^ G/W is the "real" hate bears. idk what UG is, but it sounds like it is an easy matchup since thalia, path, lingering souls (usually a side board card) are not there to lock you out. you also lose a lot of land utility when you cut out white. I don't think your friend is running hatebears, just a deck he brewed up to hate on your infect deck. like the weird america control brews running around like the one that used scry lands and theros gods rather than vendillion cliques, snapcaster mages and fetchlands...that someone played once and claimed america control is nothing compared to infect. (go into the other sub-forums on here and look up the real decklists of the full power decks they are few and far between since modern isn't a huge format but they do exist usually with the older crowd)
hatebears is pretty unwinnable, its america control on steroids.
its not played online as much, which makes it easier for most of the people here. it also rarely see's high end play its more of a local game store deck.
lingering souls, shuts off your inkmoth, especially with a thalia on the field and so many maindeck hate agaisnt you, like the path to exiles which really sucks when you tap 6 land just to get your 2 mutagenic growth in.
one thing to watch for is the untapped noble hierarchs and all of the fetch lands they run. don't swing into a resto angel flash if they have a fetch, a noble hierarch untapped.
also the guy out here runs a playset of goyf idk if you guy locally does, so if you need to hold those pump spells back to weaken that goyf since thalia pretty much shuts off dismember, or a resto angel blinking a goyf so you don't have a target
there are a few more combat tricks but basically play around it and hope to count to 10.
if you're playing at a high level event its a non-issue though, like at a GP if you have those 2 byes probably won't run into the deck
i usually have no problems with twin decks, i don't run wild defiance
snapcaster can't stop an inkmoth and in response to vendillion burn all of your pump
i have played games agaisnt tron where my opening hand had 3 might of old krosa in it and i let out an audible sigh
it's just not a great card to draw agaisnt a deck that mainboards spellskites and then sides in a full playset.
playing the stack, is really just a polite way of exploiting your opponents lack of understanding of the complex game rules. giant growth is generally a better card to maindeck if your userbase is filled with less experienced in competitive play, newer and younger players
otherwise agaisnt dudes who know whats up, might of old krosa gets you to 10 faster.
youre not going to trick a legacy player into bolting a glistener elf with 1 forest open on your turn, but you will bait the high school kid who is an fnm grinder
they probably don't bat an eyelash at 4x misty, 4x breeding pool, and whatever high end cards they desire
if noble hierarch were a $0.50 card it would be an auto include in infect.
back when rancor was $12/playset many infect lists didn't feature them
Thanks for the advice! I'm thinking of playing 4x Glistener Elf, 4x Ichorclaw Myr and 4x Sylvan Scrying. A hand without infect creature but with Scrying can be considered? Or should we ditch that hand as well?
I also saw decks playing Viridian Corrupter MD to have something vs Spellskite in G1. Useful?
depends on the deck you play agaisnt and the meta.
Viridian corrupter is not an optional effect, if you have an ichor on the field it will be destroyed by your own corrupter hitting the field.
with control you generally want to poke at them since they're constantly aiming to 2/3 for one your creatures
going all in only to see a path to exile or a well timed lightning bolt
by well timed i mean you casting giant growth on your creature, them responding with the bolt your creature dies before the giant growth resolves, hits the graveyard you're out 2 cards...for his one.
vines will stop the twin combo for 1, single turn
chances are that if you're using vines of vastwood on their creatures you're not in good shape.
also, this trick doesn't work with a spellskite on their board.
play anyway you like, but aggressively muligan, you need to see a win in that hand. you don't have time to wait to draw a second land, or a glistener elf or the first pump spell
Next week there is a local FNM Modern event which I would like to attend. I'm sleeving up a standard Mono-Green infect list (since it's not that expensive, which allows me to try out the format without too much initial investment) but I have almost no experience in modern tournaments. I have been reading through this thread and picked up some useful info but I was wondering if there are any particular tips / tricks which you can give me. I don't the meta at the event / store so anything to prepare me a bit would be helpful
muligan aggressively, if you can't win with the hand you have ship it. chances are you'll only see 2-3 more cards before you win or lose. (most likely lose).
