@Horrible: yeah but the opportunity cost of running 1 Pendelhaven over, say, a Forest, is zero. It just adds an option, the option the hasten 2x your clock at the end of a game that would have went wrong and where you're left with little pump in hand. I been running 1 for a while, thinking of bumping up to two because I'm loosing nothing, and with 2 MB, I dont see the legendary rule conflict happen too often.
that's true, but i almost want to say cathedral is "better" especially if you're running an artifact heavy and full play list apostle's variant.
it's almost a shockland vs mana confluence choice.
you essentially have to "pay 1 mana each turn" to get that +1 trigger with a the added draw back of legendary supertype.
where with cathedral you only "pay 1 colorless" on the turn it comes in. if that makes any sense. Sort of how paying 2 on turn one for a shockland is cheaper than having to ping yourself 1 all game with a city of brass-fluence
in my extensive (100 hours or so) testing, cathedral always out performed pendle, my favorite play being tap cathedral, swing inkmoth for 2 vs games where i only had the pendlehaven and inkmoth swinging for 1.
and there were times where i drew a second pendelhaven which puts you a land behind (tap pendlehaven, activate inkmoth, play second pendlehaven, sac tapped pendlehaven tap for +1/+2) swing. where you could swing with 3 on a second cathedral draw.
when you compare it to a forest the pendlehaven is much better, but forests don't suffer from a blood moon (heavy side board option in storm) or that legend rule draw back. the new legend rule made pendlehaven a completely new card, whereas previously it was an easy cut.
iim waiting to play this deck and modify it next week.
but on the night i made the decision to go with cutting the pendlehaven from my deck i placed 2nd...that night, might just be a coincidence
Looking at these SCG IQ lists infect has been quietly stealing the local casual tournaments gearing up for the bigger events.
4 gitaxian probes are nice on game 1, after that i almost always board them out for something else.
for the dudes running 4 necropede....i find that necropede is my weakest creature, the extra -1/-1 does little to nothing when you LOSE a creature.
-------
also i cut pendlehaven, play testing over and over and over again revealed that a 1/1 with a +1/+2 does nothing with lightning bolt, or path to exile in the meta.
plus i never used the +1/+2 trigger i almost always had something better to spend my mana on, be it a vines of vastwood to hold next turn, a rancor on a ichorclaw or activating an inkmoth
the reality is that pendlehaven wasn't to useful for me. YMMV though.
also pendelhaven loses a lot of synergy with me, i main board 4 might of old krosa, 4 rancor and some cathedral of war. when it comes time to defend the life of a creature pendlehaven falls short, when it comes time to swing my creature is already looking a +4 mainphase 1 buff on him from might of old krosa where used the pendelhaven to pay for it.
it's too little too late. IMHO
also 4 in some of those lists is too many with the legendary land restriction.
i'd cut 2 pendelhaven, and 2 forest for 4 U/G shocks and blighted agent. if you really want utility from lands
then get those damn necropedes out of there and get some blighted agent. then run a few misty rainforests to fetch those lands. i like the idea of running dispel sideboard, mana leak usally kills me when facing UWR, more so than one might think (i want a turn 2 turn 3 win, a mana leak hurts)
Im going to play test with some surgical extraction for a few hours each day and see where i can get it.
this deck might be dead for me though, turns out in a pool of 8 players in my meta 2 newbies walked in holding almost the exact same deck as me....
meaning sideboard hate 3/10 dudes with the same deck = hate it out + the removal they already run in some of those decks (galvanic blasts, bolts, path to exile etc)
Went to my first competitive event ever, after kitchen table, fnm and just store run non-dci sanctioned events.
And I can honestly say that the unsavory attitude at these events has me almost quitting the game.
Some of the phrases I overheard....these guys weren't joking around.
