I see Hulk having parallels with T&N. The only real justification for it remaining banned is if it is as abused as PT while having those T&N parallels, which I can see the RC viewing as problematic.
If it isn't centralizing, I see it as being just as fair as T&N or just as broken if you intend it to be that way. It being a creature (for the reanimation fun) does have something to do with it being potentially centralizing. Opponents can't usually do much with my T&N (other than the Wrexial list my friend's younger brother runs), but I can see Hulk being more easily abused in the manner that PT and SP were.
At any rate, I don't think Hulk coming off would be the end of the world, but I could see if the "centralizing" was why that won't happen.
I don't think he was asking for a Vorinclex ban either. The insidious nature you're referring to showing itself 1% of the time when you land the T1 Sol Ring sounds more like the nuts and less like the card itself. This is multiplayer....
Were you all so unified that it needed to be banned that.ypu didn't even have to discuss it? You all just silently agreed to take it behind the woodshed?
This gave me a real good chuckle. That said, I don't know why they would waste time discussing a legend that people have been playing for less than a month. I imagine the real discussion for Leovold would come in 6-12 months once they can get an idea if people are playing him oppressively, frequently, and all over. If he isn't, just like Narset, Zur, Prossh, etc., he will be safe.
Having answers to the specific problems in your meta isn't a dick move if those answers are general "catch alls" and not silver bullets. For example, running Angel of Jubilation against the black player who sacrifices creatures for value is kind of rude, but having a graveyard hate piece like Scavenging Ooze or Rest in Peace is somewhat reasonable if you don't have answers to graveyard strategies in your deck and you need them.
You don't need to run graveyard hate if no one in your meta uses the graveyard, but you may need to run things like Unravel the Æther or Return to Dust if you see a lot of God cards. Honestly, building so that your deck can interact with the things that threaten you isn't a rude thing to do. Literally every consistent playgroup does it. I run Sigarda, Host of Herons because literally 3 of the 5 players in my meta ran Grixis decks constantly and I got tired of sacrificing all my stuff. Totally reasonable thing to do, tbh.
Obviously you shouldn't be stocking your deck with answer after answer tailored for your opponents, but needing mass graveyard hate, so you include something like Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void seems pretty fair.
They have literal quotes on their website mtgcommander.net that address why each card was banned and these go back years in an easy to locate manner (you can probably also find links to why each card was banned on this website). I promise you that "pushing fair decks into the competitive range" is not a banning criteria. "Overly centralizing gameplay" is what you're looking for with regard to PT. If it was said, it wasn't the actual reasoning. In court decisions (written by the deciding judge, usually in an appeals case) there is something called "dicta." Dicta is when the judge or justice mentions something that looks like it is a reason for why they made whatever decision they did, but it turns out that they decided the way they did based on other factors and this "dicta" reasoning is not relevant to the precedent. It is often easy to mistake for the legal rule, but possible to distinguish through careful reading and checking references and citations. If you did see the statement you are claiming you did, I imagine it was a case of "dicta" where that is not the clearly communicated rationale behind PT's ban.
If you're slowrolling it because you're trying to avoid its downside, that means you're not gaining the advantage of 2 additional mana on all your early turns, which in turn makes it less impactful and not worth a ban. Mana Crypt on Turn 5, for example, doesn't do a whole lot in terms of explosiveness or the game snowballing out of control. Players could have ramped past that with "fair" cards by that point.
In typical EDH metas, which are somewhere around "game ends on turn 10," 15 life is what you'll lose from Mana Crypt played on T1(on average). That's sizably more than "very little" and it could easily be higher. I know you're saying there is no/little opportunity cost and very little life loss, but that doesn't make it true or factual. In fact, it is certainly not true.
The other question is unreal acceleration into what? It isn't too much mana too quickly like Channel, Tolarian Academy, or Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary. Outside of a "power level" ban, which isn't a ban criteria, I don't see how this would get banned, especially when it is ostensibly worse than Sol Ring in the typical playgroup and average game of EDH.
