A question for those of you working with M15 templates. One of the common criticisms of the new frame, even voiced earlier in this thread, is that the black bar at the bottom, while fine on black cards, is distracting and out of place on cards of other colors. Take Narb's recent Tarmogoyf in the M15 frame--what if that bottom wasn't solid black, but solid green? In theory, that would solve the concern about having the bottom line be machine-readable, while blending more naturally into the card. Is that something you all could demonstrate with a tweak in the template?
(2) When reading a thread, the hierarchy of forums at the top of the page are not clearly hierarchical. I can tell when I inspect closely that there's a light grey arrow between the levels, but it's not particularly clear. It just looks like a list of forums, not that different from the bar of links at the top of each page.
(3) The "Reply to this Topic" box at the bottom of the thread is essentially solid grey. A lighter color for the text-entry box (like, almost white) would make it look more familiar, like most text-entry boxes.
(4) I agree with earlier posters that the line spacing within paragraphs and after paragraphs is too much. EDIT: WHILE I was typing this post, the within-paragraph line spacing was large (like 1.5 lines--not fully double-spaced); AFTER I posted it, the within-paragraph line spacing shrunk to single-spaced.
Is anyone going to GP DC this weekend? I might (but not for the main event), and if so, it'll be my first majorin-person sanctioned event in 10 years. I've played nothing but cube and MTGO since.
There are two prevailing approaches to block cubes. One is to mimic the limited environment for the block, which tends to include multiples of uncommons and commons (something like 3x commons, 2x uncommons, 1x rares and mythics). The other is to whittle the block down and go singleton. My Full Mirrodin cube (all 6 Mirrodin sets) follows the latter approach.
Long time, no post. Today, I've updated my main page to reflect the last two months of tinkering. (Many of these changes went up on Cubetutor contemporaneously.)
Lots of things to note. Mainly, I cut from 480 to 455 (and am considering a deeper cut to 400.) In addition, I've recategorized some cards from guilds to mono-sections (like Far // Away in blue, Fulminator Mage in red). There's also an Academy Rector suite that I hope Theros will improve upon, although we all like it now.
June 26, 2013
Indrik Stomphowler --> Strangleroot Geist
Craterhoof Behemoth --> Wolfir Avenger
Thirst for Knowledge --> Academy Ruins
Impulse --> Psychatog
Keldon Vandals --> Manic Vandal
Final Fortune --> Gorilla Shaman
Crater Hellion --> Searing Blaze
Trading Post --> Sensei's Divining Top
June 30, 2013 (big cuts)
Vraska the Unseen
Coiling Oracle
Desolate Lighthouse
Loxodon Hierarch
Copperline Gorge --> Burning-Tree Emissary
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Judge's Familiar
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Slayers' Stronghold
Steppe Lynx
Cataclysm
Sublime Archangel
Terminus
Gifts Ungiven
Unburial Rites
Capsize
Old Man of the Sea
Liliana of the Dark Realms
Nantuko Shade
Crypt Ghast
Fire Imp
Guttersnipe
Goblin Settler
Devil's Play
Goblin Patrol
Wolfir Silverheart
Wolfir Avenger
Devoted Druid
Ohran Viper
Pyroclasm --> Bonfire of the Damned
Invisible Stalker --> Looter il-Kor
ADD --> Vault of the Archangel
July 18, 2013 Copy Artifact --> Aetherling
Searing Blaze --> Turn // Burn
July 22, 2013
Vampire Hexmage --> Blood Scrivener
Knight of the Reliquary --> Voice of Resurgence
Child of Night --> Vampire Interloper
Disciple of Bolas --> Graveborn Muse
July 28, 2013 ADD --> Precursor Golem
Revoke Existence --> Academy Rector
Prime Speaker Zegama --> Mystic Snake
Gavony Township --> Mirari's Wake
Naturalize --> Sylvan Library
Vinelasher Kudzu --> Elvish Mystic
Zealous Conscripts --> Chandra, Pyromaster
Keldon Marauders --> Imperial Recruiter
Mizzium Mortars --> Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
@ movexig: I think I'm fine with the consequence that Immunity nullifies auras, even though it would not prevent you from targeting the Immune creature with an aura. That's counterintuitive, but if the only solution is to carve out static abilities/effects, it would cut too deep. Nullifying continuous static abilities is one of the main points of the design.
