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  • posted a message on 31 new digital-only cards for upcoming Jumpstart : Historic Horizon
    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from DJK3654 »

    This does not mean statements from MaRo about the colour pie are not important.

    But they can be more easily dismissed when the one saying them has been highly contradictory. The same man that touted "our playtest team will allow a more balanced Standard" and then we get Eldraine, Ikoria, companions, Oko, Uro, and a year of sets with constant overpowered cards that warped near every format.

    Sorry, but if a person I don't trust tells me that it's "raining outside" and even if I can hear the rain hit the house I'm still looking outside out of sheer distrust.

    There is no MtG colour pie outside of WotC. If people from WotC's statements on the colour pie aren't meaningful, nothing is. They control the game; the colour pie exists in the game. They aren't just interpreting the colour pie, they decide it.
    We can question their reasoning, their consistency, and how well the game plays with it, but we can't just say they are plainly wrong or ignore them. If you don't like baseball and think they should change the rules you wouldn't argue the MLB is wrong about the rules of baseball. The rules of baseball will always be whatever rules people follow when playing baseball.

    White can get effects that draw cards for doing white things if they only draw one card per turn.

    Life gain and small creatures were the "white things" it was doing, the once per turn thing was slapped on needlessly.

    It was slapped on to limit white card draw, fitting with the *need* to preserve White's weaknesses.


    White wasn't even getting draw all that commonly for a restriction to be necessary.

    Why do you think white wasn't getting draw all that commonly?


    Don't you find it weird they slapped on that clause while they print stuff like The Great Henge? Where's the "green can get effects that draw cards for doing green things if they only draw one card per turn?" What's so special about white that it needs to be handicapped? That's the issue. No other color gets that strange stipulation tacked on.

    No other colour has the same weaknesses as white. Because, get this, the different colours are supposed to be different.
    Green's draw, as well as green's creature removal effects, are tied to its creatures, because that's green's weakness. Green isn't supposed to be weak at card draw, it's supposed to be weak at building decks with lower creature counts. White is supposed to be weak at card draw. Green's weakness does affect its card draw abilities, but not as much as white's. Naturally then, white has harsher restrictions on its card draw effects to stop it drawing too many cards too efficiently.

    White is supposed to be behind on card draw,

    Neither was green or red, but we've seen how the first is insane at it now and the later has its own version of draw that's great in its own ways while white.....sometimes gets to do it once a turn, but only if Daddy says yes.

    Green is second best at card draw tied with Black. It is not supposed to be weak a card draw. It is supposed to be not as good as blue, which is a line that has become rather blurred with some recent cards pushing things, but it was never supposed to be bad. Red is supposed to be significantly worse, but it's still only second worst, card draw is not supposed to be red's primary weakness, unlike white.

    That's why they've been pushing a bunch of different unique card draw effects for white to try new things that could fit into white without just letting it draw cards whenever.

    Letting it draw cards whenever? It's not like white was getting "at the beginning of your draw step draw an extra card" it was "if you gain life/small creature ETB pay mana to draw a card." Practically all of white's constant draw you had to pay to do it. Mentor was 1 mana, Bishop and Dawn of Hope was 2 mana,

    Yes, because even before the recent decision on once per turn and such, WotC was trying to limit white card draw. It was decided, however, that those limitations were not good enough.
    The problem with cards like Mentor of the Meek was that they are easy enough for white to just slot right in that they run a dangerous line between being good enough to actually see play and be fun, and making white too good at card draw.


    Also, "unique effects"? Artifact/enchantment ETB once a turn is not unique. Wait, sorry it is unique because it they slapped on a unique restriction.

    Yes.


    The other draw it's been getting is only if your opponent does stuff to you/your permanents or does some stuff too often, both seen very little so far.

    Also 'each player draws'. MaRo has also said more is to come.

    White can care about small creatures. That's not the issue.

    Clearly it is if something like Mentor of the Meek or Bygone Bishop is now "wrong". Mentor was just seen in Standard up until two years ago and somehow in that brief a time it went from acceptable to "color pie break", doesn't that sound a little absurd? It's not even that good of a card and now it's "wrong." It's baffling.