don't be afraid to scoop when a lingering souls, thoughtseize, inquisition or spellskite lands the board to conceal information about your deck, they don't know what the S/B if you don't needlessly grind out a game 1 that you're going to lose anyways.
they don't know if you're running an artifact heavy mono-green list. or a creature and fetchland heavy U/G list running hierarchs or if you're running the BUG version.
grinding out a game 1 with a spellskite on board or a t1 then a turn 2 thoughtseize you should scoop to keep that info not-public
Im sure its probably good enough to crush noobies at your FNM, but it cant do anything outside of that.
im going to get alot of hate for saying this but, infect is my only modern deck.
I've played it for 6 months straight. (people that defend the infect deck in modern have played it only a fraction of the amount i have played it as most get tired of being the "poor kid" at the table. but since i am the poor kid at the table, i can't afford anything else right now)
this sentance alone and the paragraphs you had mentioned explain infect so much, everything half decent is a bad matchup, any player that knows what the hell magic cards even are is a bad matchup.
and like others have alluded to in this thread earlier, it does get tiring to play.
I have the deck fully sleeved, fully pimped but i cower at COMP REL events as i don't stand a chance.
and everyone just links the one time someone did well with the deck ONCE who was running hot, in a degenerative meta with a skilled player. And argue that a tier 3/4 budget deck is amazing and a force to be reckoned with....but it's not. because your meta knows what you're playing next friday and it's an auto scoop to everything on g2
I don't think you are in position to call someone bad if you think that "nothing we have can't deal with blockers" in affinity. Really? Apostle's blessing is death's sentence for them. Nothing THEY have can stop it, except winning the die roll and having a really good hand.
in the hands of a great pilot, affinity should have no problem racing infect.
Your smartass remark about apostle's blessing a 2-4 of in a the main deck being a "death sentence" for affinity usually isn't that big of a deal, since a good pilot can gal blast your pro artifact creature away and chump block-sac +1/+1 counter you to death.
affinity is a deck that requires a great pilot though, so many people buy it hearing it's a tier 1 deck that doesn't require fetchlands, and is a deck that is recommended to a lot of newer players wanting to get into modern at the competitive level. Infect is a tier 2 usually tier 3 deck (infect used to compete back when shoal was legal).
I could say the same thing about infect - in the hands of good pilot, it has no problem racing slower aggro deck that is affinity.
If Infect would lose to a single spell like galvanic blast, nobody would play it. Just about every instant in your maindeck counters it. And imo blessing should be 4-of in maindeck in monogreen, both because it is useful against creatures and spells, and because you can cast it via cathedral/nexus. UG has better options though. Also I wonder what is a "good pilot". The one who always draws his galvanic blast? Affinity easily keeps hands without blast game 1 (And rightfully so, because it can race most decks in the format. But not infect.)
And Affinity is recommended to a newer players? Really? It is a MOST complicated deck in a format, requires a freaking lot of decisions, and a very experienced in a format pilot. Most new players cannot even diffenrentiate between a mulligan hand and a snap-keep-goldfish one (myself included, lol ). And infect with shoal is completely different deck from monogreen. It is like lumping together monogreen and monoblack infect because "they are both infect!"
A good affinity pilot does not just do nothing on t1, they should be baled to deal 10 damage in turn 2 if they go all in. Which is rare, if they don't play a mox opal ( I'm guessing the kid you played is playing opal-less and etched champion less build.) you hold galv blast when the infect player taps out to pump during his race, then 2 for one him. Or 3 for one him when he's going all in attempting to trample over an etched champion blocker.
When facing a good player, you should not have enough of a clock to
Holdback and waiting till you have a lethal then go all in with apostles. You shouldn't.....
Affinity is the deck recommended to poet entail spikes wanting to get into modern, as it's "only" a $650 deck to be in contention at ptqs and other higher end events. That is recommended more to spikes while the kid playing pile of red starter deck cards might be recommended the b/w token event deck.
Can someone tell me why infect is being considered Tier 2-3 when it's still hitting top 8?
