@Offline, that's great to hear. Look forward to seeing all the updates on the primer.. and thank you for helping to update the primer..
Side point: I noted a interesting decklist on MTGO that won 4-0 in the daily. It ran 2 fulminator mage in mainboard and have another 1 in sb. i guess one of the plans is to put twin on fulminator.. interesting..
might actually go well with the grixis version of twin though.. not sure how it will goes.. lol..
Ya I remember either the first or second FNM I took this deck to...my brain was already fried from trying to keep track of all the triggers and lines of play. It literally took me 5 minutes of trying to properly sequence my plays to get a hivemind into play. I knew I could do it but I just couldn't line the play up in my mind. Luckily it was against one of my buddies and he was pretty understanding lol
lucky for you then. there are some that are not very understanding regarding the fact that you need to think at times.. It is a deck which you probably need to goldfish quite a bit at home before bringing to tournaments. lol..
I disagree, I only ran 3 TCs in my build and switched them out with telling times and I am beating Junk, Infect, Burn, Affinity, Amulet all day long. The deck has not lost that much power, people are just not trying hard enough.
But I am not here to change your mind. You continue doing what you do, and I will do the same. As I have been told, local metas dont matter in this game.
You have to be joking. I've seen a ton of people say that UR Delver needed to be hit, but someone pretending that it isn't a big deal that the deck lost (for the way the deck played out) a 1 mana +2 card advantage spell is a new one. Comparing it to a one mana LOOK at three cards? Really? Cheap, raw advantage spells are unprecedented for tempo decks. The "4 cards tops" is particularly hilarious, as any individual ban (excluding a hypothetical Relentless Rats variety) is "4 cards tops." Tons of decks would fall apart with the loss of "just" 4 cards.
I would love to know what decks fall apart if they just lose 4 cards.. This isn't sarcasm by the way.
I know some decks will fall apart if they lose their key cards like twin losing twin, scapeshift losing scapeshift, bloom titan losing amulet.. Mostly are combo decks who will fall apart if 4 of their key cards are taken away. But most decks doesn't I believe. Of course it make them alot weaker like taking away eidolon from burn, karn from tron, lotv from jund/junk and etc but they wun necessary fall apart.
Edit: for delver and cruise, I do think the ban of cruise weaken the deck alot but it is still playable just that there are better choices to play over delver in general..
you have a guy asking if inkmoth nexus is really "worth it" it's a $10 card!
So...how is that about the deck, rather than that particular player? If someone said that, PTFRF may have been their first experience seeing the deck piloted by upper echelon players.
Of course, the answer to his question is a resounding "yes".
I've been on G/U Infect for a long time, and I've always felt the potential was there. I think the mindset that it's a "cheap" deck kept people away from it. I have even tried to cheap out on it, by not running Hierarchs or fetches. (Currently un/self employed, and no one around here runs Modern anything anyway, so it's not been a priority)
One thing I found funny about commentary during the featured matches, was the reaction to Wild Defiance. Was it Buehler and Sutcliff perhaps? Anyway, when seeing Wild Defiance, there was a reaction of "Wild Defiance? Woooooooowwwww." And I was like "Yes guys, I've been running that for-freaking-ever now."
I'm testing right now to get a feel of the right build for me. Starting with two Become Immense. I want to get one when I need it, but I don't want a zillion mana spell clogging my hand. I dropped the Rancors I was running in a heartbeat. I'm glad the deck is getting some recognition now, and is creeping out from under the boot of being seen as a "cheap deck", both financially and mechanically.
infect isn't really that cheap a deck though. Of course there are more expensive decks. noble hierarch and fetches itself does cost quite alot actually although it is good that prices of fetches went down to make the deck cheaper.
of course one can go with mono green infect to save costs but it isn't a deck that people will pick up just because it is cheap unless they want to do the mono green version. On the contrary, there are people who wants to pick up the deck but did not pick it up because they found it expensive simply because of the noble, inkmoth and fetches.
Heres to all the free-wins from people net-decking this and thinking they can just pick it up and win
this deck is not easy to pick up and win for sure.. there are so many decisions to make and it is probably one of the hardest deck to pilot at the moment considering there are so many things to take note during the game like all the mana, triggers and etc.. lol..
I feel like the pro tour metagame is a huge argument in favor of aggressive unbans. I didn't see anything that was busted or overpowered, but BGW is too prevalent.
I'd like to see Bloodbraid unbanned so that we have some diversity in the police force (making further unbans that much safer), sword of the meek and AV to drive some more experimentation in Uxx control decks, and Dig Through time to bolster scapeshift and a controlling version of Delver. Making Jund viable means that Scapeshift can be kept in check with blood moons, and I just don't think the DTT version of Delver would be busted.