    Weenie decks are a staple of white. Effects that allow you to draw cards but only if you play a bunch of weenies is not much of a restriction for white. Just as if green were supposed to be bad at card draw it wouldn't be much of a restriction for green to play a bunch of creatures for cards like the Great Henge. As you said, green is quite good at card draw despite such restrictions, and if anything, the restrictions on green card draw have been a tad weak of late. WotC does not want white to be anything like that. Because, yeah, duh.

    There doesn't necessarily need to be assigned single colours for every possible effect.

    Assigning colors to certain actions is literally what the color pie is about.

    'Destroy target permanent' is restricted to green-black or black-white. No single colour gets that effect. There is no reason 'whenever you gain life, draw a card' or what have you needs to be in a single colour either. White can get such effects with the once per turn limitation. If you want it unrestrcited, add another colour. That's literally what the colour pie is about— limitations that you can mitigate by adding colours.

    Blue being broken in the early magic and green being too pushed in recent sets are both *terrible* reasons why it's okay to put effects into white.

    Draw effects in the things that white is good at? Yes. Why is that such an issue?

    Taking other things being broken as a justification for how to balance something is a highway straight to making even more broken things.
    'My window and my chair are already broken, so I might as well smash a big hole in my wall' is not logical.


    Blue draws card because it can, green draws cards if you play Magic, black draws at the cost of life, and red gets impulse draw, but white.....can't have draw for doing some of the stuff its good at because that would be bad if all five colors got consistent rules with its draw? No, only one gets a "once a turn" clause just because it was a naughty child this year and gets coal for Christmas.

    Only black is required to sacrifice things (not just life btw) to draw cards, only green is required to link all its card draw to creatures, only red is required to play the cards it draws straight away.
    What's your point?
    White doesn't have to sacrifice things, or link it to creatures, or play its cards straight away when it draws cards.
    It has some of the harshest restrictions, yes, but it's supposed to.


    Power balance is also not on the only consideration with the colour pie. There's always a question of feel. The colours don't exist purely for balance reasons, after all, they are supposed to have a certain style. You could just put a bunch of overcosted divinations and harmonizes into white and it still be the worst colour in card draw, but would that be fun? Would it feel like white can't draw cards in the same way as other colours, or would it just feel like white card draw is just *****ty? Would people want to play those cards in the first place, even if maybe it made sense to include some because they were better than nothing, would people enjoy it?

    I'm not even really sure what you're saying here. People wouldn't play a white Harmonize (which by the way was a color shift and wasn't supposed to be normalized, but now green it's so common in green you expect it) because they may not enjoy it? I'm just gonna take a shot in the dark and say because they play it in green they might like it in a color that doesn't have decent draw where the best draw spell also gives your opponents cards.

    I specifically said *overcosted*. And I meant, like, significantly.
    The point was white is supposed to be worst at card draw and these restrictions WotC has been trying out are designed to give it playable fun card draw cards that also don't allow it to draw cards too easily.

    Now look at the card draw effects WotC has been giving to white. The only once per turn version, for instance, requires you to put time and effort into triggering the ability each turn over several turns to really load up on cards, so the card draw has limitations, but those limitations also feel very white, planning and patience and such, the cards don't have to be bad, especially if the cards have other utility, and it's fun to play because you can work with its weakness.
    That's why those effects are being tried out, and it's why I think those are good ideas.

    And drawing cards from life gain and small creatures were the time/effort, the limitations were life gain isn't the greatest and small creatures are easy to get rid of, but I guess we need to nerf white because....something something "new color pie" something something dark side.

    Because gaining life and playing small creatures are things white does really well and does all the time and so aren't very big restrictions. They would be appropriate restrictions if, like black and green, white was supposed to be good at card draw but just not the best, but white is supposed to be worst.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 31 new digital-only cards for upcoming Jumpstart : Historic Horizon
    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from zahlinator »
    Maro has stated multiple times, that Mentor of the Meek and Dawn of Hope are considered color pie breaks too.