You've effectively described what Mana Crypt does when it is played. I don't dispute that. However, the fact does not speak for itself. Just because Mana Crypt does those things doesn't mean that those things are "unreal" or "[too] explosive". You need to explain why those interactions meet the RC's stated criteria for banning cards. I'm saying that it doesn't meet any of them. It doesn't centralize the game, it isn't too much mana too quickly as the cards banned for that are clearly far beyond the scope of what Mana Crypt does because MC never generates more than 2 mana, there is no barrier to entry because of it (more than ever now), and power level isn't a ban criteria. So why does it deserve a ban under the RC's express criteria?
The whole aesthetic for Kaladesh is some of the most beautiful art I've ever seen on Magic cards. The inevitable pricetag for some of these is going to be easily in the triple digits, but some of the others for cards that are only 4-5 dollars should be quite affordable.
I'm hoping to get a Static Orb, Lotus Petal, and Gauntlet of Power, personally. Hopefully they sell for a reasonable price under $50.
I thought the same thing about Cloudblazer, but it only coming down on 5 mana makes it a bit worse. It's a nice card and probably an excellent option for more budget versions of the deck, but I don't think I can cut anything for it. My 5 drop slot is incredibly competitive.
Comparing the life loss of "1.5" per turn to 1 per turn of Phyrexian Arena and calling it "slightly more" is certainly a misnomer if not outright deceptive. Yes, 0.5 life is not that much in a singular instance, but it is a 50% greater increased loss of life. 50% is a sizable difference in proportion.
Second, I don't know of anywhere that the RC bans cards which "push fair decks into the competitive range." I'm not sure where you got that, but it is not a banning criteria now and it never has been to my knowledge. If you can produce some statement from the RC that they use that in their banning decisions, I'll gladly admit I am wrong, but this seems to be a completely made up criteria that they "use" for banning.
Cards are not banned for competitive implications in decks, nor are they banned -more plainly- for "power" reasons.
For the purposes of fast mana, the argument is always considering them coming down on T1, which is statistically somewhere around 7-10% of the time. So, I'll play along. That 1.5 life per turn starting from T1, in any deck that isn't designed to be so fast that the life loss is irrelevant, adds up pretty quickly. The RC says that they expect games to go about 10 turns. In 10 turns, that MC will cost you 15 life. That is sizeable. 15 life is 37.5% of your life total in EDH. The life loss from this card is not at all insignificant in the types of games that the RC wants to see. I think, with that drawback, it makes it worse than Sol Ring in the RC's model playgroup. Would you rather pay 1 colorless for 10 turns of a Sol Ring, or 15 life for 10 turns of Mana Crypt? The answer here is pretty clear. Given their stance on Sol Ring in their model format, where MC is ostensibly worse, I can't see it ever getting the ban unless Sol Ring also went (which is highly unlikely at the present time).
Admittedly, I'm not an expert on Yisan by any means so I can't really speak to the storm matchup. You can do things like run Hall of Gemstone, though, which I do like for mono-Green competitive.
With his combos, he can also do a decent job of racing, especially for what your budget is. He's sort of the premier budget commander and is considered "Tier 1" competitively and was also banned in Duel Commander if that speaks to his power at all for you.
I just saw it as well and thought the same thing (though I'm building towards a Karador Boonweaver instead of Anafenza hatebears, but they're similar).
I feel like it is strong against Storm, notably against Ad Nauseam as it takes away so much of their reach because they need to cast what they are digging for and have effectively less life to do so. Also works against anything else where your opponents are paying a lot of life to win. If you don't see those decks, it's probably a decent value play, but doesn't hurt enough to turn people off of whatever they are casting, I would guess.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is a pretty solid budget commander as he is one of the best commanders in the format if you want a competitive list and he can be built solidly for $200 and upgraded over time to the "budgetless Yisan" that sits around $1000.
I know your budget is 100-120, but I'm sure that you can make it to the $200 version with ease and Green is generally very budget friendly as far as effects like ramp, etc. Many of the cards in the list are also inexpensive (which is why this budget list is hailed) and it is rather modular where you can upgrade piece by piece. Decimator of the Provinces is an excellent budget swap for Craterhoof Behemoth, for example.
It's things like this why people have such a distaste for proxies. It has the stereotype of being some kid with a printer and some card stock and they just start printing their own versions of cards worth thousands of dollars in total without considering that they're wildly powering up their decks. I spent hundreds to make decent 3-color mana bases over time. Putting himself at such an advantage over you, nightwyrm, seems almost like spitting in your face.
