When he gets going, Tormod, the Desecrator can spew out a surprisingly absurd amount of Tokens. But how do we get him going? These are the engines I've found so far:
Gravecrawler, Reassembling Skeleton, Bloodsoaked Champion and Nether Traitor. Basically any creature that brings itself back easily and repeatably. I think you want to do it for 2 mana or less, and these are the ones that fit this criterium. Are there any other cards like this that I've overlooked?
Promise of Immortality brings back a creature and itself once per turn, generating two Tormod triggers each time. Fun times!
Colfenor, the Last Yew is interesting because Tormod makes 2/2s, which can bring back creatures with 1 toughness through Colfenor, in turn generating more 2/2s.
Personally, I think Akroma is just rather boring while Liesa is really interesting. She warps the game for greedy decks (of which there are all too many in this format :D) and is actually built to deal with the hate she generates because she never gets more expensive no matter how often she's removed. You can also build her with tons of pillowfort and lifegain instead of full group slug if you want a more relaxed approach.
I've been brewing around with [[Tormod, the Desecrator]] for a while and he can be an absolute house. I've seen him partnered mainly with blue for the selfmill, but I went with [[Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa]] to get Abzan colors for a more Aristocratsy approach
Withered Wretch is grave hate that also can target your own yard in a pinch to create a zombie every time.
I've also considered Colfenor, the Last Yew, because every 2/2 zombie brings back a 1 toughness creature. However, he is a bit expensive.
So far, the deck has been really fun, though I have run into one issue: Neither Commander actually helps you set up your engine in any way, so you need a lot of pieces. I've been trying to alleviate this with a robust tutor suite as all three colors contribute powerful pieces here. Furthermore, I've tried to focus on cards that play well with most other Aristocrats pieces by themselves and shied away from too many cards that require you to already have a big board. However, I still can't quite shake the feeling that what I've actually built is a Tevesh Szat deck...
Perhaps Tormod should go for more dredge than what I have built here. However, I have found that Tormod doesn't actually require many cards in the graveyard - his engines just need one Gravecrawler, or one creature with Gift of Immortality on the field.
How have you built Tormod? And would you have any suggestions for this deck in particular? Let me know!
However, while I love the idea of such a deck, I haven't been able to really make it work. How does a finished decklist look like? What its actual path to victory? Who commands?
So I was hoping perhaps you guys could help me Whats the most tricky deck you ever played or against? Any ideas are appreciated!
Jeskai Ascendancy would be awesome on a commander. For some reason, none of the Jeskai commanders have worked for me yet when trying to build a spellslinger deck, even though I know they're objectively great options. The Ascendancy is probably my favorite Jeskai card though.
I'm testing out the Ultimate Guard Twin Flip'n'Tray at the moment, but have also found that double-sleeved decks are a very tight fit - to the point I think the cards may even be getting bent a little, even though I'm using Ultimate Guard's own Katana sleeves (though Dragon Shield inners). It's possible this may get better after a few days though as newly double-sleeved decks are always a bit thicker until the air is fully pressed out. For now, I'm not cramming the decks back into the tray though. I was quite disappointed that such an expensive and otherwise excellent deck box isn't a bit more generous with the space. Apart from that, I actually really like the design because you can use the dice tray for the tokens corresponding to the decks, and not many deck boxes have an extra space suitable for tokens.
Whenever I'm building a new deck, I find that there's tons of staples I want to run that cost three mana, but I have a much harder time getting in enough good cards for one and two mana so the deck reliably does something the first few turns. There are some staples like Skullclamp or the humble Sakura-Tribe Elder, but not as many as for the crowded three mana slots - and quite a few aren't exactly budget-friendly (like Land Tax, Sylvan Library or Mana Vault). So I was wondering, what are your favorite cards at lower mana costs that help you keep the mana curve in check and can still do good work throughout a game of Commander?
I just came across this thread and it convinced to give Jori En a try as well! My story doesn't appear to be unique here: I started with Niv-Mizzet, Parun and enjoyed his gameplay, but became frustrated by having such a huge target on my back combined with such an expensive Commander.
This is my first draft, so it's probably far from perfect, starting off with a modified version of my Niv list. It skews a bit more towards control than some others have seen, which stems from the fact that I do tend to be among the first targets in my playgroup (deservedly so, Jori En is part of an effort to become a bit less threatening). Perhaps I'll make some more modifications if it turns out that Jori En needs less control elemeents.
I realize The Unspeakable chain is probably terribad, but I thought if there's ever a deck for it, it's this one, so I decided to give it a go for fun. Firemind's Foresight can even tutor it up! Might get cut in the future though. If you have any further feedback, I'd love to hear it!
