When ~ enters the battlefield, create two 2/2 red Human Knight creature tokens with trample and haste.
Dash 4WR
4/4
---
Boros is getting some real bangers in this set. Eomer also deserves a thread in my opinion.
This card specifically puts Siege-gang Commander to shame. Instead of SGC's 5/5 p/t, this card gives you 8/8 p/t, and while you sadly can't sacrifice tokens for damage they have trample and haste, so you immediately have 4 power to pressure opposing PWs with while not having to sacrifice anything.
While this card is far worse than Forth Eorlingas, it's much better played on defense than it, so much more of an all-rounder.
The dash ability is also not irrelevant, since it gives Boros a rare mana sink that generates hasty tokens and threatens 8 damage each turn.
My ranking of the 3 cards is Forth Eorlingas > Riders of Rohan > Eomer, King of Rohan.
When Fealty to the Realm enters the battlefield, you become the monarch.
The monarch controls enchanted creature.
Enchanted creature attacks each combat if able and can't attack you.
---
Somewhat reminiscent of Fall From Favor, in that it's blue creature removal that depends on the monarch. The "attacks each combat if able" is mostly irrelevant since it can't attack you.
The difference is 2 more mana to gain control of the creature instead of just permatapping it, and even if you lose the monarch the creature is still "removed" from combat since this becomes half of a Pacifism.
The single blue pip makes this an incredibly splashable mind control, which I'm pretty sure most decks want.
If Fall from Favor has shown that blue can keep the monarch, I'm pretty sure this card will be great.
What do you think?
I also love the mode where you already have a board that can hit the opponent, and this card can become RW: become the monarch, plus X 2/2 tokens to defend the monarch if you're interested.
This card is good early and good late, good on offense and good on defense. I can't wait to try it out!
An interesting variation on the regular punisher formula.
Always getting to scry 2 on your end step is fine, especially since burn decks don't get it as often and it helps them dig for more burn to finish the game.
I think the scry might be a lot weaker than you think, primary because of the punisher nature of this card. In the first few turns, the opponent would likely opt for taking the damage over the draw and hence your scrys will likely be milled.
Wow that's a good point!
This points at a conflict with choosing cards with the scry: Putting good cards on top would risk the opponent milling them and you losing access to them.
Putting bad cards on top would risk your opponent letting you draw one and keep one on top.
Putting lands on top screws you over on both ends since you rarely want to draw them, but milling them won't pressure your opponent's life total.
That makes this card look pretty bad, honestly... But I've made two mistakes already, so maybe I could be wrong yet again.
Playing Hornet Queen into your opponent countering it with this card is probably an instant rage quit. The mana advantage gained is massive and might be enough to straight up win the game if the counter itself wasn't already enough.
Plus, there are some interesting and unique targets, like countering Grist.
The clear downside is that this card really sucks when drawn late, and is either traded for whatever weak creature the opponent draws, or just straight up withers away in your hand. How often will that happen?
It deals damage equal to the total mana value of the revealed cards, not 1 -> 2 -> 3
My bad. This makes both 2 and 3 counter modes more likely for the Preordain option, but doesn't change much of anything else. It's still Preordain every turn for 3 mana, which is nice but doesn't affect the board, so probably not worth a slot in a deck.
An interesting variation on the regular punisher formula.
Always getting to scry 2 on your end step is fine, especially since burn decks don't get it as often and it helps them dig for more burn to finish the game.
Option A is card draw, which with the previous scry becomes Preordain, definitely a solid option. Beyond some 3 or 4 influence counters, I'd expect this to be the default option.
Option B is milling for you and damage for them. Note that influence counters are given every EOT, not just when this option is picked. The mill is not insignificant, since it could kill you if your opponents have SoBaM, Ashiok 1.0 or Court of Cunning, but one could assume the damage would be more dangerous than the mill.
Here's my approximate evaluation of probability of choice between Option A and B for each number of influence counters:
1 counter:
10% A, 90% B.
1 damage is negligible unless it's losing you the game.
2 counters:
20% A, 80% B.
