Wow that Sauron makes a BIG splash. Appropriately. Amass for orcs is a perfect fit, I wonder if that will be in the main set or just this commander deck?
A slightly darker tone does seem to be the thing to expect.
Some theme related to sleeping and dreaming is a good prediction.
Dragon tribal seems possible, maybe as a minor theme though.
Adventures and food seem very likely to return. Biggest reason I could see for either or both to be excluded is new mechanics taking up space.
I think DFCs are possible. Transformation is a major recurring element in fairytales and WotC has shown a willingness to use DFCs more recently.
The big 'Quest' mechanic that was tried during original Eldraine seems like a plausible include this time if they managed to get it to the right place.
Some kind of keyword for knights also seems possible. They considered it in original ELD but this time I doubt they will return Adamant so it might be more highly considered.
Maybe something related to artifacts and/or enchantments.
Sagas could also be here this time.
Right, but again, when only one really matters if there are multiple copies of it out then what's the point of the ability? Why encore and get 2-3 Sliver Queens when you can do Battle Sliver, Megantic Sliver, or the myriad of other +/+ slivers which would affect your board far more? Heck, that's not even counting other good ones like Harmonic Sliver, Thorncaster Sliver, Spiteful Sliver, Lavabelly Sliver, and a couple others that feel far better to Encore. Even on an empty board +/+ slivers would be better than Sliver Queen, Sliver Hivelord, Overlord, and First (though this one is okay, but far worse than Legion.)
No, it's there so it's *own* Encore ability works. So it can Encore itself from the grave.
But also, yeah, it letting Encore other legendaries is not irrelevant.
All decent cards. The "legend rule doesn't apply" feels tacked on and kind of useless on Gravemother, considering there's only 5 other legendary slivers and only one of them really benefits their being multiples. Now maybe there's another legendary sliver or two in this deck and that helps, but currently this just feels like a "this is nice, I guess," sort of ability.
So, Eriette and Ashiok sure looking likely to be the main villains of this set.
I'm assuming Will and Rowan and questing to help restore the courts of Eldraine after...everything that went down in MoM.
I suspect Xerex was not already in the works before MoM began previews, but it seems like a good chance they will get on to making one or have already put it into the plan.
I like some of the cards, but I wouldn't pay the price tag for any of them as usual. Maybe I'll get one or two of the ones that drift under a dollar. But unlike normal reprints, these don't drive values down.
Honestly it's weird to me that Secret Lairs are still proving profitable. How many people are there who want to pay 30$ for 20$ worth of completely random cards? Answer: I guess more than you'd think.
Well, WotC clearly wants the Secret Lairs to be designed and perceived as fun collectibles with unique arts more so than valuable reprints. Make of that what you will.
I mean, as far as the point of wanting to see more about what has happened in the aftermath of this, MaRo did say we should expect to continually learn more over the next couple years of sets. It does seem to have been the goal to not reveal everything. More that this is a general overview and first look.
I like the concept of the 3rd version, the Hunt being a game state is very flexible, but I think it'd be better if you structure it more like
Pursue(Go on the Hunt if you’re not already.)
You would have a wider range of choices for how to structure the trigger.
I did consider that you could break it up to be able to use for instants and sorceries and other options. I do like streamlining it a little complexity wise with how it's used though, and I think it functions best on creatures with can flavourfully do some hunting and stick around to enable the hunt and then reap rewards.
It occurs to me that "Hunter" creatures would be more focused on having better abilities while on the hunt, while "Prey/Trophy" creatures would give their rewards for beginning/ending the Hunt, though plenty of overlap is possible.
I don't want to have too many effects on hunt creatures that reward you being on the hunt though, because that incentivizes you to not actually complete it, whereas the point is supposed to be to go hunting and complete it. The prey creatures wouldn't want to hunt to complete because they are on the menu, this does not end well for them.
[quote from="Simto »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/829684-march-of-the-machine-aftermath-collector-boosters?comment=96"]
Silvers are by design parasitic and need a minimum bar of support to make them work, versus all the other stuff that they can throw into a set from different worlds, slivers are probably more trouble than they are worth.
While that is correct if you're going to have something that affect many planes then you're going to make the audience wonder why certain things were left out. As for the problem with slivers one simple solution would be to have it compleated and have it affect both slivers and phyrexians, allowing for tribal support for limited/constructed and a nice call back that adds something to already cemented types and deck.