While I'm a big fan of control decks, I'm finding myself having trouble building them well in Commander. We're playing at a decent powerlevel, but still casual, so without MLD or overly oppressive stax. With control commanders like Niv-Mizzet or Dralnu, it's fairly easy to get a win if people don't focus you early because you have no intimidating board presence - but of course that's not a mistake people will frequently repeat once they've seen what an unchecked Niv can do in the lategame. In the early game, however, if several more creature-based decks go after you, I found myself struggling.
How do you guys build your decks to deal with this? Up the wrath count? If so, how many sweepers do you think are ideal? I've already started running a few cards like Propaganda and Maze of Ith, but there's not actually that many of those.
Kykar might be a new control commander who has in-built against this very problem by creating chump blockers, but I'm curious about more general advice. Looking forward to your thoughts!
Do you guys know if anyone has already compiled Nicky Drayden's Ravnica story vignettes as ebooks? I know Wizards used to do that and I found fan versions of everything up to M19, but not for Guilds and Allegiance. I'm downloading all the recent story material onto my Kindle right now to read it again in preparation for the book, and these are all I'm missing.
Thanks for the suggestions! Beastmaster Ascension probably comes closest in sheer (permanent) power level, I feel stupid for forgetting that card. Mirror Entity is also a cool idea, though it's a much bigger mana investment. Jazal Goldmane and Kamahl, Fist of Krosa might be other options in a similiar vein.
God Eternal Rhonas is very strong, but I think you want him in a different deck than Cathar's Crusade. He seems less about buffing swarms and more about creatures that are already huge.
I think between 25 and 30 is a good baseline for the card type your deck cares about, whatever that might be (instants and sorceries for Niv-Mizzet, Parun, and vampires for Edgar). Higher can be even better, but once you're at 30, you don't need to force more at any cost - also keep open spots for stuff like ramp and control which can't be always be had in the exact form your deck would like.
I've recently gotten fed up with Cathar's Crusade. Not with opponents using it against me, but actually playing it myself because tracking the counters on every single creature quickly becomes insufferable. It's fine when a lot of creatures enter at the same time, but I'm using it with Emmara, Soul of the Accord and Ghave, Guru of Spores. This means the creatures often all enter one after the other and the boardstate ends up a mess of creatures who all have slightly different stats.
So I'm looking to replace the card and I'm aware it's best in class, so I'm ready to take a power hit, but I'm looking to minimize it as much as I can. However, are there any cards who do the job even remotely as well? Cathar's Crusade offers both extreme potential for explosiveness (I recently got 200 400/400 pegasi off it thanks to Storm Herd and Doubling Season) and resilience, as the counters stick around even when it's gone.
Isn't Nekusar frequently cited as one of the most hated generals to play against? Maybe less so since some other powerhouses have come along, but I don't think constantly wheeling them and inflicting massive and rapid amounts of damage against which combat can't defend is all that much of a nice experience for new players. Not saying you shouldn't build Nekusar since he fits quite a few of your other criteria, but I don't think being nice to new players is something he does well. I'd rather go with Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis for that.
Have you found any more interesting engine pieces for Tormod? I'm looking forward to your ideas!
1 Tormod, the Desecrator
1 Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa
Planeswalkers (3)
1 Vivien, Monsters' Advocate
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Creatures (36)
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
1 Ophiomancer
1 Karmic Guide
1 Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
1 Smothering Abomination
1 Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Withered Wretch
1 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
1 Dawntreader Elk
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Protean Hulk
1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
1 Gravecrawler
1 Ravenous Chupacabra
1 Pitiless Plunderer
1 Blood Artist
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 False Prophet
1 Wood Elves
1 Diligent Farmhand
1 Elvish Rejuvenator
1 Springbloom Druid
1 Sun Titan
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Viscera Seer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Mitotic Slime
1 Eldritch Evolution
1 Diabolic Intent
Artifacts (7)
1 Sol Ring
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Birthing Pod
1 Skullclamp
1 Arcane Signet
1 Spawning Pit
Enchantments (12)
1 Moldervine Reclamation
1 Aura Shards
1 Guardian Project
1 Fanatical Devotion
1 Awakening Zone
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Tortured Existence
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc // Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun
1 Gift of Immortality
1 Attrition
1 Doubling Season
Lands (38)
1 Khalni Garden
3 Forest
3 Plains
4 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Canopy Vista
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Brushland
1 Indatha Triome
1 High Market
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Tainted Field
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Tainted Wood
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Command Tower
1 Undergrowth Stadium
1 Vault of Champions
1 Brightclimb Pathway // Grimclimb Pathway
1 Bountiful Promenade
1 Branchloft Pathway // Boulderloft Pathway
1 Terramorphic Expanse
These colors offer plenty of ways to abuse your tokens in addition to some really fun engines:
I've also considered Colfenor, the Last Yew, because every 2/2 zombie brings back a 1 toughness creature. However, he is a bit expensive.
