MTG Salvation

Quote from hyalapterouslemur »

Well this is silly. So, what should we nickname it? Aibo?

I like Manite's nickname for it: Lobocop.

I love this card tho, the art-flavor is so goofy mad scientist, while the card also having some real Johnny uses. Fun.

Votes: TriceDefied, StonerOfKruphix
Honorable Mention: Piar (I like Hunt, but I feel the land sac-regen is odd on the creature, and also that it is kind of weird at Rare. I would have liked something a bit different with to go with Trample + Hunt or even just make it a basic, Trample + Hunt creature only.)

Fiddle 2U
Sorcery (R)
As an additional cost to cast Fiddle, shuffle an artifact you control to your library.
Search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost 1 plus or 1 minus that artifact's converted mana cost and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
A little elbow grease, a touch of magic and even the oldest machine can shine again.

"Why is it that every time someone proposed Converge in the past it received the "this is Suburst" treatment along with comments such as "WotC would never do this yadda yadda", but now that WotC has done it, it's subtle genius?"

Because Sunburst and Converge have enough differences to feel like different mechanics: Sunburst went only on creatures, had narrower design space (You need Charge Counters in the set for the rules text to make sense) and only gave counters. Converge is an ability word which may go on nonpermanents and is an ability word, giving it different effects. This is why Devotion also didn't feel like a rehash: Devotion solved problems with a previously iffy idea while bringing new gameplay. Note that Devotion was met with skepticism at the start precisely because it was treading on Chroma's heels and suceeded solely because it fixed problems with it (as Chroma isn't a bad idea) and brought new gameplay.

By comparison, Evoke already triggers both ETB and death triggers, so having it be death triggers only or ETB + death triggers only doesn't give it a functional difference. Note that right now Evoke is literally the same text on Oracle as Ability ( http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=397746 ), except it says Evoke cost instead of Ability cost.

"AS far as the state of Worship... I love Worship's flavor. It's perfect. But "Kicker - Tap a creature" just so boring. I'm not sure what to do about Worship, which is why I'm looking at other mechanics."

I think this is a bit of a large worry. Ravnica has a lot of mechanics that don't necessarily read amazingly but end up liked: for example Unleash.

In the sense of your Ravnica block, this seems worse than Worship flavor-wise: Since when does Orzhov throw away its assets for a one-time effect? It's got a life and death feel, but not in the way the Orzhov trade it as a commodity. What was wrong with old Worship?

Outside of the sense of that, this is too similiar to Evoke to be a Guild mechanic. Yes, it is not exactly the same as Evoke, but Evoke already used death triggers and your average player is not going to think about the subtle difference and will feel like it is just Evoke. It also doesn't offer many gameplay differences from Evoke, so it feels like it is just a cop out.

Aphotic Wretch is not common, death triggers already are iffy at common, then you're giving every W/B guild a chance to draft strong removal (1W/B and you can still block with it for the effect or whatnot), and it also gives pure White decks a way to just exile something with no recourse. Removal like this would be in the Uncommon slot. Pathetic Crawler probably gains too much life for the mana cost and stat-line, especially at Common for limited play.

I do not really recommend this mechanic as a Guild mechanic.

Votes: Indighost (I'm not the only Hearthstone fan, I see :P), GameWorldLeader

Honorable Mention: Flatline (Like the "If you spent X life or less" on Phyrexian Mana, not all that big of a fan of the card.), acheron_xi

Bloodborn Champion 2BR
Creature - Demon (U)
Devour 1 (As this enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice any number of creatures. This creature enters the battlefield with that many +1/+1 counters on it.)
When Bloodborne Champion enters the battlefield, place a +1/+1 counter on each other creature you control for each creature it devoured.
"Let us feast on flesh and soul."
2/1

Quote from bravelion83 »

Quote from RukiMotomiya »

Honorable Mention: Bravelion83 (Is it ineradicable or uneradicable?)

It's with an "i". I know because I specifically checked before posting the card.

Alright, cool to know. That's a new word to add to my vocab!