"if they don't see you make an extra land drop it's their fault for not having enough skill to see board state"
"Yeah, you can lie about what a card does and quick play it. I like to give them some attitude so they assume I'm right and not call a judge. Their own fault for not knowing the game"
"I like to lie about how the stack works, or try to piss off the opponent so they are less likely to see me slip a land or draw an extra card"
Are all of these state championships, PTQ and gpt filled with these trashy people? Jesus it's a card game....why are they having to cheat ( I know you guys won't say this is technically cheating or dance around with some bs that slips by with wotc wording, but in my mind this is blatant cheating) at some kids game we are playing for fun. ( some of us)
I like playing my premium deck foil slivers deck in between rounds, doesn't mean I'm going to top 8 a gap anytime soon with it.
No, no you won't. But piloting mono~green infect, you could most certainly place in the top 8. Hence the argument that the deck could be viable, as opposed to "premium deck foil slivers deck".
Premium deck is a magic brand name
Slivers was the name if the deck, foil is what the cards are.
So premium deck slivers all foil deck narrows it down to people who have been playing magic long enough to know what a premium deck is. I know you're a noob but damn, ***** the **** up kid.
My post pointed out the in effectiveness of your statement about it being fun to play casually.
Also you should calm down on these posts. 90% of it is just trash! slaughter horn can be countered! it can have the target switched! and it is not a good card for the deck. Neither is ghor clan or whatever standard trash you're trying to jam into a half baked infect deck to lower the price of a t2 dexk
What does your joy of playing this deck casually have to do with the argument of the decks viability? I like playing my premium deck foil slivers deck in between rounds, doesn't mean I'm going to top 8 a gap anytime soon with it.
I think there is a flaw in judging competitive decks from their performance online.
Many people will spend a ticket to just play casually after work. With their 5-10 ticket infect deck.
That's like judging a cars performance 0-60 on how fast the average driver takes that particular car on the on ramp.
Conditions aren't optimal, not being driven it's absolute best or for sport. Just casual in nature.
I thing heirarch is inherently better/more suited for the meta. But it's usefulness to the deck does not warrant the massive price increase. We're talking a $200+ difference for a play set for paper. Idk what online prices are, usually a lot more reasonable but if you're running hierarch in a local tournament....
someone explain viridian corrupter in the mainboard. isn't it really expensive to run? also since etched champion is protected from it, isn't it a futile attempt?
I run 4 apostle
4 vines
And I side board 4 rangers
@planeswalkerwizard.
Wait for the modern prices to come down next year. You can build it if you want but I'd wait. Actually if you do wait I'll sell you my deck once this season is over
@mrenigmas that deck is called zoo. It's very very good.
Yeah, he had a lot of answers. Swing elf he takes 1, then I try to groundswell he would spell pierce. Or he would remand every pump so like turn 5 or 6 on the second match he's coming out with like 4 counters
Played a pretty big tournament today.
Can you guys help me be a better player?
I went 2-2
Match 1: 0-2 American control
Got probe t1. Saw the bolt saw the helix saw remand.
Ghost quarter pass, popped ghost on colonnade. I lost to cryptic command on my last creature for awhile. Something tells me with a budget like that nothing I can really do will work. But I could suggestions. Personally I am 50% win/loss to control.
Match 2: 2-0 storm
Game 1 git probe and I all I talked about all game was that he was piloting my dream deck. I don't have a lot of money to spend on magic which holds me back. Didn't do much other than empty the warrens for like 7 tokens but I still won because of apostle's blessing. I was jealous of the dude playing it.I wish I could afford that deck, and I wish I were good enough to pilot it in a tournament. Want!
Match 3: tron 1-2
Brand new player to modern not going to lie he kicked my ass up and down. Only tricks I had were blocking and apostle's blessing for pro artifacts and folded. I snuck one game in on a turn 2 swing and pray
to stop lethal I sometimes chump with blight mamba then regen.
should I SB out the mamba for more necro so the chump gets em -2/-2? then claim their cranial?
seems like a 3 for 1 deal that is more glass cannon than my deck.
usually they just win by infect believe it or not (their own inkmoths )
Hey guys I went 2-1 with a budgetversion of this deck. (beating tron NOT BUDGET, and American control *so not budget its not even funny*)
I have 1 problem with a deck archtype called robots.
on my first turn I usually throw a glistener elf out.
however on their turn they can manage to dump their entire hand, or have more than enough chump blockers to get me into some serious trouble.
the memnites tend to chump block, and they have more than enough artifacts to cause protection from everything on
Etched Champion.
meaning I tend to lose to this deck before I even start the game.