Across all the many planes that were featured in MoM, there's a lot of things to include that people might wonder about. There was always going to a number of things left out. We'll see slivers again sometime.
Yup, they'd have to issue a court-ordered warrant to me to get those cards back. No Slivers in Aftermath, I can sit this one out too. I'm excited about the Sliver Swarm precon deck headed our way, I'm saving my money for that.
Now that you mention it, it's pretty weird slivers weren't involved in any of this supposedly totally massive mega ultra multiverse spanding world ending nobody is safe scenario. You'd figure the phyrexians would come across some slivers at this level of invasion stuff right? same with Eldrazi, but it looks like they're waiting with them. (Still very surprised and a bit disappointed we didn't see Emrakul released and have Eldrazi vs Phyrexians taking each other out)
Silvers are by design parasitic and need a minimum bar of support to make them work, versus all the other stuff that they can throw into a set from different worlds, slivers are probably more trouble than they are worth.
Thinking about possible mechanics for a set to represent, top down, the idea of hunting- both from humanoid hunters and animal ones.
The most obvious point was that hunting should involve attacking, dealing damage and/or killing creatures.
Creatures dying is in mtg the territory of morbid and effects with similar themes around decay and necromancy. If I allow a hunt mechanic to care about any creatures dying it will promote sacrificing your own creatures a lot which doesn't feel right, but if it's just your opponents that makes the mechanic harder to build around and generally more unreliable when you do know how many creatures your opponent is playing.
Attacking is a promising area, but we've seen effects like Raid, Boast, Battalion and Pack Tactics before so it has been well mined and it seems hard to make a hunt mechanic that would feel particularly like a hunt and not just like every other attacking based mechanic.
Dealing damage we've seen on Bloodthirst and Spectacle, which focus on hitting players, and Enrage, which wants you to hit your own creatures. However, there seems to be a promising space for a mechanic that just wants you to deal a high damage amount of damage in a turn. It would be something different, and has a nice focus on the 'killing things' element while being less sacrifice and graveyards and no worries about what your opponent is playing- creatures, planeswalkers, players. Everyone can get in on the hunt and everything is on the menu.
So I thought of three possible versions of a mechanic like this.
The simplest version is Hunt — If sources you control dealt 5 or more damage this turn, [effect]
Straightforward and flexible, it gets the job done without any fuss.
some possible designs Ambush Scorpion
Creature- Scorpion (U)
Deathtouch Hunt — When Ambush Scorpion dies, if sources you control dealt 5 or more damage this turn, target opponent may sacrifice a creature. If they don’t, they discard a card.
3/2
Cryptic Megaraptor
Creature- Dinosaur (R)
Ward Hunt — When Cryptic Megaraptor enters the battlefield, if sources you control dealt 5 or more damage this turn, you may have it fight target creature.
5/4
-
Okay, but what if we made a little more splashy? Something to capture a little more of the process. If we want players to feel like they are going on the hunt perhaps it shouldn't just be a one-and-done, all about the reward. The hunt is an undertaking where you might have to prepare for the long haul. What if going on the hunt stuck around then, what if it was something you kept going at. Perhaps you could use the day/night mechanic technology then, but something just for you.
Predatory (When this creature enters the battlefield, if you’re not stalking or on the hunt, go stalking.)
STALKING
(tracking card token)
At the beginning of your endstep, if sources you control dealt 5 or more damage this turn, go on the hunt next turn.
// THE HUNT
(tracking card token)
At the beginning of your endstep, if sources you control dealt 3 or less damage this turn, go stalking next turn.
Gotta keep up your attack, or you'll lose your quarry!
Ambush Scorpion v2
Creature- Scorpion (U)
Deathtouch
Predatory (When this creature enters the battlefield, if you’re not stalking or on the hunt, go stalking.)
Whenever Ambush Scorpion attacks, if you’re on the hunt, target opponent may sacrifice a creature. If they don’t, they discard a card.
3/2
Cryptic Megaraptor v2
Creature- Dinosaur (R)
Predatory (When this creature enters the battlefield, if you’re not stalking or on the hunt, go stalking.)
As long as you’re on the hunt, Cryptic Megaraptor has ward :4mana:. : Cryptic Megaraptor gains your choice of deathtouch, trample, or haste until end of turn.
