I just added Fastbond to my cube and I'm wondering if I should also include the Bounce Lands from Ravnica. Wouold you include them, and, if so, what would you cut for them?
Currently, I'm running 6 lands per guild, those being:
For allied colors:
-ABU Duals
-Rav. Duals
-Man Lands
-Fast Lands/Temples (depending what I want the combination to do)
-Filter Lands
-Check Lands
(the las 2 cycles are not complete as I included lands like Horizon Canopy or Grove of the Burnwillows)
I think you should create a 'flex' section of 10 lands, one for each guild.
Here you can include Horizon Canopy, manlands for certain colors and bounce lands for some. I would probably include Simic Growth Chamber, Golgari Rot Farm and maybe Izzet Boilerworks.
Another Spells Matter / Token card that could go straight in to these kinds of decks could be Timely Reinforcements.
It could be a great card in a deck with Monastery Mentor / Young Pyromancer / Purphoros and lots of noncreature spells.
A problem could be that it might be too good against aggro and an instant include from a sideboard after 1 game against these decks. Or is that a problem?
I'd play Secure the Wastes first too. It compares well with Tempt with Vengeance I believe.
I do like the 'cantrip' part of Increasing Devotion though. It can be played two times which is nice for Spells Matter as you pointed out.
Duskmantle Seer hits like a truck in the UB tempo deck. Very solid card. I only play Finkel over it in the #5 slot in my cube because it's a pet card of mine.
You gave Dimir Charm a solid evaluation when it was spoiled. Did you try it in your cube for a while? If so, how did it fare?
I've been considering Isochron Scepter as an additional support card. It's good in this deck, and it can be a reasonable card in other decks too.
Awesome! I run all those cards too at 720 except Seeker of the Way, Myth Realized, Guttersnipe and Jeskai Ascendancy. These will be included aswell though (maybe not Myth Realized). I have also included Pearl Lake Ancient and Charmbreaker Devils. Devils may be cut with next update.
I love that this archetype can be played both as aggro/tempo and control. It has been fun for us so far!
Isochron Scepter is great by the way - and it has uses in other decks too. With enough low costed sorceries and instants, it's not hard to find a card to imprint.
I feel like we need a discussion thread for the archetype: Spells Matter. Many cubers have decided to include cards supporting this archetype recently.
Spells Matter decks revolve around cards that does something when an instant, sorcery or sometimes noncreature spell is played. Cheap burn spells in red and cantrips in blue are often used in conjunction with these cards.
But which cards are essential and which are 2nd tier?
I see you added Strangleroot Geist.
Is it easy enough to cast in an aggro deck? It sure is a great target for Collected Company, but I imagine you didn't include it just for that deck?
Could someone explain to me why most people use cards like Disenchant and Seal of Cleansing in white, but not Naturalize and Seal of Primordium in green. I guess it is because green has better options in their creatures?
But does every color need access to artifact/enchantment removal? Black does not really have any options - do you think that is a problem? And would you include a black Disenchant if Wizards made one? What about blue? (I guess counterspells make up for it)
Yeah, I am also a fan of the wurm more than the others because its the best in the most decks and in the most situations. The others have a lot more potential but the fact that you can just play the wurm in a ramp deck or get it out early and do more than the other options gives it a leg up. As for the Don, we might just be super dumb here but most situations you don't want to cast three copies of Beast Within. Sure, there is an optimal way to play it in each situation, but not figuring out the correct line of play in those situations leads to bad feelings or in some situations there is no good way to play the card. Either I don't want to give up my own resources for the sake of a few 3/3s or I don't want the other person to have any 3/3s in exchange for destroying something. There are tons of situations where you can end up ahead after playing it but it didn't end up happening enough for us.
You can choose not to destroy anything. It is a 'may' effect.
Pelakka Wurm is a 7/7 trampler for 7. That's already decent. Then you get 7 life when it ETB and get to draw a card when it dies. There are times that card is better than the other three listed above. Craterhoof is retardedly good in a ramp style and/or token deck, but it's crap in reanimator/sneak attack/NO decks. So that's an arch type support card. Do you need more incentive of the elf ramp or token ramp decks? Or are you looking for a more universally playable fatty? Avenger is more combo friendly. Terastadon is super versatile and is a skill testing card. He's probably my favorite of those listed.
Each card has board states and decks where they shine, that is why every person is posting a different order. They are all high powered cards and depending on what your players tend to build and how your meta plays, that will really determine which of these guys deserves a spot. I recommend you try all of them and see which you end up valuing most.
I think your arguments show that Pelakka Wurm is also an archetype support card - just for ramp/reanimate/cheat-into-play decks instead. I guess maybe it's good in more decks than Craterhoof.