@ atmwarrior: The aim of my post is to find out whether or not Immunity occupies real design space or whether it would generate a lot of rules questions. As it seems to me now, the broad variation of the mechanic is straightforward: it negates a lot--a LOT--of effects, but it does not generate as many questions because it track one's intuition about what Immunity inherently means.
That said, I take your point that Immunity might not pass the fun test in the end. It is Spike-oriented because it has costs and benefits that vary depending on one's deck or the board state. Hexproof and Indestructible are all upside mechanics, by contrast.
Perhaps a solution is not to keyword the mechanic and grant it to creatures as an ability. Instead, it could be implemented on an instant. Something like
<Until end of turn, target creature gains shroud and is unaffected by spells and abilities.>
I've been mulling a (narrow) keyworded mechanic to use on a few cards in a custom set. The idea is like a reverse Shroud -- to make a card that can be targeted by spells and abilities but that is immune from untargeted spells, abilities, and effects. I'm calling it Immunity for now. In effect, a creature with Immunity (1) would not be destroyed by Wrath of God or get counters from Black Sun's Zenith; (2) would be unaffected by Meekstone and Ensnaring Bridge; (3) would not have to attack in response to Goblin Diplomats; and (4) would not get the benefits of Collective Blessing or creature-type lords.
Getting all that into one mechanic might be biting off too much, and I'm open to being told it's overambitious. It seems intuitive, but given the multiplicity of abilities and their effects in the game, it may prove too consternating in practice. Perhaps a focused immunity (say, an immunity from untargeted spells only or from static abilities only) would work if the broadest variant is a rules nightmare. (My assumption is that if the broadest variant is truly a rules nightmare, it is because of granting immunity to a particular type of ability or effect breaks too many rules.)
Here's the simplest reminder text I could come up with for the broadest Immunity:
Immunity (Untargeted spells and abilities don't affect this creature.)
I've intentionally left out reference to "effects" (Rule 609), on the view that the references to "spells" and "abilities" encompass the ensuing "effects" those spells and abilities generate (Rule 609.1). Another reason (I think) to leave out references to "effects" is my understanding that dealing combat damage is an untargeted one-shot effect, and I don't want Immunity to negate dealing combat damage (though it might negate Deathtouch/Wither/Infect).
Sheepishly, I admit we haven't played the Mirrodin Cube since I've rolled out my Unlimited Cube. I have had my eye on Test of Faith, though, since it was included in Modern Masters.
I'm convinced that Grim Return is a seed card, and here is why:
The new legendary rule changes, along with the changes to how legendary permanents refer to themselves, AND with how Wizards is reworking cost-reductions, all support my theory that Theros will have legendary characters that "grow" in a way.
For example, you might have a particular legend, represented on a card at uncommon that you can sacrifice in order to get a discount on a rare version of that same legend. If the uncommon cost 2WW and the rare 4WWW, then you would only pay a difference of 2W to upgrade.
Now, to get back to Grim Return... it seems like the card is intended to let you take over legends that get sacrificed as a result of this process. If you have really powerful upgrade cycles, then a card like this does a great job of taking advantage of that.
Further food for thought comes from the Comprehensive Rules Update, which changed Convoke so that it doesn't "reduce" costs but instead "pays" for costs. It was an odd change, especially giving the timing, and suggests to me that Theros will indeed have some sort of cost-paying mechanic (as opposed to a cost-reducing one).
In the Oracle update announced today, Matt Tabak explained that these cards will soon get an errata update making them slightly more powerful. They will affect all cards "originally printed" in Homelands, Arabian Nights, and Antinquities, rather than only cards "actually" printed in those sets. (Thus, as he exemplifies, a 4th Edition Bird Maiden and an Arabian Nights Bird Maiden will be treated the same way by City in a Bottle.)
Any speculation on whether the errata will increase value of any of these cards? Anti-Urzatron tech in EDH, for instance? I wouldn't expect a radical price jump, but also wouldn't be surprised at some increase (even $1).
One of my drafters thinks the guild sections run a card too deep, each. Any thoughts on cutting the following 10? I've put a star next to the ones that feel hardest to cut, in that I thought the while guild section was fine.
