turns out lily, smallpox and a little more removal MD and SB was enough, and the fact that topdecking artifact hate on a full board is game over. opponents will almost always have hate for it (affinity, lantern control)
I've also had Waste Not in my board for quite some time but haven't found with which decks I should board them in. Do you have any ideas? or have I just not faced any grixis control decks yet? Tron, maybe?
Hello. I've been on this deck for a while, currently on the smallpox build, 5 removal MD (mix of dismember and Push). I recently had to let go of my lilys to finance other things, and am using the alternative Necrogen Mists. I was wondering if you guys think there is an upside to having just 3 triggers of it at once (Delirium Skeins) or is the constant discard always better?
Has anyone tried a U/R version of the deck? I've been fiddling with it and had some success but no gauntlet testing yet. I will type up the list once i'm on a PC, but the idea is to have polymorph with counter backup, while holding aggro off with bolt/electrolyze/clasm/slagstorm. 'Creatures' are EoT warping wail and ensoul artifact on a darksteel citadel or a mind stone, this also serves as alternate wincons.
Has anyone tried something similar? What are your thoughts?
Thanks for the suggestions. They all have merit. My biggest concern is that smallpox will also hit my lands, and, as someone who's played it with 8rack in modern, and legacy mbc, it's hard to make work with less than 24 land. This also means less food for raven's crime.
You're right, i should probably play more raven's crime. The charms were there for the instant soeed discard, though. Cast at the end of their draw step if that draw is the only card in their hand. With the exception of burn and a very few other spells, they'd either not be able to play the card, or if it is an instant, they'll be forced to cast it at an inopportune time. Almost a timewalk most of the time. This happened a lot in the r/b build above, with the charm and the kolaghan's command.
Will take the mb negate suggestion and try it out, i'll see if it works. Meta's quite creature-heavy, though. Still, i'll give that a shot.
Given all the one and two drops already here, maybe read the bones or phyrexian arena in some numbers?
On and off I have been trying to brew workable versions of polymorph decks. The usual pitfall is you're trying to defend against things that stop the spell, AND things that kill your target. Doing both often is hard to manage, and when the opponent is successful in stopping the combo, the deck is pretty much dead, without an alternate win. Recently there has been no new card to improve the deck, and the best prttection so far has been selective discard (which also shows you if the coast is clear) and some counterspells. There's also this problem with fast aggro.
This isn't the usual approach to waste not, this doesn't want to string into a huge storm count. This was Waste Not purely for value. I sleeved the deck up and it was a blast. The charms and commands often create virtual time walks when the opponent is hellbent, and draws into a lot of value from the discard spells. My build lacked Bobs (replaced by sign in blood), and mikokoro, but was still potent. Playtesting against twin, i won 9 out of 10 matches pre-board. I know this is just one deck so far, but i think that merits looking into.
That got me thinking about the potential of WN on a non-storm deck:
CA against creature-light decks
creature tokens to clog up the board
mana boosts, if the discard was timed correctly. I've ran WN on G/B legacy pox lists and the land discard they do often power a Sorin Markov out
heck, my only creatures there were manlands and a couple of desecration demons, and i win a fair amount. If this r/b deck did not want to abuse kolaghan's command and the 'raise dead' mode, we could probably run no creatures in the deck.
Wait... No creatures? Sounds like time for polymorph!
If we could abuse WN as well as this in the U/B build, and put no actual creatures in the deck, we can probably find space for 3 polymorphs, an emrakul and a progenitus to give it a much stronger wincon. We might not even need the second creature, because of all the ways we can make ourselves discard. Blue might not have burning inquiry, but it does have wistful thinking. We also have access to both piracy and funeral charms.
After brainstorming possibilities, the deck at the top has been what i have come up with.
I have not done testing yet, as i'm still waiting for cards to be shipped and coz my wife gave birth. But will do so once the opportunity presents itself.
Necrogen Mists does a good impression of lily. Also, Blackmail is fine, but a lot worse the first few turns, when you need the disruption the most. From how you described your meta, maybe despise could be good? raven's crime is also a thing.post board, infect's Wild defiance will nullify your bolts, i suggest going for harder removal available to black.
There is a lot of information regarding budget builds and splashes in the primer, which the OP has put in great thought and effort putting up, together with the rest of the folks here. I think that will be a big help to you.
Lastly, i think splashing for more then one color might be pushing it. How's the manabase working for you? One of the things that make 8rack great is consistency,i fear you'd often find the right cards to play but not the mana to pay for it. if you worry of enchantments in your meta, i suggest letting go of red, and focusing on splashing green for Abrupt Decays. You can also up the golgari charms. Black has clasm effects in the form of drown in sorrow and Night of Souls' Betrayal.
I tried dream salvage as a 3-of once, it just takes a little too much effort to set up. Also, by the time you need the draw, your opponent should have pretty much nothing to discard anymore..
I see. You know that is a sign of aging man. Hahaha!
