Looking at your 4 color list now, the dig through time seems kind of iffy since of the double blue, though im not entirely sure about how to test a mana base. Im also not really a fan of dack fayden as he seems slow.
Bah, having scrillex be the dark confidant was batter then that boring what's his gface anyhhow. I however dont like that its slower card advantage then morbid or excavation
Wow, amazing primer, thanks so much, here are a few questions I have regarding cards :
- No Dread return ? I guess we have enough reanimate, so understandable.
- No E-Wit? Seems like a solid utility creature, and is good in an intuition package when because with necromany and e-wit, you are getting the card you want.
- No necropotence? I feel that it should remain in this deck. Super good draw card and a great black card overall..
- No Rhystic Study ? Makes sense, it's more of a casual table card.
- NO Damnation !!?! : You have toxic, but it does not seem nearly enough, I'm keeping in Damnation.
- No YawgWin? Similar to E-Wit, it seems very good for this deck to get things back in case things go south.
- My major thing is the lack of fast mana, but we are on a low curve with aggressive Mulligan to get a good hand, so it does make sense. No Mox Diamond/Grim Monolith ?
Allow me to explain some of the reasons as I understand them.
Dread return is too expensive on either cast. WE dont play enough creatures for dread return to work very well and 4 mana is a tough sell when if we can help it have all oyur spells cost 2 or less. For the most part anything over 2 is either cheated in or Rediculously good reagardless.
E witness is a great utility card but it doesnt do what we want it to for it to actually work. Its a little mana intensive wchihc is hard since Green is the color that We dont get nearly as often as U or B since all of our plays rely pretty much on thos ecolors with the exception of a very small sample size, on top of it not actually doing all that much since we wouldnt want to be reanimating it and its past the 2 mana mark.
Also not really room for it.
Necro is in the list as far as I know. It might be coming out later, but i think its better then the alternatives to take out for eldritch evolution and currently thats waht we are arguing about.
We run Pernicious Deed, toxic deluge,Cyclonic Rift, Dark petition, Demonic tutor, Entomb, intution, Lim duls vault, Mystical Tutor, Tainted pact, Vampiric tutor, Muddle the mixture, Jace, Vyrn's prodigy, and Snapcaster mage. On top of that we have a litany of interaction, Spot removal, and draw to either take care of the biggest problem anyways, Find the sweeper, or find a tutor to get the sweeper. And that's if its even actually a problem when we could just go for the win with our tutors. Also its 4 mana and that's too expensive.
Assuming youre talking about Yawgmouths will it only work's if you have infinite mana and its better if you just go and cast tasigur mill your deck, and win via lab man or exiling your opponenets decks via repeating beast within/ reality shift. . Also its more then 2 mana.
We dont need fast mana all that much. Though i wouldnt call sol ring and mana crypt a lack of fast mana.
Ive never had the turn 1 mana crypt into alchemy, so ive never made that comparison. Ponder ican get behind since i feel i have more control over the cards. I dont like to turn 2 tasigur because that usually means i dotn have any interaction or draw. And since I owuld be tapped out i cant threaten coutnerspells. Also unless an opppoinent is going for the win right then I really dont want to force of will a hate card that early. Me having blue mana up appears to slow down the game a lot more then playing tasigur early speeds it up. I certainly like those cards. But if i was comparing 3 drops to others, Fact or fiction/alchemy would be my choice.
I don't get why having Tasigur out turn 2 would be negative. That would mean that you delved away cards that you don't mind not seeing the rest of the game and if you have no plays you have a decent blocker and can generate card advantage into a win. Sure it's not optimal but that's why Tasigur is more of a Plan C than anything. We can have hands that don't do anything for a few turns and giving us a Wall will allow us to not die to combat damage and safe us the life needed for reanimate for 10 life or necro a new hand.
Welgo explains it better than I do why preordian, ponder, brainstorm are great. Pretty much any blue deck with a low curve or combos wants it.
However I have to ask; Welgo, why doesn't Marchesa want it? I played it a long time ago, easily a year plus so I don't remember what I ran but I enjoyed the deck a good amonut
And thats fine. I never said they were bad cards, and i can logically follow the thought process of what makes them great. Preordain ive never been happy casting, on top of the fact that unless you FOW or misstep someones T1/t2 play its actualy impossible to go tasigur turn 2 with just preordain. Fetch1 Land2 Preordain3 Fetch4 land5 is only 5. it's doable if you have crypt, even then i dont want to delve away my lands so early in the game incase of loam. And in the meta im playing, If i dont have constant interaction by turn 2 Id better have mulliganed or things just get out of hand too quickly. i play this list more controlly making sure that whatever other people are playing isnt going to suddenly beat me, and not going for the combo until im sure i can protect it. And in this kind of setup keeping a hand with no interaction beause preordain and being able to get tasi out turn 2 is a great way to get yourself killed. Preordain is good, but that is not the reason why.
Now with that said I think that Despite it being a sorcery I would play Evolution over alchemy because while they both dig, Evolution is a lot better since I can actually play the card i grab more often, and I wont whiff on evolution. Try it out see if it works for you.
