I'm not too sure about running only two Shaman. Either run 4 or 1 as a finisher in a Chord version. There were many games where the attack plan wasn't an option to win and then a Shaman sealed the deal.
As for Vanquisher, I'm not sold on it just yet. It survives Pyroclasm but that's about it. Thornweald Archer dies to Pyro but has reach to deal with Inkmoth Nexus, Delver and Eldrazi Skyspawner while also trading 1 for 1 with anything else due to deathtouch. While it's nice that they both remove a threat from opponents board, losing an elf to trade or simply chumping with one doesn't make much difference. Reality Smasher has trample so we only take two and killing Thought-Knot Seer gives us a card back but other than them, we don't really care if we're aiming to win the following turn.
Of which maybe 4 see limited mainboard play and almost all can be handled postboard when the rest come in. I would expect an increase in Doom Blade/Roast/and the single red 4 dmg to creature as a primary removal spells in the short term to buy time for Wrath effects. Card advantage is better against that. Also Ensnaring Bridge which is easily fought via Shaman of the Pack and card advantage.
I agree with @shecki regarding Eldrazi. Wren's Run Vanquisher isn't necessary. When the Eldrazi deck has it's nut draws it's a race and they're not interactive. We are very very consistent T4 kill w/o interactivity. We can chump all but one of their creatures (trample) and out two for one them generally speaking. I think we do need to increase to 3 Ezuri Renegade Leader now for both the combo kill and for regeneration in chump blocks. Luckily we have Cavern of Souls to get us in through Chalice on one T1. I do think we're going to need to start running a Reclamation Sage in the main, and I'm going to likely run another in the side, not just for the Chalice of the Void, but for the impending Ensnaring Bridge lash back, the Affinity increase, the Blood Moon increase etc. I do think that Living End see's a spike in retaliation as well so maybe we pack Sigarda, Host of Herons or Ethersworn Canonist as a chordable necessary evil type answer. Canonist also could be good versus Infect, Storm, and some versions of Death's Shadow Aggro.
I think that viscera seer is significantly beter against living end. Your creatures live through it and shaman of the pack retriggers. Also some nice scrying going on. Especially when running chord. You're always in time to respond to living end.
I agree with @shecki regarding Eldrazi. Wren's Run Vanquisher isn't necessary. When the Eldrazi deck has it's nut draws it's a race and they're not interactive. We are very very consistent T4 kill w/o interactivity. We can chump all but one of their creatures (trample) and out two for one them generally speaking. I think we do need to increase to 3 Ezuri Renegade Leader now for both the combo kill and for regeneration in chump blocks. Luckily we have Cavern of Souls to get us in through Chalice on one T1. I do think we're going to need to start running a Reclamation Sage in the main, and I'm going to likely run another in the side, not just for the Chalice of the Void, but for the impending Ensnaring Bridge lash back, the Affinity increase, the Blood Moon increase etc. I do think that Living End see's a spike in retaliation as well so maybe we pack Sigarda, Host of Herons or Ethersworn Canonist as a chordable necessary evil type answer. Canonist also could be good versus Infect, Storm, and some versions of Death's Shadow Aggro.
I think that viscera seer is significantly beter against living end. Your creatures live through it and shaman of the pack retriggers. Also some nice scrying going on. Especially when running chord. You're always in time to respond to living end.
Ethersworn Canonist causes the Living End to fail as the second spell cant be cast. Instead of hoping to cash in on killing your own creatures to recur them, they just don't die. Without the ability to bring back their graveyard we run over them.
I agree with @shecki regarding Eldrazi. Wren's Run Vanquisher isn't necessary. When the Eldrazi deck has it's nut draws it's a race and they're not interactive. We are very very consistent T4 kill w/o interactivity. We can chump all but one of their creatures (trample) and out two for one them generally speaking. I think we do need to increase to 3 Ezuri Renegade Leader now for both the combo kill and for regeneration in chump blocks. Luckily we have Cavern of Souls to get us in through Chalice on one T1. I do think we're going to need to start running a Reclamation Sage in the main, and I'm going to likely run another in the side, not just for the Chalice of the Void, but for the impending Ensnaring Bridge lash back, the Affinity increase, the Blood Moon increase etc. I do think that Living End see's a spike in retaliation as well so maybe we pack Sigarda, Host of Herons or Ethersworn Canonist as a chordable necessary evil type answer. Canonist also could be good versus Infect, Storm, and some versions of Death's Shadow Aggro.
