"To be perfectly clear, this banned list is only intended for Magic Online Commander. We respect the community roots and oversight of the Commander Rules Committee, and the creation and support of this format is in no way intended to impact paper Commander."
Uhm.. so based on this statement it seems like paper players are still under the "jurisdiction" of DC/Leviathan and this 1v1 commander format is very far from officially sanctioned. I guess this means that whether this format will fly on paper depends on TO's and LGS owners. Which is a far cry from what we were hoping for wherein there would be a standardized format which will unite the playerbase. It looks more like a 3rd subformat. We now have DC rules, leviathan rules, and MTGO rules.
To me is their way of saying "let's see who's better at maintaining a stable format, DC and Leviathan Rules Comittee"
@idSurge, that tempo-ish game pattern with Homunculus is even bigger in the UWR version, since you have Mentor too and more interaction spells. However, in my opinion is the UR version better for a more all in approach, since you are lacking both the creature as interaction spells which a splash offers.
@Namida, just be aware, that it takes some time to get used with Gifts (as you already know from DDFT) + the UR version I brewed is yet a brew, I would need to test it and refine it, which I currently cannot do (neither time nor possibility).
Greetings,
Kathal
I wouldn't compare the gifts approach with DDFT. It's at least one order of magnitude easier to cast gifts and know what to pick. It just takes some tens/hundreds of games to get used to it.
For a player used to play combo, a just a few games will get him the hang of it.
I'm sleeving your U/R version to try in the local scene. Its a shame our local modern tournaments are fewer than they were last year, but this just means there's less practice across the board. PPTQ season is going to catch a lot of people off-guard.
Looking to come back to this archetype. With the bannings, how are we faring vs the field?
I imagine that:
1. BG/x should be good matchups, even though we run creatures. Jace's Sanctum is probably the king here.
2. Infect is pretty difficult (for anyone), but they got hit with the banhammer and that should give us a few %
3. Dredge is no more
4. Delver? Haven't tested much against it.
5. Is tron really that bad? A Ramp deck shouldn't be so strong against control. Should we go with more disruption? Ceremonious Rejection is the best card against them?
PS: Would you guys like to organize a Facebook/Discord/somethingsomething chat to discuss faster?
Permission decks are unwinnable so far. Geist specially.
Titania is a decent matchup, but every other deck seem just to have better spells than us. I still believe the concept, but need a bit more help and fresh ideas.
So... How do you win exactly? Just the Ascension? And why are you not playing Throne of the High City and Regal Behemoth? Or the Dark Depths combo? Or Glacial Chasm?
Because I just threw that list and I forgot the most obvious card choices
TurboFog generally wins by milling out your opponent and drowing him out in fogs, but I see your point. 100 cards slow the milling down. Dark Depths looks good, and the suite of lands allows for the inclusion of Realms Uncharted. I'll look for some extra threats to add while testing.
Edit: Planeswalkers are pretty good with fogs and can act as diversion as well. I'll look into some of them. Gideon Jura is an excellent one.
Hello, guys! With the new Duel Commander 20-life update, things seem to go to a rather aggro predicament. Thinking about going meta, I was taken by the idea of making a Turbo-fog commander. Turns out Selvala, Explorer Returned is perfect for the job!
Pros:
1. She is GW, which have the cheapestfogs in the game.
2. Some of the bestones as well!
3. There are only a few Howling Mine effects in the game and in our color. Blue is their place. Selvala is the only one not named Kami of the Crescent Moon that is a creature.
4. You love playing against aggro decks!
Cons:
1. Permission style decks make you cry.
2. Sometimes winning takes a lot of time.
3. Lots of cards not generally used in commander, so you may have to spend a bit of extra cash.
4. Possibly not even that good against certain decks.
2. We need a certain percentage of our deck as Fog variants. Generally, Fog ran from 10 to 16 fog effects in a 60-card deck, which are 17%-27% of our deck. Translating to 100-cards, this should be, well, 17 to 27 cards.
