Funny to see there was someone else playing that tournament Who are you?
For blood moon, yes I think it is Worth playing in that format. Also, the matchups where it's good are usually not great ones, so you might need the extra help. And if you play well, you can win most grindy matchups, so it might be worth trying to get some free wins agaisnt bad matchups. It's good against a big part of the metagame anyway, especially on the play.
For the nombo with RiP, well, honestly I don't care that much about it. If I have RiP on the table in the matchups like Dredge, Hollow one, Living End , even storm, I don't care that much if my voices are not as good (and I might sb out witness and/or reveillark). I didn't play agaisnt mardu pyromancer, but I think it hurt them way more than me. The only matchups where I'm unsure is Jund actually. Voice, witness and reveillark are all great cards vs them, and I'm unsure if I want to side one or maybe 2 of them agaisnt it. It's only really good vs tarmogoyf but it's important, and it means we both play with vanilla grizzly bears (my voices and his ooze). Reveillark is still a 4/3 flier which sometimes is good enough, they can't bolt everything, and it makes Kolaghan Command less efficient. There are probably some other matchups where it could be annoying, like some grixis builds.
as I played a quite competitive tournament sunday with a deck and didn't post here lately, I thought it might be useful to make a quick report, and explain my decklist.
I thought my decklist would be published today as I 5-0'd my only competitive league with it, but oddly it wasn't. So, after losing much more than I usually do for a few weeks, here is the list I finally played and currently like:
5 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Wall of Roots
1 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Wall of Omens
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Restoration Angel
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Reveillark
4 Chord of Calling
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Blood Moon
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Voice: I didn't always play the full playset, but with BBE and Jace unbanned I feel it's where you want to be. It's even more obvious if you play Evolution, which I currently don't.
Selfless Spirit: One of the last card to come back in this version, I had only spellskite in that slot, but the spirit might actually be better. They have different roles, but I've to say the Spirit overperformed. I added him mostly only because of Supreme Verdict (and to a lesser degree anger), but it did many things, attacking in the air , protecting important creatures from bolt, etc. I think I'll keep him for some time.
2 Wall of Roots, 1 Omen. I need to have some stuff to make my Resto Angels better and it blocks BBE well, so Omen is pretty good too. Roots is important with 4 chords, and also with Resto angel.
1 Tracker: He replaced a the second witness, and I was really, really happy with the change. I was already playing 2 Courser, these 3 creatures make me play grindy games against Jund and Jace decks, and are solid in many other matchups.
2 kiki: The major problems of these decks is that they can be clunky, and I would often want to cut the second to avoid this a bit. The reasons I added back the 2nd are: 1) it can happen to have the 1st one exiled because of a path 2) With only 1 witness in the deck, if it dies it might be difficult to get it back , 3, as I play 3 resto, It makes me more likely to naturally draw the combo. It's important in linear matchups lIke Tron.
1 Reveillark, was sometimes an acidic slime, but I feel it's more often useful. I might consider cutting it, but as I said I expect to play a lot against BBE and Jace, and it's good in that Meta.
2 Nahiri: I tried many , many, many decks with Resto Angel and Kiki Jiki, and in all of them I try to have 9-12 cards among things like Restoration Angel, chord, Collected company, PW's or Being to Light, allowing me to "go over the top" once I have a mana or board advantage. I really would love to play Jace, as I felt I was in a perfect spot to play it (I can accelerate it, defend it with some cheap removal and good blockers), but my testing with it wasn't so great. Also, I was happy to play Moon and Magus, so it meant strictly Naya. I am not in love with Evolution at the moment, as I feel it's better when your goal is to combo fast than to grind, BtL is clunky (for those of you talking about playing it higher: Lotus Cobra goes really well with it, and is a pretty good card anyway). Nahiri does many important things, acting as removal sometimes (and sometimes I need to remove opposing blood moon, I am happy to have outs to worship without needing to board one, etc), letting me go ahead on an even board, or cycle useless cards like Blood Moon in some matchups, Extra birds, etc. His Ultimate can come fast and is very threatening, and you usually win when you use it of course.
3 bolts: I want some cheap removal, it's important to answer some creatures of the format and to protect Nahiri. I much prefer it to Path, mostly because I often use it early against things like Dark Confidant. being able to go to the dome is also very important now with Jace, an I often finish people with it.
SB:
3rd Blood moon. Obviously there against Tron and Valakut, I might consider cutting it if I need the space
2 ghostly prison 1 fiery justice. I had 3 cunning spakrmage for some time, that I kinda liked but didn't love. My theory with them (or staticaster) is that they are much better in multiples so I like playing 3 (letting me chord a second, or blink one with resto, to kill other things than x/1's). I didn't play enough against aggro in the 13 rounds I played since playing them again, but I am not sure that it's the best option. If I play something else, I'd strongly consider playing again an Engineered Explosives.
2 Choke. I really liked the 1st one, not sure the 2nd belongs. Jace decks don't have that many islands, but even locking 1-2 is often enough.
Acidic Slime/Qasali. Restoration Sage is the best "disenchant", but I like to be able to board some artifact removal to not lose to an ensarning bridge of decks like burn, or something similar, so I want artifact removal on a decent body. Maybe one of them is too much, I like having both for now. Having both let me side Acidic slime against jund, where it's usually pretty decent.
So, my tournament, 117 people in Geneva (Switzerland), there are 3-4 of these every year, it was the biggest ever, with many people who travelled a bit to come there.
