This looks awesome, would you be able to put up a log of how this deck has performed at an fnm or vs certain archetypes in the meta? I'd be pretty interested in trying something like this out.
I can definitely do that. I mainly play a Mono-Black Devotion deck, so I probably won't play this deck too often (maybe when I need a break from my main deck for a week or so). But, I'll keep this thread updated with how the deck runs.
This looks fun as heck! And cheap (relatively speaking). I've always wanted to use Reaver.
I know this is the budget forum, but what would be some options to include if you weren't on a budget? I'm not a fan of dredge and this looks much more fun.
I'm not great with green. The only time I get to see it is when someone else is playing it. For the most part, green and I just don't agree. It's not that I don't want to play the color. It's just that when I do, the deck totally falls apart on me. So, take this all as you will (maybe with a grain of salt).
All removal should be changed to Hero's Downfall. Nothing like being able to kill Planeswalkers at instant speed.
I'd probably keep Elvish Mystic, but for two drop ramp, I'd definitely go with Sylvan Caryatid. Insanely good card!
Depending on how much black you wanted to play, you could play Whip of Erebos to give all of your creatures lifelink. Also, as shown above, you'd need a few Bow of Nylea to make sure that, when attacking, all of your creatures would have deathtouch.
From there, it'd kinda be up to you if you wanted to play Erebos, god of the dead or Nylea, god of the hunt. Erebos would make sure that your opponent couldn't gain life. And, if you have enough devotion, he's a hard hitter. Nylea gives all your creatures trample which could be very helpful as well. Or, you could wait until the Golgari god card comes out in Journey Into Nyx. It's a three drop god card, so it's going to be faster coming onto the field than the other god cards. But, it still does require seven devotion unlike Erebos and Nylea who only require five.
Let me make a quick additional edit to this post... As far as removal goes, I'd also highly recommend Abrupt Decay. It's an a very, very good removal card that can't be countered. So, add or remove cards as you wish though I would leave at least a couple of Hero's Downfall in the list.
I would probably run Dark Betrayal in a sideboard. Have you considered Putrefy at all?
Putrefy is probably a better idea overall. I think my thought process was that none of that removal can take care of Planeswalkers, so I was considering just taking the four Hero's Downfall I use for my Mono-Black Devotion deck and swapping them out to use in this Golgari Deathtouch deck whenever I played it. But, then I realized that four Hero's Downfall essentially doubled the cost of the deck and didn't really make it budget anymore. So, my mind drifted back to Doom Blade and Dark Betrayal and Putrefy slipped my mind. That is a really good idea though. I'll probably change the original post to run four Putrefy instead.
Also, Black Devotion morphs between Mono-Black/BW Devotion and BU Devotion with different cards swapped in based on players tastes. All the above cards are good, its more about getting a fit for what you enjoy.
Maybe it is just me, but I do like to use my scry lands to play something in that color. Right now, I'm running Temple of Deceit. I'll probably be either trading those or just flat out buying Temple of Silence instead so that I can run Revoke Existence (becoming Deicide when that card comes out). I'd probably also run Blood Baron of Vizkopa if I ran Temple of Silence, but that's getting into a much higher budget range.
If we take a look a little into Journey Into Nyx, I'm a little concerned as I depend on Erebos, God of the Dead quite a bit. So, I don't want Deicide hitting me. I can easily counter it with Psychic Strike with my current setup. But, if I keep the Black/splash Blue setup, I won't have the mana necessary to play Deicide, and Iroas is just flat out scary (every creature getting Madcap Skills *and* Fog Bank when attacking). So, I might end up having to run a Black/splash Blue & White to make all that work. Or, just do the best I can to get as much Black Devotion as I can in an Esper deck.
I thought about Rogue's Passage just as I clicked the Post button and went on to do something else for a while. I just didn't get a chance to change it. That's definitely going into the deck, though.
I thought about Thrill-Kill Assassin, and honestly, I just don't see it being worthwhile as it can't ever be a blocker if unleashed and therefore loses the deathtouch ability when blockers are needed. It's a good, cheap CMC attacker, but for Deathtouch to work correctly, you need them to work as blockers as well.
Baleful Eidolon is a card that I'm considering using for the main reason of triggering Heroic on Agent of the Fates. That's another reason for all of the ramp. Yes, 5 CMC is the highest I'll get to, but I may want to play Vraska the Unseen and Bestow Baleful Eidolon on the same turn. The big downside to that is that I'd lose Deadly Recluse which doesn't give me a way to block flyers. So, I'm going to have to work that out somehow. Maybe I'll use Baleful Eidolon with Deadly Recluse in the sideboard if they happen to bring out flyers in the first game.
As far as what to put in the sideboard... I haven't given that part much thought yet other than what I just mentioned above. I want to test it a few times without a sideboard to find out what it's lacking and build from there.
