3 long and grindy games. I get him game 1, in game 2 he Traverses for Bojuka Bog which gets me pretty hard, and game 3 I just couldn't shoot down Tasigur + Lingering Souls.
Round 2 vs. Homebrew Elves
A true homebrew. All the mana producing elves (plus Priest of Titania!), Joraga Treespeaker, Coat of Arms, Harmonize, Rancor, and a special surprise for later. Game 1 I discard and kill lots of stuff, but Harmonize and Lead the Stampede for 5 get him back in it, and I get run over. Game 2 I start with discard, and see Priest of Titania... how interesting. I call a judge, and it turns into a Snow-Covered Forest, and we proceed. Maelstrom Pulse and Anger of the Gods do lots of work, but my first Seismic Assault gets Naturalized. I spend several turns digging with Loam + 2 cycling lands, eventually milling over all 3 remaining Assaults (boourns), but soon after that find Worm Harvest, and my opponent gets killed by 15 Worms. Game 3 is fairly back and forth. I kill and discard his stuff, but I draw all 4 Loams, and am starting to whiff on action again. He gets to six Forests and he slams... Scuttling Doom Engine. I draw Seismic Assault the next turn, but it's too late.
Round 3 vs. R/G 8-whack
Game 1 he's stuck on 1 land while I do all my cool stuff. Discard into Bob into Seismic, and he's dead. Game 2 I get what might be the fastest goldfish possible. Turn 1 discard, turn 2 Loam back 2 lands, turn 3 Seismic Assault, turn 4 Shoot for 2, Loam back some lands, shoot for 10, Shadow, shoot for 10 again to bring the grand total to 22 damage to the face. Seismic Assault is a hell of a card sometimes.
Round 4 vs. Jeskai Control/Burn
Game 1 I go Discard, Bob, Seismic, Loam, and he scoops. Game 2 is a lot more grindy, and I eventually start spamming Worm Harvest, which eats counterspells for 2 turns before making 5 tokens. I attack, but I'm at 9. He Lavamancers my face, Electrolyzes me, then on his turn he Helix + Lavamancers again and I'm dead. I take out the Nature's Claims for more removal. I had anticipated Rest in Peace, because I'm a graveyard deck and he's playing white, but after Lavamancers I'm certain there are no RIPs. I get some discard, and Slaughter Games his Cryptics while I know he has 1 in hand, but he keeps bolting me, and eventually I die to Snapcaster + Colonade.
A pretty dismal 1/3 showing for tonight. I did get to live the "22 your face" on turn 4 dream, but a couple sloppy plays and a horrendous draw in a game 3 contributed to my crap record.
Changes I would make include -1 Shadow, -2 Raven's Crime, +2 Faithless, +1 Abrupt Decay. Raven's Crime will go to the board, and Shadow will be shaved because I tend to draw it where it won't matter very often. More dig in the main deck should help get to Assault Loam quicker. Cycling lands definitely gave this deck a boost, but Shadows might just be too cute. I might end up cutting the remaining 2 for more removal or more dig. Vessel of Nascency was recommended by someone in this thread, and the fact that it looks at 4 cards while filling the yard for only 3 mana (which can be split on turns 1 and 2) is pretty neat. I want to add another cycling land, but I'm not sure what to cut. Always coming in tapped can really hamper early game development. I had lots of Discard, Bob, Seismic sequences, and tapped lands don't let you do that.
I think I'm gonna put the deck down for a little while, because I like to play lots of different stuff, and I'm loaning the Catacombs to a buddy who's going to Vegas. I will certainly come back to this deck though, it's a blast!
I played 2 more rounds this weekend, couldn't finish the tournament but left at 2/0.
Round 1 vs Merfolk.
I was concerned about Spreading Seas, which he did have 4 of, but this match seems very favorable. If we draw Seismic Assault, our deck is playing about 40 removal spells. Cycling lands came in very handy post board to instant speed Dredge Loam in response to Relic pop. After casting Seismic, it felt like I couldn't lose. Win 2/0.
Round 2 vs Esper Death's Shadow.
I keep 5 land, Seismic, Abrupt Decay, thinking he would be on infect because he plays that a lot. My cards get discarded, but Cycling Lands + Faithless + Shadow of the Grave let me dig deep. A couple removal spells along the way let me survive to find Seismic and I 14 him. Game 2 I make a huge mistake that nearly costs me the game. After trading discard spells, I begin my turn 3 with Seismic Loam in hand, Blood Crypt and Stomping Ground in play, and Blood Crypt and Verdant Catacombs in hand. I play Verdant, fetch... Can't find an untapped red source. Of course he rips Thoughtseize and discards my Seismic, and I reveal my huge blunder. I got greedy, trying to put more lands in the yard, when I should have just played Seismic. Anywho, the game goes long with my Bob drawing me removal for his guys, and eventually Worm Harvest bails me out of my punt. Win 2/0 despite my egregious error. I have since burned the exact 26 lands I run into my memory.
I think I'll be going down to 2 Shadow of the Grave, and I might move Raven's Crime to the board. Shadow is very strong in the right place, but it's often not very good. Raven's Crime is extremely good in long control games, but also often dead. This will leave more room for 2 more Faithless Looting and maybe a maindeck Pulse or Dread Bore.
Having lots of fun with this deck, especially when I burst down Death's Shadow players. More updates to come on Wednesday.