I do run artifact hate in the side board, but it's usually a wash between destroying artifacts, or pumping creatures. as I only have 2 forests on the field on my second turn I can't really do much in the way of clearing enough artifacts, especially when their lands count as one.
any other hate I have for the robot deck, just runs into more redundancy as the affinity mechanic is designed for it.
so just to be clear, everyone on the same page. dismember cannot target etched champion, you can't block it, you can't gut shot it, you cannot bolt it, you cannot summnoer's pact it
that's true, but i almost want to say cathedral is "better" especially if you're running an artifact heavy and full play list apostle's variant.
it's almost a shockland vs mana confluence choice.
you essentially have to "pay 1 mana each turn" to get that +1 trigger with a the added draw back of legendary supertype.
where with cathedral you only "pay 1 colorless" on the turn it comes in. if that makes any sense. Sort of how paying 2 on turn one for a shockland is cheaper than having to ping yourself 1 all game with a city of brass-fluence
in my extensive (100 hours or so) testing, cathedral always out performed pendle, my favorite play being tap cathedral, swing inkmoth for 2 vs games where i only had the pendlehaven and inkmoth swinging for 1.
and there were times where i drew a second pendelhaven which puts you a land behind (tap pendlehaven, activate inkmoth, play second pendlehaven, sac tapped pendlehaven tap for +1/+2) swing. where you could swing with 3 on a second cathedral draw.
when you compare it to a forest the pendlehaven is much better, but forests don't suffer from a blood moon (heavy side board option in storm) or that legend rule draw back. the new legend rule made pendlehaven a completely new card, whereas previously it was an easy cut.
iim waiting to play this deck and modify it next week.
but on the night i made the decision to go with cutting the pendlehaven from my deck i placed 2nd...that night, might just be a coincidence
4 gitaxian probes are nice on game 1, after that i almost always board them out for something else.
for the dudes running 4 necropede....i find that necropede is my weakest creature, the extra -1/-1 does little to nothing when you LOSE a creature.
-------
also i cut pendlehaven, play testing over and over and over again revealed that a 1/1 with a +1/+2 does nothing with lightning bolt, or path to exile in the meta.
plus i never used the +1/+2 trigger i almost always had something better to spend my mana on, be it a vines of vastwood to hold next turn, a rancor on a ichorclaw or activating an inkmoth
the reality is that pendlehaven wasn't to useful for me. YMMV though.
also pendelhaven loses a lot of synergy with me, i main board 4 might of old krosa, 4 rancor and some cathedral of war. when it comes time to defend the life of a creature pendlehaven falls short, when it comes time to swing my creature is already looking a +4 mainphase 1 buff on him from might of old krosa where used the pendelhaven to pay for it.
it's too little too late. IMHO
also 4 in some of those lists is too many with the legendary land restriction.
i'd cut 2 pendelhaven, and 2 forest for 4 U/G shocks and blighted agent. if you really want utility from lands
then get those damn necropedes out of there and get some blighted agent. then run a few misty rainforests to fetch those lands. i like the idea of running dispel sideboard, mana leak usally kills me when facing UWR, more so than one might think (i want a turn 2 turn 3 win, a mana leak hurts)
Im going to play test with some surgical extraction for a few hours each day and see where i can get it.
this deck might be dead for me though, turns out in a pool of 8 players in my meta 2 newbies walked in holding almost the exact same deck as me....
meaning sideboard hate 3/10 dudes with the same deck = hate it out + the removal they already run in some of those decks (galvanic blasts, bolts, path to exile etc)
And I can honestly say that the unsavory attitude at these events has me almost quitting the game.
Some of the phrases I overheard....these guys weren't joking around.