I think if you want to go with Wilt-Leaf choose an Elf that provides the anthem like Champion, Bramblewood Paragon, or Imperious Perfect
There are some inherent positives to Wilt-Leaf over the more standard Elf lords, namely post board play against hand disruption attrition strategies, and the fact that it can pump sideboard cards along w/your elves which also get the pump on account of being green. It outsizes Bolt and Abrupt Decay as well. I've considered it a few times, but my concern is I don't particularly want it outside of attrition matchups, and I'm not sure we particularly need help in those matchups.
Chording for Dauntless Escort, although that's 6 mana you're holding up. I just don't overextend and then dump my hand after the wrath
I'm testing 2 Dauntless Escorts right now paired with 3 Leyline of Vitality and 1 Burrenton Forge-Tender. My point is and will continue to be that Pyroclasm kills us dead and Leyline is the single best card for proactively fighting it. The other thing is Tron specifically runs 4 Pyroclasm post board and so it is not unreasonable for them to drop two in a game. The "slower" format allowing for Anger of the Gods however has precipitated the Escorts and Renders as I want to be able to Chord for those in spots as well, and or if Chord isn't available Collected Company for them when I don't think I can afford to restart the game. My thought is I'm hoping this allows me to move to 2 Leyline from 3. Burrenton Forge-Tender can act as the pseudo Leyline #3 in the burn matchup.
I also am starting to believe that with the access to Melira, and Spellskite as well as Chalice (on the play) versus Infect/Affinity, that I can afford to cut a Dismember to get a Lead the Stampede back in for grindy matchups. Also make sure you're being aggressive to mulligan towards a Cavern of Souls versus Eldrazi w/their new T1 Chalice for 1 play.
I don't like running fetches because I don't like blocking with my creatures, like at all; as sometimes(most times) even just 1 creature can be the gas you need to swing for lethal or elfstorm into a giant SotP. Fetches are painful when playing an aggro deck, we usually want to win early and with fetches that usually means paying 3 multiple times.
I disagree. We have access to Razorverge Thicket and Gilt-Leaf Palace for W and B so that provides plenty. Running 3 fetchlands out of a total 18/19 lands with 2 slots dedicated to Temple Garden and Overgrown Tomb has been barely noticeable for me, even against Burn. Maybe it's just me but the extra flexibility provided by them both in terms of mana fixing and shuffling our library outweighs the downside of life loss.
Yeah I'm running 3 Verdant Catacombs, 1 Overgrown Tombo and 2 Horizon Canopy and so on average I draw 1-2 of these cards a game, and I probably average about 1-1.5 life lost per game as when I have Gilt-Leaf/Cavern I don't need to get my 1 Overgrown Tomb with the fetch etc. Also I'm a strong believer that this deck wants somewhere between 18-19 lands and so playing 19 w/3 fetches and 2 lands that can draw cards feels better than an 18 or 19 w/o the thinning/drawing effect (which I'm a strong believer is typically not all that relevant...but is more relevant in a deck going 6 deep on CoCo's and/or 5 deep on Lead the Stampede's).
oracle is just a better visionary and will takes care all of our problems (not verdict)
No, they just seem like they're better than they are. The text on Oracle is almost certainly better than Visionary as the downside of revealing the card put into hand is pretty minor for what we're doing. However, the fact that you cannot cast it purely off of your elf generated mana is a huge downside. As Shaman of the Pack is a card that has far more impact on the board splashing for it over Oracle makes sense. It comes down later and immediately impacts the game state.
UG Elves can be played, the configuration is just a bit different and typically runs Summoners Pact. One of the guys in here Purklepuff I believe has played it with some success. The problem Coiling Oracle isn't impactful enough to warrant splashing Blue when you could be splashing Black. Splashing both requires the sort of super painful mana base that ends up losing you a lot of aggro matches you otherwise could have won.
I know Unified Will sounds like it solves everything, and I agree on paper it seems sweet and I've even tested it myself multiple times, but in actual use it requires you to stagnate your game plan on T2-T4 when you should be getting ahead because you have to hold mana up for it. If you're not holding mana up for it, then it's could have just been another proactive card that could have been played. In the mean time while you're holding up mana with you meager board state you get picked apart by spot removal that you don't want to waste your Unified Will on, but at the same if you don't you're likely in just as bad of a position as if you let the sweeper hit you in the first place. On top of that your need to hold up the mana often leads to spots where you don't have enough creatures to meet the criteria of the card in the first place.
The good Elf cards are in black. Namely Gilt-Leaf Palace and Shaman of the Pack. I personally would probably run Coiling Oracle if I could chain it off Heritage Druid, but splashing blue just for that and being unable to chain it w/Elves makes it not so good. I come back to Unified Will every so often just to remind myself that it's to reactive and not worth it.