So far, the deck has been really fun, though I have run into one issue: Neither Commander actually helps you set up your engine in any way, so you need a lot of pieces. I've been trying to alleviate this with a robust tutor suite as all three colors contribute powerful pieces here. Furthermore, I've tried to focus on cards that play well with most other Aristocrats pieces by themselves and shied away from too many cards that require you to already have a big board. However, I still can't quite shake the feeling that what I've actually built is a Tevesh Szat deck...
Perhaps Tormod should go for more dredge than what I have built here. However, I have found that Tormod doesn't actually require many cards in the graveyard - his engines just need one Gravecrawler, or one creature with Gift of Immortality on the field.
How have you built Tormod? And would you have any suggestions for this deck in particular? Let me know!
However, while I love the idea of such a deck, I haven't been able to really make it work. How does a finished decklist look like? What its actual path to victory? Who commands?
So I was hoping perhaps you guys could help me Whats the most tricky deck you ever played or against? Any ideas are appreciated!
I just came across this thread and it convinced to give Jori En a try as well! My story doesn't appear to be unique here: I started with Niv-Mizzet, Parun and enjoyed his gameplay, but became frustrated by having such a huge target on my back combined with such an expensive Commander.
This is my first draft, so it's probably far from perfect, starting off with a modified version of my Niv list. It skews a bit more towards control than some others have seen, which stems from the fact that I do tend to be among the first targets in my playgroup (deservedly so, Jori En is part of an effort to become a bit less threatening). Perhaps I'll make some more modifications if it turns out that Jori En needs less control elemeents.
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Forgotten Cave
13 Island
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Lonely Sandbar
9 Mountain
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Shivan Reef
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terramorphic Expanse
//Artifacts
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Izzet Signet
1 Primal Amulet
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Sol Ring
1 Talisman of Creativity
1 Thaumatic Compass
1 Thought Vessel
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
//Enchantments
1 Future Sight
1 Propaganda
1 Arcane Denial
1 Brainstorm
1 Chaos Warp
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Delay
1 Everdream
1 Expansion // Explosion
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Impulse
1 Izzet Charm
1 Learn from the Past
1 Mission Briefing
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Opt
1 Peek
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Quicken
1 Reach Through Mists
1 Reality Shift
1 Sift Through Sands
1 Swan Song
1 Telling Time
1 Think Twice
1 Tolarian Winds
1 Visions of Beyond
1 All Is Dust
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Bond of Insight
1 Brass's Bounty
1 Expropriate
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 Rite of Replication
1 Role Reversal
1 Shattering Spree
1 Spelltwine
//Creatures
1 Baral, Chief of Compliance
1 Crackling Drake
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Electrostatic Field
1 Firebrand Archer
1 Goblin Electromancer
1 Guttersnipe
1 Murmuring Mystic
1 Niv-Mizzet, Parun
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 The Locust God
1 The Unspeakable
1 Thing in the Ice
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Young Pyromancer
I realize The Unspeakable chain is probably terribad, but I thought if there's ever a deck for it, it's this one, so I decided to give it a go for fun. Firemind's Foresight can even tutor it up! Might get cut in the future though. If you have any further feedback, I'd love to hear it!
How do you guys build your decks to deal with this? Up the wrath count? If so, how many sweepers do you think are ideal? I've already started running a few cards like Propaganda and Maze of Ith, but there's not actually that many of those.
Kykar might be a new control commander who has in-built against this very problem by creating chump blockers, but I'm curious about more general advice. Looking forward to your thoughts!
God Eternal Rhonas is very strong, but I think you want him in a different deck than Cathar's Crusade. He seems less about buffing swarms and more about creatures that are already huge.
So I'm looking to replace the card and I'm aware it's best in class, so I'm ready to take a power hit, but I'm looking to minimize it as much as I can. However, are there any cards who do the job even remotely as well? Cathar's Crusade offers both extreme potential for explosiveness (I recently got 200 400/400 pegasi off it thanks to Storm Herd and Doubling Season) and resilience, as the counters stick around even when it's gone.
Some alternatives I've thought of so far:
- Crescendo of War. This could reach similiar heights in terms of value for mana, but I'm very wary of buffing my enemies as well.
- Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest and Maw of the Obzedat. Those can also scale rather well with bigger boards, but only work in sac-based decks.
- Craterhoof Behemoth and Triumph of the Hordes are some of the most obvious candidates, but can only be used once.
Are there any really good candidates I've missed? Let me know if you have any further ideas, I'd love to hear them!