I think the common consensus is that blue doesn't really have enough to offer to mess with the mana base. I realize the fetch/shock base can be used easily enough, but tri color is a bit more difficult on lower mana curves, let alone wanting WW, WG, and/or GG on turn two.
Perfectly put. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. The mana part is doable. You'd give up a ton of consistency and absolutely fold to blood moon but its doable. Its the payoff that isn't there. Geist is down t3 but not aura'd up until t4 which means he probably can't attack. Unstable mutation isn't playable in every matchup. It looks like the greatest aura every printed but test it a few times and I think you'll see what I mean. Always good to think outside the box though. I think the color with the most to offer is red. I still don't think it's worth it.
I don't see the excitement with Renegade Rallier. There are just too many requirements to get value off of it.. on top of it being slow. Spiritdancer gets killed the second it touches the mat. This thing will be no different. "but I can cover him up with an umbra!". ok, so now you need: three lands, one of those lands being a fetch to trigger the ability, and then an ubmra in the graveyard.. maybe in standard but not modern. You can add in the nombo of not being able to attach coronet to him because he isn't already enchanted. No thanks. I'm sure the abzan/company/chord decks will find a nice home for him.
Ok, with dredge, suicide zoo/bloo and infect taking the hit from the bannings and fatal push getting printed to disrupt other aggro decks: Is this the time for bogles to shine?
Also still wondering about peoples thoughts on Renegade Rallier in bogles build...?
Also, I'd unfortunately have to agree with MatsT in regards to the ease to which Bogles can be hated on. I didn't change up my deck for a while when I played Modern at my LGS and one player figured I'd still be running Bogles the next week, so he packed 4 Aura Barbs into his SB. Now that's a kick to the groin; didn't even know that card existed at that point.
That is my biggest problem with hexproof. I have played with it since modern's inception and I love everything about it except that. Once you go to a venue a few times and learn the faces, or the faces learn you rather, it just sucks. I don't even mind the fact that it can be easily hated out. Affinity and Dredge can too. It's the fact that once people know that you have it, they just snap keep hands with a random spellskite or chalice and nothing else. I'm totally fine navigating through those cards post board but when it comes down game one it's no fun. I win so much more on mtgo then in paper. And I get the feeling I'm playng against much more skilled players in competitive leagues then I am in person.
Anyways, I'm glad that I'm not the only player going through this. Hexproof is definitely much slower than it was two years ago but it's still a solid deck if you know its ins and outs. The deck seems easily to pilot (and sometimes it is) but you've really got to know your opponent to up your win percentage. I think the biggest step when playing the deck is learning when you can suit up the arbor post board. Being able to side out bogles and bring in hate is huge. Teeg and Leyline have been great for me lately. We'll see what happens after things settle from the bans. Good luck everyone.
Thoughts on having 2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast for Infect, in the SB?
I think it's way too narrow of a sideboard card. Better to go with spot removal that can hit deaths shadow zoo, spellskite, combo, or Infect. I really think that path and dismember are the best choices right now.
I hear where you're coming from though. Infect can be such a frustrating matchup.
The reason? Dismember is good vs. Infect, Bant Eldrazi, and Thing/Ascension. I have now lost 4 times in the last 4 matches to Thing/Ascension on turn 4 on the play for them. Thing hits twice and double Bolt. I want to do something to stop this, although admittedly none of these were with Bogles. I could see a world where I don't draw removal and Thing bounces my Bogle. That's pretty bad for me.
I have switched to almost the exact same thing (3 path main, 1 in the board, 2 dismember in the board). Dismemeber is really good right now. I have loved it. Those pherexian mana cards really bend the rules. I feel like a removal spell like this caliber should have no place in a deck like this or something like Merfolk.
The sideboard card that I just don't seem to bring in anymore is Teeg. A few years ago it used to be one of my favorite cards. I brought it in all the time and it would really disrupt things. Maybe I just haven't played against enough coco/cord or tron decks lately. When I do bring it in, it either gets pathed or doesnt disrupt enough. I am down to 2 in the sideboard and it would probably be the first card I would cut if I needed to bring something else in to the board.
I have had 3 Keen Sense in the main too lately and have liked it. I go back and forth on this card but it's won be alot of games. Some meta's it's good and others its terrible.
