To tell you the honest truth I don't know why you'd want to put in pithing needle against glare (because of glare? I can see them sideboarding those out and if they do, do you want them against greater good or hikori?) because the only reason why you'd be able to lose that matchup is if they have white mana. The guildmage, hokori, jitte, loxodon and yosei is pretty much the only cards that are even bad for you. (and yes that is a decent long list)
That's why I wouldn't mind testing thoughts of ruin. But I would only do so if the ghazi glare deck becomes popular in my metagame. I'd think they're pretty much chaff against most of the other decks.
I think you want to play very aggressive against them, wildfiring every time you have a chance (unless they have a yosei of course) and the same with pyroclasm etc. Even if you can wildifre @ 4 lands to 4 lands I tihnk you need to in this matchup. Maybe I'm approaching this matchup wrong, but to me the white mana just seem TOO key :/
I didn't read the entire thread, but why don't play any break-lands like stone rain or thought of ruin ? They slow down your opponent, and that 's efficient with the steal-lands.
With guildpact which coming, which known changes will occur ?
I see pain-lands => shock-lands, and perhaps dimir signet => izzet signet
and about the bounce-lands ?
I might try testing thoughts of ruin as a sideboard card if enough people show up with glare.dec I don't think this deck can lose to that deck if you keep them of the white mana, which is easier said than done :/
Why do people want limited print runs as judge foils or something? How would that bring in "new blood"?
The price of these cards is high. That means at least one of the following two things is true:
The supply of these cards is scarce
The demand for these cards is high
If you want to reduce the price, what good is it to print 50 copies of each of the cards (which is about how many L4 and L5's there are in the world)? 50 is nothing in an estimated pool of 10000-20000 copies of each of the power cards in existance. But those 50 cards will be collector's items themselves. They won't do anything to the price of power.
Ok so give it out to all judges, 1 per level or something like that. That's more cards
obviously the boiling seas are for the MUC matchup, I was just pointing out that in hindsight I shuoldn't have had them in my board since there were a grand total of 0 of them in that tournament. But if there are MUC players you better be prepard, it's not pretty.
I might end up going to FNM this friday and next friday, see if I can post some more results then
I guess I should have mentioned that MUC and Gifts are like virtually non existant in my meta game too I was really dreading having the three boiling seas in my sideboard when I played the FNM, but in most metagames I'm sure that boiling seas are the nuts
I think in order to maintain Vintage Wizards will have to reprint the good Vintage stuff sooner or later. I'm not saying it has to be today and I'm most certinetly not saying it will be in a chronicles style type of get all your good cards here in one shot deal. Let's face it. There is not enough of the good cards to go around. Cards get broken, someone hogs a whole lot and forget about them etc etc etc. Mishra's workshop used to be a decent priced cards (less than $50) but then unrestrictions caused the card to go through the roof in value + you now needed four of them! And this is of a card that there wasn't that many of in the first place. Five years from now it will probably be almost impossible to get a hold of some of the older cards.
So why not reprint them as judge's foils to all level 4+5 or something like that? They would still be really rare and most definetly pricey, but your injecting need blood into the system. Plus if you make the card you get as a judge foil random (ie. you can randomly get a mana drain or randomly get a black lotus) it would make them really hard to aquire. This would especially help the people outside North America (I lived in Sweden for 20 years and the oldest expansion I ever saw was the dark. Supposedly the older sets were in Sweden too, but hardly in big numbers)
And the people who keep saying that the elder dragons used to be like $25 - so what? Elder dragons are completly unplayable and plummeted in value because the casual collectors of draongs now could get their hands on these dragons fairly inexpensive. I have memories of Ball lightning, strip mine and ivory tower being very expensive too before they got reprinted - doesn't mean it wasn't a good thing.
And yes, I have at one point owned just about all the cards in Vintage ( I never owned bazaar of baghdad because it was the junks back then and I only ever owned one workshop but you get the picture), but have since then sold all my cards twice and thus don't have the cards anymore. I wouldn't mind being able to play vintage for a decent amount of money - as it is right now it's just too damn expensive. I'll take t2 any ol' day. And please, don't compare the least expensive t1 deck with the most expensive t2 deck - it's just not fair. You can play a decent competitive t2 deck for less than $100. Theoretically you could do this in t1 too, but don't expect to win any tournaments with that......
Wow, I thought this thread was dead. I had been considering tidings for some time, so it's good to see that someone else did the testing for me
Am I the only person who still swears by 2x Mikokoro? That card has saved my life more times than I can imagine. The chance of getting 2 in a game is there, but almost negligible compared to the possible rewards.