Quote from JDAEnzio »

Also want to say that while I loved the idea of your Worship mechanic, I love RukiMotomiya's version even more! It feels so flavorful and also effective, but is a bit more of a choice than the citpt downside. Very white/black, just because I think tapping a creature to get x effect is not too far feeling-wise from sacrificing it for an effect which is super black. Maybe to draw on that more, have it tap the creature until it leaves play (kind of like a self-arrest type effect), but I actually think it's perfectly good as is. My only problem is I'm not sure if it suits Orzhov's flavor as the bleeder/tax archetype guild, but that is probably just my thinking too narrow, just like how it probably isn't 100% absolutely necessary for Simic to always deal in +1/+1 counters. Probably would template it like Exploit, and maybe rename it to something like Dominate to make sense of it flavor-wise.

Since I suggested this version, I'll give me thoughts. Though first off I want to say that, IMO, Worship as the name fits perfectly. Orzhov, after all, mix "religion" with "business": Extort showed a bit more off of the business side, while Worship feels like it allows more of the Religious side, while still keeping the business side involved (The tapped creature being "Indebted" to the creature entering play).

The key to how to make Worship work with Orzhov's bleeder/taxing style is to consider how Worship effects the game:

- Although Worship may be put on smaller creatures, it will most often likely appear on midrange to later game creatures, meaning that it naturally favors a slower deck, fitting with the slower, bleed/taxation style. It wants to go on more midrange/late game creatures because you need a creature out to work with it, so you want your early game creatures out.

- Worship taps your creatures, meaning less attacking, which encourages alternate damage sources and ways to win. I believe that relating to this, one way to do this is by caring about tapped creatures.

Here's some sample cards, as I said I am not the best at this so their balance may be off but they are mostly here as proof of concept, of how you could meld Worship with bleeding and taxation. The names are also pretty placeholder. Some of these are variants on old Orzhov cards as well, since they usually hit the Bleeder/Taxation style. I ended up going nuts and designing more cards than I expected, eheheh...


On the topic of Guild Mechanics, I feel they are neccessary for a Ravnica block. The Guilds and the strong multicolor/hybrid, represented via guilds, are the very cores of Ravnica. I firmly believe that if Magic could not make the Guild Mechanics work in a 2-set block, they would use one of their "exceptions" to turn Ravnica into a 3-set block to make it work, because it is essential to what Ravnica is and expectations.

EDIT: Fixed issue Harlannowick pointed out where I forgot to include the card text "another" in my Worship sample cards.

Votes: IlGreven, SkyBoundFencer

Honorable Mention: TriceDefied

Note @ Hemlock: You probably meant "Heroine of the Conclave", not "Heroin of the Conclave", unless Selesnya's color has been changed to Walter White.

White Lotus Overseer 3WW
Creature - Human Warrior (U)
Vigilance, Invigorate (Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature has less power or toughness than this creature, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.)
Creatures you control with +1/+1 counters on them have Vigilance.
"With insight, I provide wisdom. Within my sight, I dispel impurity." - Oath of the Overseers
3/3

Some thoughts as someone who loves Ravnica but isn't the best with MTG mechanics.

Azorius/Quicken: Flavorfully, this works in W/U, but it doesn't feel like it especially fits with Azorius flavorfully. The whole point of Azorius is that they slow things down, bog them down, detain them and so on and so forth, tons of paperwork and the like, so having a mechanic that makes them go faster seems...odd. This mechanic feels like it would go in a W/U people in a different world. Even the name evokes how it feels a bit off: "Quicken" is the exact opposite of what the Azorius do!

I would personally shelve this mechanic for a different block and replace it with something else.

Golgari/Swarm: "Token Scavenge". This is probably my favorite mechanic and I actually quite like it! Flavorfully it fits quite well with the Golgari theme of recycling, it plays well with old Golgari cards (I can Swarm out Tokens, then Scavenge to make them big tokens!) and doesn't seem that difficult to balance. I also feel it reads quite well and will appeal to many people. A big plus to me. You can also compare how the name sounds much more Golgari, seeing as how it is part of their guild's name.

The costs on the sample cards might be a bit small.

Rakdos/Malicious: A slightly mechanic that reads slightly boring, but the tension it makes means I think it might play better than it sounds. It fits the Rakdos quite well and "Malicious" is a fine name, though I do wonder if there's a better one. This mechanic doesn't have much to say about it but it seems good.