Bogles seems to be in a pretty good spot right now. I am definitely winning more then I am losing. To go back to FoodChains post, I think you definitely need be able to board in a minimum of 6 spot removal cards to compete. Just my opinion. The Eldrazi match up is rough but any deck with post board access to 4 spellskite, 4 EE, and 4 Chalice is going to be close to unwinnable.
So, do you guys prefer 4 spider umbra and 3 hyena or visa Versa? I'm currently playing with 4 hyena and am considering making the switch, to get those couple of extra percentage points against infect and affinity. Aka inkmoth decks.
Also what are our best answers to the Kiki chord matchup?
I like four of both. Seems to be a lot of creature decks around hence a lot of sweepers. It's a tough call if you want to trim to 7. Probably depends on the number of Gryff's in your deck (flying). I know that both daybreak and ethereal give first strike but I love having hyena's in there as well for Snapcasters. Nothing worse than trying to decide whether or not to attack into 2 untapped blue lands. I think 4 spider and 3 hyena is probably the correct split if you play 7.
Teeg is tough for them to deal with. Shuts off Coco and Chord. I usually bring in Teegs and all spot removal. Obviously Cage and Orb are good if they're in your board. Ive been playing with 1 or 2 dismember in the side lately and its been really effective. I would just be sure that all of your removal is effective against spellskite (as always) because they have so many ways to draw into it or cue it up.
Feels like a pretty good time to sneak cage into the sideboard. It does a lot of work against a lot of popular decks.
Anyone tested the Eldrazi Conscription / Arcanum Wings combo now that open the armory exists?? I'm sure it would be slow and clumsy but with open the armory as a tutor, you would only need one copy of Conscription and could easily just armory for something else if you needed. Might be fun to try. I could even see cutting green entirely and just playing bogle, invsible stalker, spiritdancer, ethereal, hyena, daybreak, gryff's, unstable mutation, wings, spirit mantle, curiosity, conscription, armory, path, serum visions?, a counter or two?. Obviously it would lack the punch and resiliency g/w has but I'd bet you'd win some games. Not trying to reinvent the wheel here, just nice to play something new here and there.
Hey guys, I played in the SCG Colorado Modern States tournament yesterday with the following Bogles list, which is a few cards different from what i posted before, a few days ago, in the earlier thread page. Last minute changes, as always, most notably was getting rid of Keen Sense altogether for a Gryff's Boon:
I play tested with some buddies on Saturday night, before the tournament, and we did a mock 8 man tournament which I crushed, so I was in good spirits heading into Sunday. In testing, Boon felt great and even won me a game out of the graveyard. At the tournament, there ended up being 80'ish people, which translates into 7 rounds of swiss and a top 8.
As far as deck selection, I felt Bogles might be a good call in the Colorado meta right now, as it is usually full of Burn, Zoo, Merfolk, Affinity, and other aggro. In an aggro mirror, Coronet is the nut and not a lot of those decks can handle it. Open the Armory gave access to a 5th Coronet, which I felt would be sweet. I tested a bunch of blue based decks, but they all didnt feel right. This format, you can obviously get away with being massively linear, as long as free counter spells remain banned. Situational removal and counter spells just cant beat getting faced.
Round 1 vs Junk Midrange
Right off the bat, a BGx matchup, yuck. I won the roll and was lucky enough to steamroll pretty easily at the start. He didnt get a Lilly or decay to slow me down, and all i saw was a Finks before he scooped. So, i thought he was maybe on the CoCo/Chord Abzan combo, but the next game i did see discard, Siege Rhino, and Lilly. However, i was able to play myself around those threats and took the match. Fighting off a legit Junk deck in round 1 felt great. Win 2-0.