Of note, I haven't played against any haymaker sideboard cards. Relic is bad, but not game over. I'm more concerned about beating RIP and Leyline of Sanctity. I'm playing 2 Nature's Claim in the board, and 1-2 Pulses. I hope it's enough.
That's the only time Shadow of the Grave came in handy.
Theoretically it can be "Thoughtseize Insurance" though. They target you with discard, and if you have something important, Shadow can get it back. It can also be handy on a late game turn where you Faithless and/or cycle some lands, then Shadow them back.
It's possible the card is just too cute, but I'm going to play it for a few more rounds before I make a judgment on it.
I played @killer_manfred's list tonight, with 2 Faithless Lootings instead of 2 Vessel of Nascency. It's basically Jund Assault Loam, with 4 Dark Confidant in the main as the only creatures.
3 round FNM, went as follows.
Round 1 vs. B/g 8 Rack
Game 1: A buddy of mine who plays 8 rack on occasion decided to add green for Loam (Raven's Crime value) and Abrupt Decay. He wins the roll, and plays a Rack effect on turn 1. I Raven's Crime him, which in retrospect was a mistake, but he was on the mulligan and I thought there was a chance I could ruin his hand before he ruined mine. Bob #1 gets Liliana Edicted, but #2 sticks around to get a card and kill Liliana before being Fatal Pushed. He runs out of cards, and finds a second Rack effect, so I have to start keeping cards in hand. I find a Loam to help fill the hand to get me out of Rack range, and Bob #3 shows up to trade with a Mutavault. He keeps drawing discard, but Loam saves me from Racks until I'm able to find Seismic Assault and win.
Game 2: He starts on Forest, Rack. I start with Faithless, find a Confidant which draws an Abrupt Decay. His draw is slow, and I find a second Confidant on turn 4 or 5. I Inquisition him before casting Bob, see 2 Decays, take 1 and then the other, play Bob. It draws a card or 2 dies, he plays Gurmag Angler. I take 5 a couple times before finding my sideboard Maelstrom Pulse to kill it, and again a 3rd Bob which again trades with Mutavault. On the turn before I will die to 2 Racks, I draw Seismic Assault. I cycle a land, Dredge Loam, Loam up some lands, play Sesimic. He doesn't play anything, and says go at 19 life. I dredge Loam, 12 him, Shadow of the Grave to 12 him again.
Round 2 vs. Esper Mentor Control
Game 1: Another buddy of mine, and the games he tells me this list went 9/0 on day 1 of GP Kobe. This is NOT the Painful Truths/Glory-Bound list that top 8'd, but a different sweet Japanese Esper brew. Anywho, I win the roll, and my opening hand has 3 lands, 3 Bobs, and a Faithless Looting. Despite seeing more than 30 cards, I never see a Seismic Assault, and I die to Lingering Souls/Sorin/Smuggler's Copter.
Game 2: A good opener with discard, land, Loam, and Faithless. I Anger of the Gods on my turn 5 to kill 2 Lingering Souls, Mentor, and Jace. He rebuilds, but I've found Seismic Loam and have 6 shots this turn. I kill his 2 tokens, his flipped Jace (which was threatening to flashback Celestial Purge), and take his Sorin down to 1 so it can't make a token to crew a lethal Smuggler's Copter. He topdeck's Tasigur, and Copter kills me.
Game 3: Even though I lost 2/0, I felt like I was pretty close to winning both games. He disagrees, and humors me to a 3rd game for funsies. I go Bob, Seismic, cast Life from the Loam, and there is no way he can win. Faith in the deck restored !!
Round 3 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow
Game 1: He has only 1 discard spell, and 1 Death's Shadow which eats a Fatal Push. I'm able to assemble Seismic Loam, and kill him. Obvious note: you really want to 1-shot Death's Shadow players. Stubborn Denial can catch a Loam, and you really don't want to pump their Shadow until it's time to win the game.
Game 2: I open with Black Cleave Cliffs, Graven Cairns, Sesmic, Faithless, Terminate and 2x Abrupt Decay. I keep despite not having green, as I think this hand has a reasonable chance at surviving until I get green. He discards my Faithless Looting to attempt to stall me off green. I draw another Seismic, pass, he Thought Scours and Serum Visions. I draw Bob and slam it on turn 2. Of course it dies, but when he goes to discard me again, he sees 2 Seismics, so he takes the Terminate. I draw a land, slam Seismic Assault. From here, we both stall pretty hard. I'm holding my second Seismic, 2 Decays, and every land I draw, waiting to find Loam to 1-shot him. Eventually he Kolaghan's me, and I discard the Seismic. I keep drawing lands and inconsequential spells, and he durdles around with Snapcasters which I shoot before they can attack. After several turns he plays a Shadow, I Decay it, and I finally rip Loam. I know he has at least 1 Stubborn Denial in hand, but I have 4 mana which could pay for 2 Denials, and I shoot him for 12 winning the match.
So I go 2/1, pretty happy with the result. I felt like I could have easily beat the Esper player had it worked out a little differently, but on the other hand I feel like I got pretty lucky against Grixis Shadow. The mainboard felt very good. Shadow of the Grave didn't do a lot (I never got to use it to "counter" a discard spell), but the one time I did use, it won the game on the spot. The cycling lands felt very good, and I want at least 1 more in the deck. This deck often just needs to find Loam or Seismic as soon as possible, and the cycling lands add a little bit of digging while also being a good way to save a Loam from the yard. If they try to Spellbomb/Surgical/Scooze with only 1 mana, you can Dredge at instant speed with is pretty sweet.