These are the ones I'm currently running: Angelsong - Cycling is good, specially if you're doing Life from the Loam shenanigans. Arachnogenesis - One of the very best fog effects ever printed. Thank you Commander 2015! Constant Mists - Fog forever with Crucible of Worlds or Life from the Loam (just take care with too much dredging). Dawn Charm - Don't forget that you can regenerate Selvala in a pinch or counter spells that target you! Ethereal Haze - It prevents ALL damage, not just combat. Included for versatility. Fog - Its on the deck name. Holy Day - Colorshifted Fog. Lull - Green Angelsong! Moment's Peace - Two for the price of one. Orim's Chant - Poor man's fog. Titan does not trigger if he doesn't attack! Pollen Lullaby - It's not Tangle, but almost. Respire - Lifegain is relevant in this new format. Safe Passage - Life Ethereal Haze, this one prevents all kinds of damage. It comes at a premium price of 3 mana, though. Snap - Surprise! Spore Cloud - see Tangle Tangle - One of the best, if not the best fog effect ever printed.
3. We also run Fog-Like Effects that, in combination with certain cards, become recursive. Children of Korlis - You have to lose life first, so take care of lethal strikes. Kami of False Hope - See Spore Frog. Spore Frog - We run this because we can tutor it + Kami of False Hope with Ranger of Eos in a pinch and because we can make a fog-lock with Proclamation of Rebirth. Spike Weaver - Three fogs, one card! Sign me in. Can be recurred with Reveillark.
Chronomantic Escape - I'm testing this card. It recurrs itself back, but is a bit expensive for my tastes.
4. There will be times where we won't have Fogs in our hands. We need to take some pressure off. How? Prison effects and Wrathing the board. Meekstone - One mana for such a fantastic effect. Specially good versus Titania. Even if it dies the following turn, it bought you another one, so it's a possible fog with huge potential. Norn's Annex - Its not Propaganda, but I'll take it. Magus of the Tabernacle - 2/6 is HUGE and dodges most removal. Really nice board presence. Magus of the Moat and Moat - I'm not a millionare, so I'm running magus. While not as sturdy as his cousin from the Tabernacle, he can buy you a lot of turns if left unchecked. Moat on the other hand is incredible and wins games by herself vs most red/black decks. Ghostly Prison - White Propaganda. Island Sanctuary - After you stabilish just one Howling Mine effect, this is as good as Moat. Leyline of Sanctity - I don't like being Thoughtseized and Lightning Bolt'd. Solitary Confinement - Combos with Selvala. Windborn Muse - Ghostly Prison with legs.
6 - And add some recursion engines and finishers! Crucible of Worlds - Constant Mist's best friend. Eternal Witness - Get that important card from the grave and add a blocker to the table. Loaming Shaman - Don't deck yourself! Purity - Part Leyline, part big dumb creature with evasion. Ranger of Eos - Get that Frog and Kami for the price of one card. Reveillark - Brings most of your guys from the grave. Life from the Loam - I will dedicate one section for all shenanigans you can make thanks to this card. Proclamation of Rebirth - The weakest link in the list, as it needs Spore Frog and his Kami cousing to work. A bit mana intensive. Luminarch Ascension - It this stays on the table with 4 counters, things end FAST.
I hope this deck calls your attention and interest! I need more people to test it out and to develop this idea or to prove its a waste of time. Let's make this deck!
So far, having a Mine effect on turn 2 is your better line of play possible, so I'm thinking of running all one mana accelerators (Mox Diamond, Chrome, Lotus Petal and Exploration/Burdgeoning) so we can put Selvala on the table one turn faster.
To me is their way of saying "let's see who's better at maintaining a stable format, DC and Leviathan Rules Comittee"
I wouldn't compare the gifts approach with DDFT. It's at least one order of magnitude easier to cast gifts and know what to pick. It just takes some tens/hundreds of games to get used to it.
For a player used to play combo, a just a few games will get him the hang of it.