Dredge is non-standard. Ash Zealot hoses graveyard shenanigans, yes, but in the current standard setting, its effect is used infrequently. A 2/2 with haste and first strike is not bad, but it's no Vexing Devil.
Dredge is an Archetype not just a card. Dredge decks are also referred to as "Graveyard decks." Essentially, you use your graveyard (milling yourself) to build up creatures like Nighthowler which if bestowed on the right creature can have some devastating effects. Even by itself, Nighthowler can be nasty in the Graveyard or "Dredge" deck Archetype.
I think Dredge decks are just barely starting to make their first appearances. I don't think it'll be much longer until many more people are playing the Dredge Archetype. That being said, though, it does look like Golgari has the best chance at making Dredge work with it's really good removal and access to creatures like Nighthowler as well as other self mill cards.
If it were me, I'd find a way to mainboard Revoke Existence at least until Deicide comes out in Journey Into Nyx. That way, you can exile gods and weapons without any issue. Deicide will be amazing when it comes out. I might up Searing Blood to 3 and lower Skullcrack to 3. Searing Blood is just such an amazing Burn card. And, Skullcrack, while a very good card, IMHO, can only do damage to players where Searing Blood can hit both a creature and a player at the same time.
Bestow is a really horrible mechanic that should have never seen the light of day.
Bestow is not a bad thing. You just need to make sure your deck can support it if you're playing it. Dredge decks bestow Nighthowler a good bit. And, the icing on the cake is that, if the creature that has been bestowed is destroyed, the Aura Enchantment turns back into a creature. So, you don't end up losing a desperately needed blocker... or in the case of Nighthowler, a very strong attacker if played correctly.
Golgari Dredge is quickly rising in the world of competitive MTG. Try to catch a few feature matches on the SCGLive Channel on Twitch sometime on a Saturday when they are running a Standard Open. You'll see at least one Dredge deck at a feature match table. Is it huge, yet? No. Is it gaining popularity? Yes. So, I wouldn't count out Golgari just yet.
One more quick thing I didn't think about until just now. If you do decide to run Psychic Strike and find that it's a dead draw for you, then use it as your discard to make another rat from Pack Rat. In the case of Pack Rat, really no card in your deck ends up being a dead draw.
I've been putting a good amount of playtime into this deck recently, and I've found that Erebos, God of the Dead is a really important card to run. I know that there are several Mono-Black lists out there (even SCG Top 8 lists) that don't run Erebos mainboard, but I would suggest it. First of all, he's easy to activate only needing five devotion compared to the newer two color god cards that need 7. Secondly, he's a hard hitting attacker when he is active. He's a 5/7. It's not impossible, but very few people are going to have a blocker that has a power of 7 to get rid of Erebos. So, while he may be blocked, the blocking creature will most likely die. Thirdly, he stops opponents' life gain which is huge. There are several decks out there built around life gain. With Whip of Erebos out as well, you're likely gaining a lot of life while your opponent can't (not to mention that the Whip can bring any creature back from the graveyard for a turn).
As far as the temples go... no, don't cut them. Unless you mainboard something like Read the Bones, we Mono-Black Devotion players don't really have a card that lets us scry. And, scrying can swing things very much in your favor.
Lastly, as far as my deck being an aggro deck... surprisingly, it's really not. The only creature that really gets big enough to attack quickly enough is usually Pack Rat. Rakdos Cackler can make for some good early game pressure, but it doesn't stand up long against most decks I've played against in the current meta (like it's completely useless if a player plays Sylvan Caryatid as a blocker). You'd think that Nightveil Specter would do a good amount of grunt work for my deck, but anyone who is running any removal gets rid of that card ASAP. So, what ends up being my main source of life as well as damage? Gray Merchant of Asphodel. That card alone has won me more than one game. Though, I would say that if you can get Pack Rat rolling, just keep making rats and hope you can outrun Bile Blight. Pack Rat can easily swarm and take out your opponent before they even know what hit them.
This is the main deck I run. Granted, it doesn't have Thoughtseize or Mutavault, but I wouldn't really consider it budget either. Per tcgplayer.com mid, it's worth just over $125. One recommendation that I would make (that I saw on one of the feature matches during an SCG Open on Twitch) is to run at least a couple of copies of Psychic Strike (a very nice Dimir Counter/Mill card) if you're going to run BU Scry Lands. Not only does it give you the ability to scry, but it gives you a reason to be running U as well. Also, there aren't a lot of people that expect a Mono-Black Devotion deck running Scry Lands to actually be running Counters as they expect the Scry Lands to be there only to scry. So, it could very easily take them by surprise and possibly throw them off their game (especially if you can counter what they think might be their current win condition).