2 damage isn't a big deal for most decks to shrug off, as it isn't a big advancement of the burn deck's clock.
3 counters:
60% A, 40% B.
If the burn player would gladly spend a card to deal 3 damage to you, say with a Lightning Strike, you probably don't want to take that amount. Still, there are cases where it's a valid choice, such as the critical turn before you can play a wrath or stabilize some other way.
4+ counters:
90% > A, 10% < B.
Even if the burn player draw their best card, this is at worst turn 6 or 7 at this point. Either you've stabilized most of their offense, or you'll have the mana and cards to do so now.
Overall, the most common scenario for this card has the burn player deal 3-6 damage with this card to the opposing player, spread over multple turns. I'm not sure that this is enough, especially since all of these approximations go out the window if the opponent has a Batterskull or such card, which Sulfuric Vortex doesn't care about.
Bottom line for me is that it's probably not worth it. Preordain every turn for 3 mana is nice, but your opponent gets to choose if they give it to you or if they take the damage, unlike say Jace where you choose to Brainstorm or to bounce their threat.
Interesting card though. I wonder if punisher cards will be worth it one day.
The recent spoiler of Reprieve has got me curious about the role counterspells could play in white decks.
Counterspells are obviously the only ways to interact with spells on the stack, like instants and sorceries. They are also at their best when you have several of them in your deck, enabling you to save mana and cards to react at instant speed, so one could argue for inclusion of more counters in white. There's also pretty good support and cards that like counters in white, like Monastery Mentor.
However, blue has to rely almost 100% on its counterspells since it has barely any solid removal. White has removal for everything and anything out the wazoo, especially in recent times, with all-stars like Prismatic Ending and Solitude.
So where does the line stand for a playable white counter? Is it worth it to start playing bad white counters just so you can have more of them, or is it honestly not a big deal?
Reprieve is obviously good enough to see play on its own in several types of white decks, and in both aggressive and defensive ones.
But what about, say, Lapse of Certainty?
The card it originated from, Memory Lapse, still sees frequent play in cube and even in historic, but the former is obviously considered a pretty awful card.
Let's discuss.
EDIT: I'm also wondering about how this issue would be reflected for other card types moving to other areas of the color pie, i.e. non-black discard spells, non-green mana elves, non-red burn.
The differences between this and Soul Shatter are marginal at best, and the fact that they downgraded it to uncommon from rare should tell you something about its power level.
If you consider that most black decks will have at least one creature on board, that will be able to help with convoke around 50% of the time, I believe this kind of card will be easily worse than both Lethal Scheme and Pile On.
I know, I know, this is far from the best card, but I feel like it still warrants some discussion and I haven't seen anyone mentioning it. Concealing Curtains has seen good play in black, and this seems to be along the same lines. One mana guy that defends you, and upgrades into a bigger guy with better bang for your buck.
The base card is weaker, since the 1/3 over 0/4 statline is better early game but much weaker late, succesfully blocking 1 drops and tokens but dying to bolt. The other side is also much weaker, since impulse draw is not the best in counterspell-loving blue and since it's a french vanilla 3/3 instead of a 3/4 menace. Lastly, the transformation is weaker since it requires 2 life unless you're running red.
However, blue is much more lacking in playable 1 drops, so there is much less contest for this kind of card there. My thoughts are that blue midrange would love something to keep them alive during early turns and help them gain card advantage in later turns.
4 mana do nothing in red is a tough sell. The draw ability is interesting, but in comparison Showdown of the Skalds draws 4 consistently and rewards you for playing the cards, but hasn't been a unanimous success. I have a hard time seeing how this is better.
2BB
Battle - Siege
Flash
When ~ enters the battlefield, target creature gets -13/-13 until end of turn.
5
---
Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, create two 2/2 black zombie creature tokens. 2B: Exile target card from a graveyard. If it was a creature card, create a 2/2 black zombie creature token.
---
The interesting part about this card is that it's a Battle with flash, which means it'll have a higher chance of flipping. You get to kill their defending creature, then untap and swing with 5 power, giving you 4/4 in power and a late game mana sink.