1-0-0
Round 2 vs Jund
Geez, can you ask for a worse round 1 and 2? Discard, Lilly, and Abrupt Decay are easily the worst cards to play against with this deck. Again, though, i won the die roll and was able to sprint to a quick turn 4 win before things got nasty. Winning on the play, every time, is very crucial for this deck. Against BGx, my only sideboard plan is to bring in 4 Leylines and then i shave things like an Umbra, 2 Spiritdancers (who usually die to Decay), and a Spirit Link. On the draw in game two, here, i stick a turn 0 Leyline and turn 1 Bogle, which i was able to get there with. Win 2-0
2-0-0
Round 3 vs UW Control
Well, so much for my meta call. So far, all i've seen is midrange and control, as opposed to the aggro and Burn i was expecting. I lost the die roll here, but ground my way to a game 1 win. He got to draw a lot of cards through Ancestral Vision, but i was heavy on the umbras which thwarted any Supreme Verdicts. I felt like i was in good position to win this match, but the next two games i got Fracturing Gusted. Ugh, that had to only be a 1 of in his board, i would imagine, but he drew it games 2 and 3 and got me good. Loss 1-2.
2-1-0
Round 4 vs Bright to Light Scapeshift
Luckily, a lot of my buddies are on this list and i played against it the night before during our testing. It’s a good matchup for Bogles, unless they get a few Tribe Elder fogs and chain a couple Cryptics together. A Rancor, though, totally ruins their Tribe Elder plan. So, draw Rancor, hope they dont draw a lot of Cryptics and snaps. Game 1 he just got browned on as my deck started getting hot. I played a turn 2 Kor, which i got to untap with, and went then Ethereal, draw, Rancor, draw, and Boon draw to attack for 12 and essentially end the game. See, Bogles has its own Ancestral Vision. Game 2 i hit a double Leyline opener, which doesnt outright make the game unwinnable for Scape, but it delays them a few turns, for sure, which was enough. Win 2-0.
3-1-0
Round 5 vs UW Merfolk
Finally, an aggro match. I was ready for this and ready to see how awesome Cornet would be. I recognized this guy as a writer to that Modern Nexus website, so i wanted to make sure i got him good. Unfortunately, this was the round i decided would be a good idea to smoke a joint in between rounds and I was really feeling it. So, i wasnt very talkative and started to get nervous. Game 1, i curved into Coronet and stomped all over him. That was nice, but in game 2 i got blown out by a Hibernation mid-attack, which was gross. We had a little issue after that because after the Hibernation i had 8 cards in hand and we both didnt notice, so I never discarded. He finally noticed on my next turn when i drew and had 9 cards in hand. Dont smoke pot, kiddos. We called a judge and he just made me discard, which i had plenty of lands to do, so all was good and my opponent ended up winning that game anyway. Game 3, i was freaking out over another possible Hibernation, because there is no way to play around it. I just went fast and Coronet crushed. Win 2-1.
4-1-0
Round 6 vs BtL Scapeshift
This guy's deck was just like round 4, but he, as a person, was saltier then the guy in round 4. No one likes losing to Bogles, i get it, but how is your one card combo deck any fairer than what i am doing? You dont see me get all bitter. I was in a good state of mellow at this point and steamrolled game 1. Game 2 was a little slower, but i was able to start gaining massive life with a Spirit Link and Coronet on a 6/6 Bogle. Gaining 12 a turn quickly got me up to 43 life and far out of Scape range. Regardless, he went for scape with 8 lands, which equals 2 Valakuts, 6 Mountains, and 36 damage. I think he thought his only out was to go through the motions and hope i scoop. He scapes, plays all his lands and says, “All the triggers are pointed at you.” Without evening mentioned how much damage, but i know how math works, so i say, “Ok, I take 36, you done with your turn?” then swung for lethal the next turn. Win 2-0
5-1-0
Round 7 vs Naya Company Hoogland.dec
I was hoping to draw into the top 8 this round, but we had to play. Per the standings, i was #7, my opponent was #8, and there was a #9 who had the same record as we did and got paired down. If we drew and that #9 won, then my opponent would have been leap-frogged and not made top 8. So, i offered a draw, he declined, then got shellacked. The first game, i had a to mull to 6 and kept a hand with two Kor's and a fetch (for a possible Dryad Arbor later). I'm usually ok with these hands post board, when they side out removal, but it was risky this time. Luckily, he pathed my first Kor, but the second Kor stuck and instantly got huge and won me the game. Game 2 was a little grindier. I had a Bogle out, early, and on his turn 3 he casted an Engineered Explosives on 1. Now, this guy was reading my cards all match, not understand how Kor worked or how the Umbra's worked... so i played on his lack of knowledge in my next sequence. He sticks EE on 1 and passes with 2 mana open to blow it up. I think a bit, and play Umbra on my Bogle, he lets it resolve, i play Rancor on my Bogle?, he lets it resolves, i move to attacks and then he triggers the EE, so i got Rancor back to my hand and the Bogle lived. We had to have a judge call on that, but i knew how it worked. He definitely should have popped the EE in response to the Umbra, but he admitted later that the thought the EE would just take care of everything, which I was banking on him getting wrong. Win 2-0.
