Hi Turnspit, I'm glad you liked the write-up! Maybe in a few years you'll be able to read my adequate prose in an actual book (I'm reaching the 3/4 mark, but at the rate I write I'll be lucky if it's finished before 2025).
Your decklist composition looks very reasonable - it's a little hard to give too detailed of feedback without knowing the power level of your group, though. I think for anything in a low or medium-powered meta it could work just fine, but if you're finding yourself getting blindsided by things you weren't able to answer, here's some suggestions I'd make:
You have a lot of attacker-only removal, which will often not have any targets (let alone important targets) against certain kinds of decks - especially combo decks. Depending on your meta, that might be fine, or it could mean you have a hard time interacting with the things you really need to interact with. Personally my preference would be to replace them with removal that can hit non-attacking creatures and ideally noncreature permanents - first and foremost, beast within and generous gift are both amazingly versatile and relatively cheap. Bant Charm is another really versatile one that's not hard on the wallet. And Commit // Memory is another great.
I also prefer to avoid sorcery-speed targeted removal (you'll always have some sorcery-speed board wipes since it's hard to find enough instant-speed board wipes). The goal is to wait as long as possible before we're forced to act, which sorcery-speed removal doesn't let us do. So if possible, try to remove those ones (even if chain of acid is pretty hilarious...depending on your group it might be ok but it could also backfire hugely).
As far as the other cards go, of course there are some that aren't a totally optimal choice, but you can replace those as you get better options. There are a few I think run a little counter to the goal of the deck - hurricane is kind of a narrow board wipe and acts as a potential wincon (which could be good but also might make you a threat if people know you have it), Spelljack also could put you into a threatening position, and as you said I think the buyback spells can make you a threat (or at least a hindrance) that people want to get rid of (although you can always just play them without buyback if people are getting too bothered by them). That's not to say these things couldn't work out for you and still do well in your meta, though. My version of the deck is built on my experiences playing in my own groups, so you should feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt if these cards are working for you. But keep an eye on them when you play them, and decide if they're contributing or detracting from the game plan.
The one last thing I'd say is that I'd probably try to find more repeatable sources of card advantage. Right now the only repeatable engine you have is whispers of the muse, which is a great card, but I'd probably try to throw at least a couple more in there. Arch of Orazca is my favorite, pulse of the grid is great. If you can afford it, sylvan library is excellent, but if you can't, kumena's awakening does just fine in a pinch.
Hope that helps!
- Turnspit
- Registered User
-
Member for 9 years, 10 months, and 26 days
Last active Wed, May, 18 2022 03:11:19
- 0 Followers
- 41 Total Posts
- 1 Thank
-
1
DirkGently posted a message on Phelddagrif: Show Weakness to Hide Your StrengthPosted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists -
1
weltkrieg posted a message on Adun Oakenshield - Endless value and card advantageWow. Old school magic cards. I love the deck, sir! In general, the previous poster is correct and there are many better cards that have been printed since your collection that are considered strictly better. However, even within the limits of your collection (probably), there are cards you could run that should be considered better optimized for commander. Therefore, I will focus on older cards that you probably have laying around.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Commander is a multiplayer format usually. Cards like verdant force that were pretty good in 1 on 1 become obscene in multiplayer. Do you have a seedborne muse floating around? If so, it will quickly get out of hand with your general and activated abilities.
Of course, I know they are expensive cards, but back in your day they weren't so expensive. Demonic tutor, vampiric tutor, worldly tutor, and gamble and grim monolith would be great additions. I had several of the tutors laying around from my collection back in those days and I wasn't what anyone woul call rich by any means.
krosan restorer is a good card. It's no worse than any other three mana option like ley druid,indeed it may be the potentially strongest out of all of them! Your graveyard will be full quickly. In a similar vein, far wanderings would be a solid addition. It's barely acceptable at regular cost and quickly goes nuts if you have threshold.
IF you have one, exploration would be a good addition. They still haven't made a better version of this card in magic's history. Mana bond or burgeoning are excellent as well and will help you keep up with modern, more powerful cards.