Also, why cut a searchlight for a Golgari Signet Gwendly? (maybe I'm just attached to the searchlight because mine are all foil :()
I don't like running two of any of the legendary lands since there is always a chance your opponent will drop a moaning well or whatever. It's kind of a paranoid thing, I know, but still
I'm playing the Golgari signet instead of searchlight #3 because I felt that with the addition of Tidings to the mainboard, and Kagemaro to the sideboard, that the deck was just too topheavy. Several times while goldfishing I couldn't ramp up to mana #3 quick enough and it annoyed the hell out of me. It could also be a fellwar stone but I felt that the signet was stronger because the stone sometimes is a dead card.
In my sideboard I chose to play the flashfires over cards like shadow of doubts and the fourth boiling seas because white control decks are very common in my meta game. Which is a matchup that's SO easy it's not even funny.
Game 1:
I pyroclasm away two creatures twice, and on turn 5 I play out a Keiga. After playing a Kokusho on the following turn my opponents scoops, looking really confused what just happened.
Game 2:
I keep a two land hand with pyroclasm in my hand. After I clasm away two creatures I fail to draw a land for quite a few turns. By the time I've got mana for execute it's more or less over.
Game 3:
I execute away two of his creatures but after that fail to draw much juice besides some signets and an annex. When I'm down to less to 10 life my opponent has four lands in play, four creatures, a glorious anthem and zero cards in hand. I draw into a wildfire and get a 5 for 9 (wildfire+3 lands+annex for his 4 creatures+5 lands) and it's pretty much over. He doesn't draw any lands and I draw a tiding which allows me to draw into the dragons plus icy manipulators, good times
Round 2) Mono red burn
My oppponen basically is playing a 20 lands 32 burn 4 wildfire 4 spectral searchlight deck, I question his choice of playing the wildfires with only 20 lands but he seems pretty adement about it. After he loses two games due to wildfire he still defends wildfire *rolls eyes*. Either way he manages to get one win when I tap out at 10 life to play kokusho and he plays the ten damage if they have ten life spell (can't think of name atm) Besides that it's pretty uneventfull.
Round 3) Searing Meditation
One of the better FNM kids is playing a W/R/g version of searing meditation with hondens, vitu-ghazi , searing meditation and the likes. This matchup is so loopside that I manage to win against him after about 10 minutes of playing, and yes that includes both games , sideboarding and just playing at average speed. Flashfires and wildfire is some good I hear.
Round 4) Mono black aggro
He plays a third turn hypnotic spectre and swings with it, I manage to leash it. He pitches a kagemaro for a sickning shoal when I try to swing back with it. After he does that I play my persecute against him. He just looks at it as in 'wtf!' and the game is pretty much a cake walk from there on.
The second game I manage to leash his spectre again, plus he stalls on lands. Wild guess how the game goes for him after stalling on lands? Annex, leashes and icy's keep him out of the game, and then when there's a glimmer of hope, good ol' wildfire shows up again.
T4)
Gifts
He's playing a weird version of gifts, relying more on recurring than more decks (he runs more than one copy of hani kami etc) and that's very mana intensive. When he ends up without both black and blue mana and I wildfire twice in one round he's down to about 15 cards in his library. We count his lands in the graveyard and manages to establish that he only has very few left. He asks what my win condition is, I tell him and he scoops. This game took a grueling 45+ mins since my opponent was playing with the speed of melassis in december, if you know what I mean.
The second game he seems pretty tired and I manage to get about 6 points of damage from a spectral searchlight when he has ways of using the mana. Not that it would matter anyways, since good old Kokusho and Keiga comes for the beats. He manages to Quash all my Wildfires away however (I told you it was a weird version!) , not that it matters
In the finals I play against the kid with the searing meditation deck, but It's way past 2 am at this point and I'm exhausted and I just want to go home so I decide to split with him, giving me the extra booster since we both agree it's a hideous matchup for him.
also, to gwendly:
while overall that was a great list, as much as it would be "cute" if ol' (hur)loony were made a player rewards foil, I would be sorely dissappointed as it would essentially be a waste of what could have been a much better card (at least on par with tog or specter) , not to menton he's lost nearly all of his iconic status for players that started 7th ed or later (i think?) It's bad enough that I'm almost crying whenever I look at the prices on the new judge foils floating around, (deed, angle etc) but If the rewards can't even vaguely compare, well that will just be sad. (i hope this isn't considered a flame, trying to be polite here) Now, if they were to give it out in place of the textless spells or somesuch, that would be pretty cool. But he's not worth 20 events. (Especially since a week ago I was hoping, hoping, hoping that next year's would be deed
I agree that most people wouldn't first of all get what the hype of hurloon is about, and then they would just sob that they missed out on a wasteland/powder keg/psychatog/hypnotic spectre quality card. I personally would find it hilarious And the only reason why judge foils are so much more expensive is because they don't give out as many and it's always the hottest cards. Even hermit druid is like $15+ and it's only allowed in vintage where it's hardly playable :/ Btw, don't worry I didn't feel your whole talking about hurloon as dissin'. I understand that it'll never happen I just thought it would be neat. I guess it's one of those things that I'd more likely to get across irl with facial expressions etc
I really don't see why anyone wants to ban anything in either extended or standard.... I mean, Jitte is powerful but it's not THAT powerful. Same goes for gifts ungiven. It didn't exactly dominate standard at states and it didn't get the ax in Champions block.
