I've yet to test the changes, but the Oaths change the way i approach superfriends and have been analyzing the deck. With the extra loyalty, it becomes easier to hit those elusive ultimates. Also allows me to find CMC 4 artifacts with Tezz, which is fun. I think Displacer will be fine. Someone brought it up to me. How many lands do you run that produce colorless? Or your mana rocks that produce colorless? Count them, you can probably easily hit this ability twice a turn if you choose! So I'm going forward in testing it for the time being. My only fear is not having enough creatures that are good targets for the ability.
I plan to nab Gideon after rotation when he isn't priced at a premium.
I counted only 5 sources for colorless mana (which kinda surprised me actually), doesn't seem that's gonna work out.. Although I run tons of ways to tutor/copy/steal C-producers, I probably want to use those for other targets in many cases.
How is everyones experience with all the new toys from Oath so far?
I'm still a bit reluctant of adding Eldrazi Displacer due to the C. With the mana-color rule change, and stuff like Chromatic Lantern not longer being able to get you C, I'm afraid it'll end up as a dead card. Also, I like my mana base as it is now and don't feel like changing it just for Eldrazi Displacer. Thoughts?
Also, I've thought about the above mentioned synergy of Oath of Gideon + Gideon, Ally of Zendikar which is pretty cool, but not game-winning. I've scanned through all available planeswalkers and not a single other one has a similar synergy (well, I guess one could insta-ult Elspeth Tirel or Tezzeret the Seeker but that's not what we're looking for). So Oath of Gideon will probably end up as a pretty meh token maker most games..
I ended up only adding Oath of Jace and Reflector mage to my list but haven't really seem them in action in the games I played since. So, I'm curious how all you guys's changes worked out!
We mostly play Bang! when we're with 5 or more people. It's based on the card game Bang! and works mostly the same:
[i]The game is played by five to seven players. Each player takes one of the following roles:
Sheriff (x1)
Deputy Sheriff (x1 or x2)
Outlaw (x2 or x3)
Renegade (x1, x2)
My group picked this variant up about a month ago, and it's become our go-to when there are 5+ players. We do different names, though: king, 2x knights, 2-3x bandits, assassin. We've played with a usurper once, which has to deliver the killing blow to the king. Then the king becomes the usurper, the life total becoming 1, and the usurper the king.
Our king begins with 50 life, not 60. It's fun. Makes for fun politicking and creates interesting situations for things that affect the whole board. I'm a big fan of the variant, as keeping super close track of board states and general threat level in a 6+ player free for all becomes ridiculous.
Haha usurper sounds awesome, I'm definitely going to suggest trying it next time! Seems like a pretty tough role though, even harder than Renegade/Assassin.
We mostly play Bang! when we're with 5 or more people. It's based on the card game Bang! and works mostly the same:
The game is played by five to seven players. Each player takes one of the following roles:
Sheriff (x1)
Deputy Sheriff (x1 or x2)
Outlaw (x2 or x3)
Renegade (x1, x2)
The objective of the game is different for every role:
- the Outlaws must kill the Sheriff;
- the Sheriff and his Deputies must kill the Outlaws and the Renegade(s);
- each Renegade's objective is to be the last character in play. The Renegade(s) must kill all the characters with the sheriff being the last one dead.
The roles are defined by land cards dealt at random before the game starts (White = sherrif, Blue = deputy, Black = outlaw, Red = renegade). Only the sheriff shows his card at start, the rest remains secret until you're dead. Sherrif starts with 60 life, rest normally with 40.
For the rest, it's just like normal multiplayer EDH but with much more bluffing and politics.
Anyone got any suggestions on dealing with Omnath, Locus of Rage? I'd say my Marchesa deck used to be the best aggro deck in my shop, but I think I've been overtaken by Omnath. Getting 5/5's for playing lands which a G deck is going to do a bunch of anyway is a real nice ROI.
A friend of me runs Omnath, Locus of Rage and I agree it's a though matchup. In a large multiplayer game he's less of an issue since a lot of people pack mass destruction / bounce. If it's all up to you though, Necroplasm shuts it down but is not easily tutored for at 3cmc. Mass bounce, such as Profaner of the Dead does the trick but is also not that easy to do, at least early game. Also Living Death.
Personally I think my friend is gonna get bored with the deck soon, every game is the same; ramp -> ramp -> ramp -> attack with 10 tokens.
