Had a pretty sweet landfall deck at the end of old standard, and a couple of the new cards have convinced me to port it to new standard in spite of the loss of the fetch lands. Was just curious if anyone has any suggestions, especially regarding the manabase, which I am not completely happy with at the moment. I feel like I need one more of each coloured source.
You think that card is insane? I think it's not passable as a Magic card. Again, it's a 1 mana 1/2 with a 1 mana +2/+2 aura on it. That's all it is, and that is bad.
?!? A turn one 3/4 isnt good enough? Now you're just being obtuse. What creature can profitably block this guy, ever? Deathtouch guys? Cuz there are so many of those... What removal spell is blowing you out with this? The unconditional removal spells in the coming format are almost all too slow to 'get' you when you wont have counter backup, and any toughness based removal may as well not exist as far as hes concerned. Only issue is Abrupt Decay, and if your not gonna play cards that die to decay, your gonna have a real hard time finding cards to play before turn 4.
Well, your card can discard any card, is a much better blocker the turns it comes into play, and does not die to instant speed direct damage.
True, it can't discard any card. Discarding lands and other nivmaguses would be a big difference. However, most aggressive decks would much rather be discarding a spell turn one than a creature. I was trying to simplify. However, I would argue nivmagus is the better blocker every turn after turn 1 (what deck can profitably attack into this guy + open mana?). And if you ever lose this guy to instant speed toughness based removal of any type, your just playing him wrong. Why expose yourself to that? If they are sitting there playing nothing turns 2-4 because they want to be able to 'get' your nivmagus, you should be deploying other threats while holding up counters and removal, like any other delver deck would.
This guy is good. He is going to eat faces. I don't know how good (it's impossible to tell with so many unknown cards), but he's on a scale from playable to very good. Not what you all seem to think he is.
I just wrote an essay on why this guy is good, but then my internet crashed as I posted it, so now its gone forever.
However, the tl;dr version is summed up like this:
R
Creature
Echo (R, Discard a card)
3/4
That creature, right there, is insane. And thats what this guy is.
Oh, and he can be a 1/2 with no echo if you're worried about unconditional removal blowing you out. You can always wait for a more opportune time to pump him. Oh, and he has Instant speed pump vs toughness based removal. And a way to use dead cards. And hes also available in U. And he has synergy with Delver and snappy (and possibly quirion dryad). And he's a guy who can go for a massive swing of damage at any time if the situation calls for it.
This card is undercosted by at least 2. This is green. Green shouldn't be able to 'destroy target permanent'. When it used to be able to, back in the day, it was called desert twister, and cost 4gg. Seeing as this is worse than twister in at least two ways (as an aura it can be answered, and it gives them a mana) I could possibly (in my wildest dreams) see it at 3gg. But realisticly, destroy target permanent is was stronger now that it was back in twisters day, thanks to creatures not being terrible now, and also, you know, planeswalkers. So this should cost at least 6.
If it were ever released at cmc3, it would have to be GGG. And even there it would be pretty OP.
Ive done this update plenty of times before, but with nph im experiencing a new error ive never encountered before. Mws loads the masterbase just fine, and loads any decks made using the new cards just fine. But when attempting to start a game witht he deck it has an error.
The error is: Load Deck Error: Cards not found in base.
I dont understand how the deck loads fine in mws normally but not when trying to play a game.
At the pre-re im going to be buying my playsets of eldrazi temple and all is dust. The rest of that deck will fall into place around the acceleration and control supplied by those two amazing cards.
Since you're green anyway might want to add summoners trap. I know it doesnt cast the eldrazi, but its pretty sexy to just slam Eldrazakul (or any of the others) into play at end of turn.
I dunno. Goryo's Vengeance equaling 15 hasty damage AND forcing them to sac 6 permanents is pretty damn good. Dunno if its good enough to make an actual deck.
Might just be better in a deck with 4 of each urza land, 4 cloudposts, 4 temples, 2-3 Eyes, and 4 vesuva and a bunch of artifact mana accel.
I actually don't understand the hate for this card. There have been cards in EVERY SINGLE SET that are ****ing terrible. Like really really bad. But people see them, think "Yeah I'm not playing that" and then move on. This card for some reason causes deep wells of rage to rise up and explode.
Takeno's Cavalry. Hostile Realm. Pale Moon. The laces. Wood Elemental. Break Open. One With Nothing.
Half of those are RARE.
Now the two reasons people have for hating this card are a) "It was a typo they refused to fix!" or b) "Its strictly worse than scathe zombies and THAT card wasnt good enough for the core set".
Regarding A first. No card gets printed as a mistake. Except Clamp. And I still doubt that one. I bet the bastards are just trying to cover there asses. Cards get passed of from design (MaRo) to development (not MaRo). There costs change. Its a known fact that designers OFTEN miscost cards. Either overcosting bad effects, or undercosting good ones. Cards change mana cost all the time.
Even if this cards original change in manacost was because of a typo, its not like development never found out. MaRo told them about it, that he thought it was better at 1b. And they responded by saying "Your wrong. We like it better this way."