While the rate on the front side is pretty abysmal, I'm relying much more on the fact that this battle will be easier to flip than it reads. If that's true, hopefully control and midrange will like it well enough for the price.
Is it too much to ask for? Or will be worth the hassle?
In comparison to Custodi Lich, this takes the cake by a landslide.
Better body both offensively and defensively, with both menace and higher toughness.
The sac ability is much better, since they only sac nontokens, and since it also includes planeswalkers, causing this card to be much better against control and midrange.
Monarch is great, but don't forget that it can also be stolen. For this reason Lich wasn't very good as a reanimation target or a control finisher.
Instead of monarch, Sheoldred can practically win the game if an opponent has 8 cards in graveyard, which makes it a fair reanimation target, and an excellent control finisher.
I see her as being potentially stronger than some of the 40K black 5 drops, which were some of the best that we've ever seen, so it should probably be a no brainer include in most cubes.
Whenever one or more instant or sorcery spells you control deal damage an opponent or a battle card, you may pay R. If you pay, return Bloodfeather Phoenix from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste until end of turn.
2/2
An evasive 2 drop that can come back with burn. Reminiscent of Arclight Phoenix, except you don't have to play 3 in a turn - just one, but that one has to be burn to your opponent's face. Also somewhat reminiscent of Play with Fire in that regard.
There seem to be some options for this ability:
Play it like a normal Vampire Interloper then have it die, or discard it with red's million ways to do so.
Point your Lightning Bolt at your opponent and get a hasty flying 2/2 for R, which is pretty convenient for aggro and burn.
Play your Arc Lightning or Seismic Wave or Delayed Blast Fireball and have your opponent take some damage so that you can bring back your phoenix. Decent, but the fact that it can't block means midrange and control won't be very interested.
Play Firebolt or Lava Dart and have this guy teleport between the library and graveyard all day.
While the creature itself isn't very flexible since it can't play defense, I think it's solid enough to see play. What do you think?
I don't love that you have to pay the 2 mana every turn to make it a good attacker.
I beg to differ with the both of you - for 2 mana you get a good attacker AND a good defender. It's not multiple bodies, so not stellar, but a 6/6 trampling body is on Prime Time levels, which is nothing to scoff at.
Plus, if you really need the mana, you don't have to pay - this is no Echo or Cumulative Upkeep. Decks that play at instant speed will appreciate this creature for simply swinging for 3 while holding up both a blocker and mana, until you have enough mana to pay 2 along with your spells. Mana sinks are not to be underestimated.
3WR
Creature - Human Knight
When ~ enters the battlefield, create two 2/2 red Human Knight creature tokens with trample and haste.
Dash 4WR
4/4
---
Boros is getting some real bangers in this set. Eomer also deserves a thread in my opinion.
This card specifically puts Siege-gang Commander to shame. Instead of SGC's 5/5 p/t, this card gives you 8/8 p/t, and while you sadly can't sacrifice tokens for damage they have trample and haste, so you immediately have 4 power to pressure opposing PWs with while not having to sacrifice anything.
While this card is far worse than Forth Eorlingas, it's much better played on defense than it, so much more of an all-rounder.
The dash ability is also not irrelevant, since it gives Boros a rare mana sink that generates hasty tokens and threatens 8 damage each turn.
My ranking of the 3 cards is Forth Eorlingas > Riders of Rohan > Eomer, King of Rohan.
Thoughts?
4U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
When Fealty to the Realm enters the battlefield, you become the monarch.
The monarch controls enchanted creature.
Enchanted creature attacks each combat if able and can't attack you.
---
Somewhat reminiscent of Fall From Favor, in that it's blue creature removal that depends on the monarch. The "attacks each combat if able" is mostly irrelevant since it can't attack you.
The difference is 2 more mana to gain control of the creature instead of just permatapping it, and even if you lose the monarch the creature is still "removed" from combat since this becomes half of a Pacifism.
