It is not any fun to play a game and cheat in it too, I will never understand that...where is the fun?
I guess that the fun is in winning 42900$ and being revered as one of the best players in the planet...
There is a difference between fun and what you just described. unless you think having your name all over the internet because you got caught fun.
In addition, that sounds more stressful than fun.
I don't need to cheat, I believe in the heart of the cards.
Card stacking is for cartoon protagonists and cheaters they should be dealt with accordingly. It is no t any fun to play a game and cheat in it too, I will never understand that...where is the fun?
I do not know why you would be offended by this? Is it a threat of some kind to athletes that games of the mind are on the same level? Well I should not generalize and say all, because not everyone thinks that way. I am just sorry you think so.
Anyways, I do not find issue with calling it a sport. Chess, Go or the case may be MTG.(though I am ok if MTG would be more categorized as professional gaming).
Ive read the first paragraph and i'm going to break your bubble right away...
First, playing cards is not a sport
People can't even agree that playing chess or poker is a sport, and I wouldnt, so you're a long way home...
Second of all, you need audience for that and there aren't...MTG is a closed circle compare to whats out there..... you cant even get starcraft competition on tv like in asian countries and your thinking of an mtg broadcast?!?!?!
Eitherway, maybe you'll get supporter here and there and good luck with your project but i'm not gonna attend/watch this and i've known mtg since their beginning. So here were my thoughs on the matter
Well, I have to disagree. I think those games can be considered sport. Such as the game of Go.
Why can't a card game have a pro following like MLB? Im not saying that it could happen now, or very quickly. I wouldn't dismiss it right off the batt.
Regardless of how many times you do it, it's not sufficiently random.
It is, in fact not random at all.
Except if you choose a random pile where to put your next card (including new piles, up to a maximum your decksize, obviously) in which case it's just as random as actual random and probably more random than the 'sufficiently random' of aforementioned 7 riffles.
Reality is that no deck is truly randomized. Decks are supposed to be 'sufficiently randomized'. That is also why a lot of people are hating on the MODO shuffler, because that *is* actually random (well, for as far as computers can generate random numbers).
A fun experiment is to stack all your lands on top of one another and then 'sufficiently randomize' your deck as you would do in a sanctioned tournament. Do this, say, 20 times and note how many land streaks of 4+ lands are in the deck. Next, weave your lands and 'sufficiently randomize' your deck again, as you would do in a sanctioned tournament. Count the land streaks of 4+ again.
If both methods would produce truly randomized decks, the outcome will be very similar. However, decks aren't truly randomized. I will guarantee you the latter method will result in less land clumps. Now of course all you theorists will come in and shout 'but then you didn't shuffle properly and you're cheating'. That's not true actually. I did not randomize my deck, that is correct. That is because that's not really possible given limited time. What I did was 'sufficiently randomize' my deck according to the tournament rules.
Really, before you come back here and tell me how it theoretically *should* be, try it out. You will not like the results.
Mana weaving, even after 'sufficiently randomizing' your deck will provide different results than not mana weaving. Whether or not that results in an actual advantage is a different discussion.
Randomization by shuffling is a really interesting mathematical topic. Simulating a human like bridge shuffle turns out to be extremely straight forward and the underlying probabilities are complicated but not nightmarish. You can see pretty easily that seven riffles results in randomness indistinguishable from computerize sorting shuffle. I have pictures of the stages on my computer at home. I'll post them tonight if anyone is interested.
Basically the measure of well shuffledness is how many sequences from the original arrangement are still present after a shuffle and how long they are. The best result is that there are N/2 sequences of length 2. Seven riffles shuffles gets to this with very nearly the same probability of using an RNG to position each card independently.
That's really cool. I'd love the see the pictures when you have a chance.
I guess this all boils down to how well somebody shuffles. There are factors that are hard to take into effect though, such as bad shuffling and sticky cards (think how old Dragon Shield sleeves tend to stick to themselves). Whenever my wife plays Commander, she always gets me to shuffle the deck because the deck is huge, her hands are small, and I simply know how to shuffle better than her.
If you shuffle your deck even half way decently, then seven shuffles should be fine and the deck should be statistically random.
I have this same situation. My wife cant shuffle a EDH deck too well so I usually shuffle for her. For EDH particular, it is harder to get a fair shuffle because of the 35+ lands that get clumped, and this can cause for terribly long game 2's lol. So i can see why somebody would do it initially. I mean how many of us actually think about, if i do land creature land then shuffle it defeats the entire purpose of the weaving? I think the argument should be kept to sanctioned events only IMO and not casual because if done the way i mentioned it doesn't really matter does it?
try being born Filipino.... atleast they get the feeling you are Asian if you are Chinese, but being Filipino? "is your country part of asia? I thought its only japan and china"
People can literally just look at a globe and see that asia is much more than china and japan.
o.O are we actually discussing that asia is more than two countries?
Anyways, oregon is very diverse and we would gladly accept a new geek into the community
Hello! so this is a deck that was built from the ground, I am its creator and like Frankenstein it is very ugly and confused.
A little background:
It first started out as a deck i built for my wife so she can play, i threw some 1 1 counter cards together and made a small theme. however it has since evolved from that but it doesnt know what shape to take, and its curve is everywhere. Please help out with focusing this deck, im mostly interested in seeing what goal this deck can take currently and how it could do it better
thanks, and please be gentle, this was my first EDH deck I made by myself from my own collection.
EDIT: i uploaded this from tapped out but i cant seem to get it right....it came out as a huge long list.
It's cheating because it's eliminating the random nature by forcing a reliable, predictable rate of land distribution.