I'd cut any of these before I'd cut Strangleroot Geist: Primordial Hydra, Avenger of Zendikar, Craterhoof Behemoth, Obstinate Baloth, Wolfir Silverheart, and Indrik Stomphowler. I think you are running too many 5+ mana cards in green, even if it is the ramp color.
Thanks. I don't entirely disagree that, say, Avenger or Silverheart would be a better cut than Geist. I like Geist, especially in Golgari decks that take a bit more advantage of the Undying, but at the same time, the GG casting cost tends to make Geist a mono-G most often.
By my own analyses, I thought my 5+ mana cards in Green were about right. While my calculations are nowhere near as complete as eidolon's, I took 4 450-card cubes from this site (including Eidolon's), broke out their CMCs per color, came up with ranges and averages, then applied those to my 480-card target.
For green, I expected 7-11 5CMC and 3-6 6+CMC cards in green, for a combined range of 10-17 5+CMCs. I run 12: 10 creatures, 2 spells. (Primordial Hydra is not included in that figure, but I'd classify as a 3 or 4 drop if I didn't classify it as an X-drop.) That might be a bit lopsided or unbalanced as between creatures and spells--I did not base my modeling on creature/spell ratios in the sample cubes. But also did not want to be strictly beholden to their numbers.
Rantipole, I did not use your cube as a model (though it wouldn't be hard for me to add it). You have 11 5+CMC cards in Green.
(2) When reading a thread, the hierarchy of forums at the top of the page are not clearly hierarchical. I can tell when I inspect closely that there's a light grey arrow between the levels, but it's not particularly clear. It just looks like a list of forums, not that different from the bar of links at the top of each page.
(3) The "Reply to this Topic" box at the bottom of the thread is essentially solid grey. A lighter color for the text-entry box (like, almost white) would make it look more familiar, like most text-entry boxes.
(4) I agree with earlier posters that the line spacing within paragraphs and after paragraphs is too much. EDIT: WHILE I was typing this post, the within-paragraph line spacing was large (like 1.5 lines--not fully double-spaced); AFTER I posted it, the within-paragraph line spacing shrunk to single-spaced.
Lots of things to note. Mainly, I cut from 480 to 455 (and am considering a deeper cut to 400.) In addition, I've recategorized some cards from guilds to mono-sections (like Far // Away in blue, Fulminator Mage in red). There's also an Academy Rector suite that I hope Theros will improve upon, although we all like it now.
June 26, 2013
Indrik Stomphowler --> Strangleroot Geist
Craterhoof Behemoth --> Wolfir Avenger
Thirst for Knowledge --> Academy Ruins
Impulse --> Psychatog
Keldon Vandals --> Manic Vandal
Final Fortune --> Gorilla Shaman
Crater Hellion --> Searing Blaze
Trading Post --> Sensei's Divining Top
June 30, 2013 (big cuts)
Vraska the Unseen
Coiling Oracle
Desolate Lighthouse
Loxodon Hierarch
Copperline Gorge --> Burning-Tree Emissary
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Judge's Familiar
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Slayers' Stronghold
Steppe Lynx
Cataclysm
Sublime Archangel
Terminus
Gifts Ungiven
Unburial Rites
Capsize
Old Man of the Sea
Liliana of the Dark Realms
Nantuko Shade
Crypt Ghast
Fire Imp
Guttersnipe
Goblin Settler
Devil's Play
Goblin Patrol
Wolfir Silverheart
Wolfir Avenger
Devoted Druid
Ohran Viper
Pyroclasm --> Bonfire of the Damned
Invisible Stalker --> Looter il-Kor
ADD --> Vault of the Archangel
July 18, 2013
Copy Artifact --> Aetherling
Searing Blaze --> Turn // Burn
July 22, 2013
Vampire Hexmage --> Blood Scrivener
Knight of the Reliquary --> Voice of Resurgence
Child of Night --> Vampire Interloper
Disciple of Bolas --> Graveborn Muse
July 28, 2013
ADD --> Precursor Golem
Revoke Existence --> Academy Rector
Prime Speaker Zegama --> Mystic Snake
Gavony Township --> Mirari's Wake
Naturalize --> Sylvan Library
Vinelasher Kudzu --> Elvish Mystic
Zealous Conscripts --> Chandra, Pyromaster
Keldon Marauders --> Imperial Recruiter
Mizzium Mortars --> Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
@ atmwarrior: The aim of my post is to find out whether or not Immunity occupies real design space or whether it would generate a lot of rules questions. As it seems to me now, the broad variation of the mechanic is straightforward: it negates a lot--a LOT--of effects, but it does not generate as many questions because it track one's intuition about what Immunity inherently means.
