you can't. Spare us your white guilt, not all of us are American, and creating new people to bully (even your own) isn't changing the past, but retooling those sins to create new victims. You haven't seen real oppression in the modern era, and you shouldn't want to. Your intentions are admirable, but it's really holding us all back by reviving old tensions. It's very convienent for liberals to occupy the nation with old, dated and mostly expired racial emotions (tried and true) to overlook how increasing taxes for them to pocket hasn't actually made any difference except create new avenues for our bloated government to curiously churn out millionaire politicians.

If you like to spend 15 actual seconds on google, you can find clear evidence for the fact the nazis did in fact use a bunch of runic symbols and others have continued to do so on some scale. This is a fact.
Now, what should we do about this fact with regards to a norse themed set? Well, that's a different question. But we can say for a fact Nazis and Nazi-likes will be interested in this stuff for all the wrong reasons, and I don't know, maybe that's something to just consider for a second in how we approach the subject.
All that was being suggested was that including black people and LGBT+ people in a Norse world was a strike against giving fascists what they want from this sort of world, and you know, that sounds like a nice thing to do.

Nice tangent into tax policy(?!?) though.

No one cares.

MTGSalvation: "Norse Myth World! Can't wait to see snow, Vikings, gods, etc.!"

Liberal NPCs: "How can we make this about Racism? It's the only algorithm we can run in our minds!"

And they call me negative.

WotC: "Here are some inclusive characters for this new Norse world that increase the game's representation"
Some people: "Hey, that representation has additional meaning in this context given history"
You: "Everyone always making things about racism"

I'm sorry that racism and other prejudices exist buddy. It sucks, I know.
If you don't want to talk about discrimination, you don't have to. You don't have to scream at people for daring to mention it. Sometimes it comes up. That's it. No one's calling the entire world concept bigoted. No one's saying anything of the sort.

Wait, correct me if I'm wrong, but you can sack the Spirit you just made with Lorehold Command to draw 2, right? So, essentially, this means they printed an Instant speed Divination for Boros? I mean sure, it's a bit overcosted since Instant speed draw 2 costs 4, but still, that's some exciting stuff.
Prismari Command is very similar to Kolaghan's Command, which is a real card that sees real play, so this is one to be excited for.
Witherbloom Command is narrow but has a lot of potential for older formats. If you can either consistently hit either 1 toughness creatures or a ~2CMC noncreature, it's pretty damn good, even if the second mode you're choosing is "recycle a fetchland".
The other two are fine. Quandrix feels pretty underpowered unless you're countering a spell and the Silverquill is on average a cantripping Edict at 4 mana which is... okay, I guess.



Also, people have been speculating that Strixhaven would have a guest appearance of a certain hairy boy in a MtG x Potter crossover. But with the "really cool thing" promised to be revealed exclusive in the .jp website, maybe we'll get a Little Witch Academia crossover instead? That would be dope.

If I had tot ake a guess, I would assume Jin-Gitaxias is affiliated with Quandrix. Math and fractal magic (and biology, which seems to be another theme of Quandrix based on the campus leaflet) is much more on theme for him and phyrexians in general than performance art.

As for the colleges, I feel liek Quandrix is the only one that works well. Fractals and math make sense as a "subject" (since that is what they appear to be going for). Lorehold also works somewhat but an archeology based organisation that's bound to one lcoation is really awkward. Prismari doesn't jive well for me in a Magic setting (what use is there for performance art? Unless the plane of Strixhaven is Ravnica-like). Silverquill appears to be closer to a "clique"-based grouping than a subject based one, similar to the houses in Harry Potter? And Witherbloom is literally just Golgari, lol.

Also, Lorehold has the only good motto. What the hell is "Express yourself with the elements." supposed to be. That's an awful motto that means literally nothing.

Curious about the creature types. Is that Prismari girl a half-ogre? A half-orc? A half-troll? I first thought she might be an Azra, but she has no horns.

I like the templating changes; trimming redundant words mean that either more relevant words can be added to complex cards and simple abilities can read more simply.

Quote from TwinfrodoPhoenix »

I love how the lorehold student is using the scroll as a machine gun lol

That is super silly.

I love how the lorehold student is using the scroll as a machine gun lol

Names sound cool. Anyone that attended university knows dorms and lecture halls have names. "Do you study in Fletcher Hall?" etc. Them being houses isn't exclusive to Potter, only adapted by it.

Quote from Flamebuster »

For those saying it's not Harry Potter influenced...it looks pretty Harry Potter influenced here if you ask me.

'buster

this was discussed in the other thread, wizard schools and houses within them is nothing new. its just a fantasy trope. it was popularized by harry potter but existed long before harry potter. within magic's own history even.

i'm reminded of innistrad where everyone was oh so insistent that the set was banking off twilight's popularity as if werewolves and vampires hadn't existed prior to that trash.

A lot of folks acting like Harry Potter was some ground-breaking original concept. Very few of the concepts themselves were unique although Rowling clearly found a new way to captivate children with the tropes.

I don't expect Strixhaven to be anything brand new conceptually either, which is going to lead to people claiming it a Harry Potter knockoff without even being aware of all of the other similar products and stories that inspired it.

I genuinely hope Strixhaven brings back an emphasis on spell casting and has creatures take a back seat from the spotlight for a bit. I feel that is what this game needs the most.

Quote from Lectrys »

Quote from 5colors »

Quote from Flisch »

Why do both boxes/boosters have the same text? Shouldn't one say "Werewolves" (in japanese) and the other "Vampires"? Either this means its fake (which I honestly don't believe due to all the supplied art) or it's palceholder text. Still odd though.

They cleared that up, the Innistrad "vampire" set (leaks saying its Innistrad: Crimson Vow) is the typical winter set (so Kaldheim this year, Theros 2 last year) moved from January/February to December for holiday spending. If real this all from the werewolf set (Innistrad: Midnight Hunt).

If all these pictures are from the Werewolves set, and the Stromkirk-looking vampire on the throne-looking seat is Runo, then why wouldn't Runo be in the Vampires set instead? (Unless the picture is of a card like "Runo's ___"...)

I think it would be silly to think there wouldn't be any vampires (or spirits/zombies/human who all ready have support from Kaldheim) or non-werewolf tribal at all, just likely won't be the focus. I'm guessing this set will likely have some set up and support for the vampire deck and more payoffs/major pieces in the next set, with the werewolves getting the reversed (major pieces in the first set and some support in the second set).

Guys, GUYS! What we really need in this set is a vehicle of some kind. We also need to then dub that vehicle "the Magic Schoolbus!"

Quote from FlossedBeaver »

Did you guys read Maro's response? Strixhaven is "not just a reskinning of any one version," which leaves it fairly open to borrow from any number of sources. Just like every other set.

Yeah, not sure where people are getting "there will be zero Harry Potter references" from.

My guess: it's an instants and sorceries matter set. This has been described by MaRo as a difficult concept due to needing a certain volume of creatures for a set to work, but was possibly solved by MDFCs with instants and sorceries on the back of creatures.

My other, way more farfetched guess: the plane it's on is Vryn, which has a specific need for a lot of mages.