The single blue pip makes this an incredibly splashable mind control, which I'm pretty sure most decks want.
If Fall from Favor has shown that blue can keep the monarch, I'm pretty sure this card will be great.
What do you think?
This card is good early and good late, good on offense and good on defense. I can't wait to try it out!
Wow that's a good point!
This points at a conflict with choosing cards with the scry: Putting good cards on top would risk the opponent milling them and you losing access to them.
Putting bad cards on top would risk your opponent letting you draw one and keep one on top.
Putting lands on top screws you over on both ends since you rarely want to draw them, but milling them won't pressure your opponent's life total.
That makes this card look pretty bad, honestly... But I've made two mistakes already, so maybe I could be wrong yet again.
Plus, there are some interesting and unique targets, like countering Grist.
The clear downside is that this card really sucks when drawn late, and is either traded for whatever weak creature the opponent draws, or just straight up withers away in your hand. How often will that happen?
My bad. This makes both 2 and 3 counter modes more likely for the Preordain option, but doesn't change much of anything else. It's still Preordain every turn for 3 mana, which is nice but doesn't affect the board, so probably not worth a slot in a deck.
Always getting to scry 2 on your end step is fine, especially since burn decks don't get it as often and it helps them dig for more burn to finish the game.
Option A is card draw, which with the previous scry becomes Preordain, definitely a solid option. Beyond some 3 or 4 influence counters, I'd expect this to be the default option.
Option B is milling for you and damage for them. Note that influence counters are given every EOT, not just when this option is picked. The mill is not insignificant, since it could kill you if your opponents have SoBaM, Ashiok 1.0 or Court of Cunning, but one could assume the damage would be more dangerous than the mill.
Here's my approximate evaluation of probability of choice between Option A and B for each number of influence counters:
1 counter:
10% A, 90% B.
1 damage is negligible unless it's losing you the game.
2 counters:
20% A, 80% B.
2 damage isn't a big deal for most decks to shrug off, as it isn't a big advancement of the burn deck's clock.
3 counters:
60% A, 40% B.
If the burn player would gladly spend a card to deal 3 damage to you, say with a Lightning Strike, you probably don't want to take that amount. Still, there are cases where it's a valid choice, such as the critical turn before you can play a wrath or stabilize some other way.
4+ counters:
90% > A, 10% < B.
Even if the burn player draw their best card, this is at worst turn 6 or 7 at this point. Either you've stabilized most of their offense, or you'll have the mana and cards to do so now.
Overall, the most common scenario for this card has the burn player deal 3-6 damage with this card to the opposing player, spread over multple turns. I'm not sure that this is enough, especially since all of these approximations go out the window if the opponent has a Batterskull or such card, which Sulfuric Vortex doesn't care about.
Bottom line for me is that it's probably not worth it. Preordain every turn for 3 mana is nice, but your opponent gets to choose if they give it to you or if they take the damage, unlike say Jace where you choose to Brainstorm or to bounce their threat.
Interesting card though. I wonder if punisher cards will be worth it one day.
Counterspells are obviously the only ways to interact with spells on the stack, like instants and sorceries. They are also at their best when you have several of them in your deck, enabling you to save mana and cards to react at instant speed, so one could argue for inclusion of more counters in white. There's also pretty good support and cards that like counters in white, like Monastery Mentor.
However, blue has to rely almost 100% on its counterspells since it has barely any solid removal. White has removal for everything and anything out the wazoo, especially in recent times, with all-stars like Prismatic Ending and Solitude.
So where does the line stand for a playable white counter? Is it worth it to start playing bad white counters just so you can have more of them, or is it honestly not a big deal?
Reprieve is obviously good enough to see play on its own in several types of white decks, and in both aggressive and defensive ones.
But what about, say, Lapse of Certainty?
The card it originated from, Memory Lapse, still sees frequent play in cube and even in historic, but the former is obviously considered a pretty awful card.
Let's discuss.
EDIT: I'm also wondering about how this issue would be reflected for other card types moving to other areas of the color pie, i.e. non-black discard spells, non-green mana elves, non-red burn.