You seem to have already figured out that repeatable or multi-target removable is pretty darned good in a multiplayer format. I would add hull breach and rack and ruin (or possibly shatterstorm) to the list of removal spells. They are still very very good cards and this is a format of vandalblast and cyclonic rift. Plague wind may also be worth it if you can consistently ramp to it. Flexible removal is also good and you might want to consider aftershock as well.
Ramp: Generally, no comments here. However, I would suggest that fertile ground, overgrowth, and wild growth would be good considerations. They die less often than mana dorks and will provide a nice boost to your mana.
Lands: You really want a strip mine in here. It answers a lot of problems in this format. Wasteland, too, if you have one.
Winding canyons would be a good addition if you have one. Instant speed with your creatures is a good thing to have!
Mossfire valley, shadowblood ridge, and gemstone mine are playable, but you really want cards that don't have too many drawbacks. I think that shivan oasis, urborg volcano, llanowar wastes, and darigaaz's caldera are actually better lands in this format. Certainly current decks play common versions of these lands. No reason you can't run what you probably already have and keep up!
Koskun keep could come out as well. I would also consider mountain valley and rocky tar pit. (of course, bloodstained mire, wooded foothills, and aBUR duals if you have them are natural fits). They are slow fetches, but being able to fetch up the appropriate land is always useful even if you wait a turn.
I would consider terrain generator. You're running 28 basic lands and a very mana hungry deck. Any way of putting extra lands onto the battlefield is a very good thing.
For cards to consider removing for some of the additions I mentioned above.
Subversion: There are decks in which this card would be playable. This deck is not one of them. I think you would be better served by necropotence or attrition for card advantage.
Thundermare: Your fatties are pretty solid, but they aren't game endingly good in just one turn. This sort of card is better used as a hail mary kill one opponent sort of card and your only free way to cheat him in is defense of the heart. If you fetch him and one other card, the other card ends up tapped and likely doesn't have haste. Bollocks!! Speaking of haste, fervor or fires of yavimaya would be a great addition here! (or both...)
Tor wauki: Fun card and wish I had one. But, not here. There are decks where you want to force combat where he would be obscene, but you're not doing that here. Visara, the dreadful, shauku endbringer, or avatar of woe would have much more impact and aren't limited to the combat step.
Vhati il-dal: See above.
Harbinger of night: Unless you're aiming to kill your own guys, this guy seems like a bad addition. If you're after your opponents weenies and utility creatures, then I would consider goblin sharpshooter. He will very quickly clean up the problems!
Wall of souls: This card doesn't seem very good here. Again, you don't seem to be trying to force combat so this sort of rattlesnake card doesn't seem to do much.
In general: You have a lot of utility guys and powerful removal, but winning will become problematic. To be blunt, you need a few more fatties to end the game. If you have them, dragons are always good. But avatar of fury, avatar of might, thorn elemental, etc. become problems for your opponent in a hurry and end the game quickly.
-
1
Dragonlover posted a message on Adun Oakenshield - Endless value and card advantageSo I'm not the world's greatest deckbuilder, someone will probably be along in a bit to tell you if any aspect is out of whack. However, I can suggest upgrades/replacements for some of the stuff, especially creatures and lands. I'll tag everything as you may or may not have heard of the stuff I'm recommending.Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
Personally I'd cut the creature based ramp (other than possibly Yavimaya Elder, he's card advantage) for either more mana rocks such as Darksteel Ingot, Rakdos Signet, Golgari Signet and Gruul Signet or spell based ramp such as Cultivate and Kodama's Reach. Reason being, there's a lot of wraths in the average game of commander, and suddenly having three less mana than you expected because some other guy's board needed to die is a real pain.