5/4
-
Maybe. But when does the hunt end? When do you go for the kill? When the game ends? If I deal a whole bunch of damage, perhaps kill some creatures, should that be the end? What if the rewards were tied more to completing your hunt, like in the first version, rather than just keeping it going? Hmmm...
The final version I came up with was:
Stalking (When this creature enters the battlefield, go on the hunt if you’re not already.)
THE HUNT
(tracking card token)
At the beginning of your endstep, if sources you control dealt 6 or more damage this turn, you may complete your hunt.
Going on a hunt is an investment that might take a couple of turns or more. But you might well also go on multiple hunts a game.
Ambush Scorpion v3
Creature- Scorpion (U)
Deathtouch
Stalking (When this creature enters the battlefield, go on the hunt if you’re not already.)
Whenever you complete a hunt, target opponent may sacrifice a creature. If they don’t, they discard a card.
3/2
Cryptic Megaraptor v2
Creature- Dinosaur (R)
Stalking (When this creature enters the battlefield, go on the hunt if you’re not already.)
As long as you’re on the hunt, Cryptic Megaraptor has ward .
Whenever you complete a hunt, put a +1/+1 counter on Cryptic Megaraptor
5/4
-
The names and numbers of all these version are obviously all up in the air, just a first take. One other consideration which goes across all three versions is whether it should count all damage, or just damage from creatures. All damage is flexible allowing for multiple archetypes and different deckbuilding options, and after all, you can be a crafty hunter, using whatever tools you have available. But if you just counted creatures it might feel more like a hunt, with no magic blasting allowed, plenty of good ol' brawling.
I really like the Ikoria treatment. It's one of the ones just made for this set, right? They didn't use it before on the Godzilla cards or something else I managed to forget, did they?
Pretty sure this is supposed to be the 'comic book' style frames from Ikoria. e.g.
Some theme related to sleeping and dreaming is a good prediction.
Dragon tribal seems possible, maybe as a minor theme though.
Adventures and food seem very likely to return. Biggest reason I could see for either or both to be excluded is new mechanics taking up space.
I think DFCs are possible. Transformation is a major recurring element in fairytales and WotC has shown a willingness to use DFCs more recently.
The big 'Quest' mechanic that was tried during original Eldraine seems like a plausible include this time if they managed to get it to the right place.
Some kind of keyword for knights also seems possible. They considered it in original ELD but this time I doubt they will return Adamant so it might be more highly considered.
Maybe something related to artifacts and/or enchantments.
Sagas could also be here this time.
No, it's there so it's *own* Encore ability works. So it can Encore itself from the grave.
But also, yeah, it letting Encore other legendaries is not irrelevant.
It's there so it's own Encore ability works.
Also, damn, Zhulodok is big greed payoff. Seems fun.
So, Eriette and Ashiok sure looking likely to be the main villains of this set.
I'm assuming Will and Rowan and questing to help restore the courts of Eldraine after...everything that went down in MoM.
Well, WotC clearly wants the Secret Lairs to be designed and perceived as fun collectibles with unique arts more so than valuable reprints. Make of that what you will.
I did consider that you could break it up to be able to use for instants and sorceries and other options. I do like streamlining it a little complexity wise with how it's used though, and I think it functions best on creatures with can flavourfully do some hunting and stick around to enable the hunt and then reap rewards.
I don't want to have too many effects on hunt creatures that reward you being on the hunt though, because that incentivizes you to not actually complete it, whereas the point is supposed to be to go hunting and complete it. The prey creatures wouldn't want to hunt to complete because they are on the menu, this does not end well for them.
Thanks!
Across all the many planes that were featured in MoM, there's a lot of things to include that people might wonder about. There was always going to a number of things left out. We'll see slivers again sometime.
Silvers are by design parasitic and need a minimum bar of support to make them work, versus all the other stuff that they can throw into a set from different worlds, slivers are probably more trouble than they are worth.
The most obvious point was that hunting should involve attacking, dealing damage and/or killing creatures.
Creatures dying is in mtg the territory of morbid and effects with similar themes around decay and necromancy. If I allow a hunt mechanic to care about any creatures dying it will promote sacrificing your own creatures a lot which doesn't feel right, but if it's just your opponents that makes the mechanic harder to build around and generally more unreliable when you do know how many creatures your opponent is playing.