6-1-0
I got second seed in the top 8.
Top 8 vs BUG Control
This guy cubes with me and my friends sometimes, so i know him well enough. He is a great player and he built a tight Control brew with Goyfs, Lilly, Snaps, Tasigur, Ancestral, Decay... all the good stuff and expensive stuff. Essentially, this is another BGx matchup that i was trying to avoid. Even on the play, he got me game 1 with two Lilly's. I was able to fetch my Arbor once, and kill the first Lilly on the swing back, but the second won the game. Losing on the play felt awful. In game 2, i had a great opener of Bogle and Leyline, so i kept. I was chipping away, but never drew an Umbra, so a Damnation set me back and i had to go all in on an Arbor. The pivotal play in this game was him making a sequence where he thought he could Abrupt Decay my Dryad Arbor. I had lethal swinging in and he tried the Decay, which i told him he couldnt and he lost as hitting any of the enchantments on the Arbor wouldnt have mattered at that point since he was at 2 life. Had he realized that Decay is non-land, he could have played his turn differently and lived. Yay for punts. Game 3 had the most insane luck i've ever experienced with this deck thus far. I hit another Leyline and Bogle in my opener, which was sweet and started to chip away. His Damnations and Snap Damnations really kept ruining my plans, though, and then he stuck a Night of the Souls Betrayal while i had nothing out. I almost scooped here, but i remembered that Kor is still an out and he was at 7 life. We were both in top deck mode when i finally hit a Kor, played her, and passed. He, on his draw, hits a Tasigur and has enough lands to do Tasigur, use Tas ability (i give him a useless Inquisition), use Tas ability again (i give him a Goyf), then he plays the Goyf and is completely tapped out, and passes the turn. I'm about to get buried in card advantage and even though i'm at like 17 life (him still at 7), i know my clock is quick. So, i comment, "Man, i need an epic string of Aura's here." Empty handed, on my draw, i get Hyena Umbra, cast it on my Kor, draw, Ethereal Armor, cast, draw, Rancor, cast, draw, Ethereal, cast, draw, hit a blank. Holy *****, I attack for 21 (20 after the Betrayal -1/-1) trample and win. Never have i had a string off a Kor like that in such a crucial moment. Get wrecked. Win 2-1.
Top 4 vs Merfolk
Different Merfolk player than the one earlier in rounds, but the same matchup that i like playing against. Hopefully, this guy didnt have Hibernation to smash me, though. I was on the play and mulled to 5 game 1 and farted out pretty easily. Again, losing game 1 on the play felt gross, but i remembered that i should be favored, no matter what, in this matchup. Game 2, i mulled to 6, on the play but had a real hand and i was way too fast for him. I got a Coronet, which matters. Game 3, i again had to mull to 6, but again had the nut. Without Hibernation, i dont think Merfolk can deal with a Bogle, Ethereal, Rancor, Coronet hand. Well, actually, not a lot of decks can. Win 2-1
Finals vs Living End
I was hoping to dodge this match-up all day, too. Living End says "Sacrifice your creatures", so even an Umbra cant help against the unfair sweeper. I didnt know what to do, I figured I would get slammed game 1, then hope i draw Rest in Peace both times for games 2 and 3. Not the best odds. At the beginning of the match, my opponent proposed a prize split. Split the packs pool 50/50, winner gets the SCG invite and playmat, and loser gets the medal. 'Loser gets the medal?', i though to myself, thats weird, but whatever, i accepted and kept shuffling, but a second later he just announces that he concedes to me. That dude REALLY just wanted the medal, lol. He told me later that he had invites already. Since I was technically the winner then, the judges made me take a picture with the mat and medal before I gave the medal to the second place guy. So, it looks like i get all the glory, but he gets the medal, which i'm ok with since i'm sure i would have been ROFLstomped by his deck. So yeah, i took this ***** down!