The thing is most faster decks are spell based or favored to win G1 anyway. Increase your G1 percentages across the board and be prepared to beat the faster decks post board...This also helps you beat the fast decks G1 if they stumble.
I assumed somebody had brought it up in the past, but my bad I didn't realize it was so recent...definitely the first time I've seen it. I personally expect Trons share to drop due to high paced linear aggro increases leading to more sweepers. Its all cyclical though and will come back around.
Would go up to the 4th Cavern if I had it and drop a Forest for that. Hate a bit to go with Painlands, but getting Warping Wail to work needs these Painlands and I believe, it's the best option against Sweepers. Chord/Lead I think, Elfstorm is still very good, but you also need the Chord for Bullets. Sure, not main, but after boarding and there is just not enough space for everything in the 75 so I decided to split Chord/Lead and still miss en Elvish Champion in my SB. If Infect doesn#t get that big, as I fear, Melira could go for the Champion, but I believe that Infect will be widely played in the "new" Meta.
Thought also about Leyline of Vitality, but boarding it against Red Sweeper decks (or Burn for Lifegain and drop Essence Wardens) leads to a point, where i would board 5-7 Spells for 5-7 creatures and that would kill our Strategy. Boarding Lead/Chord can work to some point, but CoCo won't go out against Decks, we want Leyline. So I don't think, Leyline will ever make the cut, because you need to take out to much creatures for it and that dilutes our main Strategy too much.
Also like to see, how Natural State will perform, which can target everything we want: O-Stone, Blood Moon, whole Affinity Deck, Ghostly Prison, ... and so far I don't see any Enchantment or Artifact, that is doesn't hit, that really could annoy us.
Natural State could be good if we can find room. Affinity is pretty crummy card for card when you can keep them off their synergies.
Leyline of Vitality is excellent versus Pyroclasm. I ususally (though it varies with matchups) pull 2 CoCo and a Visionary (clasm only decks) or Elite (attrition decks) when I bring it in. 1 in hand and access to a lord puts you out of range for clasm as early as T2, and they have to balance when to maximize their effect. It sucks vs Anger of the Gods, Damnation and Wrath of God though so it's time might be at an end with how the meta is shifting. I may be replacing it with Essence Warden and Burrenton Forge Render soon with Lead in the side for the big sweepers (which are fewer and farther between in game 1 where I definitively prefer Chord to focus on my primary gamelan).
VS Burn, when in your opening hand it is almost always GG.
It's also worth noting it pairs really well with Nykthos.
@mikeintosh / @vis-a-vis Scapeshift
Lifegain + Spellskite might get there, barely. At 8 lands, which is achievable at the earliest by around turn 4 or 5, Tron will Scapeshift for 6 mountains + 2 Valakut doing 36 damage across 12 triggers (24 damage with all redirects). Another play I like is Beast Within/Fulminator Mage (via Chord) in response to Scapeshift, though Scapeshift generally has time to assemble a combo with all their board wipes.
I like the sound of this. Double black is tough but possibly doable and Chord doesn't care about colors. You mind sharing your build?
Thrun's regenerate also doesn't do anything against Damnation and Wrath of God. I am actually starting to come on board to Warping Wail potentially being one of our best options to fight those and Anger of the Gods...if we determine it is a fight we might be able to win...which I'm not certain we are. My other concern is if aggro decks in general begin to splash in Warping Wail is that an uptick in Supreme Verdict renders it useless...but at least that's only one matchup where the other three cards are much more splashable.
Of which maybe 4 see limited mainboard play and almost all can be handled postboard when the rest come in. I would expect an increase in Doom Blade/Roast/and the single red 4 dmg to creature as a primary removal spells in the short term to buy time for Wrath effects. Card advantage is better against that. Also Ensnaring Bridge which is easily fought via Shaman of the Pack and card advantage.
Ethersworn Canonist causes the Living End to fail as the second spell cant be cast. Instead of hoping to cash in on killing your own creatures to recur them, they just don't die. Without the ability to bring back their graveyard we run over them.
There are some inherent positives to Wilt-Leaf over the more standard Elf lords, namely post board play against hand disruption attrition strategies, and the fact that it can pump sideboard cards along w/your elves which also get the pump on account of being green. It outsizes Bolt and Abrupt Decay as well. I've considered it a few times, but my concern is I don't particularly want it outside of attrition matchups, and I'm not sure we particularly need help in those matchups.