Their reasons for that, I can only assume, since no one has bothered trying to explain that. Possible reasons are:
Black was too good in draft/sealed. A 1b 2/2 with that drawback would make it better.
A card called mindless null being good is silly.
A card called mindless null being terrible is kind of funny.
A stupid zombie is also funny.
A bad gray ogre never made a set bad. An unbalanced draft format can easily ruin a set.
A for reason B, the only reason they made scathe zombies a 3/2 was because they needed black to be better in limited. Black only has 2 commons with power over 2 in limited, and the ghoul is one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if in some sealed set where black has better other creatures if the zombies return.
Or even mindless null. If only to piss you all off again :D.
It would set a terrible precident, not only for making bad cards good but for good cards bad. Instead of Skullclamp drawing cards, maybe it would be changed to milling cards. Would you want to see all the cards you like playing with degenerate or change because someone complained about them?
Not to mention, they do like cards to actually do what they say they do. Would you like to carry around a big book of different card rulings with you, everywhere you go? Have to explain to your opponent every time "Look, I know it says 2B, but they changed it to 1B, I swear!"
I really don't get what the big deal about this card is. It's not even the worst Grey Ogre they've ever printed, much less the worst card in the set...
Actually. I looked pretty hard. There are worse 2/2s, but not that cost 2C. He actually is the worst grey ogre ever.
So because maro said it was a 1b 2/2, it still should be? Thats the logic behind this.
Im sorry to break this to you, but maro =/= god. He isnt even the 'God' of magic design. Development either a) changed the card and liked it, or b) saw the typo, were told about it, and then they decided they liked the new card better.
Either way this at 1B would be too good for limited. So deal with it. How many insane cheap beaters does black need? Add another grizzly bear to the mix and it gets stupid. At 1b this is a grizzly bears, which I would like to say, is probably not what black should be getting, especially in a set with lacerator, sarrukar marauder, and gruul draz vampire, without even mentioning the uncommons.
Think about what you are saying. A card called MINDLESS NULL is bad. Thats like being annoyed that Honey-Rings dont taste as good as Honey Nut Cheerios.
Or you could insert a comparison that makes more sense. But my gf bought honey-rings (or honey-os or something) at the store the other day, and I still havent forgiven her. "No honey, they are not the same."
edit: Heh, see what I did there with the honey at the end. Totally accidental.
Id argue that its actually better than gray ogre. Zombies are a creature type that actually matter.
Compare it to rootwater shaman. A rare blue gray ogre. Which would you rather happen, your lacerator is now a mindless null, or your Cursed Scroll/Grindstone/Reflecting Pool is now a rootwater shaman.
If your gonna ***** about bad cards, at least ***** about bad rares or uncummons. Its a bad common. This is not an unusual occurence.
Also I dont buy that 'mistake'. If MaRo tried to kill it, and failed, then it wasnt a mistake. It was done on purpose.
Clamp was a mistake, this was well thought through. Black aggro does not need another 2 drop in limited. Take my word for it.
Edit: See! Steamflogger boss. Now there was a card to ***** about.
And if you can show me a top 8 from a tournament that had more than 8 players with one with nothing in it, I will by 4 copies of that wonderful card and mail them to you. Since you like it so much....
Even dredge has better options. I think some people put it in their sides to beat owling mine. But thats stupid. If you wanted to beat owling mine that much you shoulda just played zoo dumbasses. Also, they still lost to owling mine.
Anyways, here is the current build:
4 Undergrowth Champion
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 Gitrog Monster
2 Ulvenwald Hydra
4 Retreat to Kazandu
4 Retreat to Hagra
4 Retreat to Emeria
2 Anguished Unmaking
2 Ultimate Price
4 Blighted Woodlands
1 Warped Landscape
2 Plains
2 Swamp
8 Forest
3 Shambling Vent
1 Hissing Quagmire
1 Mirrorpool
1 Rogue's Passage
1 drownyard temple
Buisness spells? WTF does that mean? What spells are you playing that are so good they are better than having a 3/4 swinging on turn 2?
?!? A turn one 3/4 isnt good enough? Now you're just being obtuse. What creature can profitably block this guy, ever? Deathtouch guys? Cuz there are so many of those... What removal spell is blowing you out with this? The unconditional removal spells in the coming format are almost all too slow to 'get' you when you wont have counter backup, and any toughness based removal may as well not exist as far as hes concerned. Only issue is Abrupt Decay, and if your not gonna play cards that die to decay, your gonna have a real hard time finding cards to play before turn 4.
True, it can't discard any card. Discarding lands and other nivmaguses would be a big difference. However, most aggressive decks would much rather be discarding a spell turn one than a creature. I was trying to simplify. However, I would argue nivmagus is the better blocker every turn after turn 1 (what deck can profitably attack into this guy + open mana?). And if you ever lose this guy to instant speed toughness based removal of any type, your just playing him wrong. Why expose yourself to that? If they are sitting there playing nothing turns 2-4 because they want to be able to 'get' your nivmagus, you should be deploying other threats while holding up counters and removal, like any other delver deck would.
