This deck can really beat kithkin. About Elves i don't know. But what about the faerie matchup. Faeries are THE DECK TO BEAT ... so what can help this deck not to get the ass kicked ...
I tried Bitterblossom in the midrange aggro ... and it works well against fearies ... more thoughts on that ?
Firespout is the answer that comes to mind. Of course this answer would change the mana base of the deck significantly, however it may prove versatile enough to run main deck.
I'm running the elemental version of this deck with Flamekin Bladewhirl and Tattermunge Maniac. I have found that Vengeful Firebrand have been a great finisher for the deck as it almost universally has haste. I'd love to hear some thoughts on this one.
I've been having some trouble with my aggro matches, namely goblin and Doran. I'm currently running Terminate and Armadillo cloak in the side for these match ups, but I keep loosing the attrition war to Doran, and killing myself via land to goblin. Could someone advise me on what best to side out for these SB cards. Also I was thinking about maybe subbing Paladin en-vec as a Sb card because it is virtually immune to removals these decks pack. Any thoughts?
I have virtually never won on or before turn 3. Sure, there are opening hands that can win that fast, but they involve having the right 3 to 5 cards, but adding Doran doesn't necessitate the removal of those cards. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm willing to accept that Doran might be too slow, but I'd like someone to illustrate how. Swiftblade shenanigans aside what are the better plays for turn 1-3 that makes you not want to play Doran? Currently I'm advocating him over Gaddok in the main deck.
Everyone keeps talking about how good Doran is, why not play him? He's essentially a 5/5 for 3, he makes apes and goyf a little better, and he's another pumper for the swiftblade. (that is if you still use him) The only anti-synergy is with reckless charge and I don't think anyone is calling that a linchpin of the deck.
This decklist uses the same strategy with lands as the last deck, but is slanted much more towards aggro creatures and spells.
I moved Evasive Action to the SB and replaced it with Chainer's Edict because it get's around untargetable creatures and can flash back in the late game.
Vinelasher Kudzu was also replaced with Goblin Legionnaire. I would like to hear what people think about this move. It seems to weaken the late game, but is more aggressive in the early game, and gives the deck greater reach.
I feel pretty strong about this decklist. I would really like to hear some sugestions about the sideboard. I got beat up by affinity in the last game I lost, but I feel bad about teching for only one deck in the metta. If you like, please try out this build and let me know what you think.
This is my current decklist. The hierachs and Helixs are a must beacause of the life gain.
I've dabbled with Loxodon Hierarch in the main deck. What scares me is revealing him when I'm low on life. I've been running him in the SB to replace Dark Confidant in aggro matchups. That has worked really well. How is the matchup vs control with your build? I usually overwhelm them when they counter my first creature cast, then force through the second. I'd imagine Hierarch makes it a bit difficult to do that early enough consistantly.
Quote from Wisp »
i havent really found the discard to be essencial.
I agree! I moved the discard to the side also.
Quote from Wisp »
I dont think that watchwolf is great in this deck as it has a double colour cc which is bad on turn 2 if you are playing more than 3 colours. I wonder if anyone has tried using drekavac instead.
I'm gonna post a new land base for this deck tomorow that I think will allow Watchwolf to be played easily. I'm really excited about it!
i would say that the land D you suggested are not conventional.
they do not gain you any advantage at all.
because blastminer's ability is too costly, and only targets nonbasic lands.
lava blister targets nonbasic lands and may not exactly destroy one.
tremble does not gain you much advantage.
uncontrolled infestation is just useless.
the point about land d is to destroy lands not just nonbasic lands.
remember that your land D spells have a problem with fetchlands and the like.
playing land d is to get it countered or waste an opponent's turn, so it does not matter if you have the spell countered.
playing land D is so much so to let your creatures have one more turn to attack.
Land D must be able to destroy basic lands as well or its useless.
My only issue is that most regular land destruction starts at 3 mana. I really prefer things to cost 2 or less, unless it's an incredible spell, or it has life gain. Maybe there is a more effective means of gaining an extra turn. Remand pretty much gains me a turn, and draw's a card. It dosn't disrupt enemy land tempo tho. A bounce spell might fit the bill, but I can't think of one that can target lands and isn't double blue in the CC. Exhaustion is also pretty good, but it costs 3 also.
My thinking is that land destruction is quite effective against decks that peak in the mid to late game. But against hard core aggro they are pretty terrible unless your opponant is getting mana screwed. Vindicate is not terrible against aggro, at worst it's expensive removal, which is why it's main deck.
I would argue that it is possible that another LD spell might have a home in the sideboard. Dwarven Blastminer, Lava Blister, Tremble, and Uncontrolled Infestation are all land destruction that can slip under counter magic. Of those Dwarven Blastminer seems the best. In fact it was actually used in Jim Roy, the deck Versitility is based on, but I do really like Lava Blister.
hmm, may i suggest some basic land D in this deck like Stone Rain, or Pillage?
i suggest them because they are tempo cards.
they destroy one of your opponent's lands, while giving you one more free turn to attack.
Watchwolf is a must in this deck
Armadilo Cloak is better than moldervine cloak.