Round 1, Grixis: I win the 1st game pretty quickly. The second one we both mulligan (maybe even one of us to 5), I am in a spot where I have blood moon and choke (nice nombo) but can't draw my 3rd land for two straight turns while he's tapped out. I managed to land a blood moon while he have no blue, survive a Pia, and manage to kill him before he can find a bolt or Command to finish me. 1-0
Round 2, Jund. I am much behind game 1 after a mull on the play, but he floods a bit and I can come back and win. Game 2 he mulls, keep a questionable hand and dies after failing to draw his second land. 2-0
Round 3, GW hexprooof. I win Game 1 only because of Blood moon. I don't remember much of game 2 but I won, probably because of worship. 3-0
round 4, UG Infect. I win game one, combing fast after disrupting him a bit. I lose game 2 super fast after a spell pierce on a key spell. Game 3 is close, I can't ever tap out to represent many stuff, but don't take too many poison counters. A key moment is on turn 5 or so, when he use a fetch end of my turn to go for breeding pool (he didn't do it the turn before), letting me play blood moon (or magus) the turn after, and I win a bit later. 4-0.
Round 5. GR Ponza. He floods a bit game 1, and maybe mulligan game 2, I win both game very easily with good hands. 5-0.
Round 6. 117 players means 5-0-1 isn't 100% in, but looking at the pairings we saw we are 4 players at 5-0, there are 17 at 4-1. So we can draw and hopefully the paired down player would lose, or it could happen also the round after. Maybe not the best decision, but we all ID. 5-0-1
Round 7, a bit of a tricky situation. We're still 4 at 16 points, 9 are at 15. One guy (player a) has better than tiebreaker than us (b c d), he offers a draw to player B, who ask us if it's safe to accept. It's actually not so great, because if we all draw and the paired down player win, we are 6-9. If we play, at least we've a shot at 1st seed, and are still in if the paired down player win. So we all start playing, I am against Mono U tron, I win the first game, lose the second one. At the end of the second game, Player B wins against player A. As he have better tie-breakers than us by far, it means than if the paired down player win, loser of our game is nearly out for sure. So we don't take the risk and draw. Player A is obviously pretty unhappy and think what we did is unfair. While it seems a bit borderline and I understand his frustration, I think most players would take a draw there if it means being sure to be in the top8. 5-0-2
Quarter final, some kind of Naya Zoo, no Company (voice, reliquary, bloodbraid, Thalia,..). I win game 1 after playing some good blockers early, and game 2 after a worship that he can't destroy.
Semi Finals, RG Hollow one. I win game 1 after playing enough defensive creatures to block until I combo, lose game 2 to after conceding turn 2 to a busted draw, and win a close game 3, he has a pretty good start but I am able to survive thanks to a ghostly prison that slowed him a lot.
Finals, Jund. I again come back from a tough start to win game 1. I don't remember much about game 2 but I lost, but win the 3rd one . I win 10 shock lands and 20 fetches, so about 350$ worth of cards.
Jeff (or others), in the black splash, did you ever consider some fatal push?
Among the many built I played in the last 1-2 years (one of them making you run worship in a sag ) I felt depending on the meta I often wanted more than 4 spot removal, and it might be better than Bolt atm.
Didn't play lately so really not sure it's worth it, the mana might be a bit harder, but with death shadow being probably the most important aggro deck at the moment, it feels much better than bolt vs them. I also like having some removal that let me kill an important creature early game (bob, etc) without having to use a path, and it's really useful on the nahiri plan.
Rémy
One thing is bothering me.
EE is legal for a month or so now...In my testings so far I've came to a conclusion that Nahiri - Emmy package is more consistent, or is that just me? I've tried both blue and black version, /w and w/o Nahiri and currently i am playing "old" black version except I got split of 3 EE/2 Chords/3 paths and it's much more stable.
Interested in other opinions :9
Cheers!
Funny, because I also came on this thread to read or maybe ask about it. I also like Nahiri a lot, and was wondering if it's still worth playing it over Evo. 4 nahiri's + emrakul + some evo's and chord seem to be a bit too much, especially as it'd mean removing removals to fit the creatures we need, while removal is often important to let nahiri live. Also, I think I prefer black atm too, but I like being able to play an exarch, as an out to enchantments or artifacts in combinaison with a nahiri.
And in more mainstream lists, did anyone consider playing some bolts instead of path? I find I often want to remove something early game, when I'm not willing to use a path.
Deck needs a way to circumvent graveyard hate out of the sideboard. It wins most G1s with a Rites/Fattie or Lingering Souls but those get cutoff hard G2 and G3. That's what Giest of Saint Traft was in the board to do (as well provide at least 2 cards to sub in for bad reanimation targets). Maybe 1 more in the board. Was pretty happy with most of the cards and the sideboard.
Interesting list, and congrats for that result.
However I've a question, after removing the green: What's your plan against a leyline of sanctify (apart dodging it, which could be the plan )
GerryT told at the end of his video (didn't watch the rounds only intro and wrap-up, he went like 2-3) that he didn't like this version.
There are actually a few things I like in his version. I started playing Grixis again yesterday (only 3 matches in a league so not sure yet if Ill continue and get to a list I like), but I borrowed the idea I saw online of 3 ensnarning bridge in SB, and it looks really good. Most creature decks won't have much ways to remove it, if any, and then even if killing them would be slow it shouldn't be too much of a problem (I play 2 Liliana too, which might help in these situations). I think I'll add 2 slaughter's game (or 1 and a surgical extraction) to go with this plan, as it can be a way to remove their outs, while doubling as a very useful tool vs combo decks. It could be especially important vs the ones playing World Breaker (but they will often have ancient grude too, and maybe even Ulamog, so RG will be much tougher to beat probably).