As far as extended goes it's as diverse as it was last year. Any one deck can compete, life of the loam and psychatog hardly destroys the format. It's a very nice format if anything
And to however complained about Colossus+tinker, really now.... Colossus is so easy to swords etc. plus it's a three card combo (admittebly not hard to pull of but still) There are far worse cards in vintage at this moment.
I really don't think that Wizards care that much if a $70+ card gets restricted etc either. Cards like Bazaar of baghdad, Mishra's Workshop, Imperal seal etc were all less than $50 each not that many years ago. The fact that new cards have been printed to allow these cards to work much better (ie Mirrodin block for workshop , or allowing portal etc) has made these cards skyrocket in value.
That's why I wouldn't mind testing thoughts of ruin. But I would only do so if the ghazi glare deck becomes popular in my metagame. I'd think they're pretty much chaff against most of the other decks.
I think you want to play very aggressive against them, wildfiring every time you have a chance (unless they have a yosei of course) and the same with pyroclasm etc. Even if you can wildifre @ 4 lands to 4 lands I tihnk you need to in this matchup. Maybe I'm approaching this matchup wrong, but to me the white mana just seem TOO key :/
I might try testing thoughts of ruin as a sideboard card if enough people show up with glare.dec I don't think this deck can lose to that deck if you keep them of the white mana, which is easier said than done :/
Ok so give it out to all judges, 1 per level or something like that. That's more cards
I might end up going to FNM this friday and next friday, see if I can post some more results then
So why not reprint them as judge's foils to all level 4+5 or something like that? They would still be really rare and most definetly pricey, but your injecting need blood into the system. Plus if you make the card you get as a judge foil random (ie. you can randomly get a mana drain or randomly get a black lotus) it would make them really hard to aquire. This would especially help the people outside North America (I lived in Sweden for 20 years and the oldest expansion I ever saw was the dark. Supposedly the older sets were in Sweden too, but hardly in big numbers)
And the people who keep saying that the elder dragons used to be like $25 - so what? Elder dragons are completly unplayable and plummeted in value because the casual collectors of draongs now could get their hands on these dragons fairly inexpensive. I have memories of Ball lightning, strip mine and ivory tower being very expensive too before they got reprinted - doesn't mean it wasn't a good thing.
And yes, I have at one point owned just about all the cards in Vintage ( I never owned bazaar of baghdad because it was the junks back then and I only ever owned one workshop but you get the picture), but have since then sold all my cards twice and thus don't have the cards anymore. I wouldn't mind being able to play vintage for a decent amount of money - as it is right now it's just too damn expensive. I'll take t2 any ol' day. And please, don't compare the least expensive t1 deck with the most expensive t2 deck - it's just not fair. You can play a decent competitive t2 deck for less than $100. Theoretically you could do this in t1 too, but don't expect to win any tournaments with that......
I don't like running two of any of the legendary lands since there is always a chance your opponent will drop a moaning well or whatever. It's kind of a paranoid thing, I know, but still
I'm playing the Golgari signet instead of searchlight #3 because I felt that with the addition of Tidings to the mainboard, and Kagemaro to the sideboard, that the deck was just too topheavy. Several times while goldfishing I couldn't ramp up to mana #3 quick enough and it annoyed the hell out of me. It could also be a fellwar stone but I felt that the signet was stronger because the stone sometimes is a dead card.
In my sideboard I chose to play the flashfires over cards like shadow of doubts and the fourth boiling seas because white control decks are very common in my meta game. Which is a matchup that's SO easy it's not even funny.
3 Kokusho, the Evening Star
2 Spectral Searchlight
1 Golgari Signet
4 Dimir Signet
1 Persecute
4 Annex
4 Dream Leash
4 Icy Manipulator
4 Pyroclasm
4 Wildfire
3 Tidings
4 Shivan Reef
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
2 Mountain
1 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2 Underground River
3 Boiling Seas
4 Execute
3 Jushi Apprentice
2 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
3 Flashfires
I'll do a quick recap:
R 1) WW/r
Game 1:
I pyroclasm away two creatures twice, and on turn 5 I play out a Keiga. After playing a Kokusho on the following turn my opponents scoops, looking really confused what just happened.