The deck ran hot all day, but i'd also like to think i navigated myself through the field very well. I play a lot of Modern and Legacy and i know the decks throughout each format very well, which really helps in decision making. Against any non-red deck post-board, for example, you can rely on a Kor or Arbor to get there pretty consistently, which makes mulligan'ing easier. Knowing when to double down on certain decisions like this won me the day. Not playing around Lilly's or ambush viper Snapcasters are misplays i see other Bogle players make all the time. I'll never run my Bogle, with just a Rancor on it, into your open two mana, blue mage, thank you very much. I dont dilute my deck with too many sideboard cards each match. I feel like 6 is the upper limit, and out of the 6 you take out, some number needs to be Kors and Paths, so you dont run too few Aura's.
Open the Armory was sweet all day. I used it throughout to get a Rancor, Ethereal, an Umbra, and Coronet, whatever the situation called for. I like it as a one of, though, because it is still important to have enough one drop enchantments for the turn 2 double Aura plays. I could possibly see myself going up to two Gryff's Boon, though. Card was sick, even though i never got to play it from the graveyard during the entire tournament, the extra evasion was awesome.
TLDR: I sent a bunch of mages on one way trips to Browntown and won Colorado States.
Congrats dude. That's absolutely awesome. Nothing is more fun then when this deck is running hot. As for that living end guy... ??? I think I would have played that one out if I was him, haha. Good stuff!!
3-2 at states. Boon and Open the Arms were awesome. I loved them both. The two loses were absolute blow outs to Elves. That's got to be the worst matchup for bogels out there. It felt completely unwinnable. I drew killer hands in a few of the games and still got just run over. 3 out of 4 of the games my opponents just went off turn three. I had no answer. I brought in Teegs in one of the games for coco/cord and suppression field in another. I didn't feel great about either one but I had nothing else. The other 3 games were great. Tron, Ascendancy, and Thopter. All convincing wins.
What's your deck build like?
It's pretty stock. Same thing I've been running for years with the exception of the new cards. I play it a ton so I feel it's pretty streamlined. Leyline, Stony, Teeg, Skite, in the board. I'm going to just call Elves a loss and live with it. I'd have to shake things up too much to make any kind of impact against it.
3-2 at states. Boon and Open the Arms were awesome. I loved them both. The two loses were absolute blow outs to Elves. That's got to be the worst matchup for bogels out there. It felt completely unwinnable. I drew killer hands in a few of the games and still got just run over. 3 out of 4 of the games my opponents just went off turn three. I had no answer. I brought in Teegs in one of the games for coco/cord and suppression field in another. I didn't feel great about either one but I had nothing else. The other 3 games were great. Tron, Ascendancy, and Thopter. All convincing wins.
I spent all weekend testing the new cards against almost every top 1,2 tier decks. I think the new cards are amazing. Both of them. Open the arms was so good so many times. Whoever posted about having two in their hand was absolutely right. That's when the card felt clunky and not great. I most often was casting it turn three and fetching rancor, boon, ethereal, or spirit link so I could cast the spell on the same turn. I fetched daybreak a few times but I found open the arms most efficient at grabbing your missing piece turn 3. Sometimes it's spirit link against burn, sometimes it's rancor or boon against a clogged battlefield. I absolutely love the card. I normally don't play spirit link but it seems pretty important as a fetchable one of to make sure you can grab lifelink if you need it. Open the arms is not an instant so you usually cant play the coronet the turn you fetch it. If your creature only has 1 aura on it, it exposes you a ton to abrupt decay or boarded in enchantment removal. Feels a bit fragile. At least it did to me. In a few of those situations it felt safer to grab an ethereal or rancor, get it down, and grind it out rather than go all in on the daybreak. I was impressed with boon as well. I used open the arms to grab it more than once. I tested enough matches to tell you the cards have serious potential but it was too small a sample size to get a feel for how many of each card or whether or not it's just "wrong or right" to play them. I'll probably play 2 open the arms and 2 boon. It was a blast to have different things to think about. Tons of fun. Id recommend testing them out.