I'm sleeving your U/R version to try in the local scene. Its a shame our local modern tournaments are fewer than they were last year, but this just means there's less practice across the board. PPTQ season is going to catch a lot of people off-guard.
I imagine that:
1. BG/x should be good matchups, even though we run creatures. Jace's Sanctum is probably the king here.
2. Infect is pretty difficult (for anyone), but they got hit with the banhammer and that should give us a few %
3. Dredge is no more
4. Delver? Haven't tested much against it.
5. Is tron really that bad? A Ramp deck shouldn't be so strong against control. Should we go with more disruption? Ceremonious Rejection is the best card against them?
PS: Would you guys like to organize a Facebook/Discord/somethingsomething chat to discuss faster?
Titania is a decent matchup, but every other deck seem just to have better spells than us. I still believe the concept, but need a bit more help and fresh ideas.
Because I just threw that list and I forgot the most obvious card choices
TurboFog generally wins by milling out your opponent and drowing him out in fogs, but I see your point. 100 cards slow the milling down.
Dark Depths looks good, and the suite of lands allows for the inclusion of Realms Uncharted. I'll look for some extra threats to add while testing.
Edit: Planeswalkers are pretty good with fogs and can act as diversion as well. I'll look into some of them. Gideon Jura is an excellent one.
Pros:
1. She is GW, which have the cheapest fogs in the game.
2. Some of the best ones as well!
3. There are only a few Howling Mine effects in the game and in our color. Blue is their place. Selvala is the only one not named Kami of the Crescent Moon that is a creature.
4. You love playing against aggro decks!
Cons:
1. Permission style decks make you cry.
2. Sometimes winning takes a lot of time.
3. Lots of cards not generally used in commander, so you may have to spend a bit of extra cash.
4. Possibly not even that good against certain decks.
Deckbuilding Principles
1. We want every possible Howling Mine effect. Without Selvala herself, are the following:
Anvil of Bogardan - very good one!
Font of Mythos - a bit mana intensive
Horn of Greed - The worst of all.
Temple Bell - as good, if not better than Mine
Otherworld Atlas - pricy like Font of Mythos, but gets out of hand fast.
Rites of Flourishing - The only green mine!
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea - A land-mine!
[c]Geier Reach Sanitarium[c/] - A land-anvil?
2. We need a certain percentage of our deck as Fog variants. Generally, Fog ran from 10 to 16 fog effects in a 60-card deck, which are 17%-27% of our deck. Translating to 100-cards, this should be, well, 17 to 27 cards.
These are the ones I'm currently running:
Angelsong - Cycling is good, specially if you're doing Life from the Loam shenanigans.
Arachnogenesis - One of the very best fog effects ever printed. Thank you Commander 2015!
Constant Mists - Fog forever with Crucible of Worlds or Life from the Loam (just take care with too much dredging).
Dawn Charm - Don't forget that you can regenerate Selvala in a pinch or counter spells that target you!
Ethereal Haze - It prevents ALL damage, not just combat. Included for versatility.
Fog - Its on the deck name.
Holy Day - Colorshifted Fog.
Lull - Green Angelsong!
Moment's Peace - Two for the price of one.
Orim's Chant - Poor man's fog. Titan does not trigger if he doesn't attack!
Pollen Lullaby - It's not Tangle, but almost.
Respire - Lifegain is relevant in this new format.
Safe Passage - Life Ethereal Haze, this one prevents all kinds of damage. It comes at a premium price of 3 mana, though.
Snap - Surprise!
Spore Cloud - see Tangle
Tangle - One of the best, if not the best fog effect ever printed.
3. We also run Fog-Like Effects that, in combination with certain cards, become recursive.
Children of Korlis - You have to lose life first, so take care of lethal strikes.
Kami of False Hope - See Spore Frog.
Spore Frog - We run this because we can tutor it + Kami of False Hope with Ranger of Eos in a pinch and because we can make a fog-lock with Proclamation of Rebirth.
Spike Weaver - Three fogs, one card! Sign me in. Can be recurred with Reveillark.