If you consider that most black decks will have at least one creature on board, that will be able to help with convoke around 50% of the time, I believe this kind of card will be easily worse than both Lethal Scheme and Pile On.
I know, I know, this is far from the best card, but I feel like it still warrants some discussion and I haven't seen anyone mentioning it.
Concealing Curtains has seen good play in black, and this seems to be along the same lines. One mana guy that defends you, and upgrades into a bigger guy with better bang for your buck.
The base card is weaker, since the 1/3 over 0/4 statline is better early game but much weaker late, succesfully blocking 1 drops and tokens but dying to bolt. The other side is also much weaker, since impulse draw is not the best in counterspell-loving blue and since it's a french vanilla 3/3 instead of a 3/4 menace. Lastly, the transformation is weaker since it requires 2 life unless you're running red.
However, blue is much more lacking in playable 1 drops, so there is much less contest for this kind of card there. My thoughts are that blue midrange would love something to keep them alive during early turns and help them gain card advantage in later turns.
So how far off am I?
2BB
Battle - Siege
Flash
When ~ enters the battlefield, target creature gets -13/-13 until end of turn.
5
---
Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, create two 2/2 black zombie creature tokens.
2B: Exile target card from a graveyard. If it was a creature card, create a 2/2 black zombie creature token.
---
The interesting part about this card is that it's a Battle with flash, which means it'll have a higher chance of flipping. You get to kill their defending creature, then untap and swing with 5 power, giving you 4/4 in power and a late game mana sink.
While the rate on the front side is pretty abysmal, I'm relying much more on the fact that this battle will be easier to flip than it reads. If that's true, hopefully control and midrange will like it well enough for the price.
Is it too much to ask for? Or will be worth the hassle?
- Better body both offensively and defensively, with both menace and higher toughness.
- The sac ability is much better, since they only sac nontokens, and since it also includes planeswalkers, causing this card to be much better against control and midrange.
- Monarch is great, but don't forget that it can also be stolen. For this reason Lich wasn't very good as a reanimation target or a control finisher.
Instead of monarch, Sheoldred can practically win the game if an opponent has 8 cards in graveyard, which makes it a fair reanimation target, and an excellent control finisher.
I see her as being potentially stronger than some of the 40K black 5 drops, which were some of the best that we've ever seen, so it should probably be a no brainer include in most cubes.1R
Creature - Phoenix
Flying
Bloodfeather Phoenix can't block.
Whenever one or more instant or sorcery spells you control deal damage an opponent or a battle card, you may pay R. If you pay, return Bloodfeather Phoenix from your graveyard to the battlefield. It gains haste until end of turn.
2/2
An evasive 2 drop that can come back with burn. Reminiscent of Arclight Phoenix, except you don't have to play 3 in a turn - just one, but that one has to be burn to your opponent's face. Also somewhat reminiscent of Play with Fire in that regard.
There seem to be some options for this ability:
- Play it like a normal Vampire Interloper then have it die, or discard it with red's million ways to do so.
- Point your Lightning Bolt at your opponent and get a hasty flying 2/2 for R, which is pretty convenient for aggro and burn.
- Play your Arc Lightning or Seismic Wave or Delayed Blast Fireball and have your opponent take some damage so that you can bring back your phoenix. Decent, but the fact that it can't block means midrange and control won't be very interested.
- Play Firebolt or Lava Dart and have this guy teleport between the library and graveyard all day.
While the creature itself isn't very flexible since it can't play defense, I think it's solid enough to see play. What do you think?I beg to differ with the both of you - for 2 mana you get a good attacker AND a good defender. It's not multiple bodies, so not stellar, but a 6/6 trampling body is on Prime Time levels, which is nothing to scoff at.
Plus, if you really need the mana, you don't have to pay - this is no Echo or Cumulative Upkeep. Decks that play at instant speed will appreciate this creature for simply swinging for 3 while holding up both a blocker and mana, until you have enough mana to pay 2 along with your spells. Mana sinks are not to be underestimated.