Game 2:
I keep a two land hand with pyroclasm in my hand. After I clasm away two creatures I fail to draw a land for quite a few turns. By the time I've got mana for execute it's more or less over.
Game 3:
I execute away two of his creatures but after that fail to draw much juice besides some signets and an annex. When I'm down to less to 10 life my opponent has four lands in play, four creatures, a glorious anthem and zero cards in hand. I draw into a wildfire and get a 5 for 9 (wildfire+3 lands+annex for his 4 creatures+5 lands) and it's pretty much over. He doesn't draw any lands and I draw a tiding which allows me to draw into the dragons plus icy manipulators, good times
Round 2) Mono red burn
My oppponen basically is playing a 20 lands 32 burn 4 wildfire 4 spectral searchlight deck, I question his choice of playing the wildfires with only 20 lands but he seems pretty adement about it. After he loses two games due to wildfire he still defends wildfire *rolls eyes*. Either way he manages to get one win when I tap out at 10 life to play kokusho and he plays the ten damage if they have ten life spell (can't think of name atm) Besides that it's pretty uneventfull.
Round 3) Searing Meditation
One of the better FNM kids is playing a W/R/g version of searing meditation with hondens, vitu-ghazi , searing meditation and the likes. This matchup is so loopside that I manage to win against him after about 10 minutes of playing, and yes that includes both games , sideboarding and just playing at average speed. Flashfires and wildfire is some good I hear.
Round 4) Mono black aggro
He plays a third turn hypnotic spectre and swings with it, I manage to leash it. He pitches a kagemaro for a sickning shoal when I try to swing back with it. After he does that I play my persecute against him. He just looks at it as in 'wtf!' and the game is pretty much a cake walk from there on.
The second game I manage to leash his spectre again, plus he stalls on lands. Wild guess how the game goes for him after stalling on lands? Annex, leashes and icy's keep him out of the game, and then when there's a glimmer of hope, good ol' wildfire shows up again.
T4)
Gifts
He's playing a weird version of gifts, relying more on recurring than more decks (he runs more than one copy of hani kami etc) and that's very mana intensive. When he ends up without both black and blue mana and I wildfire twice in one round he's down to about 15 cards in his library. We count his lands in the graveyard and manages to establish that he only has very few left. He asks what my win condition is, I tell him and he scoops. This game took a grueling 45+ mins since my opponent was playing with the speed of melassis in december, if you know what I mean.
The second game he seems pretty tired and I manage to get about 6 points of damage from a spectral searchlight when he has ways of using the mana. Not that it would matter anyways, since good old Kokusho and Keiga comes for the beats. He manages to Quash all my Wildfires away however (I told you it was a weird version!) , not that it matters
In the finals I play against the kid with the searing meditation deck, but It's way past 2 am at this point and I'm exhausted and I just want to go home so I decide to split with him, giving me the extra booster since we both agree it's a hideous matchup for him.
I agree that most people wouldn't first of all get what the hype of hurloon is about, and then they would just sob that they missed out on a wasteland/powder keg/psychatog/hypnotic spectre quality card. I personally would find it hilarious
There are still some neat mirage block cards that haven't been foiled out yet. Mystical Tutor, Dwarven miner, Wall of roots, Wordly tutor, Honorable passage, Tithe, Funeral Charm, Abeyance, Disrupt (ok foil in Invasion), Doomsday, Firestorm, Goblin Vandal, Null Rod etc.
Ok some of these are not that hot anymore but they are all decent.
Withered Wretch , Mudhole, Morningtideetc etc etc etc
As far as extended goes it's as diverse as it was last year. Any one deck can compete, life of the loam and psychatog hardly destroys the format. It's a very nice format if anything
And to however complained about Colossus+tinker, really now.... Colossus is so easy to swords etc. plus it's a three card combo (admittebly not hard to pull of but still) There are far worse cards in vintage at this moment.
I really don't think that Wizards care that much if a $70+ card gets restricted etc either. Cards like Bazaar of baghdad, Mishra's Workshop, Imperal seal etc were all less than $50 each not that many years ago. The fact that new cards have been printed to allow these cards to work much better (ie Mirrodin block for workshop , or allowing portal etc) has made these cards skyrocket in value.
Standard:
No change
Extended:
No change
Legacy:
Goblin lackey gets banned
Land Tax gets unbanned
Mind Over Matter gets unbanned
Vintage:
Gifts ungiven gets restricted
Mind over matter is unrestricted
Voltaic key is unrestricted
Purely wild guesses
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=5986