I have a Geth Mono-Black Devotion deck that focuses on producing a lot of mana, abusing geth's ability, and winning by sucking life out of opponents or milling them. I'm about to go to bed, but I will edit this post with suggestions when I get the chance. Thinking quickly, I run a good amount of enchantments to up the devotion aspect of the deck. Polluted Bonds, Underworld Dreams and the usual mana doublers Caged Sun, Crypt Ghast, Nirkana Revenant. Also Thespian's Stage and Vesuva to copy your Nykhos, Shrine to Nyx... Expedition Map to grab the land you need. It's a very fun deck to play. People underestimate Geth and if you can get him protected, he gets pretty crazy when given a lot of mana.
Cool, I'd like to see the list! Agree Geth can get really out of hand quickly. The initial though when building the deck was to focus as much as possible on milling/killing and then beat people with their own cards. I don't know if that would be the best strategy for Geth, but then again that's the reason I posted the list; he deserves some more love on the forums here!
Thx for the reply! You where right about Reassembling Skeleton and Nether Traitor (and bloodghast for the same reason), they're kinda useless here and I'd already taken 'em out before reading your reply Also, after taking those out I removed Oversold Cemetery as well.
The lifegainers (Blood Artist, Falkenrath Noble and Sangromancer), are quite nice actually! A lot of sacrifice shenanigan decks in my meta so they can stay as long as their spots aren't needed.
1. How does this interact with planeswalkers that turn into creatures like Gideon and sarkhan? Does it kill them, return them to the battlefield with the same number of loyalty counters and as a creature but tapped, or does it refresh the walker?
2. How would this interact specifically with a flipped kytheon that has become a 4/4? Does it do the answer to the above, or does it turn back into kytheon?
3. If I blink a manifested non-creature permanent, will it come back into play? I ask because it says it exiles a creature then returns it to the battlefield. This is different from the text of something like flikerwisp in that it specifically says creature, so if it sees it's not a creature does it still come back? This is the same reason I'm asking if this kills walkers that become creatures.
On another note, this is probably the final straw for hangarback walker, I doubt we see it played much if at all after this set gets released.
I also think this will slot right into mardu, flickering pia and goblin dark-dwellers is ridiculous, as well as abbots, and hell, just saving one of your guys form a removal spell is insane. This will be one of the defining cards of the format moving forward.
It 'refreshes' the walker;
You get Kytheon back
You can put the non-creature permanent into play. (Thats why my Brago EDH loves manifest )
Speaking of my Brago EDH.. Hi mr. Eldrazi, plz get in there..!
The following rule applies to Q2 & 3 btw: 711.5. A double-faced card enters the battlefield with its front face up unless a spell or ability puts it onto the battlefield “transformed,” in which case it enters the battlefield with its back face up.
** For the most recent version of the deck, please follow the link in my sig **
So I wanted to build a mono color deck for once, preferably a black one. Also, I didn't want the deck to involve infinite combo's (sorry, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed..)
My meta is having a lot of grave-shenanigan decks so Geth, Lord of the Vault seemed like a solid choice to mess with those decks, and fun to play!
The deck, ramps, mills and blows stuff up, pretty straight forward..
Looking around on the internet, I've found many different builds, none of which seemed optimal. Also, not much Geth-related activity around here.. So if anyone has any suggestions, experiences, or tips to share, please do so!
Changes: 13-01-16:
- Nether Traitor
- Bloodghast
- Buried Alive
- Elixir of Immortality
- Falkenrath Noble
- Oversold Cemetery
+ Vampire Nighthawk
+ Swamp
+ Sword of the Animist
+ Infernal Darkness
+ Reaper from the Abyss
+ Read the Bones
02-02-16:
- Reaper from the Abyss
- Sword of the Animist
- Read the Bones
- Nighthowler
- Darksteel Ingot
- Sword of the Animist
- Bonehoard
- Fleshbag Marauder
- Doomed Necromancer
+ Dregs of Sorrow
+ Walking Atlas
+ Necropotence
+ Terrain Generator
+ Altar of Dementia
+ Rise of the Dark Realms
+ Liliana of the Dark Realms
+ Seer's Lantern
+ Erebos, God of the Dead
Quick question as to why Archaeomancer and Time Warp aren't included for infinite turns?