I'm gonna start playing this deck again, using Killer_Manfred's list as a starting point.
@Killer_Manfred as for your question about sideboards, I used to play this deck long ago, and Tron was a big problem. I'll be including at least 4 things that kill lands in the board, probably starting with 4 Fulminator Mage, and maybe a Crumble to Dust or 2. Yard hate can also be a problem, so I'll be including the 3rd and 4th Abrupt Decays to deal with Rest in Peace or force them to crack an artifact hate piece. Ancient Grudge is another easy include, as it can hit all of Affinity, some Tron pieces, and is a card that operates from the graveyard.
I don't own any Vessel of Nascency or cycling lands, so I'll be using Faithless Looting and some dual lands/man lands in their place. While coming into play tapped definitely sucks, Raging Ravine (and even Lava Claw Reaches) can really help when Seismic Assault won't get the job done for whatever reason.
Played this list I posted a couple comments above, but cut the Hero's Downfall and a Nihil Spellbomb for 2 Lost Legacy.
Round 1 vs. Mardu Cards
Same guy I played on Wednesday, appeared to be the same list. Things went much better for me this time. I drew multiple Gravecrawlers in both games, and got aggressive quickly. Crawlers ate through Lingering Souls both games, which was pretty great. In game 2, I started on Crawler, then Thoughtseize. I saw 2 pyroclasms, and took 1 of them. On the next turn I Wrench Minded his last 2 cards, which were the other Pyroclasm and a Kolaghan's Command. I won 2/0.
Round 2 vs. Boggles
I Scullered him on turn 2, and saw 2 Gryff's Boon, which is a card I haven't seen yet. I thought it was a budget alternative, but after checking some sites, it looks like the deck is actually using this card. Anywho, I also saw 2 Paths, so I take one of those. He's stuck on 2 Forests, and gets a very slow start with 3 naked boggles for a few turns, while I curve out and get him. Game 2 is closer to a real game, where he gets 3 boggles, 2 with Spirit Mantle and 1 with Magemark. Even so, Relentless Dead times 2 is able to attack with Menace, and recur when blocked, and I play 3 Messengers to chip through for the win.
Round 3 vs. Bant Eldrazi
He stumbles on mana while I curve out with recursive threats. Game 2 he leads on Hierarch, I push it, he sticks Rest in Peace. I play a 1 drop, and Thoughtseize him, seeing lands, 6 mana Elspeth, another RIP, and Path. He only draws 1 creature for several turns, and I'm able to attack with a bunch of idiots for the win.
Round 4 vs. Jeskai Nahiri
I get a fairly poor draw on game 1. In the whole game I see 2 creature cards, and resolve 3 spells, on turn 9 I draw yet another land, and scoop. Game 2 I made a pretty savage error. He's mana screwed with Lighthouse, Island, Sacred Foundry as his lands, with 2x Nahiri and a Cryptic in his hand. I boarded in Lost Legacy to try to get his Anger of the Gods, but I see an opportunity to get both Nahiri's out of his hand. That's the right play with almost every Cranial effect ever printed... but not so with Lost Legacy. I shoulda read the damn card, because I name Nahiri, he draws 2 cards, gets unmanascrewed, and I end up losing. I did get a fairly bad draw in game 2, seeing only 4 creatures in about 8 or 9 turns, but I made a huge mistake and so I should have lost despite that. After the game, I rip my Lost Legacy cards into pieces, to ensure I will never again make the mistake of using that card in a deck.
- - -
Very happy with this tune, although I'm not sure I like it more than the Vial build. This deck continues to impress me. I thought it would be tier 2.5 for-the-lulz jank, but it doesn't actually feel that bad. I'm not saying it's a great deck, and my sample size is small, but it is tons of fun, and it feels very strong when the game goes long and you're able keep bringing back your clock.
I have a spicy card coming in the mail, so I'll probably take a break from Zombies for at least a few days, but I'll be back to it shortly.
I played 4 games against Jeskai Nahiri, going 2/0 in preboard games and 1/1 postboard. The games went surprisingly well. I figured all the removal spells would be a problem, but I was fortunate to draw many of the 12 reanimating creatures fairly often. Collective Brutality and Liliana were very strong, as expected. Those cards are naturally strong against control decks, but having 8 cards that pull themselves out of the yard make them even better.
Postboard Anger of the Gods came out to obliterate me. When I was building this tune of the deck, I considered including Lost Legacy in the board so that I'd have a way to deal with that card. Lost Legacy can also be extremely strong against some other decks, naming Living End, Grapeshot, Scapeshift, and probably some other big deal cards.
I'll probably find room for a couple of those when I take the deck out again, and leave this mainboard unchanged to get some actual experience with it.
I intend to try a handful of variations on the deck. I had 4 Messengers sitting in the maybe pile the whole time, but I ended up setting on the list above for the first outing. There were a number of things that led to the above build.
First, I just had to see for myself how nuts I could go with Relentless. Relentless asks for lots of available mana and a low curve to get the most out of his reanimation ability.
Second, I had to test Miasmic Mummy. In a vacuum his ability isn't great, but it gets much better when you strip their hand with other discard first (because they have fewer cards to select from).
