I like this card a lot as well. Probably in the #3-#4 range in Gruul.
I run the top 6 cards and I would rate them something like this (#1/#2, #3/#4 and #5/#6/#7 are pretty interchangeable):
This card goes infinite with Cursed Mirror, a card I just realized existed.
Speaking of Cursed Mirror, I think I will test this card. Maybe alongside Astral Dragon.
Thanks for the quick answers! I'm updating my list at this moment, and I'll cut Spiritkeeper for now then.
Could you elaborate why you think Procession is better? In my experience, the heavy white requirement means that it only makes it to mono-white decks. At the same time, I've been impressed with Spiritkeeper since it gives aggressive decks some protection from wraths. It's been about a year since our last draft, so I might be a little rusty in my evaluation.
Right now, I'm deciding to cut either Spectral Procession or Hallowed Spiritkeeper to include some cards from Kaldheim. I am leaning towards cutting Procession. What do you think?
The only two mill cards that I run in my cube are Altar of the Brood and Altar of Dementia, and I'm not personally looking to add more. Both synergize differently with persist combo since they're either a sac outlet or an etb trigger. I also run Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and some other incidental stuff (JVP and Gyruda), but those are not quite the same speed.
I'm also concerned about parasitism of adding more cards as others noted, although I'd consider something else that was also a sacrifice outlet or something.
Interesting. Does Altar of the Brood only function as a combo piece for persist in this case? Or have you ever seen anyone win a game by incidentally milling just by playing lands/permanents? It seems real slow, so I would guess not.
I'm thinking of it as a subtheme that works in other archetypes more than a full archetype. I have ordered some cards now and I think I will try to find a cut for them in my next update. It will probably only be the crabs in blue and some colorless options (Mesmeric Orb and maybe some of these: Howling Mine, Altar of Dementia, Grindclock, Sands of Delirium, Pyxis of Pandemonium, Codex Shredder). I already play the 3 mana Ashiok in Dimir.
I disagree that it wouldn't be fun to draft. The problem is that most of the mill cards are parasitic (won't work with other strategies).
I have drafted a few times with ZNR on Arena and I have been impressed with what a single Ruin Crab on turn 1 or 2 can do. It blocks the opponent's early attackers and slowly wins the game if they do not kill it. Of course, the power level is different from cube, but it made me think of trying it out. I'm thinking it could actually kill pretty fast in an UG shell with cards like Oracle/Courser/Dryad/Cultivate etc.
Have anyone tried to include a mill subtheme in your cube recently? The printing of Ruin Crab makes me want to try it, but my brain says that it's probably a bad idea. I like many of the symmetric mill effects, that may be useful to enable the new escape mechanic, reanimation and other graveyard shenanigans.
What do you think? Could these cards be roleplayers in control decks as an alternative win-con/enabler or will the creatures just function as 0/3's because they die too early?
I'm sad to see this site go .
I have primarily been lurking around and occasionally been posting a few comments. However the discussion of cards and archetypes have been a huge help in designing my own cube. I hope the community can move somewhere that is optimal for long term discussion and archiving like MtgSalv.
Very nice of you! I would like to enter for the Gideon to upgrade my current version .
There are many old cards that I wish I could run, but can't either because of not enough archetype or because they just aren't good enough. An example of this is Goblin Lackey, which has a very powerful effect, but not enough support for it unless you go all in on the Goblin archetype.
I like this new Karn enough to at least try it out. Often cards like Pithing Needle/Ratchet Bomb and friends don't make it to the main deck. This card can grap whatever is needed from the sideboard. Sounds fun .
Easily the best Rakdos card.
I run the top 6 cards and I would rate them something like this (#1/#2, #3/#4 and #5/#6/#7 are pretty interchangeable):
Speaking of Cursed Mirror, I think I will test this card. Maybe alongside Astral Dragon.
Could you elaborate why you think Procession is better? In my experience, the heavy white requirement means that it only makes it to mono-white decks. At the same time, I've been impressed with Spiritkeeper since it gives aggressive decks some protection from wraths. It's been about a year since our last draft, so I might be a little rusty in my evaluation.
Right now, I'm deciding to cut either Spectral Procession or Hallowed Spiritkeeper to include some cards from Kaldheim. I am leaning towards cutting Procession. What do you think?
I'm thinking of trying it out in my next update.
Interesting. Does Altar of the Brood only function as a combo piece for persist in this case? Or have you ever seen anyone win a game by incidentally milling just by playing lands/permanents? It seems real slow, so I would guess not.
I have drafted a few times with ZNR on Arena and I have been impressed with what a single Ruin Crab on turn 1 or 2 can do. It blocks the opponent's early attackers and slowly wins the game if they do not kill it. Of course, the power level is different from cube, but it made me think of trying it out. I'm thinking it could actually kill pretty fast in an UG shell with cards like Oracle/Courser/Dryad/Cultivate etc.
If I were to add anything, it would be cards that does something even if you aren't fully on the mill strategy: Hedron Crab (blocks), Ruin Crab (blocks), Manic Scribe (blocks), Mesmeric Orb (enables graveyard strategies), Cling to Dust and maybe Vantress Gargoyle and Howling Mine.
What do you think? Could these cards be roleplayers in control decks as an alternative win-con/enabler or will the creatures just function as 0/3's because they die too early?
1. Sol Ring
2. Black Lotus
3. ABU Moxen
4. Mana Crypt
5. Mana Vault
6. Mox Diamond
7. Grim Monolith
8. Skullclamp
9. Umezawa's Jitte
10. Sword of Fire and Ice
11. Smokestack
12. Crucible of Worlds
13. Wurmcoil Engine
14. Metalworker
15. Phyrexian Revoker
16. Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
17. Winter Orb
18. Sword of Light and Shadow
19. Smuggler's Copter
20. Chrome Mox
I have primarily been lurking around and occasionally been posting a few comments. However the discussion of cards and archetypes have been a huge help in designing my own cube. I hope the community can move somewhere that is optimal for long term discussion and archiving like MtgSalv.
There are many old cards that I wish I could run, but can't either because of not enough archetype or because they just aren't good enough. An example of this is Goblin Lackey, which has a very powerful effect, but not enough support for it unless you go all in on the Goblin archetype.