OtA: 2-3 copies
It's good enough to run more than 1 copy, but 4 could give you problems.
PtE: 2-3 copies
I say you can cut 1 from your deck, but only if you replace it with at least 2 Gelid Shackles. Shackles are NOT a 1:1 replacement for PtE.
Gelid Shackles: 1-2, with possibly more in sideboard.
Spirit Link: 0-1
Spirit Mantle: 1-2
I'm leaning strongly toward just one copy, but I could understand having a backup.
Noble Hierarch: not a bad idea, but I still think that OtA offsets some part of Silhana's speed disadvantage. It is slow as always, but OtA makes it slightly more likely to overcome the loss of tempo with power.
And I say again - especially if you choose to use 3 copies of OtA - you will eventually have a game that goes wrong for both sides. You'll topdeck OtA when you only have an unenchanted Scout on the board and have a hard decision to make about what aura to tutor. Coronet would be risky, hoping to topdeck another aura so you can cast it. The 1 cmc umbras lack power, and Ethereal Armor has the "still need a second aura" problem.
There ought to be a solution, but no obvious ones stand out.
A single copy of Unflinching Courage isn't bad, but it can feel underwhelming in the mid-game.
Boar Umbra gives an additional point of power and protects the creature, but is otherwise uninspiring.
Maybe a few copies of Gryff's Boon is a better choice? The flashback ability might solve this problem. But then you need more than one copy of this card, so what do you cut to make room?
In your both side goes wrong situation, I would really love to have spectral flight, but sadly we doesn't have blue. Having +2/+2 flying never goes wrong in any situation. If only gryff's boon give +1/+1 and not +1/+0, that missing toughness boost is the reason I don't really want to play it especially if opponent have a flash back lingering soul.
I don't understand the reason why everyone is against of having 3-4 copy of spirit mantle, a turn 2 mantle on a turn 1 bogle result in a 2/2 hexproof unblockable bogle isn't bad IMO.
I personally am not against multiple copies of Spirit Mantle at all. I think the upside to Gryff's Boon is that you get the same power boost, an element of evasion, AND are able to cast a second aura on T2. Maybe I'm thinking of this the wrong way. Lingering Souls is definitely a potential deterrent. I just picture casting Boon and then following it up with rancor/ethereal/umbra on the same turn and really gaining an edge. Seems like a fast clock is important in so many matchups. I can see where people think a spirit mantle on turn 2 is a little slow. Not saying I don't like spirit mantle because I do. I just think Boon might be a decent replacement in spots.
If we go for the OtA route, should we increase our number of hexproof creature like silhana ledgewalker since we should be able to reduce the number of aura with 4 OtA to search for the aura we need? I'm thinking of going for 16 creature not including dryad arbor, running 12 hexproof creature and 4 kor Spiritdancer, and with more creature the deck might have a more favorable match up against BGx decks with their Liliana..
I don't think the deck wants to be playing 17 creatures. I also don't think you want to see two OtA's in your opening hand. If the new card does work, I don't think it changes much about the deck. Maybe adds shackles as a one of and spirit link, maybe keen sense as a one of if you didn't already have it in there. I think the list you posted is far too slow. You'll be cuing up auras while infect/living end/cord ends the game turn 4. Just my opinion. I do think OtA is a playable card and will be fun to try but I don't think we'll have to build the whole thing around it.
To me shackles stops a problem that we don't have. Non combo creature decks are usually the easiest matchups. The path is in there mainly to stop combo or infect. Without twin, it seems much less necessary then it was. The influx in infect once the meta settles will probably negate that though. Shackles is a much worse card in most situations. Sorcery speed. You can only bust up a combo that you see potentially happening on the next turn. Even then the sequencing and picking the right target could be tough against some decks (cord). It does stop Spellskite which is excellent. It does nothing against manlands (affinity,infect).
I think Path is a way better card. It's just a matter of whether or not the tutor-ability of the Shackles makes up for its short comings. My guess is no. Again, it just seems too cute to me. Who knows.
I've made the "cuteness" argument myself. You're absolutely right. But this deck always has room for extra stuff that doesn't directly advance your gameplan.