Now that I've got those 2 boxes checked, I'm eager to try other stuff, like no Vial, Messenger, Colossus, Bloodghast, etc. Some number of Path and Brutality will also make the next maindeck. It's a good problem to have when there are so many cool cards to tinker with
We trade games 1 and 2. Game 3 this deck really got to do its thing. Aether Vial plus 2 Relentless Dead allowed me to block Goyfs for days, while recurring Miasmic Mummy and dead 1 drops. With an active Vial plus 3 lands, it's extremely hard to break through Relentless Deads, even when facing removal spells. Gravecrawlers and Dread Wanderers get to suicide rush through his blockers, and I take game 3. I boarded out 4 Thoughtseize, and brought in 2 Nihil Spellbombs and 2 Surgicals. Death's Shadow is threat light, so Surgical on any threat is powerful, and they use their graveyard a lot.
Round 2 - Mardu Cards
His deck is full of Bolts, Paths, Helixes, Pyromancers, Lingering Souls, and Planeswalkers. A nearly unending army of tokens buys him a lot of turns, while the burn spells usually go to my face. Sorin comes down to seal game 1. Game 2 is more of the same, but now he has Pyroclasms, and I lose again.
Round 3 - Grixis Control
Game 1 I get a good start with Vial on turn 1, start churning out threats and drawing with Cryptbreaker. Grixis's targeted removal and lack of early defense doesn't line up well against my recursive threats, though Kolaghan's Command is pretty brutal against Sculler and Vial. I take grindy game 1 off recurring dudes plus Wayward Servant. Out come 4 Fatal Pushes, in come 1 Spellbomb, 2 Surgicals, and 1 Hero's Downfall. Game 2 starts well for me, but then Tasigur shows up. Bolt Snap Bolt finishes me off.
Game 3 I lead with Cryptbreaker, he plays Serum Visions (top top). On turn 2 I Sculler and see 3 removal spells, Snapcaster, a second Serum Visions and land. I Sculler the Snapcaster, and Surgical his Visions, which gets a card out of his hand, and forces him to shuffle away the Fatal Push and land he left on top. The game goes long, he gets Tasigur, but by then I've assembled an army of idiots who can suicide past him, with Servant to make even the blocked idiots get him for 1 each turn, and I win.
Round 4 - R/G Titan Shift
I feel pretty good knowing that I have Surgical and Shadow in the board, but I find out that the deck plays Anger of the Gods main, and I get 5 for 1'd. At that point he's already at 3, and I topdeck a Dread Wanderer that is able to attack twice, and somehow I win. In come 2 Surgicals and 4 Shadow of Doubt, out go 4 Fatal Push and 2 Aether Vial. While I really like Vial, I need to maintain threat density and bring in anything that can stop him from Valakuting me for a million. Game 2 I get a decent curve, but he Scapeshifts for 8, and deals me 36 damage. Game 3 I have a good curve plus a Shadow of Doubt. I mount a decent offense, but after seeing his hand a couple times with Sculler and Thoughtseize, I know I'm gonna have to burn the Shadow of Doubt when he casts Primeval Titan. I draw a few more cards, but am unable to find another Shadow, and I get destroyed.
- - - - -
So I ended up 2/2 with my very rough first draft of the deck. I had fun with the deck, and got to ride the Relentless Dead Value Train a few times which was reaaaally cool. As others have said elsewhere, the deck thrives against midrange decks, where you have time to reanimate your whole deck turn after turn and slowly chip away while you look for a lethal critical mass. Mardu felt like a pretty terrible match up, which I'm fine with. I don't think it's really possible to build this thing in a way that doesn't fold to infinite removal + pyroclasm + Planeswalkers + Lingering Souls. Titan Shift seems like a bad match up too, with the maindeck Angers.
Vial + Relentless got some insane value, and while Vial isn't great everywhere, the mana it frees up allowed for a truly awesome grind plan.
I'll be tuning this deck, and should have another tournament or 2 by the end of this coming weekend.
I think the real question regarding vial is stuff you need to cut for it. Because yes in a vacuum aether vial is great, but you need to max out on creatures, cutting interaction. You'd have to go 4 removal, 4 discard, 4 vial and 26-ish creatures, with 22-ish lands. Is the trade-off worth it? Maybe.
I'd love to read more reports on people testing different versions before i dive back in this deck.
I agree completely. Vial puts a huge squeeze on your non-creature spells. My first go will be with 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Push, 4 Vial, and the rest creatures and lands. Sadly, that leaves no room for Liliana, but I expect the freed up mana will be useful for all the activated ability costs. I'll report back with my findings.
Ok, you're right. Trespasser's Curse is a great card, Vial is awful, Relentless Dead comes into play tapped, and you can counter creatures that are Vialed in.
Playing an extra creature each turn, at instant speed (during their draw, after they attack, or simply their EoT), uncounterable, without paying it's mana cost is why I like Vial.
I'll let you in on a big secret: you Vial on turn 1. Modern doesn't usually kill on turns 1 or 2, so you don't have to Thoughtseize. Leave it on whatever your deck's curve is. For a Modern Zombie deck, that will often be 2, but you adjust to the circumstances and the hand you draw.
Vial has proven itself for many years, and this particular deck is well suited to ignore it's biggest drawback: topdecking it late game. In the past, decks have just accepted that as a fair trade for the mana it provides in the early game. But THIS deck can cash in late game Vials with Cryptbreaker, Brutality, or even Liliana OTV.