Personally I don't think the deck needs infinite combo's to win. Adding the cards you mention would require cutting two other, probably better cards (if not using them to combo out that is). Also, that combo requires Marchesa to be in play, having a +1/+1 counter on Archaeomancer, and a sac outlet. Doesn't seem like the most effective combo actually (or do I miss some interaction?).
A while back everyone in our playgroup unanimously agreed to ban infinite combo's; everyone plays highly tuned decks and it kinda got to the point where it wasn't fun anymore. If you happen to assemble an "unintended" infinite combo, you're restricted to use the interaction once. (For example, I run both Strionic Resonator and Sol Ring in my Brago, King Eternal-deck simply because they're both great cards without using them to go infinite).
This turned out to be the best decision ever! Six player games with no one going "oops I win", lead to epic games with a lot of politics and interaction. Also, an unintended but nice side effect is the way tutors tend to be used now: you save them to dig for answers instead of digging for the wincon.
Cool find, Brine Shaman, can't remember ever coming across that card! But then I'd think I would prefer Voidmage Prodigy over Brine Shaman if running it for the counter ability.
I counted only 5 sources for colorless mana (which kinda surprised me actually), doesn't seem that's gonna work out.. Although I run tons of ways to tutor/copy/steal C-producers, I probably want to use those for other targets in many cases.
What CMC 4 artifacts do you run? I only got Phyrexian metamorph and Solemn Simulacrum, who both do not justify an include of Oath of Gideon for me.
I'm still a bit reluctant of adding Eldrazi Displacer due to the C. With the mana-color rule change, and stuff like Chromatic Lantern not longer being able to get you C, I'm afraid it'll end up as a dead card. Also, I like my mana base as it is now and don't feel like changing it just for Eldrazi Displacer. Thoughts?
Also, I've thought about the above mentioned synergy of Oath of Gideon + Gideon, Ally of Zendikar which is pretty cool, but not game-winning. I've scanned through all available planeswalkers and not a single other one has a similar synergy (well, I guess one could insta-ult Elspeth Tirel or Tezzeret the Seeker but that's not what we're looking for). So Oath of Gideon will probably end up as a pretty meh token maker most games..
I ended up only adding Oath of Jace and Reflector mage to my list but haven't really seem them in action in the games I played since. So, I'm curious how all you guys's changes worked out!
Haha usurper sounds awesome, I'm definitely going to suggest trying it next time! Seems like a pretty tough role though, even harder than Renegade/Assassin.
The game is played by five to seven players. Each player takes one of the following roles:
Sheriff (x1)
Deputy Sheriff (x1 or x2)
Outlaw (x2 or x3)
Renegade (x1, x2)
The objective of the game is different for every role:
- the Outlaws must kill the Sheriff;
- the Sheriff and his Deputies must kill the Outlaws and the Renegade(s);
- each Renegade's objective is to be the last character in play. The Renegade(s) must kill all the characters with the sheriff being the last one dead.
The roles are defined by land cards dealt at random before the game starts (White = sherrif, Blue = deputy, Black = outlaw, Red = renegade). Only the sheriff shows his card at start, the rest remains secret until you're dead. Sherrif starts with 60 life, rest normally with 40.
For the rest, it's just like normal multiplayer EDH but with much more bluffing and politics.
A friend of me runs Omnath, Locus of Rage and I agree it's a though matchup. In a large multiplayer game he's less of an issue since a lot of people pack mass destruction / bounce. If it's all up to you though, Necroplasm shuts it down but is not easily tutored for at 3cmc. Mass bounce, such as Profaner of the Dead does the trick but is also not that easy to do, at least early game. Also Living Death.
Personally I think my friend is gonna get bored with the deck soon, every game is the same; ramp -> ramp -> ramp -> attack with 10 tokens.
Well, there is one reason; don't have one at the moment
But it definitely should be on the wishlist!
Cool, I'd like to see the list! Agree Geth can get really out of hand quickly. The initial though when building the deck was to focus as much as possible on milling/killing and then beat people with their own cards. I don't know if that would be the best strategy for Geth, but then again that's the reason I posted the list; he deserves some more love on the forums here!
Walking Atlas and Terrain Generator; great suggestions, completely forgot about those!
The lifegainers (Blood Artist, Falkenrath Noble and Sangromancer), are quite nice actually! A lot of sacrifice shenanigan decks in my meta so they can stay as long as their spots aren't needed.
More suggestions are welcome!
Permanents are put on the battlefield, instants / sorceries fizzle since un-manifesting them does not put them on the stack.