Is Pelakka Wurm really good enough in cube? I play only the top 2 of these (other 6+mana green drops I run are: Primeval Titan, Hornet Queen, Foe-Razer Regent, Woodfall Primus, Genesis Hydra).
I could consider to include Craterhoof for token decks as a late game finisher.
Charm and Duplicate would be my picks too. I would play Electrolyze over Fire // Ice though.
I include all of them in my 720
I run 7 multicolor and 2 hybrid/dualmode/2-color-flashback cards in each guild section. It is more than most people run, but it hasn't been a problem so far.
I think you should create a 'flex' section of 10 lands, one for each guild.
Here you can include Horizon Canopy, manlands for certain colors and bounce lands for some. I would probably include Simic Growth Chamber, Golgari Rot Farm and maybe Izzet Boilerworks.
02 Celestial Colonnade
03 Supreme Verdict
04 Sphinx Revelation
05 Detention Sphere
06 Dragonlord Ojutai
07 Azorius Signet
08 Ojutai's Command
09 Wall of Denial
10 Momentary Blink
02 Psychatog
03 Creeping Tar Pit
04 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
05 Shadowmage Infiltrator
06 Dragonlord Silumgar
07 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
08 Dimir Signet
09 Nightveil Specter
10 Duskmantle Seer
02 Kolaghan's Command
03 Dreadbore
04 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
05 Murderous Redcap
06 Falkenrath Aristocrat
07 Blightning
08 Bituminous Blast
09 Olivia Voldaren
10 Rakdos Signet
02 Sarkhan Vol
03 Xenagos, the Reveler
04 Tattermunge Maniac
05 Burning-Tree Emissary
06 Huntmaster of the Fells
07 Ghor-Clan Rampager
08 Dragonlord Atarka
09 Domri Rade
10 Gruul Signet
02 Voice of Resurgence
03 Mirari's Wake
04 Dryad Militant
05 Qasali Pridemage
06 Knight of the Reliquary
07 Stirring Wildwood
08 Wilt-Leaf Liege
09 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
10 Sigarda, Host of Herons
It could be a great card in a deck with Monastery Mentor / Young Pyromancer / Purphoros and lots of noncreature spells.
A problem could be that it might be too good against aggro and an instant include from a sideboard after 1 game against these decks. Or is that a problem?
I do like the 'cantrip' part of Increasing Devotion though. It can be played two times which is nice for Spells Matter as you pointed out.
You gave Dimir Charm a solid evaluation when it was spoiled. Did you try it in your cube for a while? If so, how did it fare?
Oops yeah . I still think it's worth it, even for small cubes if they support these kind of decks.
Awesome! I run all those cards too at 720 except Seeker of the Way, Myth Realized, Guttersnipe and Jeskai Ascendancy. These will be included aswell though (maybe not Myth Realized). I have also included Pearl Lake Ancient and Charmbreaker Devils. Devils may be cut with next update.
I love that this archetype can be played both as aggro/tempo and control. It has been fun for us so far!
Isochron Scepter is great by the way - and it has uses in other decks too. With enough low costed sorceries and instants, it's not hard to find a card to imprint.
I feel like we need a discussion thread for the archetype: Spells Matter. Many cubers have decided to include cards supporting this archetype recently.
Spells Matter decks revolve around cards that does something when an instant, sorcery or sometimes noncreature spell is played. Cheap burn spells in red and cantrips in blue are often used in conjunction with these cards.
But which cards are essential and which are 2nd tier?
Is it easy enough to cast in an aggro deck? It sure is a great target for Collected Company, but I imagine you didn't include it just for that deck?
But does every color need access to artifact/enchantment removal? Black does not really have any options - do you think that is a problem? And would you include a black Disenchant if Wizards made one? What about blue? (I guess counterspells make up for it)
You can choose not to destroy anything. It is a 'may' effect.
I think your arguments show that Pelakka Wurm is also an archetype support card - just for ramp/reanimate/cheat-into-play decks instead. I guess maybe it's good in more decks than Craterhoof.
Terastodon
Avenger of Zendikar
Craterhoof Behemoth
Pelakka Wurm
Is Pelakka Wurm really good enough in cube? I play only the top 2 of these (other 6+mana green drops I run are: Primeval Titan, Hornet Queen, Foe-Razer Regent, Woodfall Primus, Genesis Hydra).
I could consider to include Craterhoof for token decks as a late game finisher.
I include all of them in my 720
I run 7 multicolor and 2 hybrid/dualmode/2-color-flashback cards in each guild section. It is more than most people run, but it hasn't been a problem so far.