Change Druid Lyrist out for Caustic Caterpillar. Sure it's one more mana overall, but you can do it the same turn and it'll hit artifacts as well. Ravenous Chupacabra is a straight upgrade on Nekrataal. You aren't running enough Beasts to make Ravenous Baloth worthwhile, maybe swap it for something like Soul of the Harvest for the extra card draw? At he end of the day, more cards is batter than more life. Maybe Fleshbag Marauder/Merciless Executioner over Abyssal Gatekeeper? Oh, I'd probably try and find room for Solemn Simulacrum
There's a few things I'd cut but I've got no specific swap in for them, namely Spiritmonger, Vaevictis Asmadi, Thunderscape Master and Thunderscape Battlemage. There's just better fatties out there nowadays, have a tool around on Gatherer/Scryfall and see what takes your fancy.
Right then, land. Savage Lands in for Koskun Falls would be my first swap, followed swiftly by Evolving Wilds in for Terminal Moraine. Depending on budget as well, there's also the option of running the fetches/shocklands in your colours such as Bloodstained Mire and Blood Crypt.
All in all, looks like a solid first run, mainly hampered by the age of your collection in terms of power level. Kudos on trying to make an older legend work as well, I feel like older generals gets overlooked in favour of newer, shinier toys sometimes.
Dragonlover -
1
TeddySunshine posted a message on An Un-Bear-Able Deck!Hello Everyone! I'm brand new to the forum, but I wanted to join for some advice. I have always been fascinated by Bear cards, simple little 2/2 vanilla beasts.Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
The problem with vanilla cards, as I'm sure you'd imagine, is that they tend to be fairly...well, vanilla. No first strike, no flying, no real abilities outside of Werebear, but nonetheless almost universally mana-efficient.
So how do you compete with decks that are trying to outpace you? You slow them down of course! I will credit an article I found with this idea, but a brilliant addition to the deck is Winter Orb. In addition to dramatically slowing down opponents, it also combos spectacularly with Bear Umbra, as I can untap all of my lands while my opponent get stuck. In addition, Werebear guarantees that I'll have the two mana necessary to play a bear per turn, even untapping only one land. Rancor is a good card to make the bears individually scary, but it's worth mentioning that the bears themselves can be recycled through bearscape, so chipping away with rancor-damage can pay off in the long run by granting threshold to werebear and building towards bearscape later in the game.
The big fear at this point would be mass removal, as the bears do have a relatively low toughness factor. The good news of course is that they are fairly replacable, so any big boom and/or wrath of god would definitely be a hit, but filling the graveyard helps werebear and the eventual bearscape. In a perfect game I'd imagine early winter orb, slow down opponent enough to get bear umbra, then take advantage of mana ramp to overwhelm him before he is able to catch up.
All that being said, I have been away from the game for a long time, and this is more something I'd want to take to the local card shop and be "that guy with a bear deck" than something I'd take to a tournament.
So I'm turning to the forum for help, bearing (ha!) in mind that I want to keep the theme good and bear-focused, are there any good combos and/or additions to the instants, sorceries, or artifacts? Coat of Arms was my first thought, as with any theme deck, but it seems like if I have the mana to cast it, the game should already be well in hand.
Any advice is welcome and appreciated!
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Creatures
4x Werebear
4x Ashcoat Bear
4x Grizzly Bears
4x Runeclaw Bear
3x Dragon-Scarred Bear
3x Ulvenwald BearArtifacts
3x Winter Orb
Spells
2x Bearscape
3x Bear Umbra
4x Rancor
4x Explore
3x OverrunLands
21x Forest -
1
v0rac10u5 posted a message on U/G Madness Threshold DeckMan, I used to love UG Madness back in the Type 2 days... I still pack a RG Madness deck for casual play.Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
Noose Constrictor is a great add. Honored Hydra is an upgrade over Roar, as the token has trample. -
1
v0rac10u5 posted a message on B/W/U Dromar Control - feedbackPersonally, I would cut the Familiars and play Wrath of God or Rout. I'd also try to squeeze in one or two Vindicate as a nice answer to whatever.Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
I don't know if your play group will appreciate it, but Desolation Angel is a pretty brutal win condition in these colors.