In a tournament, you can get DQ'd for it, even if you allow your opponent to shuffle/cut it. It actually takes a lot of work to return a deck to purely random distribution after even a slight forced order manaweave.
so you think it is cheating in all context or just not cool in sanctioned? you still have potential for mana screw either way but then again im more of an EDH player not standard, and EDH is a pain to shuffle.
All contexts, but I don't care if it's done in a casual setting.
lol i guess i'm not as hard boiled as you are. i don't feel it is cheating in a casual setting. However in a sanctioned event it best to just shuffle regular as it could make an unfair advantage if everyone else isn't doing it also lol mana screw is annoying but its part of the game i suppose just easier to shuffle that way in edh
Formaly, yes, there are an infinite numbers of board states.
But i think : Kiki + Conscripts + any number of token can be grouped into just one state relevant for the decision tree.
Except that any player might interact with it at any point so you can't just ignore the exact board state.
A simpler proof that there are an infinite possible number of Magic games is to observe that there are infinitely many possible decks, unless you limit the AI just to considering decks that are 60 cards.
Regardless the number of possible games is close enough to infinite as makes no difference for computation and vastly larger than in Go.
then maybe instead of saying infinite we could use vastly larger. However we r arguing Symantecs. Regardless the two are different games and require a different approach. Obviously it cannot be brute forced and memorize every game state / tree. It will need to think and therfore be superior ai.
It's cheating because it's eliminating the random nature by forcing a reliable, predictable rate of land distribution.
In a tournament, you can get DQ'd for it, even if you allow your opponent to shuffle/cut it. It actually takes a lot of work to return a deck to purely random distribution after even a slight forced order manaweave.
so you think it is cheating in all context or just not cool in sanctioned? you still have potential for mana screw either way but then again im more of an EDH player not standard, and EDH is a pain to shuffle.
I have a friend who plays a ramp deck. He ends up with maybe 10+ lands by the time a game is finished so in order to avoid drawing 10 continuous lands next round, he'll take the 10+ lands and weave them in between the nonland cards, crush shuffle, then overhand shuffles a few times for good measure. I've never had a problem with it and none of the people we play with care. However, in an officially sanctioned tournament, is this something that you can get nailed for? Say, even after allowing your opponent to cut your deck?
I do somthing to this effect, i do land card land card, etc, then i shuffle abit and cut. I personally don't see the issue, my buddy's do it as well. However at a sanctioned event you are kind of asking for trouble, because some people may not appreciate that. I however don't see why it could be cheating, IF under the assumption you actually shuffle and cut afterwards. I find it helps to do this for EDH decks, especially after a big game and your mana is kinda clumped.
There is a difference between fun and what you just described. unless you think having your name all over the internet because you got caught fun.
In addition, that sounds more stressful than fun.
Card stacking is for cartoon protagonists and cheaters they should be dealt with accordingly. It is no t any fun to play a game and cheat in it too, I will never understand that...where is the fun?
Anyways, I do not find issue with calling it a sport. Chess, Go or the case may be MTG.(though I am ok if MTG would be more categorized as professional gaming).
Well, I have to disagree. I think those games can be considered sport. Such as the game of Go.
Why can't a card game have a pro following like MLB? Im not saying that it could happen now, or very quickly. I wouldn't dismiss it right off the batt.
I have this same situation. My wife cant shuffle a EDH deck too well so I usually shuffle for her. For EDH particular, it is harder to get a fair shuffle because of the 35+ lands that get clumped, and this can cause for terribly long game 2's lol. So i can see why somebody would do it initially. I mean how many of us actually think about, if i do land creature land then shuffle it defeats the entire purpose of the weaving? I think the argument should be kept to sanctioned events only IMO and not casual because if done the way i mentioned it doesn't really matter does it?
Anyways, oregon is very diverse and we would gladly accept a new geek into the community
1x Beastmaster Ascension
1x Bonehoard
1x Bow of Nylea
1x Centaur Battlemaster
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crowned Ceratok
1x Deadly Recluse
1x Den Protector
1x Dromoka's Gift
1x Eldrazi Devastator
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Explore
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Fertile Thicket
37x Forest
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Genesis Hydra
1x Gyre Sage
1x Hornet Queen
1x Howl of the Night Pack
1x Inspiring Call
1x Ivy Lane Denizen
1x Living Totem
1x Longshot Squad
1x Map the Wastes
1x Mutant's Prey
1x Naturalize
1x Nissa's Pilgrimage
1x Noble Quarry
1x Oblivion Sower
1x Opaline Unicorn
1x Parallel Lives
1x Pathbreaker Ibex
1x Phytotitan
1x Planar Portal
1x Plummet
1x Predator's Rapport
1x Primeval Bounty
1x Primordial Hydra
1x Radiant Fountain
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Renegade Krasis
1x Return to the Earth
1x Revive
1x Sandsteppe Mastodon
1x Satyr Grovedancer
1x Scour from Existence
1x Sedge Scorpion
1x Seek the Horizon
1x Sheltered Aerie
1x Shield of the Avatar
1x Sporemound
1x Terra Stomper
1x Thought Vessel
1x Tribal Unity
1x Tuskguard Captain
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Undergrowth Scavenger
1x Voyaging Satyr
1x Windstorm
1x Zendikar's Roil
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
Hello! so this is a deck that was built from the ground, I am its creator and like Frankenstein it is very ugly and confused.
A little background:
It first started out as a deck i built for my wife so she can play, i threw some 1 1 counter cards together and made a small theme. however it has since evolved from that but it doesnt know what shape to take, and its curve is everywhere. Please help out with focusing this deck, im mostly interested in seeing what goal this deck can take currently and how it could do it better
thanks, and please be gentle, this was my first EDH deck I made by myself from my own collection.
EDIT: i uploaded this from tapped out but i cant seem to get it right....it came out as a huge long list.