Mana Leak despite looking good for the long game feels terrible if you have to hold it, as once they can play around it and pay the 3 it becomes quite hampered.
Remand is definitely a Tempo card, however I feel like most blue decks feel fine remanding something that costs > half their available mana, which gives you the time you want and replaces itself.
I play both and with Snapcaster giving you extra virtual copies you will usually have what you need at the right time.
That's the thing. Remand doesn't replace itself. A random card off the top of your deck is statistically unlikely to be as useful as another counter or whatever threat you just kindly passed back to your opponent to play again.
I personally think Negate and Condescend are way underplayed. In general, non-creature spells are much more scary than creature spells; hence Negate. And Condescend because scry 2 is often better (way better if you are scrying 2 unneeded lands to the bottom) than draw 1.
Edit: I just literally won a game online because an opponent only had a Remand, allowing me to cast Threads of Disloyalty on his 5/6 Tarmogoyf again that same turn, then bash him to death. His wasn't even a combo or a tempo deck either. To be fair, Mana Leak wouldn't have helped him either. Negate, however, would have likely won him the game. Truly underplayed.....
Negate is a sideboard card imo, as is Threads of Disloyalty most of the time, so in that scenario it would have likely come from the sideboard?
Mana Leak despite looking good for the long game feels terrible if you have to hold it, as once they can play around it and pay the 3 it becomes quite hampered.
Remand is definitely a Tempo card, however I feel like most blue decks feel fine remanding something that costs > half their available mana, which gives you the time you want and replaces itself.
I play both and with Snapcaster giving you extra virtual copies you will usually have what you need at the right time.
So I ended up doing pretty averagely at the PTQ, after my first loss it went downhill from there. I'll try recap what I can, it was 7 Rounds of Swiss before cutting to top 8.
Round 1: Scapeshift 2-0
Didn't recognise my opponent, so didn't know what he was on. I remember the hand was something like Land, Land, Mana Leak, Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Lightning Bolt, Snapcaster Mage which was just GG against Scapeshift.
Game 2 was pretty standard, chipped away with a Spellstutter and had all the answers when he went all in for the combo.
Spellstutter is INSANE in this matchup. This was definitely a great matchup for us, and I just sat back holding up Spellstutter the whole time and there was nothing he could do, chipping away with snaps and bolts. Not gonna go into detail
Round 4: RWB Burn 0-2
Game 1: He was on the play, and I think my hand was quite modest for this matchup. I had an agressive hand which didn't do much against him, couldn't race.
Game 2: This game was terrible, I kept a 2 lander and didn't see another land for at least 10 turns, even with his Goblin Guide coming in, luck was not on my side here
Round 5: UR Tempo Twin - Draw
Game 1: This guy plays at my LGS, and he is known for playing Mono Blue tron so this is what I expected. Kept a hand which was burn heavy without much permission and I didn't have an answer for t4 Splinter Twin on an Exarch.
Game 2: Had to mull to 5 I think but I took this game. Things went quite well with my draws and I kept pressure on him with a Snapcaster Mage which ended up going most of the way.
Game 3: This was grindy, and we ended up going to time. I made a misplay however, we were at time for the round and it was my turn, which was turn 2 I believe, which meant I had one more turn after this to seal the deal. I had 5 mana untapped, with a Vendilion Clique and Mutavault in my hand. For some reason I made the stupid mistake of trying to bluff something instead of playing the Mutavault which would let me play the Clique again on the same turn after he remanded it, if I had done this he would have died on the backswing. GRRR
Round 6: Melira Pod - 0-2
At this point I was feeling pretty badly and it reflected in my playing. I don't really remember this round, except G1 I was stuck on 2 lands and kept drawing countermagic which was useless at that point. G2 I deserved the loss because I kept a hand without a way to stop t2 Birthing Pod, this is a huge NO-NO! I thought the Ratchet Bomb would solve the pod, but with 3 Permanents at 3 CMC, 2 being Kitchen Finks it felt hopeless either way.
I did feel better after hearing he had been playing Pod for years and ended up in the Finals
Round 7: 4C Gifts - 2-0
This was quite an easy matchup, I wasn't playing tightly as I was out of contention for top8 but still steamrolled him both games.
Overall I feel like this deck is really good. I did dodge BGx even though everywhere I looked people seemed to be playing it, which was nice, however I felt like my misplay in Round 5 basically ended my tournament right there. I am going to keep tuning this list even though I feel like it is quite tight, and eventually master it, as I feel like it has such good game against most things. I did play Scion of Oona over Delver, due to it being a larger tournament I wanted the consistency. I am still unsure as to whether Delver is better, I guess time will tell.