Ive never had the turn 1 mana crypt into alchemy, so ive never made that comparison. Ponder ican get behind since i feel i have more control over the cards. I dont like to turn 2 tasigur because that usually means i dotn have any interaction or draw. And since I owuld be tapped out i cant threaten coutnerspells. Also unless an opppoinent is going for the win right then I really dont want to force of will a hate card that early. Me having blue mana up appears to slow down the game a lot more then playing tasigur early speeds it up. I certainly like those cards. But if i was comparing 3 drops to others, Fact or fiction/alchemy would be my choice.
Put Eldritch Evolution in the main deck over Necropotence
Necro is obviously insane but I seem to ditch it often so I put it back on test list for a later time. Evolution is too good to not play in here.
If it's not in your deck already I highly suggest it
A lot of the time Necro feels like a backup Jin and its discard clause makes it feel real bad.
Though responding to removal by paying 10+ life to draw into the other combo pieces i need with no other drawbacks... tough call. If i was you id cut fact oor fiction, forbidden alchemy, preordain, or cyclonic rift. Forbidden alchemy is probably the best, though my gut says preordain. Likely because it has always been underwhelming for me
I don't thoink that BBE does slot into the current jund. There isnt room and kalitas is better. What is BBE better then in the current meta that would warrant a slot over the other 4 drops.
Agreed. BBE is better than Kalitas against control while Kalitas is better against pretty everything else. I'm perfectly fine without BBE since current Jund shell works just fine.
What I want is a more creatures based viable jund deck, rather then the control deck we currently have. There is only one deck that is playable as far as I know if you want to be in those colors, And I think the unbanning of BBE will give access to a different deck that people can play in the jund colors. Compare Abzan midrange to abzan company. Two distinct decks in the same colors. Jund Id like to have somethign similiar to that or a moving away from the non blue control deck that it currently is
I don't thoink that BBE does slot into the current jund. There isnt room and kalitas is better. What is BBE better then in the current meta that would warrant a slot over the other 4 drops.
Allow me to explain some of the reasons as I understand them.
Dread return is too expensive on either cast. WE dont play enough creatures for dread return to work very well and 4 mana is a tough sell when if we can help it have all oyur spells cost 2 or less. For the most part anything over 2 is either cheated in or Rediculously good reagardless.
E witness is a great utility card but it doesnt do what we want it to for it to actually work. Its a little mana intensive wchihc is hard since Green is the color that We dont get nearly as often as U or B since all of our plays rely pretty much on thos ecolors with the exception of a very small sample size, on top of it not actually doing all that much since we wouldnt want to be reanimating it and its past the 2 mana mark.
Also not really room for it.
Necro is in the list as far as I know. It might be coming out later, but i think its better then the alternatives to take out for eldritch evolution and currently thats waht we are arguing about.
We run Pernicious Deed, toxic deluge,Cyclonic Rift, Dark petition, Demonic tutor, Entomb, intution, Lim duls vault, Mystical Tutor, Tainted pact, Vampiric tutor, Muddle the mixture, Jace, Vyrn's prodigy, and Snapcaster mage. On top of that we have a litany of interaction, Spot removal, and draw to either take care of the biggest problem anyways, Find the sweeper, or find a tutor to get the sweeper. And that's if its even actually a problem when we could just go for the win with our tutors. Also its 4 mana and that's too expensive.
Assuming youre talking about Yawgmouths will it only work's if you have infinite mana and its better if you just go and cast tasigur mill your deck, and win via lab man or exiling your opponenets decks via repeating beast within/ reality shift. . Also its more then 2 mana.
We dont need fast mana all that much. Though i wouldnt call sol ring and mana crypt a lack of fast mana.
And thats fine. I never said they were bad cards, and i can logically follow the thought process of what makes them great. Preordain ive never been happy casting, on top of the fact that unless you FOW or misstep someones T1/t2 play its actualy impossible to go tasigur turn 2 with just preordain. Fetch1 Land2 Preordain3 Fetch4 land5 is only 5. it's doable if you have crypt, even then i dont want to delve away my lands so early in the game incase of loam. And in the meta im playing, If i dont have constant interaction by turn 2 Id better have mulliganed or things just get out of hand too quickly. i play this list more controlly making sure that whatever other people are playing isnt going to suddenly beat me, and not going for the combo until im sure i can protect it. And in this kind of setup keeping a hand with no interaction beause preordain and being able to get tasi out turn 2 is a great way to get yourself killed. Preordain is good, but that is not the reason why.
Now with that said I think that Despite it being a sorcery I would play Evolution over alchemy because while they both dig, Evolution is a lot better since I can actually play the card i grab more often, and I wont whiff on evolution. Try it out see if it works for you.
A lot of the time Necro feels like a backup Jin and its discard clause makes it feel real bad.
Though responding to removal by paying 10+ life to draw into the other combo pieces i need with no other drawbacks... tough call. If i was you id cut fact oor fiction, forbidden alchemy, preordain, or cyclonic rift. Forbidden alchemy is probably the best, though my gut says preordain. Likely because it has always been underwhelming for me
What I want is a more creatures based viable jund deck, rather then the control deck we currently have. There is only one deck that is playable as far as I know if you want to be in those colors, And I think the unbanning of BBE will give access to a different deck that people can play in the jund colors. Compare Abzan midrange to abzan company. Two distinct decks in the same colors. Jund Id like to have somethign similiar to that or a moving away from the non blue control deck that it currently is