Gruul/Bloodrite: This mechanic is playing with fire, because it is extremely snowball heavy. If your opponent can't stop early Bloodrite guys, the ability to trample all over the foe before they start the game is large. AFAIK, you don't need these dudes to survive to get your cost reduction either, leading to potential suicidal strategies to dump a big guy. The space also feels very narrow, since this pushes so hard into ramp in a color combo (R/G) that will probably already get some ramp. Single color splashes also could potentially lead to issues in other Guilds.

This mechanic shouldn't necessarily be scrapped, but you need to have a mechanic in place because I feel it could be shelved for developemental/play reasons OR for the fact it could constrain design too much. It does feel quite Gruul and have a quite Gruul name, so that's a good plus.

Simic/Mutate: I actually like this mechanic, it reads pretty well. Like with Quicken though, I question how Simic this is, as it doesn't have one of the big things all Simic mechanics have had and the feel of the Guild: The ability to just grow out of control or be very combo heavy. Simic is essentially the "Johnny" class, but this is a very Timmy (Big dudes)/Spike (Resource management) mechanic. The name is a hit and the mechanic does hit other Simic stuff, but I'd still be iffy on it.

Like Quicken, I would save this for another block and consider replacing it with something else for a Ravnica block.

Dimir/Spy: This is my least favorite mechanic in the block. Design space for this mechanic is almost nill (too small even for a Guild mechanic), because of the fact that a threshold of things that work with it and fit Dimir will probably lead to Fateseal-esque oppressiveness and un-funness. The mechanic reads extremely poorly because the effect it has, looking at the top card of a library, is so do nothing. It's going to lead to moments in games where you cast multiple cards with Spy in a turn and it's just like "yep, the top card of my library is still an island". It doesn't do anything by itself except extremely minor information gathering.

I implore you to scrap this mechanic as fast as you can unless playtesting reveals something REALLY surprising.

Selesnya/Thrive: This mechanic just feels so...uninspired. By 2010, Reinforce was considered a design mechanic due to being unmemorable and filler-ish. Thrive ups it some by giving it a # and allowing you to do a bit more with it, but it still feels rather...just there. The name feels like it doesn't fit Selesnya especially and instead sounds like a mechanic I'd meet on somewhere more fight-y like Tarkir honestly. I'm surprised it didn't involve trying to make it sound grow-y given it is Selesnya.

This mechanic feels like you can do better, but it isn't bad to have in. I would find a better name for it, though.

Orzhov/Worship: This is my 2nd favorite mechanic in name and concept, but I think you have it backwards. Tapping a creature as it ETBs isn't a big deal and forces low impact on the cards. Instead, it should work in reverse: The creature entering the battlefield taps another creature, making it "worship" the big creature, and gains an effect! Here's two sample cards:

Orzhov Spirit (Common)

Creature - Spirit
2/2
Lifelink
Worship - When Orzhov Spirit enters the battlefield, you may tap another untapped creature you control. If you do, place a +1/+1 counter on Orzhov Spirit and it gains flying.

Unholy Acolyte (Common)
1B
Creature - Human
2/1
Worship - When Unholy Acolyte enters the battlefield, you may tap another untapped creature you control. If you do, target creature gains +2/+1 until the end of the turn.

This helps get across the Orzhov feel (People get indebted to you and pay you back later, giving you the effect), creates more interesting descisions (Most of your untapped creatures will be on the field, so do you attack or tap it for Worship? Or maybe they have a Tap ability? And so on) and has a more splashy feel. This mechanic would probably go a bit more on larger creatures as well.

I quite like the flavor and feel of Worship, so I really hope it works.

Izzet/Reload: There's a name for this mechanic. It is called Buyback! This mechanic isn't terrible, but you need to consider if you want to bring back mechanics for Guilds, and the fact that Buyback is potentially very powerful. I'd also argue that this mechanic is not very Izzet, in fact in some ways it is the opposite of Izzet: They're unpredictable and flashy and explosive, while Reload-Buyback is doing the same thing repeatedly, which isn't how Izzet rolls. I also question why you would use this and not just bring back Buyback.

I don't particularly like this. I think you can do better.

Boros/Assault: This feels very similiar to Bloodrite and Battalion, which both attach riders to attacking. with Battalion also caring about how many creatures attack. The wording on this ability can at times be confusing (Does Lead The Charge work if enemy creatures attacked, as it does not specify my own? When does the creature count as "attacked"?). This just feels too similiar to what's already been done and too similiar to Bloodrite. I'd chance Bloodrite over this. There's not much to say, design space could be a bit too limited.

