I think that it is a little ironic that in the midst of terrible standard play-wise, the support for FNMs is even worse than before. Like, they are not willing to try any of multiple ways to get people to play standard.
It may be considered a "win more" card by some, but I would consider it more of a stalemate breaker/finisher.
Aren't all win more cards also stalemate finishers? Cards like Khalni Hydra come to mind in these situations. I'm not saying you should play them, but what I'm saying is that I don't like Reverent Hunter. It is very cheap though, so there's no harm in trying it.
That's fair. However, since it can be grabbed with Collected Company, it synergizes much better with the deck and fits the curve better on it's own than most other "win more" cards seem to do. And to correct myself, since as a 1-of it usually comes in as about the size of or bigger than a baloth, whether off of a Coco or from my hand, I guess I would consider it to be filling that 4th baloth slot as a (usually) efficient beater with a chance of upside and downside. In these slots it is all preference (if I had a Rhonas, I would replace it with that and see how it ran).
Interesting build.
A couple of questions on the deck
How did you find nobel hierarch compared to birds?
And how did you find ground breaker working with Coco? (When I've used Coco I tend to do it response to oponet attacking me and or in there endstep to dodge there removal. I'm guessing you use it a little more aggressively )
lastly Reverent Hunter with Coco how was it? It a card that was always considered weak because in needed a semi decent board state to work but you get two other creaters with Coco so might be viable.
Noble Hierarchs are amazing as a dork and are deceivingly powerful. Their Exalted ability is sneakily very good, slipping in extra damage and making combat a little more different in a deck that wants those small advantages, and on an otherwise empty board lets Hierarch (or multiple hierarchs, or a hierarch and a birds) do some damage.
Birds of paradise are fine. Their biggest upside over some other random 1/1 dork is the flying keyword, as it gives us a random attacker with evasion that we can drop an aspect of hydra on or such to dodge pesky blockers, or allows us to block some flyer on the other side (Hello affinity), and I find this more important than the 1 power. Also can randomly help with casting dismember or act of aggression out of the sideboard.
1) I am casting it during the pre-combat main phase on my turn to try to find haste and/or devotion to either get in lethal or push it close. Groundbreaker is great here in both ways.
2) I am casting it during my opponents combat step, after attackers are declared, to attempt to flash in some blockers. Groundbreaker is usually good here as it can usually get a kill or at the least soak up some damage that I could not afford to take.
3) I am casting it during my opponents end step. This is the sneakiest part because, even though at first glance it doesn't seem so, Groundbreaker is strong here too. With the way the rules work, during the end step, all "at end of turn" triggered abilities trigger before players are able to cast spells or activate abilities. Therefore, if I put a Groundbreaker onto the field with Collected Company at that point, the time for the sacrifice ability to trigger is already passed for the turn and has to wait until the next end step (on my turn) before it can trigger, giving me the chance to still attack with it before having to sac it.
There are very few times that I would be casting Collected Company outside of those 3 scenarios (maybe in response to hand disruption). In those rare cases I just hope I don't hit any of the 4 Groundbreakers.
As for Reverent Hunter, it can be really strong but it also has the downsides of relying on our board state and the addition of the +1/+1 counters being a triggered ability. I have had it enter as an 9/9 and my opponent just stares and shakes their head (this was more before Death's Shadow became big) and I have had it shot with half of electrolyze with it's triggered ability on the stack. Hitting it with company usually does has it entering as bigger than a baloth, and much less often, but sometimes, it is a 1/1 - 3/3. I haven't had too many issues with it entering really small, as a one of it is easier to play when I want to or grab off of a Company. It may be considered a "win more" card by some, but I would consider it more of a stalemate breaker/finisher. It has been decent overall and I have been able to make decent use of it with Company being able to have it enter as an instant/end of turns to dodge removal better, and I think that is where it is the strongest. I don't think I would personally go over 1 in the deck and it is in my 3 drop flex-spot, depending on the meta.
Tryed but it basically became zoo as you have to realistically go outside of our normal creaters to find anything with similar power levels. I went for (4 narnams 4 loam lions and 4 wild Nacatl) needed 10 feches 3 shocks (2 g/w, 1 r/g) and 2 horizon canopys.
It was ok but not as elegant
(Even most zoo decks play 4 e ones) they really are that good. 1/1 for one that gets bigger Evey turn and once it hits 2 counters becomes push and bolt proof. And can become a 5/5 with relevant synagys it's pretty impressive for a one drop
If you can come up with a good build without him I would be interested It would probably mean dropping avatar but maybe a more rampy build might work 4 birds 2 elves and 2 dyrads and a load of three drops might work
The version I have run without Experiment One is a list like this:
It focuses more on explosiveness than overwhelming. The 2 1-ofs mainboard are the main flex slots, which could be Rhonas or whatever. It was fairly successful for me (I did run it mainly pre-push, so don't know if this version was affected worse than the regular version).