I'm testing 2 Dauntless Escorts right now paired with 3 Leyline of Vitality and 1 Burrenton Forge-Tender. My point is and will continue to be that Pyroclasm kills us dead and Leyline is the single best card for proactively fighting it. The other thing is Tron specifically runs 4 Pyroclasm post board and so it is not unreasonable for them to drop two in a game. The "slower" format allowing for Anger of the Gods however has precipitated the Escorts and Renders as I want to be able to Chord for those in spots as well, and or if Chord isn't available Collected Company for them when I don't think I can afford to restart the game. My thought is I'm hoping this allows me to move to 2 Leyline from 3. Burrenton Forge-Tender can act as the pseudo Leyline #3 in the burn matchup.
2 Dauntless Escort
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Leyline of Vitality
3 Beast Within
2 Dismember
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Chalice of the Void (Hedge for Living End/Infect/Affinity/Burn, ideally setting at 0, 1(w/Cavern ideally), 0/2, 2)
1 Spellskite (There are always relevant matchups)
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Chord of Calling (for matchups I want a 4th)
I also am starting to believe that with the access to Melira, and Spellskite as well as Chalice (on the play) versus Infect/Affinity, that I can afford to cut a Dismember to get a Lead the Stampede back in for grindy matchups. Also make sure you're being aggressive to mulligan towards a Cavern of Souls versus Eldrazi w/their new T1 Chalice for 1 play.
Yeah I'm running 3 Verdant Catacombs, 1 Overgrown Tombo and 2 Horizon Canopy and so on average I draw 1-2 of these cards a game, and I probably average about 1-1.5 life lost per game as when I have Gilt-Leaf/Cavern I don't need to get my 1 Overgrown Tomb with the fetch etc. Also I'm a strong believer that this deck wants somewhere between 18-19 lands and so playing 19 w/3 fetches and 2 lands that can draw cards feels better than an 18 or 19 w/o the thinning/drawing effect (which I'm a strong believer is typically not all that relevant...but is more relevant in a deck going 6 deep on CoCo's and/or 5 deep on Lead the Stampede's).
No, they just seem like they're better than they are. The text on Oracle is almost certainly better than Visionary as the downside of revealing the card put into hand is pretty minor for what we're doing. However, the fact that you cannot cast it purely off of your elf generated mana is a huge downside. As Shaman of the Pack is a card that has far more impact on the board splashing for it over Oracle makes sense. It comes down later and immediately impacts the game state.
UG Elves can be played, the configuration is just a bit different and typically runs Summoners Pact. One of the guys in here Purklepuff I believe has played it with some success. The problem Coiling Oracle isn't impactful enough to warrant splashing Blue when you could be splashing Black. Splashing both requires the sort of super painful mana base that ends up losing you a lot of aggro matches you otherwise could have won.
I know Unified Will sounds like it solves everything, and I agree on paper it seems sweet and I've even tested it myself multiple times, but in actual use it requires you to stagnate your game plan on T2-T4 when you should be getting ahead because you have to hold mana up for it. If you're not holding mana up for it, then it's could have just been another proactive card that could have been played. In the mean time while you're holding up mana with you meager board state you get picked apart by spot removal that you don't want to waste your Unified Will on, but at the same if you don't you're likely in just as bad of a position as if you let the sweeper hit you in the first place. On top of that your need to hold up the mana often leads to spots where you don't have enough creatures to meet the criteria of the card in the first place.
The good Elf cards are in black. Namely Gilt-Leaf Palace and Shaman of the Pack. I personally would probably run Coiling Oracle if I could chain it off Heritage Druid, but splashing blue just for that and being unable to chain it w/Elves makes it not so good. I come back to Unified Will every so often just to remind myself that it's to reactive and not worth it.
Beats:
PYROCLASM
ANGER OF THE GODS
DAMNATION
WRATH OF GOD
SUPREME VERDICT
OBLIVION STONE
CONSUME THE MEEK
Doesn't help vs Ugin or Drown in Sorrow, but those are the lesser evils here.
Guess I'll need to figure out how to splash a little more white in my deck.
Natural State could be good if we can find room. Affinity is pretty crummy card for card when you can keep them off their synergies.
Leyline of Vitality is excellent versus Pyroclasm. I ususally (though it varies with matchups) pull 2 CoCo and a Visionary (clasm only decks) or Elite (attrition decks) when I bring it in. 1 in hand and access to a lord puts you out of range for clasm as early as T2, and they have to balance when to maximize their effect. It sucks vs Anger of the Gods, Damnation and Wrath of God though so it's time might be at an end with how the meta is shifting. I may be replacing it with Essence Warden and Burrenton Forge Render soon with Lead in the side for the big sweepers (which are fewer and farther between in game 1 where I definitively prefer Chord to focus on my primary gamelan).
VS Burn, when in your opening hand it is almost always GG.
It's also worth noting it pairs really well with Nykthos.
I like the sound of this. Double black is tough but possibly doable and Chord doesn't care about colors. You mind sharing your build?