This guy is good. He is going to eat faces. I don't know how good (it's impossible to tell with so many unknown cards), but he's on a scale from playable to very good. Not what you all seem to think he is.
However, the tl;dr version is summed up like this:
R
Creature
Echo (R, Discard a card)
3/4
That creature, right there, is insane. And thats what this guy is.
Oh, and he can be a 1/2 with no echo if you're worried about unconditional removal blowing you out. You can always wait for a more opportune time to pump him. Oh, and he has Instant speed pump vs toughness based removal. And a way to use dead cards. And hes also available in U. And he has synergy with Delver and snappy (and possibly quirion dryad). And he's a guy who can go for a massive swing of damage at any time if the situation calls for it.
But even if he didn't do all of those things,
R
Creature
Echo (R, Discard a card)
3/4
Would be good enough to see play. Period.
If it were ever released at cmc3, it would have to be GGG. And even there it would be pretty OP.
The error is: Load Deck Error: Cards not found in base.
I dont understand how the deck loads fine in mws normally but not when trying to play a game.
Anyone have any suggestions?
I.E. Does it start at level 0 or level 1?
This mechanic is boring and confusing....
Might just be better in a deck with 4 of each urza land, 4 cloudposts, 4 temples, 2-3 Eyes, and 4 vesuva and a bunch of artifact mana accel.
Well, not really.
I actually don't understand the hate for this card. There have been cards in EVERY SINGLE SET that are ****ing terrible. Like really really bad. But people see them, think "Yeah I'm not playing that" and then move on. This card for some reason causes deep wells of rage to rise up and explode.
Takeno's Cavalry. Hostile Realm. Pale Moon. The laces. Wood Elemental. Break Open. One With Nothing.
Half of those are RARE.
Now the two reasons people have for hating this card are a) "It was a typo they refused to fix!" or b) "Its strictly worse than scathe zombies and THAT card wasnt good enough for the core set".
Regarding A first. No card gets printed as a mistake. Except Clamp. And I still doubt that one. I bet the bastards are just trying to cover there asses. Cards get passed of from design (MaRo) to development (not MaRo). There costs change. Its a known fact that designers OFTEN miscost cards. Either overcosting bad effects, or undercosting good ones. Cards change mana cost all the time.
Even if this cards original change in manacost was because of a typo, its not like development never found out. MaRo told them about it, that he thought it was better at 1b. And they responded by saying "Your wrong. We like it better this way."
Their reasons for that, I can only assume, since no one has bothered trying to explain that. Possible reasons are:
Black was too good in draft/sealed. A 1b 2/2 with that drawback would make it better.
A card called mindless null being good is silly.
A card called mindless null being terrible is kind of funny.
A stupid zombie is also funny.
A bad gray ogre never made a set bad. An unbalanced draft format can easily ruin a set.
A for reason B, the only reason they made scathe zombies a 3/2 was because they needed black to be better in limited. Black only has 2 commons with power over 2 in limited, and the ghoul is one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if in some sealed set where black has better other creatures if the zombies return.
Or even mindless null. If only to piss you all off again :D.
Actually. I looked pretty hard. There are worse 2/2s, but not that cost 2C. He actually is the worst grey ogre ever.
So?
Hes still a ****ing common.
Im sorry to break this to you, but maro =/= god. He isnt even the 'God' of magic design. Development either a) changed the card and liked it, or b) saw the typo, were told about it, and then they decided they liked the new card better.
Either way this at 1B would be too good for limited. So deal with it. How many insane cheap beaters does black need? Add another grizzly bear to the mix and it gets stupid. At 1b this is a grizzly bears, which I would like to say, is probably not what black should be getting, especially in a set with lacerator, sarrukar marauder, and gruul draz vampire, without even mentioning the uncommons.
Or you could insert a comparison that makes more sense. But my gf bought honey-rings (or honey-os or something) at the store the other day, and I still havent forgiven her. "No honey, they are not the same."
edit: Heh, see what I did there with the honey at the end. Totally accidental.
Compare it to rootwater shaman. A rare blue gray ogre. Which would you rather happen, your lacerator is now a mindless null, or your Cursed Scroll/Grindstone/Reflecting Pool is now a rootwater shaman.
If your gonna ***** about bad cards, at least ***** about bad rares or uncummons. Its a bad common. This is not an unusual occurence.
Also I dont buy that 'mistake'. If MaRo tried to kill it, and failed, then it wasnt a mistake. It was done on purpose.
Clamp was a mistake, this was well thought through. Black aggro does not need another 2 drop in limited. Take my word for it.
Edit: See! Steamflogger boss. Now there was a card to ***** about.
And if you can show me a top 8 from a tournament that had more than 8 players with one with nothing in it, I will by 4 copies of that wonderful card and mail them to you. Since you like it so much....
Even dredge has better options. I think some people put it in their sides to beat owling mine. But thats stupid. If you wanted to beat owling mine that much you shoulda just played zoo dumbasses. Also, they still lost to owling mine.