Attacking is a promising area, but we've seen effects like Raid, Boast, Battalion and Pack Tactics before so it has been well mined and it seems hard to make a hunt mechanic that would feel particularly like a hunt and not just like every other attacking based mechanic.
Dealing damage we've seen on Bloodthirst and Spectacle, which focus on hitting players, and Enrage, which wants you to hit your own creatures. However, there seems to be a promising space for a mechanic that just wants you to deal a high damage amount of damage in a turn. It would be something different, and has a nice focus on the 'killing things' element while being less sacrifice and graveyards and no worries about what your opponent is playing- creatures, planeswalkers, players. Everyone can get in on the hunt and everything is on the menu.
So I thought of three possible versions of a mechanic like this.
The simplest version is
Hunt — If sources you control dealt 5 or more damage this turn, [effect]
Straightforward and flexible, it gets the job done without any fuss.
some possible designs
Ambush Scorpion
Creature- Scorpion (U)
Deathtouch
Hunt — When Ambush Scorpion dies, if sources you control dealt 5 or more damage this turn, target opponent may sacrifice a creature. If they don’t, they discard a card.
3/2
Cryptic Megaraptor
Creature- Dinosaur (R)
Ward
Hunt — When Cryptic Megaraptor enters the battlefield, if sources you control dealt 5 or more damage this turn, you may have it fight target creature.
5/4
-
Okay, but what if we made a little more splashy? Something to capture a little more of the process. If we want players to feel like they are going on the hunt perhaps it shouldn't just be a one-and-done, all about the reward. The hunt is an undertaking where you might have to prepare for the long haul. What if going on the hunt stuck around then, what if it was something you kept going at. Perhaps you could use the day/night mechanic technology then, but something just for you.
Predatory (When this creature enters the battlefield, if you’re not stalking or on the hunt, go stalking.)
STALKING
(tracking card token)
At the beginning of your endstep, if sources you control dealt 5 or more damage this turn, go on the hunt next turn.
//
THE HUNT
(tracking card token)
At the beginning of your endstep, if sources you control dealt 3 or less damage this turn, go stalking next turn.
Gotta keep up your attack, or you'll lose your quarry!
Ambush Scorpion v2
Creature- Scorpion (U)
Deathtouch
Predatory (When this creature enters the battlefield, if you’re not stalking or on the hunt, go stalking.)
Whenever Ambush Scorpion attacks, if you’re on the hunt, target opponent may sacrifice a creature. If they don’t, they discard a card.
3/2
Cryptic Megaraptor v2
Creature- Dinosaur (R)
Predatory (When this creature enters the battlefield, if you’re not stalking or on the hunt, go stalking.)
As long as you’re on the hunt, Cryptic Megaraptor has ward :4mana:.
5/4
-
Maybe. But when does the hunt end? When do you go for the kill? When the game ends? If I deal a whole bunch of damage, perhaps kill some creatures, should that be the end? What if the rewards were tied more to completing your hunt, like in the first version, rather than just keeping it going? Hmmm...
The final version I came up with was:
Stalking (When this creature enters the battlefield, go on the hunt if you’re not already.)
THE HUNT
(tracking card token)
At the beginning of your endstep, if sources you control dealt 6 or more damage this turn, you may complete your hunt.
Going on a hunt is an investment that might take a couple of turns or more. But you might well also go on multiple hunts a game.
Ambush Scorpion v3
Creature- Scorpion (U)
Deathtouch
Stalking (When this creature enters the battlefield, go on the hunt if you’re not already.)
Whenever you complete a hunt, target opponent may sacrifice a creature. If they don’t, they discard a card.
3/2
Cryptic Megaraptor v2
Creature- Dinosaur (R)
Stalking (When this creature enters the battlefield, go on the hunt if you’re not already.)
As long as you’re on the hunt, Cryptic Megaraptor has ward
Whenever you complete a hunt, put a +1/+1 counter on Cryptic Megaraptor
5/4
-
The names and numbers of all these version are obviously all up in the air, just a first take. One other consideration which goes across all three versions is whether it should count all damage, or just damage from creatures. All damage is flexible allowing for multiple archetypes and different deckbuilding options, and after all, you can be a crafty hunter, using whatever tools you have available. But if you just counted creatures it might feel more like a hunt, with no magic blasting allowed, plenty of good ol' brawling.
What do you all think?
Thanks for reading!
Pretty sure this is supposed to be the 'comic book' style frames from Ikoria. e.g.