I would try to find a better and more flavorful mechanic.

tl;dr summation

Keep:
Swarm
Worship (But edit it slightly)
Malicious

Meh:
Mutate (However, keep for another block)
Thrive

Dangerous:
Bloodrite

Remove:
Quicken (However, keep for another block)
Assault
Reload

Remove With Vigor:
Spy

I just wanted to pipe in and say I like Rebellion and Recruit as mechanics, Rebellion is a bit specific but it is fine to have ocassional specific mechanic.

Quote from mrhathaway »

Quote from Lord_Mektar »

I predict many Princess Celestia alters will be made of this card.

I hope not, there's already enough altered cards relating to that cancer in this game.

"There is a fandom I dislike, therefore I will refer to it as cancer."

Know what's more annoying than overzealous MLP fans? Overzealous MLP bashers.

OT: It makes its own gravy.

Quote from Courier7 »

Quote from WizardMN »

Quote from Courier7 »

Rant off. Let me actually read the card now. So by gaining life I can get a 5/5 indestructible creature at my end step? Lifegain is trivial--sign me up. The Lone Rider approves.

Just to be clear, this doesn't work. You need to gain before the End Step or the trigger won't go onto the stack at all due to the "intervening if" clause.

However, this seems like a really good card. A 5/5 for 5 that requires little more than the use of a gain land or something with Lifelink and you can start pumping out 5/5 indestructible horses.

I can see that I didn't make it clear that the expectation was that I would somehow gain life before the end step. Yes, that assessment is correct--if the life gain doesn't happen before the end step then no horse token. I used Lone Rider only as an example because it has first strike and lifelink, so even if it dies in combat I still gained life when it blocks; the fact that it is riding a horse--or becomes a "horse"? horrorrse? difficult to figure the transformed creature out--is entirely coincidental.

Actually, that was my fault. I misread Lone Rider thinking you gained life in the End Step. So, Lone Rider works well enough

Quote from Xcric »

i want to fling the token at people so i can beat them with a dead horse

Use Brion Stoutarm, then you get more Horses

i want to fling the token at people so i can beat them with a dead horse

Hahahahaha wtf?!

My buddy's wife plays with our group every once in a while. She actually has an Abzan Horse themed deck that rocks any art with people on horses. This is perfect for her but I never expected it

Quote from Dynamite_Private »

I'll take "This was a cat in Development and it snapped the FFL in half, so they had to make it an unsupported creature type instead" for $500, Alex.

Double Jeopardy,

My thoughts exactly.

I'll take "This was a cat in Development and it snapped the FFL in half, so they had to make it an unsupported creature type instead" for $500, Alex.

Quote from entombedhydra »

Is it wrong I wish this was vigilance or first strike or something else > indestructible? Indestructible has been watered down like Gideon ... yeah, yeah... another Gideon who turns into a creature... an indestructible creature... blah blah blah.

I find myself hoping this is the first in a multiblock cycle, as they give each color one big quasi-obscure-tribe mythic that makes big tokens with an on-color keyword triggered by an easy on-color condition.

A big green Elk that grants Elks hexproof, and makes an Elk token at the end of any turn in which a creature you controlled dealt damage.
A big red Manticore that grants Manticores haste, and makes a Manticore token at the beginning of any combat of any turn in which an instant or sorcery you controlled dealt damage.
A big black Wraith that grants Wraiths deathtouch, and makes a Wraith token at the end of any turn in which any creature died.
A big blue Salamander that grants Salamanders prowess, and makes a Salamander token at the end of any turn in which you drew a card other than the-first-in-your-draw-step.

So when we come back to Amonkhet, it will be a horse plane with horsey people doing horsey things?

Quote from krishnath »

Quote from luminum can »

I'm... guessing this is a reference to Egyptian mythology that I'm not familiar with? A bizarre but fascinating card.

The Ancient Egyptians was one of the first people who tamed the horse, of course, they only used it to pull chariots into battle, still...

On topic, love the card. Good to see some of the lesser tribes get some love. Now to break out the Armored Warhorse and Hipparion...

Looks kind of like it was a jackal that they turned into a horse at the last minute (hooves and nose). Alternatively, it could be some kind of weird Set reference.

As weird as the animal is, I really like the dust/shadow horse in the background.