Edit: Maybe AV or DTT is enough, but I think they play in different decks. Scapeshift players, would AV help you or not really?
A bloodbraid elf unban at this time will probably make BGx go up even higher in prevalence? Though I'm not against BBE being unban to see how it will shake up the format if a few other things can be unbanned together to balance things out.
But of course unbanning BBE will increase BGx even more is just an assumption which might not be true but considering that BBE will go straight into Jund mainly and perhaps Zoo kinda make it feel that way.
Whoosh. I was being hyperbolic with my numbers, apparently with too much deadpan.
My point is that one deck being almost a third of the tournament meta should absolutely be setting off some alarm bells. The fact that it didn't win PTFRF is irrelevant. The Abzan decks happened to not get paired with the Twin decks, which let the Twin decks then get paired with a good matchup (Bloom Titan). It was pure chance.
Along with that, Abzan made up a large percentage of the top 8, which means that it's very unlikely to get less popular (even with the meta settling, it's entirely possible that people who play BGx stick with BGx) by any large degree. It's already at the prebanning levels of Birthing Pod and could potentially go up.
That's kinda a given, don't you think? It's kinda expensive so people who do buy the necessary cards are serious about playing with it and don't throw it in the corner like people apparently did with Delver once something else comes along.
The truthfully disturbing result of this Pro Tour, was that there were two versions of an Abzan deck, developed to beat Abzan decks.
Which will be very bad choice in an open meta and things like GPs. You saw Jacob Wilson just losing to Twin swiftly and without much of a chance. Giving up the disruption sounds like a death sentence to be honest.
Would this have been a big GP instead and he would have been paired against Storm or Twin at any point in time he would have never gotten as far as he did there.
It is probably a meta call for him to use that deck though since his deck is tuned to beat Abzan mirror and have a good game against the aggro field.
Just a little note. Actually twin did not fare that well in the Pro Tour. The winner of pro tour got there because his draft results helped in the total points.
In the modern portion,of the top 20 decks, there is only 1 twin deck. of the top 64, there are only 6 twin decks compare to the 12%- 13% of the field who brought twin to the event. So Twin kinda under performed?
Also luck played quite a big part as well. There are 3 abzan, 2 burn, 2 twin and 1 bloom titan in the top 8 and the 2 twin decks got the luck not to fight against the 2 traditional abzan list ( kinda our bane) in the top 8 which run all the discards and more removals namely abrupt decay which the abzan deck piloted by Jacob Wilson which Jelger Weigersma face in the quarter finals is a anti abzan abzan deck which does not run any main deck discards, lotv and only have path as the removal which makes it weak to combo decks like twin.
But it was really nice to see the twin games. Antonio game against Lee Shi Tian burn was really exciting and who would expect 1 little exarch with 1 power would be the one to close that game out. Grats to the winner!
Brainstorm would ruin the format. Combo would get a lot better, control might play with it but it's not looking for a Force so it isn't as good. It would easily make Delver teir 1 again and would overall just be a bad move.
Also, this is the ban list discussion. Talking about bringing Brainstorm to the format should be in a different thread.
No one in their right mind will want brainstorm to be in modern. it will simply turn modern into legacy from there.. lol..
Im building this deck, i only need to get 4x celestial colonade and 1x Eiganjo Castle and i dont know if running 1x or 2x Sulfur Falls
Can someone show me a good list for reference?
i dont have vendillion and cryptic, hope next month for buy it
most lists doesn't play 4 colonnades because the midrange version play lesser lands and having too many colonnades in hand can be clunky. 2 to 3 is usually the norm. The more control version do play 4 though.
Vendilion and cryptic is rather dependent on the meta you are facing. Alot of lists do not really run cliques unless there are more combo decks around. Usually 1 or 2 the most or they are in the sb. Cryptic nowadays also get cut quite abit due tot he fact that 4 mana to counter a spell sometimes can be bad or too slow. There are lists uses 1, 2 or 3 and there are lists that does not uses them as well. So is depends on how you want to build it. Of course if your meta is less aggroish and burn then probably it is good to have more cryptic for the control, combo and midranges matches.
Have anyone tried valorous stance so far? Or is the 2 mana too much for us? From my view, bolt and helix can take care of creatures easily for those that have 3 toughness while stance can take care of 4 toughness and above creatures instead which is usually what path is used for in general as well though at times we do use path to kill creatures that are 3 toughness and below as well..
Stance although is abit situation but I kinda like the value it gives especially against BGx since their creatures are usually too big to be bolted.
Playing a control deck, more than playing other decks requires a lot of experience with the deck so that all your decisions become automatic. You also need fast mechanics in shuffling, drawing, tapping, writing down life totals etc. If you do not have the experience you have to think about every decision, which is both mentally drainign and time consuming.