4 Seismic Assault
3 Fatal Push
3 Shadow of the Grave
3 Terminate
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Life from the Loam
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Faithless Looting
2 Raven's Crime
1 Collective Brutality
1 Worm Harvest
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Graven Cairns
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Canyon Slough
1 Sheltered Thicket
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Nature's Claim
2 Nihil Spellbom
1 Collective Brutality
1 Pithing Neelde
1 Slaughter Games
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
Round 1 vs. Abzan Traverse
3 long and grindy games. I get him game 1, in game 2 he Traverses for Bojuka Bog which gets me pretty hard, and game 3 I just couldn't shoot down Tasigur + Lingering Souls.
Round 2 vs. Homebrew Elves
A true homebrew. All the mana producing elves (plus Priest of Titania!), Joraga Treespeaker, Coat of Arms, Harmonize, Rancor, and a special surprise for later. Game 1 I discard and kill lots of stuff, but Harmonize and Lead the Stampede for 5 get him back in it, and I get run over. Game 2 I start with discard, and see Priest of Titania... how interesting. I call a judge, and it turns into a Snow-Covered Forest, and we proceed. Maelstrom Pulse and Anger of the Gods do lots of work, but my first Seismic Assault gets Naturalized. I spend several turns digging with Loam + 2 cycling lands, eventually milling over all 3 remaining Assaults (boourns), but soon after that find Worm Harvest, and my opponent gets killed by 15 Worms. Game 3 is fairly back and forth. I kill and discard his stuff, but I draw all 4 Loams, and am starting to whiff on action again. He gets to six Forests and he slams... Scuttling Doom Engine. I draw Seismic Assault the next turn, but it's too late.
Round 3 vs. R/G 8-whack
Game 1 he's stuck on 1 land while I do all my cool stuff. Discard into Bob into Seismic, and he's dead. Game 2 I get what might be the fastest goldfish possible. Turn 1 discard, turn 2 Loam back 2 lands, turn 3 Seismic Assault, turn 4 Shoot for 2, Loam back some lands, shoot for 10, Shadow, shoot for 10 again to bring the grand total to 22 damage to the face. Seismic Assault is a hell of a card sometimes.
Round 4 vs. Jeskai Control/Burn
Game 1 I go Discard, Bob, Seismic, Loam, and he scoops. Game 2 is a lot more grindy, and I eventually start spamming Worm Harvest, which eats counterspells for 2 turns before making 5 tokens. I attack, but I'm at 9. He Lavamancers my face, Electrolyzes me, then on his turn he Helix + Lavamancers again and I'm dead. I take out the Nature's Claims for more removal. I had anticipated Rest in Peace, because I'm a graveyard deck and he's playing white, but after Lavamancers I'm certain there are no RIPs. I get some discard, and Slaughter Games his Cryptics while I know he has 1 in hand, but he keeps bolting me, and eventually I die to Snapcaster + Colonade.
A pretty dismal 1/3 showing for tonight. I did get to live the "22 your face" on turn 4 dream, but a couple sloppy plays and a horrendous draw in a game 3 contributed to my crap record.
Changes I would make include -1 Shadow, -2 Raven's Crime, +2 Faithless, +1 Abrupt Decay. Raven's Crime will go to the board, and Shadow will be shaved because I tend to draw it where it won't matter very often. More dig in the main deck should help get to Assault Loam quicker. Cycling lands definitely gave this deck a boost, but Shadows might just be too cute. I might end up cutting the remaining 2 for more removal or more dig. Vessel of Nascency was recommended by someone in this thread, and the fact that it looks at 4 cards while filling the yard for only 3 mana (which can be split on turns 1 and 2) is pretty neat. I want to add another cycling land, but I'm not sure what to cut. Always coming in tapped can really hamper early game development. I had lots of Discard, Bob, Seismic sequences, and tapped lands don't let you do that.
I think I'm gonna put the deck down for a little while, because I like to play lots of different stuff, and I'm loaning the Catacombs to a buddy who's going to Vegas. I will certainly come back to this deck though, it's a blast!
Round 1 vs Merfolk.
I was concerned about Spreading Seas, which he did have 4 of, but this match seems very favorable. If we draw Seismic Assault, our deck is playing about 40 removal spells. Cycling lands came in very handy post board to instant speed Dredge Loam in response to Relic pop. After casting Seismic, it felt like I couldn't lose. Win 2/0.
Round 2 vs Esper Death's Shadow.
I keep 5 land, Seismic, Abrupt Decay, thinking he would be on infect because he plays that a lot. My cards get discarded, but Cycling Lands + Faithless + Shadow of the Grave let me dig deep. A couple removal spells along the way let me survive to find Seismic and I 14 him. Game 2 I make a huge mistake that nearly costs me the game. After trading discard spells, I begin my turn 3 with Seismic Loam in hand, Blood Crypt and Stomping Ground in play, and Blood Crypt and Verdant Catacombs in hand. I play Verdant, fetch... Can't find an untapped red source. Of course he rips Thoughtseize and discards my Seismic, and I reveal my huge blunder. I got greedy, trying to put more lands in the yard, when I should have just played Seismic. Anywho, the game goes long with my Bob drawing me removal for his guys, and eventually Worm Harvest bails me out of my punt. Win 2/0 despite my egregious error. I have since burned the exact 26 lands I run into my memory.