Chronomantic Escape - I'm testing this card. It recurrs itself back, but is a bit expensive for my tastes.
Maze of Ith - THE Maze.
Mystifying Maze - The other not-so-good maze.
Kor Haven - Amazing versus Voltron Commanders.
4. There will be times where we won't have Fogs in our hands. We need to take some pressure off. How? Prison effects and Wrathing the board.
Meekstone - One mana for such a fantastic effect. Specially good versus Titania. Even if it dies the following turn, it bought you another one, so it's a possible fog with huge potential.
Norn's Annex - Its not Propaganda, but I'll take it.
Magus of the Tabernacle - 2/6 is HUGE and dodges most removal. Really nice board presence.
Magus of the Moat and Moat - I'm not a millionare, so I'm running magus. While not as sturdy as his cousin from the Tabernacle, he can buy you a lot of turns if left unchecked. Moat on the other hand is incredible and wins games by herself vs most red/black decks.
Ghostly Prison - White Propaganda.
Island Sanctuary - After you stabilish just one Howling Mine effect, this is as good as Moat.
Leyline of Sanctity - I don't like being Thoughtseized and Lightning Bolt'd.
Solitary Confinement - Combos with Selvala.
Windborn Muse - Ghostly Prison with legs.
Martial Coup - A Wrath that puts a clock on the table or several blockers!
Wrath of God - we call them "Wraths" for a reason.
Day of Judgement - strictly inferior Wrath of God.
Austere Command - Versatility!
5 - Add some removal to the mix:
Acidic Slime
Banisher Priest
Oblivion Ring
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Council's Judgment
Return to Dust
6 - And add some recursion engines and finishers!
Crucible of Worlds - Constant Mist's best friend.
Eternal Witness - Get that important card from the grave and add a blocker to the table.
Loaming Shaman - Don't deck yourself!
Purity - Part Leyline, part big dumb creature with evasion.
Ranger of Eos - Get that Frog and Kami for the price of one card.
Reveillark - Brings most of your guys from the grave.
Life from the Loam - I will dedicate one section for all shenanigans you can make thanks to this card.
Proclamation of Rebirth - The weakest link in the list, as it needs Spore Frog and his Kami cousing to work. A bit mana intensive.
Luminarch Ascension - It this stays on the table with 4 counters, things end FAST.
Decklist:
1 Howling Mine
1 Font of Mythos
1 Temple Bell
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Rites of Flourishing
1 Otherworld Atlas
1 Horn of Greed
1 Fog
1 Constant Mists
1 Pollen Lullaby
1 Snag
1 Tangle
1 Angelsong
1 Safe Passage
1 Holy Day
1 Arachnogenesis
1 Lull
1 Moment's Peace
1 Respite
1 Dawn Charm
1 Kami of False Hope
1 Spore Frog
1 Spike Weaver
1 Orim's Chant
1 Children of Korlis
1 Ethereal Haze
1 Spore Cloud
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Chronomantic Escape
1 Purity
1 Windborn Muse
1 Magus of the Tabernacle
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Island Sanctuary
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Meekstone
1 Norn's Annex
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Primal Command
1 Eternal Witness
1 Life from the Loam
1 Proclamation of Rebirth
1 Reveillark
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Martial Coup
1 Acidic Slime
1 Mana Tithe
1 Banisher Priest
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Austere Command
1 Council's Judgment
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Return to Dust
8 Forest
7 Plains
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Temple Garden
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Savannah
1 Canopy Vista
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Command Tower
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Brushland
1 Fortified Village
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Wasteland
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Maze of Ith
1 Kor Haven
I hope this deck calls your attention and interest! I need more people to test it out and to develop this idea or to prove its a waste of time. Let's make this deck!
So far, having a Mine effect on turn 2 is your better line of play possible, so I'm thinking of running all one mana accelerators (Mox Diamond, Chrome, Lotus Petal and Exploration/Burdgeoning) so we can put Selvala on the table one turn faster.
Thanks!