    And Maro stated that Magic would never have crossovers and yet here we are with three having happened already and another two that we know of on the way. Believe it or not, but Maro is not the final word when it comes to Magic and he makes plenty of mistakes within Magic. He says a lot of things that are contradictory.

    This does not mean statements from MaRo about the colour pie are not important.


    White drawing cards from life gain or small creatures is no more a color pie break as red dealing direct damage or blue having efficient small creatures.

    Yes it is.
    White can get effects that draw cards for doing white things if they only draw one card per turn. That is the recently established rule that WotC (and not just Mark Rosewater) decided on.
    It is always possible this could change, it is new after all, but it is definitely still wrong to suggest Mentor of the Meek-esque cards are in colour pie even if theoretically they could be brought back in for some reason.


    If drawing by life gain and small creatures is such a problem perhaps that might be why white is so behind when it comes to card draw and general power.

    White is supposed to be behind on card draw, so giving white more card draw can't just be slapping card draw in there. That's why they've been pushing a bunch of different unique card draw effects for white to try new things that could fit into white without just letting it draw cards whenever.


    If green can care about large creatures why can't white care about small creatures?

    White can care about small creatures. That's not the issue.


    If white isn't the color caring about life gain to draw cards then should be? Which color is it appropriate for?

    There doesn't necessarily need to be assigned single colours for every possible effect. Some effects are multicolour only or shared by colours each doing it a little bit. Regardless, in this case, the answer is actually white—just as long as it's only once per turn.


    Back in the day blue could do everything in the name of the color pie, nowadays outside of countering spells green can do basically anything. Pretty sure we can give white life gain/small creature draw.

    Blue being broken in the early magic and green being too pushed in recent sets are both *terrible* reasons why it's okay to put effects into white.
    Power balance is also not on the only consideration with the colour pie. There's always a question of feel. The colours don't exist purely for balance reasons, after all, they are supposed to have a certain style. You could just put a bunch of overcosted divinations and harmonizes into white and it still be the worst colour in card draw, but would that be fun? Would it feel like white can't draw cards in the same way as other colours, or would it just feel like white card draw is just *****ty? Would people want to play those cards in the first place, even if maybe it made sense to include some because they were better than nothing, would people enjoy it?
    Now look at the card draw effects WotC has been giving to white. The only once per turn version, for instance, requires you to put time and effort into triggering the ability each turn over several turns to really load up on cards, so the card draw has limitations, but those limitations also feel very white, planning and patience and such, the cards don't have to be bad, especially if the cards have other utility, and it's fun to play because you can work with its weakness.
    That's why those effects are being tried out, and it's why I think those are good ideas.

    -
    On the subject of digital-only cards, I'm inclined to say I dislike the idea. I can see how in this case they have reasoning as to why it might not be that big of a deal as these cards are probably designed for jumpstart and casual play, but the more WotC does it the more likely cards are to become sought-after for paper players, and even if they aren't competitive, people will want them anyway. I do also dislike the idea of digital becoming potentially increasingly different from paper play with different formats, cards, who knows what else. There's a limit there this might be straying into.
    That said, hopefully, if they do indeed do this, these cards will receive paper printings sometime in the near future after digital release in much the same way the Universes Beyond cards have been marked to see paper printings. After how Secret Lairs and Universes Beyond went down, if that idea isn't something they at least already have in mind as a strong possibility, I would be surprised.
    Assuming let's say then that they do that, that does mean I couldn't say I hate this idea like I might otherwise, but I'm still not sure if I like it.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [AFR] Ingenious Smith— Amazonian preview
    "This ability triggers only once each turn" is a fantastic clause to prevent combos, but they are putting it on already mediocre cards

    If this could get counters for every artifact it would be crazy.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [AFR] "Lurking Roper"— Magic Noobz preview
    I like this design. Captures some of the essence of the creature and looks like a fun build around.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [AFR] Gretchen Titchwillow— Spelltable preview
    Quote from FunkyDragon »
    Quote from HighHolder »
    Drawing a card is always better than scrying, always. With her abilities you could draw and then drop a land from your hand.
    which is essentially doing thrasios ability x2
    But scrying and drawing is far better than blind drawing. Do you forget that Thrasios does both?