Top8 at scg iq and store level events does not attribute to the tier list.
Not enough people play it on the pro tour and do well with it for it be be considered half decent.
I don't think you are in position to call someone bad if you think that "nothing we have can't deal with blockers" in affinity. Really? Apostle's blessing is death's sentence for them. Nothing THEY have can stop it, except winning the die roll and having a really good hand.
in the hands of a great pilot, affinity should have no problem racing infect.
Your smartass remark about apostle's blessing a 2-4 of in a the main deck being a "death sentence" for affinity usually isn't that big of a deal, since a good pilot can gal blast your pro artifact creature away and chump block-sac +1/+1 counter you to death.
affinity is a deck that requires a great pilot though, so many people buy it hearing it's a tier 1 deck that doesn't require fetchlands, and is a deck that is recommended to a lot of newer players wanting to get into modern at the competitive level. Infect is a tier 2 usually tier 3 deck (infect used to compete back when shoal was legal).
Also U/W control sounds like a home brew standard cross over for a modern event. Especailly since it had no path to exile, playing last breath instead which is cute. Im guessing 3 cmc counterspells were also in that deck. and mutavault rather than colonnades
How do you guys deal with spellskite in opponent's mainboard?
hold your pump spells poke at em.
i've won games where a spellskite was on board discarding pump spells.
keep in mind, spells that say "you control" can be targeted by spellskite but not redirected, if they target it, make them pay the 2 life and then proceed to do nothing for that life paid. also pendlehaven's effect can't be redirected so after a few turns 3 poison from ranger's guile and pendlehaven add's up.
Round 1 vs RG tron 2-1
G1: Pretty easy, he had no interaction with my creatures other than pyroclasm
G2: Had a soft hand that I probably should've mulligan to 6. He pyroclasmed my only two creatures. I protected one but then he dropped karn on me and exiled the other.
G3: Ink moth won it on turn 5
Round 2 vs Affinity 2-1
G1: T3 win
G2: He got a pretty awesome hand. T1 he played 5 cards. I played ink moth and he played cranial plating next turn and I took a big hit. Nature's claim slowed him a bit on Cranial Plating but he was too fast by the time I could pump ink and swing.
G3: Had nature's claim to start with and drew another one three turns later. Destroyed his Cranial Plating and his Spellskite. Won off an unblocked ichorclaw myr + rancor + giant growth.
Round 3 vs UW Control 2-1
G1: He mulled to 5, nothing but lands and Gideon. Easy win.
G2: Sided in an unexpected ghostly prison and that shut me down. I kept a no creature hand except ink moth and paying 2 just to attack shut down all of my pumps. Tectonic edge got my ink and then I scooped.
G3: Brought in 2 Nature's Claims for the ghostly prison. Pretty grind match. Came down to me swinging in for the win and he cryptic commanded me. Gutteral Response couldn't have been any more clutch. He didn't expect a counter spell in a green deck.
Tron is infect's best match up. However it sounds like everyone you played gravely misplayed to the poing where they just throw games away.
Tron should put up a good fight between karn, spellskite and pyroclasm. it sounds like your opponent just threw it out there willy-nilly like a dumbass.
karn is supposed to bait you into over extending the board, and getting clasm'd as a result. and if you don't fall for it, you continue to exile their hand away under karn.
karn is also inkmoth removal, did he just literally stand there and decide not to exile inkmoth?!
affinity, hand 1 game 1 this guy does absolutely nothing? really? Affinity matchup where the dude tosses a t1 spring leaf and nothing else is a bad affinity pilot through and through
I mean nothing you have can get through the wall of infinite blockers that turn into +1/+1 counters on protection all colors or their own inkmoth that chumps yours all game as you slowly surrender board preseance.