"if they don't see you make an extra land drop it's their fault for not having enough skill to see board state"
"Yeah, you can lie about what a card does and quick play it. I like to give them some attitude so they assume I'm right and not call a judge. Their own fault for not knowing the game"
"I like to lie about how the stack works, or try to piss off the opponent so they are less likely to see me slip a land or draw an extra card"
Are all of these state championships, PTQ and gpt filled with these trashy people? Jesus it's a card game....why are they having to cheat ( I know you guys won't say this is technically cheating or dance around with some bs that slips by with wotc wording, but in my mind this is blatant cheating) at some kids game we are playing for fun. ( some of us)
Warning for spamming
-ktkenshinx-
Premium deck is a magic brand name
Slivers was the name if the deck, foil is what the cards are.
So premium deck slivers all foil deck narrows it down to people who have been playing magic long enough to know what a premium deck is. I know you're a noob but damn, ***** the **** up kid.
My post pointed out the in effectiveness of your statement about it being fun to play casually.
Also you should calm down on these posts. 90% of it is just trash! slaughter horn can be countered! it can have the target switched! and it is not a good card for the deck. Neither is ghor clan or whatever standard trash you're trying to jam into a half baked infect deck to lower the price of a t2 dexk
Many people will spend a ticket to just play casually after work. With their 5-10 ticket infect deck.
That's like judging a cars performance 0-60 on how fast the average driver takes that particular car on the on ramp.
Conditions aren't optimal, not being driven it's absolute best or for sport. Just casual in nature.
I thing heirarch is inherently better/more suited for the meta. But it's usefulness to the deck does not warrant the massive price increase. We're talking a $200+ difference for a play set for paper. Idk what online prices are, usually a lot more reasonable but if you're running hierarch in a local tournament....
4 vines
And I side board 4 rangers
@planeswalkerwizard.
Wait for the modern prices to come down next year. You can build it if you want but I'd wait. Actually if you do wait I'll sell you my deck once this season is over
@mrenigmas that deck is called zoo. It's very very good.
Can you guys help me be a better player?
I went 2-2
Match 1: 0-2 American control
Got probe t1. Saw the bolt saw the helix saw remand.
Ghost quarter pass, popped ghost on colonnade. I lost to cryptic command on my last creature for awhile. Something tells me with a budget like that nothing I can really do will work. But I could suggestions. Personally I am 50% win/loss to control.
Match 2: 2-0 storm
Game 1 git probe and I all I talked about all game was that he was piloting my dream deck. I don't have a lot of money to spend on magic which holds me back. Didn't do much other than empty the warrens for like 7 tokens but I still won because of apostle's blessing. I was jealous of the dude playing it.I wish I could afford that deck, and I wish I were good enough to pilot it in a tournament. Want!
Match 3: tron 1-2
Brand new player to modern not going to lie he kicked my ass up and down. Only tricks I had were blocking and apostle's blessing for pro artifacts and folded. I snuck one game in on a turn 2 swing and pray
Matchn4: was a free 2-0 someone left.
should I SB out the mamba for more necro so the chump gets em -2/-2? then claim their cranial?
seems like a 3 for 1 deal that is more glass cannon than my deck.
usually they just win by infect believe it or not (their own inkmoths )
I have 1 problem with a deck archtype called robots.
on my first turn I usually throw a glistener elf out.
however on their turn they can manage to dump their entire hand, or have more than enough chump blockers to get me into some serious trouble.
the memnites tend to chump block, and they have more than enough artifacts to cause protection from everything on
Etched Champion.
meaning I tend to lose to this deck before I even start the game.
I do run artifact hate in the side board, but it's usually a wash between destroying artifacts, or pumping creatures. as I only have 2 forests on the field on my second turn I can't really do much in the way of clearing enough artifacts, especially when their lands count as one.
any other hate I have for the robot deck, just runs into more redundancy as the affinity mechanic is designed for it.
so just to be clear, everyone on the same page. dismember cannot target etched champion, you can't block it, you can't gut shot it, you cannot bolt it, you cannot summnoer's pact it
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
10 Forest
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
2 Necropede
2 Blight Mamba
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Mutagenic Growth
2 Rancor
2 Dismember
2 Unnatural Predation
2 livewire lash
2 Dismember
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rancor
2 Creeping Corrosion
1 pithing needle