Fun definitely has to play in somewhere. How much or how little is unknown. Generally, people go to stores to play because they enjoy it for whatever different reasons. When you get decreasing attendance in events and a rise in a certain deck, there may not be analytics to show what that deck specifically is doing to damage the game, but it would appear that enough people don't like playing against it that they stop coming out for events, and that hurts WOTC and Magic whether directly or indirectly. It is the human factor.
There was a guy who attended our LGS regularly (when I went there regularly), named John, that was just a great guy. Beforehand, he would chat with you about Magic or whatever. If you needed a card for that evening, he would gladly let you borrow it. During the games he was polite, open, easygoing, and clear. On top of it, he was a good competitive player. He was always gracious in victory or defeat, having something kind to say either way. I don't think that I ever saw him even look like he was losing his composure or getting tilted or salty. I wish every player could be close to how John was.
What's brought this to the forefront of my mind is that I see successful pro players making these kinds of risky keeps and they get rewarded for them. I watch streams, tournament coverage and all kinds of reports on the decks I'm playing and it looks like having any kind of deep run in a tournament requires making these keeps and hoping for the best, getting rewarded for doing so. I'm not having that sort of success unfortunately so my tournament performance is more like 3-1 than 4-0 if you get my meaning.
Keep in mind as well that for every player you see that gets lucky making a questionable keep work, there are 2 others who it doesn't work for and they lost and that is why you don't see them.
I've had points sitting around untouched for many months with a fairly diverse set of wants. With some positive news, I figure I will send out a package to see if that can pick me back up again at all.
Also, my problem with the masters sets is that they aren't really good for players at all...
But that should give a good idea of why I'm not a fan of now having two of these sets in a year and most major high cost reprints now being all moved into these sets.
In other words, you don't want te printed at all.
Without reprints, the cards would COST MORE or be completely unavailable. The reprints make cards COST LESS.
So, you're comepltely off-base.
I don't buy packs. That doesn't mean I'm not going to call them out on bad form.
And, once again, THESE PRODCUTS ARE NOT FOR YOU, They're for people who DO NOT have modern cards but want them anyway.
Honestly, this is like complaining about the high cost of jewelry, when you don't buy jewelry, and the increase in supply is driving the cost of jewelry down.
1) Actually, I'd just be happy if the company would at least give the people spending 240 msrp on a box of masters the same number of packs as a standard set per box. There is such a thing as wanting a compromise instead of a binary mode of existence and non-existence.
2) Wow, is that it on the gift boxes? Oh, the only reason I'm complaining is that I'm not the target audience. Okay then, what is the target audience then? Star lands collectors? I can tell you right now that a strict casual player is going to go get the booster packs because for that same price they can get 5-6 depending if they are on sale at the store still. If they wanted something more substantial with a dice and possible poster they'd get a fat pack (err, Bundle). You're completely missing the point in this: The product they modeled it after gives significantly more value to the kind of people likely to buy them than the current configuration of the existing gift pack.
Also, while casual players and standard / modern players may have some different tastes, casual players are driven by the successes of those who play tournament events and post results. People across the board want good cards, and when a deck succeeds, those cards get marked as being good in the respective format and more people go to chase those cards. Saffron Olive, the Command Zone, the Professor, and other figures in the Magic community also drive casual audiences. So yes, there is a significant overlap between the demands of most casual players and tournament players. The entire point of the pokemon tins was to help casual players get cards that are hot in tournament play at fair prices by keeping them from spiking out of control, or offering those casual players alternative art cards of casual staples that are popular. The Gift box in it's current configuration does neither and costs a premium over other kinds of products those players would go after.
I think the real issue with your analysis of the gift box is your perception of "casual" players. There are a good number of people who play Magic only once in a while and do not keep up with tournaments at all, or streamers, or any part of Magic other than the cards that they own and their immediate friends that they play with. I know as I was once one of these people, for a number of years, along with my group of friends who played. All we knew was the cards we had and we bought booster packs and intro decks (which are almost as bad as the gift box and maybe worse as they only had 1 booster at the time.) from Walmart when we could to try to add to our very casual decks (think 80+ random "cool" cards). They have very little idea of what is "good" or value. These are the people that this gift box is meant for.
1. Has anyone seen or noticed this?
2. What card stock was it printed on? How many types do they use and for what?
3. They say they are still legal in tournament play, but being different card stock what is the chance that the cards could be cut to too easily during a deck check or such?
Rootborn Defenses is the only one resembling heroic intervention that I know of that tokens may like. Generally they either go for selfless spirit, or trust in their hand control / attempt to play smartly around board wipes.
Have you checked out the B/W tokens thread in the Developing Competitive (Modern) forum? There are lots of good people playing and practicing there who can give great advice.
Spellskite
Grafdigger's Cage
Pithing Needle
Torpor Orb
Wheel of Sun and Moon
That's fair. However, since it can be grabbed with Collected Company, it synergizes much better with the deck and fits the curve better on it's own than most other "win more" cards seem to do. And to correct myself, since as a 1-of it usually comes in as about the size of or bigger than a baloth, whether off of a Coco or from my hand, I guess I would consider it to be filling that 4th baloth slot as a (usually) efficient beater with a chance of upside and downside. In these slots it is all preference (if I had a Rhonas, I would replace it with that and see how it ran).