I agree with people who are worried about the B/x eldrazi deck. I didn't play much magic sine the RPTq's (I qualified with Gifts and did quite poorly (3-3 I think) there with is), but played some modern on mtgo lately. There are enough Eldrazi decks that I wouldn't play Gifts anymore for now, the matchup looks really awful, and looks much worse than Tron (even when they played relic). Here we can't really have a plan I think, they don't care much about Elesh/Iona, Destroying a land with tech edge/GQ probably doesn't them slow enough, and Life/Loam isn't a great plan vs a deck with so many relics or similar cards.
@TuSaisPas: what are the Leyline of the Voids in the SB for? You're running 3, which means they're obv important for something. Just can't figure out where you'd REALLY need one. Of course having GY hate is good, but this looks like something very important to have 3 in the SB.
Also, huge fan of sylvan caryatid for the ramp. Early blocking without fear of removal. The important 'ramp to' numbers are 4-5, so the fact that it costs 2 doesn't hurt.
-Yawg
I re-added them mostly because of the grixis control matchup, as they are nearly GG there. The deck was one of the most important 2 months ago, but lost some % of the metagame since that, so I might reconsider them in the future. Well, they are not too bad against Grixis Twin, but I can't really afford to bring 3 of them against that deck. The fact they play the new Jace makes it even better however.
It's also very important against living dead, which still holds some metagame %, and against the griselbrand deck, which is much less played. You can also board it against some matchups like the junk company deck (they can't combo you, it's good vs voice, it's harder for them to attrition you with witness, etc).
Caryatid is one of the most important card of the deck (the only one I always play 4 with Gifts actually), I started with 2, added a third then a 4th, and never looked back. It has the very important to give you some much needed insurance against blood moon. I actually nearly never lose against blood moon, fetching basics pretty agressively, and won more games because it annoyed my opponent than I lost to it.
I don't think I would board EE here, as it's pretty slow and doesn't answer so many things, always at sorcery speed and costing you more man than what you killed. Sure you'll sometimes get a unite, for 5 mana, doesn't seem so hot. I would rather keep Courser, you don't care about the life gain here but the card advantage can be really important, and you said you want to combo as fast as possible, removing lands from the top to draw spells helps that.
Worship is actually pretty bad vs them, as they usually side the spell that let them destroy all enchantments for free (forgot the name, patriarch something I think).
Well, you've some dedicated hate, as Eidolon is the best card vs them. Apart that bringing as many annoying card as possible vs them is usually enough, I actually kinda like the matchup, not always easy for them to get 5 mana in time + keep the 2 card combo (but I play many collectors, it helps). It's tough to see without seeing the whole game, but I think I would try to play the eidolon a bit earlier, rather than need to slow myself so much to be able to chord for it at any time.
TuSaisPas doesn't post often, but is an absolute authority on this deck and has been playing it longer than even I have--and with far better results. Pay close attention!
Well, you're probably giving me way too much credit But yes I played it for a long time (I actually doubt anyone ever played more match than me with the archetype), I think I top'd the first PTQ I played with it during what was if I remember correctly the first ever modern season. As I lost in quarter too eggs is should have been right after Cifka won the PT with it, 2012 I think... but at that time we had death rite shaman, I would sell some of my organs to get that again in my deck. Even if it forced me to maindeck disfigure to kill the opposing ones
Anyway, here is the decklist I am playing atm. The only changes from my last tournament (the WMCQ) is -1 Creeping Tar-Pit + 1 Urborg, to try it again (I'm not sure it's necessary, and celestial colonnade is an option as well. It's more expensive to use but can kill a Liliana in one shot. It doesn't happen often however, I mostly played it when I had wrath or baneslayer maindeck).And -1 Duress + 1 dispel, also trying that one.
I'm considering removing a lingering soul for another threat. Could be Baneslayer (but it's expensive and WW can be tough), Tasigur (but I often need my lands in the grave) or Batterskull (but K Command is in the format, even if it 2 for 1 us anyway usually). I'm really unsure what I want in this slot for now.
But as I said, honestly I'm not super happy with the deck at the moment, and if I play it at the RPTQ it would be only if I don't really like anything else. I'll play it in Bangkok btw, if anyone knows the asian metagame I'd love to hear about that; I heard it's a little bit more aggro than in other places, but the meta is anyway kinda the same everywhere, with a bit of everything.
I played gifts quite a lot this summer, including 2 IRL tournaments, winning a PPTQ (going 9-0) then coming close in the WMCQ. I was about to win my quarters where my opponent found clever to call the judge because my sleeves weren't new. Sleeves were ok, but it turned out my leylines of the void were old, a bit bended and one of them was kinda identifiable, so she took the quite harsh decision to DQ me. But it was still 15-1 with the deck, in a quite competitive setting.
I wasn't really convinced my the deck at the moment, with the meta being a little bit more hostile than it used to be. People now seems to play jund again rather than junk which is much better (because of their outs to Iona, and their lingering souls), a little bit less of merfolk, so maybe it's better.
Did anyone really try bring to light? Here is the version I was trying:
I feared adding 2/3 more cards with a casting cost of 5 might be a problem, and it indeed was. The deck is already clunky enough that I didn't love having another 5 mana sorcery. Adding a color was also a slight annoyance (nothing too complicated as I removed a tar pit for a blood crypt, but still). To compensate I tried to add two birds of paradise again (and LSV was doing it too), but I was never impressed by them and it didn't change. They make fetching a bit more painful (as ideally I'd fetch black t1 for discard, and often need a dual there as I can't know if birds will die), and give a target to our opponent's removal.