Don't bother with Electromancer or Phoenix, Spellstutter and Vendilion Clique are just better. 3 cmc counterspells seem too high also, the aim is to tempo them out, you want to slow them down and disrupt their game plan, not necessarily hard counter and control them unless that is the best approach to take at the time.
Mutavault seems pointless at 2, either 0 or 4, and without spellstuttrr and scion around they become quite average.
I posted my decklist a few posts ago, have been doing quite well with it, feel free to give it a try. Sorry if the formatting is bad im on my phone
Edit: Just realised you have no Remand? Probably one of the strongest counterspells in the deck, buying a turn and cantripping in a tempo strategy is nothing to scoff at.
Was interested in what you guys think a good sideboard should look like expecting the following meta: UWR/Jund (Mainly), Twin/Pod/Affinity and Tron (both colours), then rest of the meta i'm not too sure about.
That makes sense tbh. How have you found Keranos? Seems interesting considering testing 1 in the sideboard.
Also going to test Scion over Delver, Hoogland recommends it going into a larger event as flipping can be inconsistent especially post board if we bring in enchants/artifacts etc. Trying to prepare for a PTQ in a few weeks, will be expecting alot of UWR/Affinity, probably jund and twin also.
EDIT: Some pictures in the primer would be awesome. Should try get a banner made
A SB guide for each matchup using.the stock list would be amazing. I can atttempt to help if.needed
I feel like the reason people aren't posting is maybe because it isn't in established like the YP version?
I just returned to the SSS version this last week as I prefer it to the YP version mainly because I dislike tapping out. I feel like having the entire deck aside from a Sword at instant speed is awesome. How are you finding 22 Lands? Sometimes I feel like we play too many, however I only have 5 fetches currently so not sure how big a difference it makes. It both floods and makes delver harder to flip.
Hey guys, first time posting here.
Currently building this deck on paper in preparation for an upcoming PTQ in July.
Am hoping to tune up my list in time, will post what I am working with soon, currently sitting in class so can't access it.
It seems as if Vendilion Clique has fallen out of favour recently? What is the reason for this, is it because of the cost, and the fact that it's best matchups are the ones that are already in our favour? I do find that i'd rather hold mine sometimes, so that I can use that 3 mana differently, but I still feel like having at least one or two in the 75 seems correct.
Also alot of the lists aren't running the full set of fetchlands, which I am assuming is down to budget reasons, however this is becoming more and more common and seems like it makes Grim Lavamancer worse. Is 7-8 fetches the correct amount?
Negate is a sideboard card imo, as is Threads of Disloyalty most of the time, so in that scenario it would have likely come from the sideboard?
Remand is definitely a Tempo card, however I feel like most blue decks feel fine remanding something that costs > half their available mana, which gives you the time you want and replaces itself.
I play both and with Snapcaster giving you extra virtual copies you will usually have what you need at the right time.
Round 1: Scapeshift 2-0
Didn't recognise my opponent, so didn't know what he was on. I remember the hand was something like Land, Land, Mana Leak, Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Lightning Bolt, Snapcaster Mage which was just GG against Scapeshift.
Game 2 was pretty standard, chipped away with a Spellstutter and had all the answers when he went all in for the combo.
Round 2: Scapeshift 2-1
Didn't recognise this guy either, Game 1 was terrible for me, mana screwed I ended up dying from 2 Sakura-Tribe Elder coming in for 2 each turn
Game 2 - Blood Moon t3 followed by Vendilion Clique and Sword of Fire and Ice. GG
Game 3 - Don't Remember
Round 3: Living End 2-0
Spellstutter is INSANE in this matchup. This was definitely a great matchup for us, and I just sat back holding up Spellstutter the whole time and there was nothing he could do, chipping away with snaps and bolts. Not gonna go into detail
Round 4: RWB Burn 0-2
Game 1: He was on the play, and I think my hand was quite modest for this matchup. I had an agressive hand which didn't do much against him, couldn't race.
Game 2: This game was terrible, I kept a 2 lander and didn't see another land for at least 10 turns, even with his Goblin Guide coming in, luck was not on my side here
Round 5: UR Tempo Twin - Draw
Game 1: This guy plays at my LGS, and he is known for playing Mono Blue tron so this is what I expected. Kept a hand which was burn heavy without much permission and I didn't have an answer for t4 Splinter Twin on an Exarch.
Game 2: Had to mull to 5 I think but I took this game. Things went quite well with my draws and I kept pressure on him with a Snapcaster Mage which ended up going most of the way.