America control can't deal with a sub-optimal mono-green infect? listen guys, if you don't know the meta, don't run control. IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE META, DON'T PLAY CONTROL. I hear so many people say that UWR control is an easy matchup, but these dudes just straight up netdeck some ***** and expect to go 4-0 without knowing what to path, what to manaleak or what exactly to do with a ******* cryptic command. AY YO CHAD IMA JUST RUN IT LIKE AN AGGRO BURN DECK AYYO
uwr control sides to a burn deck with snapcaster chump blockers and tec edge @ inkmoth.
i personally dislike defiance, 3 cmc is heavy id rather dump a bunch of threats and let them pick/choose which ones to get rid of, 3 creature monty which one am i going to pump type deal
Vines isn't just as a pump, it's a form of protection for your creature + stopping your opponent from casting Splinter Twin. It's not always a pump and I find it very rarely being used as a pump
side out vines for ranger's guile when opponent has spellskite
its not played online as much, which makes it easier for most of the people here. it also rarely see's high end play its more of a local game store deck.
lingering souls, shuts off your inkmoth, especially with a thalia on the field and so many maindeck hate agaisnt you, like the path to exiles which really sucks when you tap 6 land just to get your 2 mutagenic growth in.
one thing to watch for is the untapped noble hierarchs and all of the fetch lands they run. don't swing into a resto angel flash if they have a fetch, a noble hierarch untapped.
also the guy out here runs a playset of goyf idk if you guy locally does, so if you need to hold those pump spells back to weaken that goyf since thalia pretty much shuts off dismember, or a resto angel blinking a goyf so you don't have a target
there are a few more combat tricks but basically play around it and hope to count to 10.
if you're playing at a high level event its a non-issue though, like at a GP if you have those 2 byes probably won't run into the deck
snapcaster can't stop an inkmoth and in response to vendillion burn all of your pump
it's just not a great card to draw agaisnt a deck that mainboards spellskites and then sides in a full playset.
playing the stack, is really just a polite way of exploiting your opponents lack of understanding of the complex game rules. giant growth is generally a better card to maindeck if your userbase is filled with less experienced in competitive play, newer and younger players
otherwise agaisnt dudes who know whats up, might of old krosa gets you to 10 faster.
youre not going to trick a legacy player into bolting a glistener elf with 1 forest open on your turn, but you will bait the high school kid who is an fnm grinder
mono green is the budget version of u/g
by the time someone can afford 4X noble hierarch
they probably don't bat an eyelash at 4x misty, 4x breeding pool, and whatever high end cards they desire
if noble hierarch were a $0.50 card it would be an auto include in infect.
back when rancor was $12/playset many infect lists didn't feature them
depends on the deck you play agaisnt and the meta.
Viridian corrupter is not an optional effect, if you have an ichor on the field it will be destroyed by your own corrupter hitting the field.
with control you generally want to poke at them since they're constantly aiming to 2/3 for one your creatures
going all in only to see a path to exile or a well timed lightning bolt
by well timed i mean you casting giant growth on your creature, them responding with the bolt your creature dies before the giant growth resolves, hits the graveyard you're out 2 cards...for his one.
vines will stop the twin combo for 1, single turn
chances are that if you're using vines of vastwood on their creatures you're not in good shape.
also, this trick doesn't work with a spellskite on their board.
play anyway you like, but aggressively muligan, you need to see a win in that hand. you don't have time to wait to draw a second land, or a glistener elf or the first pump spell
muligan aggressively, if you can't win with the hand you have ship it. chances are you'll only see 2-3 more cards before you win or lose. (most likely lose).
don't be afraid to scoop when a lingering souls, thoughtseize, inquisition or spellskite lands the board to conceal information about your deck, they don't know what the S/B if you don't needlessly grind out a game 1 that you're going to lose anyways.
they don't know if you're running an artifact heavy mono-green list. or a creature and fetchland heavy U/G list running hierarchs or if you're running the BUG version.
grinding out a game 1 with a spellskite on board or a t1 then a turn 2 thoughtseize you should scoop to keep that info not-public
im going to get alot of hate for saying this but, infect is my only modern deck.
I've played it for 6 months straight. (people that defend the infect deck in modern have played it only a fraction of the amount i have played it as most get tired of being the "poor kid" at the table. but since i am the poor kid at the table, i can't afford anything else right now)
this sentance alone and the paragraphs you had mentioned explain infect so much, everything half decent is a bad matchup, any player that knows what the hell magic cards even are is a bad matchup.
and like others have alluded to in this thread earlier, it does get tiring to play.