SG
Let me make a quick additional edit to this post... As far as removal goes, I'd also highly recommend Abrupt Decay. It's an a very, very good removal card that can't be countered. So, add or remove cards as you wish though I would leave at least a couple of Hero's Downfall in the list.
Thanks for the reminder!
SG
If we take a look a little into Journey Into Nyx, I'm a little concerned as I depend on Erebos, God of the Dead quite a bit. So, I don't want Deicide hitting me. I can easily counter it with Psychic Strike with my current setup. But, if I keep the Black/splash Blue setup, I won't have the mana necessary to play Deicide, and Iroas is just flat out scary (every creature getting Madcap Skills *and* Fog Bank when attacking). So, I might end up having to run a Black/splash Blue & White to make all that work. Or, just do the best I can to get as much Black Devotion as I can in an Esper deck.
SG
I thought about Thrill-Kill Assassin, and honestly, I just don't see it being worthwhile as it can't ever be a blocker if unleashed and therefore loses the deathtouch ability when blockers are needed. It's a good, cheap CMC attacker, but for Deathtouch to work correctly, you need them to work as blockers as well.
Baleful Eidolon is a card that I'm considering using for the main reason of triggering Heroic on Agent of the Fates. That's another reason for all of the ramp. Yes, 5 CMC is the highest I'll get to, but I may want to play Vraska the Unseen and Bestow Baleful Eidolon on the same turn. The big downside to that is that I'd lose Deadly Recluse which doesn't give me a way to block flyers. So, I'm going to have to work that out somehow. Maybe I'll use Baleful Eidolon with Deadly Recluse in the sideboard if they happen to bring out flyers in the first game.
As far as what to put in the sideboard... I haven't given that part much thought yet other than what I just mentioned above. I want to test it a few times without a sideboard to find out what it's lacking and build from there.
Thanks for the suggestions!
SG
9 Forest
4 Golgari Guildgate
1 Rogue's Passage
6 Swamp
Creatures (24)
3 Elvish Mystic
4 Wasteland Viper
4 Deadly Recluse
3 Vastwood Hydra
3 Voyaging Satyr
4 Agent of the Fates
3 Liliana's Reaver
4 Burst of Strength
4 Savage Surge
2 Bow of Nylea
4 Putrefy
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Vraska the Unseen
2 Baleful Eidolon
2 Giant Growth
2 Alpha Authority
1 Mending Touch
3 Nylea's Disciple
2 Crypt Incursion
3 Mortal's Resolve
Any suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance
SG
I think Dredge decks are just barely starting to make their first appearances. I don't think it'll be much longer until many more people are playing the Dredge Archetype. That being said, though, it does look like Golgari has the best chance at making Dredge work with it's really good removal and access to creatures like Nighthowler as well as other self mill cards.
As an example of the Dredge Archetype, here's the Constructed Standard Golgari decklist of Ari Lax who finished 15th at Grand Prix Cincinati: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=65241
SG
That's just my $0.02 though
SG
SG
SG
SG
As far as the temples go... no, don't cut them. Unless you mainboard something like Read the Bones, we Mono-Black Devotion players don't really have a card that lets us scry. And, scrying can swing things very much in your favor.
Lastly, as far as my deck being an aggro deck... surprisingly, it's really not. The only creature that really gets big enough to attack quickly enough is usually Pack Rat. Rakdos Cackler can make for some good early game pressure, but it doesn't stand up long against most decks I've played against in the current meta (like it's completely useless if a player plays Sylvan Caryatid as a blocker). You'd think that Nightveil Specter would do a good amount of grunt work for my deck, but anyone who is running any removal gets rid of that card ASAP. So, what ends up being my main source of life as well as damage? Gray Merchant of Asphodel. That card alone has won me more than one game. Though, I would say that if you can get Pack Rat rolling, just keep making rats and hope you can outrun Bile Blight. Pack Rat can easily swarm and take out your opponent before they even know what hit them.
Hope that helps some
SG
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
18 Swamp
3 Temple of Deceit
Creatures (22)
3 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pack Rat
3 Rakdos Shred-Freak
3 Nightveil Specter
3 Desecration Demon
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Duress
2 Devour Flesh
1 Ultimate Price
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Psychic Strike
3 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Illness in the Ranks
2 Bile Blight
1 Devour Flesh
2 Pharika's Cure
2 Ultimate Price
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Read the Bones
22 Swamp
Creatures (21)
3 Rakdos Cackler
4 Pack Rat
3 Rakdos Shred-Freak
2 Nightveil Specter
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Devour Flesh
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Duress
3 Ultimate Price
3 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Rakdos Guildgate
7 Swamp
11 Mountain
Creatures (17)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
4 Hellhole Flailer
3 Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
2 Rakdos, Lord of Riots
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Deviant Glee
3 Duress
3 Shock
3 Doom Blade
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Searing Blood
3 Chandra's Outrage