The perfect Bogle deck would be something like 10 bogles, 10 spider umbras, 14 ethereal armor and 6 coronets. The numbers may be a little bit off but it would be in that ballpark.
Since the rules of magic don't allow that, we fill the deck with other things, and any of those other things could conceivably be dismissed as being too cute.
But OtA is perhaps the least cute option of all. It isn't fast but it does give us better odds of getting the core auras.
I agree with you completely. I might give that 14 ethereal armor deck a try at the next tourney!! haha. I love it. Just have to swerve the deck checks and dealing myself 6 copies in my opening hand
The ability to fetch the aura you want seems really handy. For me, that alone will have to be good enough for it to crack the 60. I think where it got cute for me was tutoring up the removal. I definitely think it could work for Spellskite. Seems pretty limited beyond that.
Again, at least we have something to talk about now other than the spirit mantle/unflinching courage split!!
Perfectly put. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. The mana part is doable. You'd give up a ton of consistency and absolutely fold to blood moon but its doable. Its the payoff that isn't there. Geist is down t3 but not aura'd up until t4 which means he probably can't attack. Unstable mutation isn't playable in every matchup. It looks like the greatest aura every printed but test it a few times and I think you'll see what I mean. Always good to think outside the box though. I think the color with the most to offer is red. I still don't think it's worth it.
I don't see the excitement with Renegade Rallier. There are just too many requirements to get value off of it.. on top of it being slow. Spiritdancer gets killed the second it touches the mat. This thing will be no different. "but I can cover him up with an umbra!". ok, so now you need: three lands, one of those lands being a fetch to trigger the ability, and then an ubmra in the graveyard.. maybe in standard but not modern. You can add in the nombo of not being able to attach coronet to him because he isn't already enchanted. No thanks. I'm sure the abzan/company/chord decks will find a nice home for him.
That is my biggest problem with hexproof. I have played with it since modern's inception and I love everything about it except that. Once you go to a venue a few times and learn the faces, or the faces learn you rather, it just sucks. I don't even mind the fact that it can be easily hated out. Affinity and Dredge can too. It's the fact that once people know that you have it, they just snap keep hands with a random spellskite or chalice and nothing else. I'm totally fine navigating through those cards post board but when it comes down game one it's no fun. I win so much more on mtgo then in paper. And I get the feeling I'm playng against much more skilled players in competitive leagues then I am in person.
Anyways, I'm glad that I'm not the only player going through this. Hexproof is definitely much slower than it was two years ago but it's still a solid deck if you know its ins and outs. The deck seems easily to pilot (and sometimes it is) but you've really got to know your opponent to up your win percentage. I think the biggest step when playing the deck is learning when you can suit up the arbor post board. Being able to side out bogles and bring in hate is huge. Teeg and Leyline have been great for me lately. We'll see what happens after things settle from the bans. Good luck everyone.
I think it's way too narrow of a sideboard card. Better to go with spot removal that can hit deaths shadow zoo, spellskite, combo, or Infect. I really think that path and dismember are the best choices right now.
I hear where you're coming from though. Infect can be such a frustrating matchup.
I have switched to almost the exact same thing (3 path main, 1 in the board, 2 dismember in the board). Dismemeber is really good right now. I have loved it. Those pherexian mana cards really bend the rules. I feel like a removal spell like this caliber should have no place in a deck like this or something like Merfolk.
The sideboard card that I just don't seem to bring in anymore is Teeg. A few years ago it used to be one of my favorite cards. I brought it in all the time and it would really disrupt things. Maybe I just haven't played against enough coco/cord or tron decks lately. When I do bring it in, it either gets pathed or doesnt disrupt enough. I am down to 2 in the sideboard and it would probably be the first card I would cut if I needed to bring something else in to the board.
I have had 3 Keen Sense in the main too lately and have liked it. I go back and forth on this card but it's won be alot of games. Some meta's it's good and others its terrible.
Bogles seems to be in a pretty good spot right now. I am definitely winning more then I am losing. To go back to FoodChains post, I think you definitely need be able to board in a minimum of 6 spot removal cards to compete. Just my opinion. The Eldrazi match up is rough but any deck with post board access to 4 spellskite, 4 EE, and 4 Chalice is going to be close to unwinnable.