The next major Modern tourney will be a PPTQ on April 11th. I saw: Twin, Abzan and BW Tokens, UW Control, another W Hatebear and one GW deck which I can't classify if it was a Hatebear deck with the Tribal burn cards.
Are those hatebear decks little kid? Or something else entirely?
I posted my assessment of our meta a few posts back. The one with the proposed decklist. You can also Check mtgmanila's fb page, or join the mtg modern group. They don't have summaries of the current meta, but at least they post the top decks. Still, nothing beats being there yourself a few times. Can you share your list? I'mstill undecided on my final 76...
I think it has been discussed before that 8rack is not in dire need of card draw. Also, this makes it harder to keep bridge on. Guess it's hard to say unless you look at the build.
I've also had Waste Not in my board for quite some time but haven't found with which decks I should board them in. Do you have any ideas? or have I just not faced any grixis control decks yet? Tron, maybe?
Has anyone tried something similar? What are your thoughts?
You're right, i should probably play more raven's crime. The charms were there for the instant soeed discard, though. Cast at the end of their draw step if that draw is the only card in their hand. With the exception of burn and a very few other spells, they'd either not be able to play the card, or if it is an instant, they'll be forced to cast it at an inopportune time. Almost a timewalk most of the time. This happened a lot in the r/b build above, with the charm and the kolaghan's command.
Will take the mb negate suggestion and try it out, i'll see if it works. Meta's quite creature-heavy, though. Still, i'll give that a shot.
Given all the one and two drops already here, maybe read the bones or phyrexian arena in some numbers?
First, the deck. Then, the rationale:
4 waste not
3 lily
3 wistful thinking
3 funeral charm
2 piracy charm
1 raven's crime
2 dream salvage
Control
3 IoK
3 thoughtseize
3 mana leak/spell pierce
1 dispel
3 VoN/dismember/other removal
1 damnation
3 polymorph
1 sorin markov
1 progenitus
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
4 polluted delta
2 bloodstained mire
1 flooded strand
2 watery grave
2 island
2 urborg
1 mikokoro
2 blinkmoth nexus / mutavault
7 swamp
On and off I have been trying to brew workable versions of polymorph decks. The usual pitfall is you're trying to defend against things that stop the spell, AND things that kill your target. Doing both often is hard to manage, and when the opponent is successful in stopping the combo, the deck is pretty much dead, without an alternate win. Recently there has been no new card to improve the deck, and the best prttection so far has been selective discard (which also shows you if the coast is clear) and some counterspells. There's also this problem with fast aggro.
While working on R/B discard-themed decks I came across A build by Adrian Sullivan abusing Waste Not:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30971_Burning-The-Midnight-Oil-After-Vegas.html
3 Augur of Skulls
3 Dark Confidant
2 Nyxathid
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (20)
1 Mountain
6 Swamp
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Graven Cairns
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Polluted Delta
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Waste Not
4 Funeral Charm
4 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Dark Confidant
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Terminate
2 Olivia Voldaren
1 Vandalblast
This isn't the usual approach to waste not, this doesn't want to string into a huge storm count. This was Waste Not purely for value. I sleeved the deck up and it was a blast. The charms and commands often create virtual time walks when the opponent is hellbent, and draws into a lot of value from the discard spells. My build lacked Bobs (replaced by sign in blood), and mikokoro, but was still potent. Playtesting against twin, i won 9 out of 10 matches pre-board. I know this is just one deck so far, but i think that merits looking into.
That got me thinking about the potential of WN on a non-storm deck:
heck, my only creatures there were manlands and a couple of desecration demons, and i win a fair amount. If this r/b deck did not want to abuse kolaghan's command and the 'raise dead' mode, we could probably run no creatures in the deck.
Wait... No creatures? Sounds like time for polymorph!
If we could abuse WN as well as this in the U/B build, and put no actual creatures in the deck, we can probably find space for 3 polymorphs, an emrakul and a progenitus to give it a much stronger wincon. We might not even need the second creature, because of all the ways we can make ourselves discard. Blue might not have burning inquiry, but it does have wistful thinking. We also have access to both piracy and funeral charms.
After brainstorming possibilities, the deck at the top has been what i have come up with.
I have not done testing yet, as i'm still waiting for cards to be shipped and coz my wife gave birth. But will do so once the opportunity presents itself.
What do you guys think? Am I onto something here?
There is a lot of information regarding budget builds and splashes in the primer, which the OP has put in great thought and effort putting up, together with the rest of the folks here. I think that will be a big help to you.
Lastly, i think splashing for more then one color might be pushing it. How's the manabase working for you? One of the things that make 8rack great is consistency,i fear you'd often find the right cards to play but not the mana to pay for it. if you worry of enchantments in your meta, i suggest letting go of red, and focusing on splashing green for Abrupt Decays. You can also up the golgari charms. Black has clasm effects in the form of drown in sorrow and Night of Souls' Betrayal.
Are those hatebear decks little kid? Or something else entirely?
Sorry I missed it. When's the next one? And, were there any deck present you saw but didn't face? What were they?