Also, they didn't really feel like extra copies of gifts, as you really don't want to play it as a sorcery to get the reanimation package.
I of course liked having access to some hate cards in the SB however, but overall I wasn't impress. BTW rhino + baloth was just something I was trying, usually I've two leyline of Sanctify here. Not sure yet what I really want as a burn hate, I usually don't love timely reinforcement either, but something is needed.
I will try again my version without bring to light, to see if I would run it at the RPTQ Bankgok. I'm not convinced, but as I'm not convinced by anything in modern, might as well play one of the decks I know the best. I might try to play again a baneslayer MD instead of the second souls, but here again it's a 5CC spell, sometimes difficult to cast. Really useful in some matchups however, and I don't consider playing Batterskull again, because of K.Command.
Also, there is one card probably none of you play but that I would really advice, it's utter end in the SB. 4mana is 1 too much for a removal, but you really want some ways to remove Keranos and destroy a leyline of sanctify post SB, but who does other things as well. Currently I've 3 outs maindeck (2 Sultai Charm 1 Pulse), + Golgori charm and Utter End sb, so 5 outs to a Leyline, and I feel it's the bare minimum.
For the questions asked higher:
- I'm a fan of Iona main, but I don't think you should worry too much about which color to name vs tri-color decks, because most of the time you simply won't even try to reanimate (and will board it out). For the rare times where you really need to do it against one of these, try to at least play a discard spell before it, so they need to topdeck a solution.
- I wouldn't cut crime/loam, as it's really important in some matchup. Actually, there are usually two kind of matchups, the ones where you gift for a fatty to reanimate, and the ones where you go for Crime/loam/X/Y. Usually my other two cards are tec edge and souls. I feel that most of the time "gift for value" (4 removal, or like thragtusk/rites/X/Y) isn't really good enough, especially to come back when you're behind on the board.
- I wouldn't play noxious revival, nor Eternal Witness actually. Your deck is already full of one of's you need to play, I don't think you should add too many cards that are too situational.
- Lord Azanko, yes tar/pit (or even a fetch) look better than urborg in your deck. Are you happy of the new jace? It looks pretty nice. Maybe tasigur would be good too.
For the people playing the deck on mtgo: Is the clock a good enough reason to keep the grid in (assuming you would consider taking it out if not for clock reasons)?
Also, regarding blind milling: if the opponent's deck doesn't really care about any of the graveyard, what would be the reasons to not do it? I feel the not only does it shorten a bit the game if we got to the point of milling them, but it give us more option in case we later draw a ruin/codex/noxious/extraction. I maybe wouldn't do it if I was running a tutor, but here we don't care much if a card is in our graveyard or still in our deck.
Is there an in/out guide anywhere that I could read regarding sideboarding? I usually never treat them as exact science, but I feel it always helps when you start with a deck (especially a combo one), to see what people take out.
Just built that, will give it a shot in the next days on mtgo. first game, game1 leyline of sanctify. Great, good start.
Ok, I've a way to win (and agains that matchup, mono W enchants, it was enough) in Bell, but it sounds like a huge problem no? sure we've 1-2 enchantment removal in sb, but losing the discard + many of our cards really hurt.
Another question, as we're mostly a combo card, it's not easy to know what to take out without affecting too much the deck. I think remembering that in his latest video Cheon said that Zac suggested removing a mox and a ?? (codex I think) in case you need to shove some numbers, thought seize probably when you can't afford the life loss, sometimes probably pyrite/gharipur, but apart that I'm not very sure. Also, against what decks do you really want the 4th needle? It looks good vs Tron and some fringe decks, but apart that I'm not sure either.
Sorry if the questions have already been discussed, I read Zac's AMA (thanks for doing it btw!), and some pages here but not all the 135
Well, I'm not even saying that playing 61 is the most optimal thing (I don't think it is), but I prefer it to changing my mana ratio/cutting the wrong card. A few interesting reads on the subject: and . Also in his report after wining GP Kyoto, Gab Nassif wrote:
I still like 61 cards. In testing it seemed like we were getting flooded with 33 spells and 27 lands and screwed with 34/26. I know it sounds dumb but that's the feeling Mark and I had. After a lot of games I decided I did not like Courier's Capsule as it was a bit too slow and did not always do enough so 26 lands and one or two copies of Capsule wasn’t an option either. ManuB end up cutting a Wall of Reverence (a choice with which I disagree) but I just stuck with 61 cards.
Also, keep in my that 1) you don't "need" to draw Gifts (even if it helps). Also, the theory (and it's what Chapin rightfully says) is you should cut your worst card, to improve your odds to draw your bad ones. Here it's a bit weird, as my "worst card", at least the one I really don't want to draw, is clearly Iona, and Elesh to a lesser extend. Playing 61 decrease that risk. Of course it's super marginal, but it decrease the also marginal effect of drawing less often your good cards because you play 61.