I like four of both. Seems to be a lot of creature decks around hence a lot of sweepers. It's a tough call if you want to trim to 7. Probably depends on the number of Gryff's in your deck (flying). I know that both daybreak and ethereal give first strike but I love having hyena's in there as well for Snapcasters. Nothing worse than trying to decide whether or not to attack into 2 untapped blue lands. I think 4 spider and 3 hyena is probably the correct split if you play 7.
Teeg is tough for them to deal with. Shuts off Coco and Chord. I usually bring in Teegs and all spot removal. Obviously Cage and Orb are good if they're in your board. Ive been playing with 1 or 2 dismember in the side lately and its been really effective. I would just be sure that all of your removal is effective against spellskite (as always) because they have so many ways to draw into it or cue it up.
Feels like a pretty good time to sneak cage into the sideboard. It does a lot of work against a lot of popular decks.
Congrats dude. That's absolutely awesome. Nothing is more fun then when this deck is running hot. As for that living end guy... ??? I think I would have played that one out if I was him, haha. Good stuff!!
It's pretty stock. Same thing I've been running for years with the exception of the new cards. I play it a ton so I feel it's pretty streamlined. Leyline, Stony, Teeg, Skite, in the board. I'm going to just call Elves a loss and live with it. I'd have to shake things up too much to make any kind of impact against it.
I spent all weekend testing the new cards against almost every top 1,2 tier decks. I think the new cards are amazing. Both of them. Open the arms was so good so many times. Whoever posted about having two in their hand was absolutely right. That's when the card felt clunky and not great. I most often was casting it turn three and fetching rancor, boon, ethereal, or spirit link so I could cast the spell on the same turn. I fetched daybreak a few times but I found open the arms most efficient at grabbing your missing piece turn 3. Sometimes it's spirit link against burn, sometimes it's rancor or boon against a clogged battlefield. I absolutely love the card. I normally don't play spirit link but it seems pretty important as a fetchable one of to make sure you can grab lifelink if you need it. Open the arms is not an instant so you usually cant play the coronet the turn you fetch it. If your creature only has 1 aura on it, it exposes you a ton to abrupt decay or boarded in enchantment removal. Feels a bit fragile. At least it did to me. In a few of those situations it felt safer to grab an ethereal or rancor, get it down, and grind it out rather than go all in on the daybreak. I was impressed with boon as well. I used open the arms to grab it more than once. I tested enough matches to tell you the cards have serious potential but it was too small a sample size to get a feel for how many of each card or whether or not it's just "wrong or right" to play them. I'll probably play 2 open the arms and 2 boon. It was a blast to have different things to think about. Tons of fun. Id recommend testing them out.
I personally am not against multiple copies of Spirit Mantle at all. I think the upside to Gryff's Boon is that you get the same power boost, an element of evasion, AND are able to cast a second aura on T2. Maybe I'm thinking of this the wrong way. Lingering Souls is definitely a potential deterrent. I just picture casting Boon and then following it up with rancor/ethereal/umbra on the same turn and really gaining an edge. Seems like a fast clock is important in so many matchups. I can see where people think a spirit mantle on turn 2 is a little slow. Not saying I don't like spirit mantle because I do. I just think Boon might be a decent replacement in spots.
I don't think the deck wants to be playing 17 creatures. I also don't think you want to see two OtA's in your opening hand. If the new card does work, I don't think it changes much about the deck. Maybe adds shackles as a one of and spirit link, maybe keen sense as a one of if you didn't already have it in there. I think the list you posted is far too slow. You'll be cuing up auras while infect/living end/cord ends the game turn 4. Just my opinion. I do think OtA is a playable card and will be fun to try but I don't think we'll have to build the whole thing around it.
I agree with you completely. I might give that 14 ethereal armor deck a try at the next tourney!! haha. I love it. Just have to swerve the deck checks and dealing myself 6 copies in my opening hand
The ability to fetch the aura you want seems really handy. For me, that alone will have to be good enough for it to crack the 60. I think where it got cute for me was tutoring up the removal. I definitely think it could work for Spellskite. Seems pretty limited beyond that.
Again, at least we have something to talk about now other than the spirit mantle/unflinching courage split!!