I think I'll be going down to 2 Shadow of the Grave, and I might move Raven's Crime to the board. Shadow is very strong in the right place, but it's often not very good. Raven's Crime is extremely good in long control games, but also often dead. This will leave more room for 2 more Faithless Looting and maybe a maindeck Pulse or Dread Bore.
Having lots of fun with this deck, especially when I burst down Death's Shadow players. More updates to come on Wednesday.
Of note, I haven't played against any haymaker sideboard cards. Relic is bad, but not game over. I'm more concerned about beating RIP and Leyline of Sanctity. I'm playing 2 Nature's Claim in the board, and 1-2 Pulses. I hope it's enough.
Theoretically it can be "Thoughtseize Insurance" though. They target you with discard, and if you have something important, Shadow can get it back. It can also be handy on a late game turn where you Faithless and/or cycle some lands, then Shadow them back.
It's possible the card is just too cute, but I'm going to play it for a few more rounds before I make a judgment on it.
3 round FNM, went as follows.
Round 1 vs. B/g 8 Rack
Game 1: A buddy of mine who plays 8 rack on occasion decided to add green for Loam (Raven's Crime value) and Abrupt Decay. He wins the roll, and plays a Rack effect on turn 1. I Raven's Crime him, which in retrospect was a mistake, but he was on the mulligan and I thought there was a chance I could ruin his hand before he ruined mine. Bob #1 gets Liliana Edicted, but #2 sticks around to get a card and kill Liliana before being Fatal Pushed. He runs out of cards, and finds a second Rack effect, so I have to start keeping cards in hand. I find a Loam to help fill the hand to get me out of Rack range, and Bob #3 shows up to trade with a Mutavault. He keeps drawing discard, but Loam saves me from Racks until I'm able to find Seismic Assault and win.
Game 2: He starts on Forest, Rack. I start with Faithless, find a Confidant which draws an Abrupt Decay. His draw is slow, and I find a second Confidant on turn 4 or 5. I Inquisition him before casting Bob, see 2 Decays, take 1 and then the other, play Bob. It draws a card or 2 dies, he plays Gurmag Angler. I take 5 a couple times before finding my sideboard Maelstrom Pulse to kill it, and again a 3rd Bob which again trades with Mutavault. On the turn before I will die to 2 Racks, I draw Seismic Assault. I cycle a land, Dredge Loam, Loam up some lands, play Sesimic. He doesn't play anything, and says go at 19 life. I dredge Loam, 12 him, Shadow of the Grave to 12 him again.
Round 2 vs. Esper Mentor Control
Game 1: Another buddy of mine, and the games he tells me this list went 9/0 on day 1 of GP Kobe. This is NOT the Painful Truths/Glory-Bound list that top 8'd, but a different sweet Japanese Esper brew. Anywho, I win the roll, and my opening hand has 3 lands, 3 Bobs, and a Faithless Looting. Despite seeing more than 30 cards, I never see a Seismic Assault, and I die to Lingering Souls/Sorin/Smuggler's Copter.
Game 2: A good opener with discard, land, Loam, and Faithless. I Anger of the Gods on my turn 5 to kill 2 Lingering Souls, Mentor, and Jace. He rebuilds, but I've found Seismic Loam and have 6 shots this turn. I kill his 2 tokens, his flipped Jace (which was threatening to flashback Celestial Purge), and take his Sorin down to 1 so it can't make a token to crew a lethal Smuggler's Copter. He topdeck's Tasigur, and Copter kills me.
Game 3: Even though I lost 2/0, I felt like I was pretty close to winning both games. He disagrees, and humors me to a 3rd game for funsies. I go Bob, Seismic, cast Life from the Loam, and there is no way he can win. Faith in the deck restored !!
Round 3 vs. Grixis Death's Shadow
Game 1: He has only 1 discard spell, and 1 Death's Shadow which eats a Fatal Push. I'm able to assemble Seismic Loam, and kill him. Obvious note: you really want to 1-shot Death's Shadow players. Stubborn Denial can catch a Loam, and you really don't want to pump their Shadow until it's time to win the game.
Game 2: I open with Black Cleave Cliffs, Graven Cairns, Sesmic, Faithless, Terminate and 2x Abrupt Decay. I keep despite not having green, as I think this hand has a reasonable chance at surviving until I get green. He discards my Faithless Looting to attempt to stall me off green. I draw another Seismic, pass, he Thought Scours and Serum Visions. I draw Bob and slam it on turn 2. Of course it dies, but when he goes to discard me again, he sees 2 Seismics, so he takes the Terminate. I draw a land, slam Seismic Assault. From here, we both stall pretty hard. I'm holding my second Seismic, 2 Decays, and every land I draw, waiting to find Loam to 1-shot him. Eventually he Kolaghan's me, and I discard the Seismic. I keep drawing lands and inconsequential spells, and he durdles around with Snapcasters which I shoot before they can attack. After several turns he plays a Shadow, I Decay it, and I finally rip Loam. I know he has at least 1 Stubborn Denial in hand, but I have 4 mana which could pay for 2 Denials, and I shoot him for 12 winning the match.