For the questions of the previous message:
a) In my version it's mostly a race of them burning me vs me trying to reanimate Iona, at least G1. Caryatid helps me a ton in this matchup, blocking and accelerating my reanimation plan. If I don't draw gifts, I can sometimes steal some close games with discard into thragtusk. Lilliana sometimes buys some times. But G1 on the draw is really tough if they don't flood.
b) I find this matchup pretty good actually. Liliana is obviously huge vs them, and between spot removal (that you need for dryad arbor/kor) discards and decay/charm/pulse, you usually live long enough to make it happen. Sometimes you can manage to keep they creature x/2 and gift into Elesh too. If you need a sb card, Engeneered explosives might be what you want, and is useful in other matchups. If you really want a back to nature, fracturing gust at least is huge vs Affinity, but you need to be able to cast it before dying.
c) I think I had it for some time, it's of course good vs jund, but baneslayer is nearly as good, but is a great card vs burn, affinity, etc. Also between thought seize and liliana, you might often die before being able to cast it. GGW can also be annoying at times. It's not an awful choice, but I wouldn't recommend it.
d) Terastodon is indeed the good fatty. Stony Silence is a great SB card vs them
And I 3-1'd another daily while writing this
Edit: it looks I can't post links, if you want to read that, google for "olivier ruel 61 cards" (reflecting rule) and "patrick chapin 61 cards" (the russian roulette) both were on ssg.
Mindslaver seems really too expensive. If I could afford another coloreless land (which I don't think I can), I might play an academy ruin for for batter skull and engineered explosive (even if I'm not sure both would be played maindeck).
Regarding my 61 cards decklist, I can't really say "that is the 61th". However if I really had to cut a card, the most likely possibilities would be. more or less in that order:
- the 4th inquisition
- the 2nd snapcaster, which is actually the last card that made it to the deck, but I'm pretty happy of having it.
- the 2nd lingering soul.
- A land, probably twilight mire. But I think I prefer playing 25 lands,even with 4 caryatids.
- Damnation get sided out in a lot of matchup, but I feel it still belong as it's quite important in some. And I would need it in SB, where finding a room is always tough (here candidates would probably be 1 of cranial extraction/duress/negate).
- the second sultai charm, but as explained I feel I need it because of leylines.
However I don't mind that much playing 61, especially in a control deck like this with tutoring options, so for now my list would probably keep the same.
For blood moon, yes I think it is Worth playing in that format. Also, the matchups where it's good are usually not great ones, so you might need the extra help. And if you play well, you can win most grindy matchups, so it might be worth trying to get some free wins agaisnt bad matchups. It's good against a big part of the metagame anyway, especially on the play.
For the nombo with RiP, well, honestly I don't care that much about it. If I have RiP on the table in the matchups like Dredge, Hollow one, Living End , even storm, I don't care that much if my voices are not as good (and I might sb out witness and/or reveillark). I didn't play agaisnt mardu pyromancer, but I think it hurt them way more than me. The only matchups where I'm unsure is Jund actually. Voice, witness and reveillark are all great cards vs them, and I'm unsure if I want to side one or maybe 2 of them agaisnt it. It's only really good vs tarmogoyf but it's important, and it means we both play with vanilla grizzly bears (my voices and his ooze). Reveillark is still a 4/3 flier which sometimes is good enough, they can't bolt everything, and it makes Kolaghan Command less efficient. There are probably some other matchups where it could be annoying, like some grixis builds.
as I played a quite competitive tournament sunday with a deck and didn't post here lately, I thought it might be useful to make a quick report, and explain my decklist.
I thought my decklist would be published today as I 5-0'd my only competitive league with it, but oddly it wasn't. So, after losing much more than I usually do for a few weeks, here is the list I finally played and currently like:
5 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Wall of Roots
1 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Wall of Omens
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Restoration Angel
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Reveillark
4 Chord of Calling
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Blood Moon
3 Lightning Bolt
Sideboard
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Worship
3 Rest in Peace
1 Acidic Slime
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Blood Moon
2 Choke
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Fiery Justice
Some cards explanation:
4 Voice: I didn't always play the full playset, but with BBE and Jace unbanned I feel it's where you want to be. It's even more obvious if you play Evolution, which I currently don't.
Selfless Spirit: One of the last card to come back in this version, I had only spellskite in that slot, but the spirit might actually be better. They have different roles, but I've to say the Spirit overperformed. I added him mostly only because of Supreme Verdict (and to a lesser degree anger), but it did many things, attacking in the air , protecting important creatures from bolt, etc. I think I'll keep him for some time.
2 Wall of Roots, 1 Omen. I need to have some stuff to make my Resto Angels better and it blocks BBE well, so Omen is pretty good too. Roots is important with 4 chords, and also with Resto angel.
1 Tracker: He replaced a the second witness, and I was really, really happy with the change. I was already playing 2 Courser, these 3 creatures make me play grindy games against Jund and Jace decks, and are solid in many other matchups.
2 kiki: The major problems of these decks is that they can be clunky, and I would often want to cut the second to avoid this a bit. The reasons I added back the 2nd are: 1) it can happen to have the 1st one exiled because of a path 2) With only 1 witness in the deck, if it dies it might be difficult to get it back , 3, as I play 3 resto, It makes me more likely to naturally draw the combo. It's important in linear matchups lIke Tron.
1 Reveillark, was sometimes an acidic slime, but I feel it's more often useful. I might consider cutting it, but as I said I expect to play a lot against BBE and Jace, and it's good in that Meta.