I made the same mistake that a lot of others made (which makes sense because it's more non-MLD Cataclysm than it is Tragic Arrogance). IT EVEN HAS IT IN THE NAME.
I need to read things more carefully, lol.
So, I recently cut Bant Charm in order to get up to 36 lands again (my foray to 35 was uneventful, but I just don't like being that low on lands and wanted to get Lumbering Falls back in).
My issue that I have, is that since I've also cut Krosan Grip recently, my "destroy artifact" that isn't on a creature has now become quite limited, which is problematic against Torpor Orb and its ilk.
Do you ever have issues with Torpor? I've been wanting to get rid of Oblation forever (and would rather run Bant Charm over it), but it's one of my only outs against a God card and I guess it gets rid of Torpor Orb as well. Does Return to Dust merit a discussion here, especially when used as a sorcery?
I'm also thinking that, perhaps, Supreme Verdict should get cut from my list, though I'm not sure what I'd slam in for it. New Nissa, Vital Force is interesting, as is Tamiyo, Field Researcher who I still think is awesome. Alternatively, I could just jam Mana Crypt or Temporal Manipulation(that sweet promo art for $40) in its place now that I've picked up a copy of each, which would probably be the better life choice.
I've not been spending as much time thinking about this list recently as I've been trying to figure out my competitive list with Narset. Finding the right balance of acceleration, haste outlets, interaction, and win conditions/voltron to make sure I get there when I combo has proven to be a real ***** and I haven't found a list online that builds her as well as I think she can be built. They all have a few holes.
If it isn't centralizing, I see it as being just as fair as T&N or just as broken if you intend it to be that way. It being a creature (for the reanimation fun) does have something to do with it being potentially centralizing. Opponents can't usually do much with my T&N (other than the Wrexial list my friend's younger brother runs), but I can see Hulk being more easily abused in the manner that PT and SP were.
At any rate, I don't think Hulk coming off would be the end of the world, but I could see if the "centralizing" was why that won't happen.
This gave me a real good chuckle. That said, I don't know why they would waste time discussing a legend that people have been playing for less than a month. I imagine the real discussion for Leovold would come in 6-12 months once they can get an idea if people are playing him oppressively, frequently, and all over. If he isn't, just like Narset, Zur, Prossh, etc., he will be safe.
You don't need to run graveyard hate if no one in your meta uses the graveyard, but you may need to run things like Unravel the Æther or Return to Dust if you see a lot of God cards. Honestly, building so that your deck can interact with the things that threaten you isn't a rude thing to do. Literally every consistent playgroup does it. I run Sigarda, Host of Herons because literally 3 of the 5 players in my meta ran Grixis decks constantly and I got tired of sacrificing all my stuff. Totally reasonable thing to do, tbh.
Obviously you shouldn't be stocking your deck with answer after answer tailored for your opponents, but needing mass graveyard hate, so you include something like Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void seems pretty fair.
If you're slowrolling it because you're trying to avoid its downside, that means you're not gaining the advantage of 2 additional mana on all your early turns, which in turn makes it less impactful and not worth a ban. Mana Crypt on Turn 5, for example, doesn't do a whole lot in terms of explosiveness or the game snowballing out of control. Players could have ramped past that with "fair" cards by that point.
In typical EDH metas, which are somewhere around "game ends on turn 10," 15 life is what you'll lose from Mana Crypt played on T1(on average). That's sizably more than "very little" and it could easily be higher. I know you're saying there is no/little opportunity cost and very little life loss, but that doesn't make it true or factual. In fact, it is certainly not true.
The other question is unreal acceleration into what? It isn't too much mana too quickly like Channel, Tolarian Academy, or Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary. Outside of a "power level" ban, which isn't a ban criteria, I don't see how this would get banned, especially when it is ostensibly worse than Sol Ring in the typical playgroup and average game of EDH.