    This card is more specifically costed, can't be reduced as much, doesn't partner to add other colors, and doesn't scry. It's a fair or fixed version.

    This card also allows you to drop any land though and drop it untapped, while Thrasios will only drop a land if it's the top card and it's tapped.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [AFR] Werewolf Pack Leader— Joe Manganiello preview
    Quote from Igzex »
    ...Not the kind of girl you'd bring home. Now to a standard tournament, that's a different story.

    Excuse you, definitely the kind of girl I'd bring home. Where's your sense of adventure?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [AFR] Mothership 6/24— Dungeons
    I imagine two of the main reasons they only made three dungeons are because it's harder to balance the more dungeons you add both in terms of the power level of venture cards and the dungeons themselves relative to each other, and secondly because the more dungeons you add the more complex all the venture cards become with different possible choices and outcomes.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Burning Aurora & Tactical Filters
    Your lands seem too good to me compared to basic lands. The best comparison would be the pathway lands. Compared to these, these have basic landtypes, can tap for colorless and don't have to choose between providing one color of the other. The only downside being these have a restriction on the producing the off-color mana, but it's a pretty light restriction and could be an advantage if you don't have enough mana sources of the off-color.

    I also agree w others that Burning Aurora is not red. Red could do a version of this with life payments though.
    Posted in: Custom Card Creation
  • posted a message on [MH2] Good luck High Five -- Nettlecyst
    Every single living weapon is based of a body part, or the underlying skeleton. What body part is this...

    Ankylosaur club?
    Dinosaurs are canon in magic so...
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Two Guild Mechanics
    Quote from Kryptnyt »
    I think when the Audience dies, you should gain life equal to its power. You're not putting a show on for free, right? Get paid.

    In addition to what rowanalpha said, I'd note that life gain is not in mono red.
    Posted in: Custom Card Creation
  • posted a message on [STX] Daemogoth Titan and Containment Breach— r/MagicArena previews
    I just noticed there's actually a scale human in the picture.

    Yes, it's BIG.

    Weirdly, it also looks very peaceful. Like it is carefully making its way through the forest, taking care to not topple any trees.

    Well it is a green demon Smile
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [STX] Devastating Mastery and Secret Rendezvous Aus Gamers Preview
    https://www.ausgamers.com/news/read/3634575/magic-the-gatherings-strixhaven-expansion-to-bring-the-devastation-and-more

    Devastating Mastery 2 mana white mana white mana white mana white mana
    Sorcery (R)
    You may pay 2 mana white mana white mana rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
    If the 2 mana white mana white mana cost was paid, an opponent chooses up to two nonland permanents they control and returns them to their owner's hand.
    Destroy all nonland permanents.

    Secret Rendezvous 1 mana white mana white mana
    Sorcery (U)
    You and target opponent each draw three cards.

    Pretty solid looking planar cleansing variant. And there's the white card draw spell. Kinda meh, but the art on that card....hmmmmm…..
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [STX] Heated Debate— TaaliaVess preview
    Quote from Dontrike »
    That flavor text is basically "while you were getting girls I was studying the blade."

    Nothing personnel kid.

    Quote from Guesswork »
    "We gimped your hexproof."

    "Jerks!"

    "Fine, we gimped it again. Pray we don't gimp it any further."

    "..."

    I guess this is partly why they kept hexproof.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [STX] Lorehold Excavation— NizzahonMagic preview
    I can't believe how quickly we are going from 'omg WotC hates white?!?!? Why won't they just give white more effects???' to 'omg WotC is just giving white everything now???'
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [STX] Relic Sloth— Carolyn Kavanagh preview
    Giant ground sloths represent!
    Kinda weird looking compared to actual ground sloths though.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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