Even strong players like Patrick Dickmann said that playing his tempo twin deck was really grindy, and the matches took a lot of time, so he had to practice his mechanics a lot to not draw every round. He played a lot faster after realizing this. You can also see recent starcity matches with Jim Davis on UW control. Jim Davis is a very slow and thoughtful player by nature, but he is VERY fast with his UW control deck mechanics, since he knows he has to end games well within the time limit (and even then picks up draws during the tournament). This took him quite a bit of practice!
I would not recommend taking an uwr control deck to a GP if you are not practiced with it! If you still want to run a similar shell, switch to a tempo shell with geists and cliques, or to a flash shell with just 4 snap 4 resto 2 clique, or to a combo shell with 2/3 snap 4 resto 2-4 wall of omens 0-3 blade splicers and 2 Kiki Jiki. All of those versions end the games faster potentially, so you need to spend less time and mental energy when playing.
Patrick Dickmann when playing his twin took longer due to DTT and ever since DTT is ban i guess the timing will be better.
So I guess the consensus will be not to play a control deck in a GP unless you really had a lot of practice with it before and is confident of being able to finish matches in the stipulated timing.. hmmm..
How do I get this rename credit? That is because I realize someone have previously used my email to register here and given me a username that I do not wish to use even though I wish to use this email. Thank you.
Side point: I noted a interesting decklist on MTGO that won 4-0 in the daily. It ran 2 fulminator mage in mainboard and have another 1 in sb. i guess one of the plans is to put twin on fulminator.. interesting..
might actually go well with the grixis version of twin though.. not sure how it will goes.. lol..
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/263617#online
I would love to know what decks fall apart if they just lose 4 cards.. This isn't sarcasm by the way.
I know some decks will fall apart if they lose their key cards like twin losing twin, scapeshift losing scapeshift, bloom titan losing amulet.. Mostly are combo decks who will fall apart if 4 of their key cards are taken away. But most decks doesn't I believe. Of course it make them alot weaker like taking away eidolon from burn, karn from tron, lotv from jund/junk and etc but they wun necessary fall apart.
Edit: for delver and cruise, I do think the ban of cruise weaken the deck alot but it is still playable just that there are better choices to play over delver in general..
of course one can go with mono green infect to save costs but it isn't a deck that people will pick up just because it is cheap unless they want to do the mono green version. On the contrary, there are people who wants to pick up the deck but did not pick it up because they found it expensive simply because of the noble, inkmoth and fetches.
1) Is the Grixis twin version gonna be discussed inside here?
2) A couple of hate cards that should be added in aka choke , boil which are rather commonly seen in BGx sb.
3) Might be good to have a section giving a rough idea of how favorable preboard and post board against some of the commonly seen decks.
4) Perhaps a section on some of the technical plays and more intricate interactions of the decks that is not commonly seen?
But of course unbanning BBE will increase BGx even more is just an assumption which might not be true but considering that BBE will go straight into Jund mainly and perhaps Zoo kinda make it feel that way.
In the modern portion,of the top 20 decks, there is only 1 twin deck. of the top 64, there are only 6 twin decks compare to the 12%- 13% of the field who brought twin to the event. So Twin kinda under performed?
Also luck played quite a big part as well. There are 3 abzan, 2 burn, 2 twin and 1 bloom titan in the top 8 and the 2 twin decks got the luck not to fight against the 2 traditional abzan list ( kinda our bane) in the top 8 which run all the discards and more removals namely abrupt decay which the abzan deck piloted by Jacob Wilson which Jelger Weigersma face in the quarter finals is a anti abzan abzan deck which does not run any main deck discards, lotv and only have path as the removal which makes it weak to combo decks like twin.
But it was really nice to see the twin games. Antonio game against Lee Shi Tian burn was really exciting and who would expect 1 little exarch with 1 power would be the one to close that game out. Grats to the winner!
1) is blood moon effect a replacement effect or a static effect?
2) if an opponent cast choke or boil, does it affect the non basic lands that are islands if blood moon is in play?
Vendilion and cryptic is rather dependent on the meta you are facing. Alot of lists do not really run cliques unless there are more combo decks around. Usually 1 or 2 the most or they are in the sb. Cryptic nowadays also get cut quite abit due tot he fact that 4 mana to counter a spell sometimes can be bad or too slow. There are lists uses 1, 2 or 3 and there are lists that does not uses them as well. So is depends on how you want to build it. Of course if your meta is less aggroish and burn then probably it is good to have more cryptic for the control, combo and midranges matches.
Stance although is abit situation but I kinda like the value it gives especially against BGx since their creatures are usually too big to be bolted.
So I guess the consensus will be not to play a control deck in a GP unless you really had a lot of practice with it before and is confident of being able to finish matches in the stipulated timing.. hmmm..