I have the deck fully sleeved, fully pimped but i cower at COMP REL events as i don't stand a chance.
and everyone just links the one time someone did well with the deck ONCE who was running hot, in a degenerative meta with a skilled player. And argue that a tier 3/4 budget deck is amazing and a force to be reckoned with....but it's not. because your meta knows what you're playing next friday and it's an auto scoop to everything on g2
A good affinity pilot does not just do nothing on t1, they should be baled to deal 10 damage in turn 2 if they go all in. Which is rare, if they don't play a mox opal ( I'm guessing the kid you played is playing opal-less and etched champion less build.) you hold galv blast when the infect player taps out to pump during his race, then 2 for one him. Or 3 for one him when he's going all in attempting to trample over an etched champion blocker.
When facing a good player, you should not have enough of a clock to
Holdback and waiting till you have a lethal then go all in with apostles. You shouldn't.....
Affinity is the deck recommended to poet entail spikes wanting to get into modern, as it's "only" a $650 deck to be in contention at ptqs and other higher end events. That is recommended more to spikes while the kid playing pile of red starter deck cards might be recommended the b/w token event deck.
Top8 at scg iq and store level events does not attribute to the tier list.
Not enough people play it on the pro tour and do well with it for it be be considered half decent.
in the hands of a great pilot, affinity should have no problem racing infect.
Your smartass remark about apostle's blessing a 2-4 of in a the main deck being a "death sentence" for affinity usually isn't that big of a deal, since a good pilot can gal blast your pro artifact creature away and chump block-sac +1/+1 counter you to death.
affinity is a deck that requires a great pilot though, so many people buy it hearing it's a tier 1 deck that doesn't require fetchlands, and is a deck that is recommended to a lot of newer players wanting to get into modern at the competitive level. Infect is a tier 2 usually tier 3 deck (infect used to compete back when shoal was legal).
Also U/W control sounds like a home brew standard cross over for a modern event. Especailly since it had no path to exile, playing last breath instead which is cute. Im guessing 3 cmc counterspells were also in that deck. and mutavault rather than colonnades
hold your pump spells poke at em.
i've won games where a spellskite was on board discarding pump spells.
keep in mind, spells that say "you control" can be targeted by spellskite but not redirected, if they target it, make them pay the 2 life and then proceed to do nothing for that life paid. also pendlehaven's effect can't be redirected so after a few turns 3 poison from ranger's guile and pendlehaven add's up.
Tron is infect's best match up. However it sounds like everyone you played gravely misplayed to the poing where they just throw games away.
Tron should put up a good fight between karn, spellskite and pyroclasm. it sounds like your opponent just threw it out there willy-nilly like a dumbass.
karn is supposed to bait you into over extending the board, and getting clasm'd as a result. and if you don't fall for it, you continue to exile their hand away under karn.
karn is also inkmoth removal, did he just literally stand there and decide not to exile inkmoth?!
affinity, hand 1 game 1 this guy does absolutely nothing? really? Affinity matchup where the dude tosses a t1 spring leaf and nothing else is a bad affinity pilot through and through
I mean nothing you have can get through the wall of infinite blockers that turn into +1/+1 counters on protection all colors or their own inkmoth that chumps yours all game as you slowly surrender board preseance.
America control can't deal with a sub-optimal mono-green infect? listen guys, if you don't know the meta, don't run control. IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE META, DON'T PLAY CONTROL. I hear so many people say that UWR control is an easy matchup, but these dudes just straight up netdeck some ***** and expect to go 4-0 without knowing what to path, what to manaleak or what exactly to do with a ******* cryptic command. AY YO CHAD IMA JUST RUN IT LIKE AN AGGRO BURN DECK AYYO
bad...so bad
i personally dislike defiance, 3 cmc is heavy id rather dump a bunch of threats and let them pick/choose which ones to get rid of, 3 creature monty which one am i going to pump type deal
side out vines for ranger's guile when opponent has spellskite