2 Nahiri: I tried many , many, many decks with Resto Angel and Kiki Jiki, and in all of them I try to have 9-12 cards among things like Restoration Angel, chord, Collected company, PW's or Being to Light, allowing me to "go over the top" once I have a mana or board advantage. I really would love to play Jace, as I felt I was in a perfect spot to play it (I can accelerate it, defend it with some cheap removal and good blockers), but my testing with it wasn't so great. Also, I was happy to play Moon and Magus, so it meant strictly Naya. I am not in love with Evolution at the moment, as I feel it's better when your goal is to combo fast than to grind, BtL is clunky (for those of you talking about playing it higher: Lotus Cobra goes really well with it, and is a pretty good card anyway). Nahiri does many important things, acting as removal sometimes (and sometimes I need to remove opposing blood moon, I am happy to have outs to worship without needing to board one, etc), letting me go ahead on an even board, or cycle useless cards like Blood Moon in some matchups, Extra birds, etc. His Ultimate can come fast and is very threatening, and you usually win when you use it of course.
3 bolts: I want some cheap removal, it's important to answer some creatures of the format and to protect Nahiri. I much prefer it to Path, mostly because I often use it early against things like Dark Confidant. being able to go to the dome is also very important now with Jace, an I often finish people with it.
SB:
3rd Blood moon. Obviously there against Tron and Valakut, I might consider cutting it if I need the space
2 ghostly prison 1 fiery justice. I had 3 cunning spakrmage for some time, that I kinda liked but didn't love. My theory with them (or staticaster) is that they are much better in multiples so I like playing 3 (letting me chord a second, or blink one with resto, to kill other things than x/1's). I didn't play enough against aggro in the 13 rounds I played since playing them again, but I am not sure that it's the best option. If I play something else, I'd strongly consider playing again an Engineered Explosives.
2 Choke. I really liked the 1st one, not sure the 2nd belongs. Jace decks don't have that many islands, but even locking 1-2 is often enough.
Acidic Slime/Qasali. Restoration Sage is the best "disenchant", but I like to be able to board some artifact removal to not lose to an ensarning bridge of decks like burn, or something similar, so I want artifact removal on a decent body. Maybe one of them is too much, I like having both for now. Having both let me side Acidic slime against jund, where it's usually pretty decent.
So, my tournament, 117 people in Geneva (Switzerland), there are 3-4 of these every year, it was the biggest ever, with many people who travelled a bit to come there.
Round 1, Grixis: I win the 1st game pretty quickly. The second one we both mulligan (maybe even one of us to 5), I am in a spot where I have blood moon and choke (nice nombo) but can't draw my 3rd land for two straight turns while he's tapped out. I managed to land a blood moon while he have no blue, survive a Pia, and manage to kill him before he can find a bolt or Command to finish me. 1-0
Round 2, Jund. I am much behind game 1 after a mull on the play, but he floods a bit and I can come back and win. Game 2 he mulls, keep a questionable hand and dies after failing to draw his second land. 2-0
Round 3, GW hexprooof. I win Game 1 only because of Blood moon. I don't remember much of game 2 but I won, probably because of worship. 3-0
round 4, UG Infect. I win game one, combing fast after disrupting him a bit. I lose game 2 super fast after a spell pierce on a key spell. Game 3 is close, I can't ever tap out to represent many stuff, but don't take too many poison counters. A key moment is on turn 5 or so, when he use a fetch end of my turn to go for breeding pool (he didn't do it the turn before), letting me play blood moon (or magus) the turn after, and I win a bit later. 4-0.
Round 5. GR Ponza. He floods a bit game 1, and maybe mulligan game 2, I win both game very easily with good hands. 5-0.
Round 6. 117 players means 5-0-1 isn't 100% in, but looking at the pairings we saw we are 4 players at 5-0, there are 17 at 4-1. So we can draw and hopefully the paired down player would lose, or it could happen also the round after. Maybe not the best decision, but we all ID. 5-0-1
Round 7, a bit of a tricky situation. We're still 4 at 16 points, 9 are at 15. One guy (player a) has better than tiebreaker than us (b c d), he offers a draw to player B, who ask us if it's safe to accept. It's actually not so great, because if we all draw and the paired down player win, we are 6-9. If we play, at least we've a shot at 1st seed, and are still in if the paired down player win. So we all start playing, I am against Mono U tron, I win the first game, lose the second one. At the end of the second game, Player B wins against player A. As he have better tie-breakers than us by far, it means than if the paired down player win, loser of our game is nearly out for sure. So we don't take the risk and draw. Player A is obviously pretty unhappy and think what we did is unfair. While it seems a bit borderline and I understand his frustration, I think most players would take a draw there if it means being sure to be in the top8. 5-0-2
Quarter final, some kind of Naya Zoo, no Company (voice, reliquary, bloodbraid, Thalia,..). I win game 1 after playing some good blockers early, and game 2 after a worship that he can't destroy.
Semi Finals, RG Hollow one. I win game 1 after playing enough defensive creatures to block until I combo, lose game 2 to after conceding turn 2 to a busted draw, and win a close game 3, he has a pretty good start but I am able to survive thanks to a ghostly prison that slowed him a lot.
Finals, Jund. I again come back from a tough start to win game 1. I don't remember much about game 2 but I lost, but win the 3rd one . I win 10 shock lands and 20 fetches, so about 350$ worth of cards.
Hope it can help some
Among the many built I played in the last 1-2 years (one of them making you run worship in a sag
Didn't play lately so really not sure it's worth it, the mana might be a bit harder, but with death shadow being probably the most important aggro deck at the moment, it feels much better than bolt vs them. I also like having some removal that let me kill an important creature early game (bob, etc) without having to use a path, and it's really useful on the nahiri plan.