Arcane Sanctum is a perfect addition to your manabase. -
1
enigma_b posted a message on B/W/U Dromar Control - feedbackIn general, it's not bad as is. Though, new cards can make it better. Lobotomy, if it's not a pet card, could be anything else.. even Surgical Extraction. If it is a pet card, I can share with you a deck of mine built around it so that you may be introduced to some newer cards.Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
Otherwise, this color combination is now refered to as 'Esper'. One of the shards color identity from the Alara block. Knowing that alone, giving you some crumbs to follow, should be enough for you to see newer cards.
Edit, here is my take on lobotomy using recent cards.
Ashioks' ControlMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards (2) Planeswalkers
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
(10) Creature Spells
4 Thing in the Ice
4 Nightveil Specter
2 Oblivion Sower
(26) Non-Creature Spells
4 Lobotomy
4 Counterspell
3 Lethal Vapors
2 Overburden
4 Vapor Snag
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Consult the Necrosages(22) Lands
3 Sunken Ruins
1 Tainted Isle
4 Choaked Estuary
7 Swamp
7 Island
It focuses on keeping the battlefield clean while using your opponents exiled cards against them. Does a fine job at both too, if I do say so myself.
-
1
enigma_b posted a message on R/G Dragons - feedbackRorix was the first single I ever bought! You're right in thinking that many newer creatures are much more powerful than older ones. Not really too terrible of a thing though. Thunderbreak Regent could be something you'll want to pick up. Sarkhan the Unbroken could be an interesting inclusion. With all the ramp, a copy or two of Dragonspeaker Shaman could be awesome, along with Dragon Tempest. Just some thoughts to help you out.Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats -
1
Rezzahan posted a message on R/G Dragons - feedbackAre you willing to buy new cards, or do you just want to see what you can build with stuff from Scourge and before? For now, I'll assume your card availability to be the later.Posted in: Casual & Multiplayer Formats
My own multicolored dragons deck, built sometime around Kamigawa, was heavily Onslaught based, so I can draw some ideas out of that. The sweeper of choice for me was Slice and Dice, and up to a value of X=4, it is better than Starstorm most of the time. I used it frequently to clear away early small swarms or just some mana dorks by cycling it, and when I had developed my mana enough to start pumping out big dragons, I would first clear the board by casting it. Don't know, how well that would still work nowadays, though.
My mana accel came from land search in the form of Sakura-Tribe Elder (awesome card, even now) and Kodama's Reach. I would go up to 6 mana by turn 4 quite fequently. In Onslaught, you have a similar card to the Reach in Explosive Vegetation, which can bring you from 4 to 6 mana in one step. The advantage of massive land search over mana dorks is, that you thin out the deck's lands so that you get to draw more business spells. A few land search effects are usually negligible in that regard, but on a larger scale, this becomes significant. Wood Elves could be a substitute for the Elders, since all you really need is more lands. Such small utility creatures are quite good at stalling untilthe big guys arrive, since they already had their main effects. Chump blocking is just a bonus and no real loss, because they would die to the sweeper prior to the first dragon anyway.
Another small Scourge creature you really want to play is Fierce Empath, tutoring up more dragons, which is, what your Kilnmouth Dragons need. Or get the Kilnmouth to cash in the dragon goodness in your hand.
I would not bother with small spot removal like Incinerate. You are playing dragons, so think big.
With green land search, you can easily add a third color, like black for some copies of Bladewing the Risen. Other graveyard reanimation will also be handy, since your dragons will have huge targets on their heads. You can run the generic Zombify, for exmaple, if you don't have anying better. A few copies of Aphetto Dredging can also get back your dragons and give you fuel for a big Kilnmouth Dragon. I originally had Death Denied in my deck, and it once got me a fricking 21 counters on my lone Kilnmouth due to a hand full of dragons. And I made it even bigger with a dying Jugan, the Rising Star. "t: target player loses the game." on a 31/31 flying beatstick. Fun times.
In my experience, cost reducers like Dragonspeaker Shaman don't work so well, since without them you don't get to your dragons very fast. Reliable mana from searched up lands is better. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1
I also was looking for a way to teach newbies (such as my GF) MTG, but my Legacy decks are way too complicated for someone never having played a TCG. Your decks look like a great starting point and I will continue following your optimizations!