Game 3: This was grindy, and we ended up going to time. I made a misplay however, we were at time for the round and it was my turn, which was turn 2 I believe, which meant I had one more turn after this to seal the deal. I had 5 mana untapped, with a Vendilion Clique and Mutavault in my hand. For some reason I made the stupid mistake of trying to bluff something instead of playing the Mutavault which would let me play the Clique again on the same turn after he remanded it, if I had done this he would have died on the backswing. GRRR
Round 6: Melira Pod - 0-2
At this point I was feeling pretty badly and it reflected in my playing. I don't really remember this round, except G1 I was stuck on 2 lands and kept drawing countermagic which was useless at that point. G2 I deserved the loss because I kept a hand without a way to stop t2 Birthing Pod, this is a huge NO-NO! I thought the Ratchet Bomb would solve the pod, but with 3 Permanents at 3 CMC, 2 being Kitchen Finks it felt hopeless either way.
I did feel better after hearing he had been playing Pod for years and ended up in the Finals
Round 7: 4C Gifts - 2-0
This was quite an easy matchup, I wasn't playing tightly as I was out of contention for top8 but still steamrolled him both games.
Overall I feel like this deck is really good. I did dodge BGx even though everywhere I looked people seemed to be playing it, which was nice, however I felt like my misplay in Round 5 basically ended my tournament right there. I am going to keep tuning this list even though I feel like it is quite tight, and eventually master it, as I feel like it has such good game against most things. I did play Scion of Oona over Delver, due to it being a larger tournament I wanted the consistency. I am still unsure as to whether Delver is better, I guess time will tell.
That's all from me!
Mutavault seems pointless at 2, either 0 or 4, and without spellstuttrr and scion around they become quite average.
I posted my decklist a few posts ago, have been doing quite well with it, feel free to give it a try. Sorry if the formatting is bad im on my phone
Edit: Just realised you have no Remand? Probably one of the strongest counterspells in the deck, buying a turn and cantripping in a tempo strategy is nothing to scoff at.
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Scion of Oona
1 Burst Lightning
1 Electrolyze
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Turn // Burn
1 Vapor Snag
1 Gut Shot
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
Was interested in what you guys think a good sideboard should look like expecting the following meta: UWR/Jund (Mainly), Twin/Pod/Affinity and Tron (both colours), then rest of the meta i'm not too sure about.
So far I am settled on:
Sideboard
2x Blood Moon
1x Dismember
1x Counterflux
1x Ratchet Bomb
2x Negate
2x Spellskite
1x Batterskull
Cheers!
Quickling
I feel like goblin guide is bad because it.makes your mana leaks quite a bit worse, and keeps them drawing threats which we need to deal with.
Also very umsure about magma spray MD. You don`t wanrt dead cards, it cant go to the face like pillar can.
Also going to test Scion over Delver, Hoogland recommends it going into a larger event as flipping can be inconsistent especially post board if we bring in enchants/artifacts etc. Trying to prepare for a PTQ in a few weeks, will be expecting alot of UWR/Affinity, probably jund and twin also.
EDIT: Some pictures in the primer would be awesome. Should try get a banner made
A SB guide for each matchup using.the stock list would be amazing. I can atttempt to help if.needed
I feel like the reason people aren't posting is maybe because it isn't in established like the YP version?
I just returned to the SSS version this last week as I prefer it to the YP version mainly because I dislike tapping out. I feel like having the entire deck aside from a Sword at instant speed is awesome. How are you finding 22 Lands? Sometimes I feel like we play too many, however I only have 5 fetches currently so not sure how big a difference it makes. It both floods and makes delver harder to flip.
Like that you also have the SSS version, I also enjoy playing that, trying to decide which is better.
Think i'm gonna stick with one clique mainboard, and see how it works out.
Been doing well on Cockatrice though, the deck feels like it has alot of game against everything.
Currently building this deck on paper in preparation for an upcoming PTQ in July.
Am hoping to tune up my list in time, will post what I am working with soon, currently sitting in class so can't access it.
It seems as if Vendilion Clique has fallen out of favour recently? What is the reason for this, is it because of the cost, and the fact that it's best matchups are the ones that are already in our favour? I do find that i'd rather hold mine sometimes, so that I can use that 3 mana differently, but I still feel like having at least one or two in the 75 seems correct.
Also alot of the lists aren't running the full set of fetchlands, which I am assuming is down to budget reasons, however this is becoming more and more common and seems like it makes Grim Lavamancer worse. Is 7-8 fetches the correct amount?
Cheers in advance