Rémy
Funny, because I also came on this thread to read or maybe ask about it. I also like Nahiri a lot, and was wondering if it's still worth playing it over Evo. 4 nahiri's + emrakul + some evo's and chord seem to be a bit too much, especially as it'd mean removing removals to fit the creatures we need, while removal is often important to let nahiri live. Also, I think I prefer black atm too, but I like being able to play an exarch, as an out to enchantments or artifacts in combinaison with a nahiri.
And in more mainstream lists, did anyone consider playing some bolts instead of path? I find I often want to remove something early game, when I'm not willing to use a path.
Interesting list, and congrats for that result.
However I've a question, after removing the green: What's your plan against a leyline of sanctify (apart dodging it, which could be the plan
There are actually a few things I like in his version. I started playing Grixis again yesterday (only 3 matches in a league so not sure yet if Ill continue and get to a list I like), but I borrowed the idea I saw online of 3 ensnarning bridge in SB, and it looks really good. Most creature decks won't have much ways to remove it, if any, and then even if killing them would be slow it shouldn't be too much of a problem (I play 2 Liliana too, which might help in these situations). I think I'll add 2 slaughter's game (or 1 and a surgical extraction) to go with this plan, as it can be a way to remove their outs, while doubling as a very useful tool vs combo decks. It could be especially important vs the ones playing World Breaker (but they will often have ancient grude too, and maybe even Ulamog, so RG will be much tougher to beat probably).
I re-added them mostly because of the grixis control matchup, as they are nearly GG there. The deck was one of the most important 2 months ago, but lost some % of the metagame since that, so I might reconsider them in the future. Well, they are not too bad against Grixis Twin, but I can't really afford to bring 3 of them against that deck. The fact they play the new Jace makes it even better however.
It's also very important against living dead, which still holds some metagame %, and against the griselbrand deck, which is much less played. You can also board it against some matchups like the junk company deck (they can't combo you, it's good vs voice, it's harder for them to attrition you with witness, etc).
Caryatid is one of the most important card of the deck (the only one I always play 4 with Gifts actually), I started with 2, added a third then a 4th, and never looked back. It has the very important to give you some much needed insurance against blood moon. I actually nearly never lose against blood moon, fetching basics pretty agressively, and won more games because it annoyed my opponent than I lost to it.
Worship is actually pretty bad vs them, as they usually side the spell that let them destroy all enchantments for free (forgot the name, patriarch something I think).
Well, you've some dedicated hate, as Eidolon is the best card vs them. Apart that bringing as many annoying card as possible vs them is usually enough, I actually kinda like the matchup, not always easy for them to get 5 mana in time + keep the 2 card combo (but I play many collectors, it helps). It's tough to see without seeing the whole game, but I think I would try to play the eidolon a bit earlier, rather than need to slow myself so much to be able to chord for it at any time.
Well, you're probably giving me way too much credit
Anyway, here is the decklist I am playing atm. The only changes from my last tournament (the WMCQ) is -1 Creeping Tar-Pit + 1 Urborg, to try it again (I'm not sure it's necessary, and celestial colonnade is an option as well. It's more expensive to use but can kill a Liliana in one shot. It doesn't happen often however, I mostly played it when I had wrath or baneslayer maindeck).And -1 Duress + 1 dispel, also trying that one.
I'm considering removing a lingering soul for another threat. Could be Baneslayer (but it's expensive and WW can be tough), Tasigur (but I often need my lands in the grave) or Batterskull (but K Command is in the format, even if it 2 for 1 us anyway usually). I'm really unsure what I want in this slot for now.
But as I said, honestly I'm not super happy with the deck at the moment, and if I play it at the RPTQ it would be only if I don't really like anything else. I'll play it in Bangkok btw, if anyone knows the asian metagame I'd love to hear about that; I heard it's a little bit more aggro than in other places, but the meta is anyway kinda the same everywhere, with a bit of everything.
I played gifts quite a lot this summer, including 2 IRL tournaments, winning a PPTQ (going 9-0) then coming close in the WMCQ. I was about to win my quarters where my opponent found clever to call the judge because my sleeves weren't new. Sleeves were ok, but it turned out my leylines of the void were old, a bit bended and one of them was kinda identifiable, so she took the quite harsh decision to DQ me. But it was still 15-1 with the deck, in a quite competitive setting.
I wasn't really convinced my the deck at the moment, with the meta being a little bit more hostile than it used to be. People now seems to play jund again rather than junk which is much better (because of their outs to Iona, and their lingering souls), a little bit less of merfolk, so maybe it's better.
Did anyone really try bring to light? Here is the version I was trying:
I feared adding 2/3 more cards with a casting cost of 5 might be a problem, and it indeed was. The deck is already clunky enough that I didn't love having another 5 mana sorcery. Adding a color was also a slight annoyance (nothing too complicated as I removed a tar pit for a blood crypt, but still). To compensate I tried to add two birds of paradise again (and LSV was doing it too), but I was never impressed by them and it didn't change. They make fetching a bit more painful (as ideally I'd fetch black t1 for discard, and often need a dual there as I can't know if birds will die), and give a target to our opponent's removal.
Also, they didn't really feel like extra copies of gifts, as you really don't want to play it as a sorcery to get the reanimation package.
I of course liked having access to some hate cards in the SB however, but overall I wasn't impress. BTW rhino + baloth was just something I was trying, usually I've two leyline of Sanctify here. Not sure yet what I really want as a burn hate, I usually don't love timely reinforcement either, but something is needed.
I will try again my version without bring to light, to see if I would run it at the RPTQ Bankgok. I'm not convinced, but as I'm not convinced by anything in modern, might as well play one of the decks I know the best. I might try to play again a baneslayer MD instead of the second souls, but here again it's a 5CC spell, sometimes difficult to cast. Really useful in some matchups however, and I don't consider playing Batterskull again, because of K.Command.