The following rule applies to Q2 & 3 btw:
711.5. A double-faced card enters the battlefield with its front face up unless a spell or ability puts it onto the battlefield “transformed,” in which case it enters the battlefield with its back face up.
So I wanted to build a mono color deck for once, preferably a black one. Also, I didn't want the deck to involve infinite combo's (sorry, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed..)
My meta is having a lot of grave-shenanigan decks so Geth, Lord of the Vault seemed like a solid choice to mess with those decks, and fun to play!
The deck, ramps, mills and blows stuff up, pretty straight forward..
Looking around on the internet, I've found many different builds, none of which seemed optimal. Also, not much Geth-related activity around here.. So if anyone has any suggestions, experiences, or tips to share, please do so!
6 Geth, Lord of the Vault
Artifacts (18)
1 Sol Ring
1 Amulet of Vigor
1 Altar of the Brood
1 Skullclamp
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Expedition Map
2 Fellwar Stone
2 Jet Medallion
2 Thought Vessel
2 Illusionist's Bracers
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Mindcrank
2 Altar of Dementia
3 Extraplanar Lens
5 Gauntlet of Power
5 Gilded Lotus
6 Caged Sun
Creatures (16)
2 Walking Atlas
3 Burnished Hart
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Mortivore
4 Crypt Ghast
5 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
5 Chainer, Dementia Master
5 Magus of the Coffers
5 Ogre Slumlord
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
6 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
6 Harvester of Souls
6 Steel Hellkite
6 Nirkana Revenant
7 Sheoldred, Whispering One
8 Avatar of Woe
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Bloodchief Ascension
2 Animate Dead
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Necropotence
4 Pestilence
4 No Mercy
5 Black Market
5 Exquisite Blood
7 Grave Betrayal
Instants (1)
1 Dark Ritual
Sorceries (14)
2 Dread Summons
2 Sign in Blood
2 Profane Command
2 Exsanguinate
2 Black Sun's Zenith
2 Demonic Tutor
4 Diabolic Tutor
4 Syphon Mind
4 Mutilate
5 Dark Petition
5 Dregs of Sorrow
6 Life's Finale
8 Decree of Pain
8 Rise of the Dark Realms
4 Liliana of the Dark Realms
Lands (39)
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Temple of the False God
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Terrain Generator
31 Swamp
1 Dread
1 Grave Pact
1 Mesmeric Orb
Changes:
13-01-16:
- Nether Traitor
- Bloodghast
- Buried Alive
- Elixir of Immortality
- Falkenrath Noble
- Oversold Cemetery
+ Vampire Nighthawk
+ Swamp
+ Sword of the Animist
+ Infernal Darkness
+ Reaper from the Abyss
+ Read the Bones
02-02-16:
- Reaper from the Abyss
- Sword of the Animist
- Read the Bones
- Nighthowler
- Darksteel Ingot
- Sword of the Animist
- Bonehoard
- Fleshbag Marauder
- Doomed Necromancer
+ Dregs of Sorrow
+ Walking Atlas
+ Necropotence
+ Terrain Generator
+ Altar of Dementia
+ Rise of the Dark Realms
+ Liliana of the Dark Realms
+ Seer's Lantern
+ Erebos, God of the Dead
14-02-16:
- Blighted Fen
- Blood Artist
- Vampire Nighthawk
- Butcher of Malakir
- Seer's Lantern
- Sangromancer
- Infernal Darkness
+ Steel Hellkite
+ Dark Petition
+ Myriad Landscape
+ Burnished Hart
+ Demonic Tutor
+ Nirkana Revenant
+ No Mercy
Personally I don't think the deck needs infinite combo's to win. Adding the cards you mention would require cutting two other, probably better cards (if not using them to combo out that is). Also, that combo requires Marchesa to be in play, having a +1/+1 counter on Archaeomancer, and a sac outlet. Doesn't seem like the most effective combo actually (or do I miss some interaction?).
If you'd want to run an infinite combo, I would add a Triskelion, since every build already runs Mikaeus, the Unhallowed.
This turned out to be the best decision ever! Six player games with no one going "oops I win", lead to epic games with a lot of politics and interaction. Also, an unintended but nice side effect is the way tutors tend to be used now: you save them to dig for answers instead of digging for the wincon.
That being said, we still have Purphoros, God of the Forge and Narset, Enlightened Master decks in our group that seem to be the strongest non-combo decks.