Noble Hierarchs are amazing as a dork and are deceivingly powerful. Their Exalted ability is sneakily very good, slipping in extra damage and making combat a little more different in a deck that wants those small advantages, and on an otherwise empty board lets Hierarch (or multiple hierarchs, or a hierarch and a birds) do some damage.
Birds of paradise are fine. Their biggest upside over some other random 1/1 dork is the flying keyword, as it gives us a random attacker with evasion that we can drop an aspect of hydra on or such to dodge pesky blockers, or allows us to block some flyer on the other side (Hello affinity), and I find this more important than the 1 power. Also can randomly help with casting dismember or act of aggression out of the sideboard.
The Collected Companys, in regards to the Groundbreakers are generally used in 1 of 3 ways:
1) I am casting it during the pre-combat main phase on my turn to try to find haste and/or devotion to either get in lethal or push it close. Groundbreaker is great here in both ways.
2) I am casting it during my opponents combat step, after attackers are declared, to attempt to flash in some blockers. Groundbreaker is usually good here as it can usually get a kill or at the least soak up some damage that I could not afford to take.
3) I am casting it during my opponents end step. This is the sneakiest part because, even though at first glance it doesn't seem so, Groundbreaker is strong here too. With the way the rules work, during the end step, all "at end of turn" triggered abilities trigger before players are able to cast spells or activate abilities. Therefore, if I put a Groundbreaker onto the field with Collected Company at that point, the time for the sacrifice ability to trigger is already passed for the turn and has to wait until the next end step (on my turn) before it can trigger, giving me the chance to still attack with it before having to sac it.
There are very few times that I would be casting Collected Company outside of those 3 scenarios (maybe in response to hand disruption). In those rare cases I just hope I don't hit any of the 4 Groundbreakers.
As for Reverent Hunter, it can be really strong but it also has the downsides of relying on our board state and the addition of the +1/+1 counters being a triggered ability. I have had it enter as an 9/9 and my opponent just stares and shakes their head (this was more before Death's Shadow became big) and I have had it shot with half of electrolyze with it's triggered ability on the stack. Hitting it with company usually does has it entering as bigger than a baloth, and much less often, but sometimes, it is a 1/1 - 3/3. I haven't had too many issues with it entering really small, as a one of it is easier to play when I want to or grab off of a Company. It may be considered a "win more" card by some, but I would consider it more of a stalemate breaker/finisher. It has been decent overall and I have been able to make decent use of it with Company being able to have it enter as an instant/end of turns to dodge removal better, and I think that is where it is the strongest. I don't think I would personally go over 1 in the deck and it is in my 3 drop flex-spot, depending on the meta.
Hope that clears some things up!
The version I have run without Experiment One is a list like this:
3x Avatar of the Resolute
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Boggart Ram-Gang
1x Eternal Witness
4x Groundbreaker
3x Leatherback Baloth
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Reverent Hunter
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Aspect of Hydra
3x Blossoming Defense
4x Collected Company
1x Vines of Vastwood
Land (20)
18x Forest
2x Hashep Oasis
It focuses more on explosiveness than overwhelming. The 2 1-ofs mainboard are the main flex slots, which could be Rhonas or whatever. It was fairly successful for me (I did run it mainly pre-push, so don't know if this version was affected worse than the regular version).
There was a guy who attended our LGS regularly (when I went there regularly), named John, that was just a great guy. Beforehand, he would chat with you about Magic or whatever. If you needed a card for that evening, he would gladly let you borrow it. During the games he was polite, open, easygoing, and clear. On top of it, he was a good competitive player. He was always gracious in victory or defeat, having something kind to say either way. I don't think that I ever saw him even look like he was losing his composure or getting tilted or salty. I wish every player could be close to how John was.
Keep in mind as well that for every player you see that gets lucky making a questionable keep work, there are 2 others who it doesn't work for and they lost and that is why you don't see them.
I think the real issue with your analysis of the gift box is your perception of "casual" players. There are a good number of people who play Magic only once in a while and do not keep up with tournaments at all, or streamers, or any part of Magic other than the cards that they own and their immediate friends that they play with. I know as I was once one of these people, for a number of years, along with my group of friends who played. All we knew was the cards we had and we bought booster packs and intro decks (which are almost as bad as the gift box and maybe worse as they only had 1 booster at the time.) from Walmart when we could to try to add to our very casual decks (think 80+ random "cool" cards). They have very little idea of what is "good" or value. These are the people that this gift box is meant for.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement-ixalan-double-faced-cards-card-stock-2017-10-20
This brings up a couple of questions to me:
1. Has anyone seen or noticed this?
2. What card stock was it printed on? How many types do they use and for what?
3. They say they are still legal in tournament play, but being different card stock what is the chance that the cards could be cut to too easily during a deck check or such?
What do you all think?
Have you checked out the B/W tokens thread in the Developing Competitive (Modern) forum? There are lots of good people playing and practicing there who can give great advice.