Kudzu is decent.
To tell you the truth I end up using Vindicate on lands most of the time.
I'm running 4 Watchwolf in the deck right now, but only 3 Vinelasher Kudzu in my current build. I'll post it as soon as I work out the mana kinks. It's looking really good tho.
i think the idea of threat diversity is great and with some careful deck building could be very strong. Have you tried farseek in this dech? I havent tested it but it looks good...but it might be a bit slow.
Farseek is a bit slow for the deck. It dosn't really need it anyways. The fetchlands make up for all the land search needed and they work so well with Vinelasher Kudzu. With everyhting costing 3 mana or less the accleration is actually a bit of a tempo loss.
Thanks for the enthusiasm. Needless to say I love threat diversity. There is something satisfying about tricking an opponant into sideboarding for a deck your not playing.
Firespout is the answer that comes to mind. Of course this answer would change the mana base of the deck significantly, however it may prove versatile enough to run main deck.
I'm running the elemental version of this deck with Flamekin Bladewhirl and Tattermunge Maniac. I have found that
Vengeful Firebrand have been a great finisher for the deck as it almost universally has haste. I'd love to hear some thoughts on this one.
Aurora Eidolon
Enigama Eidolon
Entropic Eidolon
Sandstorm Eidolon
Verdant Eidolon
I'm of the opinion that only the green might be worth it.
1 plains
1 swamp
1 mountain
1 forest
4 stomping ground
4 godless shrine
1 hallowed fountain
1 watery grave
4 bloodstained mire
4 windswept heath
4 dark confidant
4 watchwolf
4 goblin legionnaire
4 kird ape
3 isamaru, hound of konda
3 grim lavamacer
Spells = 16
4 firebolt
4 tribal flames
4 lightning helix
4 chainer's edict
4 pithing needle
4 shred memory
4 vindicate
3 rain of gore
This decklist uses the same strategy with lands as the last deck, but is slanted much more towards aggro creatures and spells.
I moved Evasive Action to the SB and replaced it with Chainer's Edict because it get's around untargetable creatures and can flash back in the late game.
Vinelasher Kudzu was also replaced with Goblin Legionnaire. I would like to hear what people think about this move. It seems to weaken the late game, but is more aggressive in the early game, and gives the deck greater reach.
Is Rain of Gore worth having in the SB?
1 plains
1 swamp
1 mountain
1 forest
3 stomping ground
3 hallowed fountain
2 watery grave
1 godless shrine
1 steam vents
1 overgrown tomb
2 polluted delta
3 bloodstained mire
4 windswept heath
4 dark confidant
4 watchwolf
4 kird ape
2 isamaru, hound of konda
2 vinelasher kudzu
2 grim lavamacer
Spells
4 vindicate
4 tribal flames
4 lightning helix
4 evasive action
2 armadillo cloak
4 pithing needle
4 shred memory
3 loxodon hierarch
2 cabal therapy
2 duress
I feel pretty strong about this decklist. I would really like to hear some sugestions about the sideboard. I got beat up by affinity in the last game I lost, but I feel bad about teching for only one deck in the metta. If you like, please try out this build and let me know what you think.
I've dabbled with Loxodon Hierarch in the main deck. What scares me is revealing him when I'm low on life. I've been running him in the SB to replace Dark Confidant in aggro matchups. That has worked really well. How is the matchup vs control with your build? I usually overwhelm them when they counter my first creature cast, then force through the second. I'd imagine Hierarch makes it a bit difficult to do that early enough consistantly.
I agree! I moved the discard to the side also.
I'm gonna post a new land base for this deck tomorow that I think will allow Watchwolf to be played easily. I'm really excited about it!
My only issue is that most regular land destruction starts at 3 mana. I really prefer things to cost 2 or less, unless it's an incredible spell, or it has life gain. Maybe there is a more effective means of gaining an extra turn. Remand pretty much gains me a turn, and draw's a card. It dosn't disrupt enemy land tempo tho. A bounce spell might fit the bill, but I can't think of one that can target lands and isn't double blue in the CC. Exhaustion is also pretty good, but it costs 3 also.
I would argue that it is possible that another LD spell might have a home in the sideboard. Dwarven Blastminer, Lava Blister, Tremble, and Uncontrolled Infestation are all land destruction that can slip under counter magic. Of those Dwarven Blastminer seems the best. In fact it was actually used in Jim Roy, the deck Versitility is based on, but I do really like Lava Blister.
What are your oppinions?
To tell you the truth I end up using Vindicate on lands most of the time.
I'm running 4 Watchwolf in the deck right now, but only 3 Vinelasher Kudzu in my current build. I'll post it as soon as I work out the mana kinks. It's looking really good tho.
Farseek is a bit slow for the deck. It dosn't really need it anyways. The fetchlands make up for all the land search needed and they work so well with Vinelasher Kudzu. With everyhting costing 3 mana or less the accleration is actually a bit of a tempo loss.
Thanks for the enthusiasm. Needless to say I love threat diversity. There is something satisfying about tricking an opponant into sideboarding for a deck your not playing.