So I go 2/1, pretty happy with the result. I felt like I could have easily beat the Esper player had it worked out a little differently, but on the other hand I feel like I got pretty lucky against Grixis Shadow. The mainboard felt very good. Shadow of the Grave didn't do a lot (I never got to use it to "counter" a discard spell), but the one time I did use, it won the game on the spot. The cycling lands felt very good, and I want at least 1 more in the deck. This deck often just needs to find Loam or Seismic as soon as possible, and the cycling lands add a little bit of digging while also being a good way to save a Loam from the yard. If they try to Spellbomb/Surgical/Scooze with only 1 mana, you can Dredge at instant speed with is pretty sweet.
That's all for now!
I'm curious about Spell Quelling a split card.
I cast Hit, and opponent Spell Quellers it. A turn later I kill the Queller. Can I cast Run?
What if the card I cast was Wear? When I kill the Queller, can I choose between casting Wear, Tear, or Wear AND Tear?
@Killer_Manfred as for your question about sideboards, I used to play this deck long ago, and Tron was a big problem. I'll be including at least 4 things that kill lands in the board, probably starting with 4 Fulminator Mage, and maybe a Crumble to Dust or 2. Yard hate can also be a problem, so I'll be including the 3rd and 4th Abrupt Decays to deal with Rest in Peace or force them to crack an artifact hate piece. Ancient Grudge is another easy include, as it can hit all of Affinity, some Tron pieces, and is a card that operates from the graveyard.
I don't own any Vessel of Nascency or cycling lands, so I'll be using Faithless Looting and some dual lands/man lands in their place. While coming into play tapped definitely sucks, Raging Ravine (and even Lava Claw Reaches) can really help when Seismic Assault won't get the job done for whatever reason.
Round 1 vs. Mardu Cards
Same guy I played on Wednesday, appeared to be the same list. Things went much better for me this time. I drew multiple Gravecrawlers in both games, and got aggressive quickly. Crawlers ate through Lingering Souls both games, which was pretty great. In game 2, I started on Crawler, then Thoughtseize. I saw 2 pyroclasms, and took 1 of them. On the next turn I Wrench Minded his last 2 cards, which were the other Pyroclasm and a Kolaghan's Command. I won 2/0.
Round 2 vs. Boggles
I Scullered him on turn 2, and saw 2 Gryff's Boon, which is a card I haven't seen yet. I thought it was a budget alternative, but after checking some sites, it looks like the deck is actually using this card. Anywho, I also saw 2 Paths, so I take one of those. He's stuck on 2 Forests, and gets a very slow start with 3 naked boggles for a few turns, while I curve out and get him. Game 2 is closer to a real game, where he gets 3 boggles, 2 with Spirit Mantle and 1 with Magemark. Even so, Relentless Dead times 2 is able to attack with Menace, and recur when blocked, and I play 3 Messengers to chip through for the win.
Round 3 vs. Bant Eldrazi
He stumbles on mana while I curve out with recursive threats. Game 2 he leads on Hierarch, I push it, he sticks Rest in Peace. I play a 1 drop, and Thoughtseize him, seeing lands, 6 mana Elspeth, another RIP, and Path. He only draws 1 creature for several turns, and I'm able to attack with a bunch of idiots for the win.
Round 4 vs. Jeskai Nahiri
I get a fairly poor draw on game 1. In the whole game I see 2 creature cards, and resolve 3 spells, on turn 9 I draw yet another land, and scoop. Game 2 I made a pretty savage error. He's mana screwed with Lighthouse, Island, Sacred Foundry as his lands, with 2x Nahiri and a Cryptic in his hand. I boarded in Lost Legacy to try to get his Anger of the Gods, but I see an opportunity to get both Nahiri's out of his hand. That's the right play with almost every Cranial effect ever printed... but not so with Lost Legacy. I shoulda read the damn card, because I name Nahiri, he draws 2 cards, gets unmanascrewed, and I end up losing. I did get a fairly bad draw in game 2, seeing only 4 creatures in about 8 or 9 turns, but I made a huge mistake and so I should have lost despite that. After the game, I rip my Lost Legacy cards into pieces, to ensure I will never again make the mistake of using that card in a deck.
- - -
Very happy with this tune, although I'm not sure I like it more than the Vial build. This deck continues to impress me. I thought it would be tier 2.5 for-the-lulz jank, but it doesn't actually feel that bad. I'm not saying it's a great deck, and my sample size is small, but it is tons of fun, and it feels very strong when the game goes long and you're able keep bringing back your clock.
I have a spicy card coming in the mail, so I'll probably take a break from Zombies for at least a few days, but I'll be back to it shortly.
2 Cryptbreaker
4 Dread Wanderer
4 Gravecrawler
4 Relentless Dead
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wayward Servant
4 Geralf's Messenger
Spells: 11
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands: 22
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
6 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
Board: 15
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Hero's Downfall
4 Wrench Mind
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Ghost Quarter
I played 4 games against Jeskai Nahiri, going 2/0 in preboard games and 1/1 postboard. The games went surprisingly well. I figured all the removal spells would be a problem, but I was fortunate to draw many of the 12 reanimating creatures fairly often. Collective Brutality and Liliana were very strong, as expected. Those cards are naturally strong against control decks, but having 8 cards that pull themselves out of the yard make them even better.
Postboard Anger of the Gods came out to obliterate me. When I was building this tune of the deck, I considered including Lost Legacy in the board so that I'd have a way to deal with that card. Lost Legacy can also be extremely strong against some other decks, naming Living End, Grapeshot, Scapeshift, and probably some other big deal cards.