That said, I take your point that Immunity might not pass the fun test in the end. It is Spike-oriented because it has costs and benefits that vary depending on one's deck or the board state. Hexproof and Indestructible are all upside mechanics, by contrast.
Perhaps a solution is not to keyword the mechanic and grant it to creatures as an ability. Instead, it could be implemented on an instant. Something like
<Until end of turn, target creature gains shroud and is unaffected by spells and abilities.>
Getting all that into one mechanic might be biting off too much, and I'm open to being told it's overambitious. It seems intuitive, but given the multiplicity of abilities and their effects in the game, it may prove too consternating in practice. Perhaps a focused immunity (say, an immunity from untargeted spells only or from static abilities only) would work if the broadest variant is a rules nightmare. (My assumption is that if the broadest variant is truly a rules nightmare, it is because of granting immunity to a particular type of ability or effect breaks too many rules.)
Here's the simplest reminder text I could come up with for the broadest Immunity:
Immunity (Untargeted spells and abilities don't affect this creature.)
I've intentionally left out reference to "effects" (Rule 609), on the view that the references to "spells" and "abilities" encompass the ensuing "effects" those spells and abilities generate (Rule 609.1). Another reason (I think) to leave out references to "effects" is my understanding that dealing combat damage is an untargeted one-shot effect, and I don't want Immunity to negate dealing combat damage (though it might negate Deathtouch/Wither/Infect).
Further food for thought comes from the Comprehensive Rules Update, which changed Convoke so that it doesn't "reduce" costs but instead "pays" for costs. It was an odd change, especially giving the timing, and suggests to me that Theros will indeed have some sort of cost-paying mechanic (as opposed to a cost-reducing one).
[/CARD][CARD]Apocalypse Chime
[/CARD]
[CARD]
[/CARD][CARD]City in a Bottle
[/CARD]
[CARD]
[/CARD][CARD]Golgothian Sylex
[/CARD]
In the Oracle update announced today, Matt Tabak explained that these cards will soon get an errata update making them slightly more powerful. They will affect all cards "originally printed" in Homelands, Arabian Nights, and Antinquities, rather than only cards "actually" printed in those sets. (Thus, as he exemplifies, a 4th Edition Bird Maiden and an Arabian Nights Bird Maiden will be treated the same way by City in a Bottle.)
Any speculation on whether the errata will increase value of any of these cards? Anti-Urzatron tech in EDH, for instance? I wouldn't expect a radical price jump, but also wouldn't be surprised at some increase (even $1).
Judge's Familiar
Shadowmage Infiltrator *
Blightning
Flinthoof Boar
Gavony Township
Slayers' Stronghold
Desolate Lighthouse
Coiling Oracle *
Abrupt Decay *
Gerrard's Verdict
Thanks. I don't entirely disagree that, say, Avenger or Silverheart would be a better cut than Geist. I like Geist, especially in Golgari decks that take a bit more advantage of the Undying, but at the same time, the GG casting cost tends to make Geist a mono-G most often.
By my own analyses, I thought my 5+ mana cards in Green were about right. While my calculations are nowhere near as complete as eidolon's, I took 4 450-card cubes from this site (including Eidolon's), broke out their CMCs per color, came up with ranges and averages, then applied those to my 480-card target.
For green, I expected 7-11 5CMC and 3-6 6+CMC cards in green, for a combined range of 10-17 5+CMCs. I run 12: 10 creatures, 2 spells. (Primordial Hydra is not included in that figure, but I'd classify as a 3 or 4 drop if I didn't classify it as an X-drop.) That might be a bit lopsided or unbalanced as between creatures and spells--I did not base my modeling on creature/spell ratios in the sample cubes. But also did not want to be strictly beholden to their numbers.
Rantipole, I did not use your cube as a model (though it wouldn't be hard for me to add it). You have 11 5+CMC cards in Green.