Also, there is one card probably none of you play but that I would really advice, it's utter end in the SB. 4mana is 1 too much for a removal, but you really want some ways to remove Keranos and destroy a leyline of sanctify post SB, but who does other things as well. Currently I've 3 outs maindeck (2 Sultai Charm 1 Pulse), + Golgori charm and Utter End sb, so 5 outs to a Leyline, and I feel it's the bare minimum.
For the questions asked higher:
- I'm a fan of Iona main, but I don't think you should worry too much about which color to name vs tri-color decks, because most of the time you simply won't even try to reanimate (and will board it out). For the rare times where you really need to do it against one of these, try to at least play a discard spell before it, so they need to topdeck a solution.
- I wouldn't cut crime/loam, as it's really important in some matchup. Actually, there are usually two kind of matchups, the ones where you gift for a fatty to reanimate, and the ones where you go for Crime/loam/X/Y. Usually my other two cards are tec edge and souls. I feel that most of the time "gift for value" (4 removal, or like thragtusk/rites/X/Y) isn't really good enough, especially to come back when you're behind on the board.
- I wouldn't play noxious revival, nor Eternal Witness actually. Your deck is already full of one of's you need to play, I don't think you should add too many cards that are too situational.
- Lord Azanko, yes tar/pit (or even a fetch) look better than urborg in your deck. Are you happy of the new jace? It looks pretty nice. Maybe tasigur would be good too.
Also, regarding blind milling: if the opponent's deck doesn't really care about any of the graveyard, what would be the reasons to not do it? I feel the not only does it shorten a bit the game if we got to the point of milling them, but it give us more option in case we later draw a ruin/codex/noxious/extraction. I maybe wouldn't do it if I was running a tutor, but here we don't care much if a card is in our graveyard or still in our deck.
Is there an in/out guide anywhere that I could read regarding sideboarding? I usually never treat them as exact science, but I feel it always helps when you start with a deck (especially a combo one), to see what people take out.
Ok, I've a way to win (and agains that matchup, mono W enchants, it was enough) in Bell, but it sounds like a huge problem no? sure we've 1-2 enchantment removal in sb, but losing the discard + many of our cards really hurt.
Another question, as we're mostly a combo card, it's not easy to know what to take out without affecting too much the deck. I think remembering that in his latest video Cheon said that Zac suggested removing a mox and a ?? (codex I think) in case you need to shove some numbers, thought seize probably when you can't afford the life loss, sometimes probably pyrite/gharipur, but apart that I'm not very sure. Also, against what decks do you really want the 4th needle? It looks good vs Tron and some fringe decks, but apart that I'm not sure either.
Sorry if the questions have already been discussed, I read Zac's AMA (thanks for doing it btw!), and some pages here but not all the 135
Also, keep in my that 1) you don't "need" to draw Gifts (even if it helps). Also, the theory (and it's what Chapin rightfully says) is you should cut your worst card, to improve your odds to draw your bad ones. Here it's a bit weird, as my "worst card", at least the one I really don't want to draw, is clearly Iona, and Elesh to a lesser extend. Playing 61 decrease that risk. Of course it's super marginal, but it decrease the also marginal effect of drawing less often your good cards because you play 61.
For the questions of the previous message:
a) In my version it's mostly a race of them burning me vs me trying to reanimate Iona, at least G1. Caryatid helps me a ton in this matchup, blocking and accelerating my reanimation plan. If I don't draw gifts, I can sometimes steal some close games with discard into thragtusk. Lilliana sometimes buys some times. But G1 on the draw is really tough if they don't flood.
b) I find this matchup pretty good actually. Liliana is obviously huge vs them, and between spot removal (that you need for dryad arbor/kor) discards and decay/charm/pulse, you usually live long enough to make it happen. Sometimes you can manage to keep they creature x/2 and gift into Elesh too. If you need a sb card, Engeneered explosives might be what you want, and is useful in other matchups. If you really want a back to nature, fracturing gust at least is huge vs Affinity, but you need to be able to cast it before dying.
c) I think I had it for some time, it's of course good vs jund, but baneslayer is nearly as good, but is a great card vs burn, affinity, etc. Also between thought seize and liliana, you might often die before being able to cast it. GGW can also be annoying at times. It's not an awful choice, but I wouldn't recommend it.
d) Terastodon is indeed the good fatty. Stony Silence is a great SB card vs them
And I 3-1'd another daily while writing this
Edit: it looks I can't post links, if you want to read that, google for "olivier ruel 61 cards" (reflecting rule) and "patrick chapin 61 cards" (the russian roulette) both were on ssg.
Regarding my 61 cards decklist, I can't really say "that is the 61th". However if I really had to cut a card, the most likely possibilities would be. more or less in that order:
- the 4th inquisition
- the 2nd snapcaster, which is actually the last card that made it to the deck, but I'm pretty happy of having it.
- the 2nd lingering soul.
- A land, probably twilight mire. But I think I prefer playing 25 lands,even with 4 caryatids.
- Damnation get sided out in a lot of matchup, but I feel it still belong as it's quite important in some. And I would need it in SB, where finding a room is always tough (here candidates would probably be 1 of cranial extraction/duress/negate).
- the second sultai charm, but as explained I feel I need it because of leylines.
However I don't mind that much playing 61, especially in a control deck like this with tutoring options, so for now my list would probably keep the same.