I'll probably find room for a couple of those when I take the deck out again, and leave this mainboard unchanged to get some actual experience with it.
First, I just had to see for myself how nuts I could go with Relentless. Relentless asks for lots of available mana and a low curve to get the most out of his reanimation ability.
Second, I had to test Miasmic Mummy. In a vacuum his ability isn't great, but it gets much better when you strip their hand with other discard first (because they have fewer cards to select from).
Now that I've got those 2 boxes checked, I'm eager to try other stuff, like no Vial, Messenger, Colossus, Bloodghast, etc. Some number of Path and Brutality will also make the next maindeck. It's a good problem to have when there are so many cool cards to tinker with
4 Cryptbreaker
4 Dread Wanderer
4 Gravecrawler
4 Miasmic Mummy
4 Relentless Dead
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Wayward Servant
4 Fatal Push
4 Thoughtseize
4 Aether Vial
Lands: 20
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
6 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Hero's Downfall
4 Shadow of Doubt
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Collective Brutality
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
Round 1 - Death's Shadow Jund
We trade games 1 and 2. Game 3 this deck really got to do its thing. Aether Vial plus 2 Relentless Dead allowed me to block Goyfs for days, while recurring Miasmic Mummy and dead 1 drops. With an active Vial plus 3 lands, it's extremely hard to break through Relentless Deads, even when facing removal spells. Gravecrawlers and Dread Wanderers get to suicide rush through his blockers, and I take game 3. I boarded out 4 Thoughtseize, and brought in 2 Nihil Spellbombs and 2 Surgicals. Death's Shadow is threat light, so Surgical on any threat is powerful, and they use their graveyard a lot.
Round 2 - Mardu Cards
His deck is full of Bolts, Paths, Helixes, Pyromancers, Lingering Souls, and Planeswalkers. A nearly unending army of tokens buys him a lot of turns, while the burn spells usually go to my face. Sorin comes down to seal game 1. Game 2 is more of the same, but now he has Pyroclasms, and I lose again.
Round 3 - Grixis Control
Game 1 I get a good start with Vial on turn 1, start churning out threats and drawing with Cryptbreaker. Grixis's targeted removal and lack of early defense doesn't line up well against my recursive threats, though Kolaghan's Command is pretty brutal against Sculler and Vial. I take grindy game 1 off recurring dudes plus Wayward Servant. Out come 4 Fatal Pushes, in come 1 Spellbomb, 2 Surgicals, and 1 Hero's Downfall. Game 2 starts well for me, but then Tasigur shows up. Bolt Snap Bolt finishes me off.
Game 3 I lead with Cryptbreaker, he plays Serum Visions (top top). On turn 2 I Sculler and see 3 removal spells, Snapcaster, a second Serum Visions and land. I Sculler the Snapcaster, and Surgical his Visions, which gets a card out of his hand, and forces him to shuffle away the Fatal Push and land he left on top. The game goes long, he gets Tasigur, but by then I've assembled an army of idiots who can suicide past him, with Servant to make even the blocked idiots get him for 1 each turn, and I win.
Round 4 - R/G Titan Shift
I feel pretty good knowing that I have Surgical and Shadow in the board, but I find out that the deck plays Anger of the Gods main, and I get 5 for 1'd. At that point he's already at 3, and I topdeck a Dread Wanderer that is able to attack twice, and somehow I win. In come 2 Surgicals and 4 Shadow of Doubt, out go 4 Fatal Push and 2 Aether Vial. While I really like Vial, I need to maintain threat density and bring in anything that can stop him from Valakuting me for a million. Game 2 I get a decent curve, but he Scapeshifts for 8, and deals me 36 damage. Game 3 I have a good curve plus a Shadow of Doubt. I mount a decent offense, but after seeing his hand a couple times with Sculler and Thoughtseize, I know I'm gonna have to burn the Shadow of Doubt when he casts Primeval Titan. I draw a few more cards, but am unable to find another Shadow, and I get destroyed.
- - - - -
So I ended up 2/2 with my very rough first draft of the deck. I had fun with the deck, and got to ride the Relentless Dead Value Train a few times which was reaaaally cool. As others have said elsewhere, the deck thrives against midrange decks, where you have time to reanimate your whole deck turn after turn and slowly chip away while you look for a lethal critical mass. Mardu felt like a pretty terrible match up, which I'm fine with. I don't think it's really possible to build this thing in a way that doesn't fold to infinite removal + pyroclasm + Planeswalkers + Lingering Souls. Titan Shift seems like a bad match up too, with the maindeck Angers.
Vial + Relentless got some insane value, and while Vial isn't great everywhere, the mana it frees up allowed for a truly awesome grind plan.
I'll be tuning this deck, and should have another tournament or 2 by the end of this coming weekend.
I agree completely. Vial puts a huge squeeze on your non-creature spells. My first go will be with 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Push, 4 Vial, and the rest creatures and lands. Sadly, that leaves no room for Liliana, but I expect the freed up mana will be useful for all the activated ability costs. I'll report back with my findings.
Vial has proven itself for many years, and this particular deck is well suited to ignore it's biggest drawback: topdecking it late game. In the past, decks have just accepted that as a fair trade for the mana it provides in the early game. But THIS deck can cash in late game Vials with Cryptbreaker, Brutality, or even Liliana OTV.