You've effectively described what Mana Crypt does when it is played. I don't dispute that. However, the fact does not speak for itself. Just because Mana Crypt does those things doesn't mean that those things are "unreal" or "[too] explosive". You need to explain why those interactions meet the RC's stated criteria for banning cards. I'm saying that it doesn't meet any of them. It doesn't centralize the game, it isn't too much mana too quickly as the cards banned for that are clearly far beyond the scope of what Mana Crypt does because MC never generates more than 2 mana, there is no barrier to entry because of it (more than ever now), and power level isn't a ban criteria. So why does it deserve a ban under the RC's express criteria?
I'm hoping to get a Static Orb, Lotus Petal, and Gauntlet of Power, personally. Hopefully they sell for a reasonable price under $50.
Overall, though, just wow. Incredible work.
Second, I don't know of anywhere that the RC bans cards which "push fair decks into the competitive range." I'm not sure where you got that, but it is not a banning criteria now and it never has been to my knowledge. If you can produce some statement from the RC that they use that in their banning decisions, I'll gladly admit I am wrong, but this seems to be a completely made up criteria that they "use" for banning.
Cards are not banned for competitive implications in decks, nor are they banned -more plainly- for "power" reasons.
For the purposes of fast mana, the argument is always considering them coming down on T1, which is statistically somewhere around 7-10% of the time. So, I'll play along. That 1.5 life per turn starting from T1, in any deck that isn't designed to be so fast that the life loss is irrelevant, adds up pretty quickly. The RC says that they expect games to go about 10 turns. In 10 turns, that MC will cost you 15 life. That is sizeable. 15 life is 37.5% of your life total in EDH. The life loss from this card is not at all insignificant in the types of games that the RC wants to see. I think, with that drawback, it makes it worse than Sol Ring in the RC's model playgroup. Would you rather pay 1 colorless for 10 turns of a Sol Ring, or 15 life for 10 turns of Mana Crypt? The answer here is pretty clear. Given their stance on Sol Ring in their model format, where MC is ostensibly worse, I can't see it ever getting the ban unless Sol Ring also went (which is highly unlikely at the present time).
With his combos, he can also do a decent job of racing, especially for what your budget is. He's sort of the premier budget commander and is considered "Tier 1" competitively and was also banned in Duel Commander if that speaks to his power at all for you.
Seems good as a value play in hatebears/prison/tax lists even when not worried about storm.
I feel like it is strong against Storm, notably against Ad Nauseam as it takes away so much of their reach because they need to cast what they are digging for and have effectively less life to do so. Also works against anything else where your opponents are paying a lot of life to win. If you don't see those decks, it's probably a decent value play, but doesn't hurt enough to turn people off of whatever they are casting, I would guess.
Here is a primer on it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH/comments/4akekw/primer_building_budget_yisan_200/
I know your budget is 100-120, but I'm sure that you can make it to the $200 version with ease and Green is generally very budget friendly as far as effects like ramp, etc. Many of the cards in the list are also inexpensive (which is why this budget list is hailed) and it is rather modular where you can upgrade piece by piece. Decimator of the Provinces is an excellent budget swap for Craterhoof Behemoth, for example.
I need to read things more carefully, lol.
So, I recently cut Bant Charm in order to get up to 36 lands again (my foray to 35 was uneventful, but I just don't like being that low on lands and wanted to get Lumbering Falls back in).
My issue that I have, is that since I've also cut Krosan Grip recently, my "destroy artifact" that isn't on a creature has now become quite limited, which is problematic against Torpor Orb and its ilk.
Do you ever have issues with Torpor? I've been wanting to get rid of Oblation forever (and would rather run Bant Charm over it), but it's one of my only outs against a God card and I guess it gets rid of Torpor Orb as well. Does Return to Dust merit a discussion here, especially when used as a sorcery?
I'm also thinking that, perhaps, Supreme Verdict should get cut from my list, though I'm not sure what I'd slam in for it. New Nissa, Vital Force is interesting, as is Tamiyo, Field Researcher who I still think is awesome. Alternatively, I could just jam Mana Crypt or Temporal Manipulation(that sweet promo art for $40) in its place now that I've picked up a copy of each, which would probably be the better life choice.
I've not been spending as much time thinking about this list recently as I've been trying to figure out my competitive list with Narset. Finding the right balance of acceleration, haste outlets, interaction, and win conditions/voltron to make sure I get there when I combo has proven to be a real ***** and I haven't found a list online that builds her as well as I think she can be built. They all have a few holes.