So I"m still trying to catch up on this thread, and maybe I haven't gotten to it yet but, how is this unbanned when I can T1 draw, play no cards, discard Protean Hulk into my GY, trigger him for say 6 mana dorks (or something similar) and by T2 I'm tapping for 6 mana plus any land I drop and artifacts I bring into play.
This seems worse than any T1 + Sol Ring + Mana vault etc shenanigans
I dont see the infinite combo with grave Titan / Wurmcoil + Deathmantls + Ashnod's Altar though. I dont see how I could keep paying for GT.. but I guess I could make up enough with the WC Engine by saccing the tokens AND The Engine for 6 clear mana. But this 'seems' to be a zero sum result.
Would love the enlightenment.
Okay, so it works like this: you have Nim Deathmantle in play with Ashnod's Altar, and then you drop Grave Titan, which puts two 2/2 Black Zombie tokens into play. You sac Grave Titan and one of the tokens to Ashnod's Altar, producing 4 colorless mana. Then you use that mana for Nim Deathmantle's activated ability, returning Grave Titan to the battlefield. This process nets you one zombie token, and you can repeat it an arbitrarily large number of times.
It also works with Wurmcoil Engine, except the wurm tokens enter the battlefield one step later.
I always left Skullclamp out because it was too powerful and then just forgot to find it a spot when I made the more to want to be more competetive.. thanks for the reminder.
I dont see the infinite combo with grave Titan / Wurmcoil + Deathmantls + Ashnod's Altar though. I dont see how I could keep paying for GT.. but I guess I could make up enough with the WC Engine by saccing the tokens AND The Engine for 6 clear mana. But this 'seems' to be a zero sum result.
Firstly, lets see if I get this right with Skirge Familiar: Since I'm using Erebos ability to populate my GY I may as well get some mana for it since while I toss the 'money cards' into the GY anyway? Seem to me this ideas is awesome and I am thinking I might want to reduce my creatures a 'bit' and add things like Sign in Blood or Read the Bones?
That's it. It also makes it far easier to cycle through your deck when you draw useless cards (which is an inevitability with Erebos).
Without wishing to sound like I'm trying to generate traffic for my own thread, check out my Xiahou Dun thread (link in sig). Though it has a vastly different game plan it's a good example of how to get a deck like this running smoothly and is tuned to work in both multiplayer and 1v1.
Thanks so much for the help and links. Very helpful.
I think the hardest part about tuning a deck so that it's viable in both 1v1 and MP environments is that 1v1 decks are largely non-ramping, relying instead on an extremely efficient curve to ensure quality drops for every turn. In multiplayer, a deck without lots of ramp will very often fall too far behind to recover in the mid to late game, which is where all the "magic" happens.
@OP: If you want to make your deck competitive I have three suggestions:
1) Look at each card with a CMC over 3 - how vital is it to the way the deck functions and how quickly does it impact on the game in a meaningful way? If the answer to either of those is 'not very' then chances are it's not worth having in the deck.
2) Run Triskelion. It gives you another infinite combo to win with and despite what a lot of people say about the card it is good outside of that combo, particularly in a reanimation deck like this.
3) Look at the nonbasic lands in your deck - which ones are really necessary? You're currently running nowhere near enough Swamps to make use of Cabal Coffers effectively.
Anyway, this looks like a very good deck with a lot of potential, so keep at it.
Firstly, lets see if I get this right with Skirge Familiar: Since I'm using Erebos ability to populate my GY I may as well get some mana for it since while I toss the 'money cards' into the GY anyway? Seem to me this ideas is awesome and I am thinking I might want to reduce my creatures a 'bit' and add things like Sign in Blood or Read the Bones?
Ther is a lot of good advice here, and thank you for your last comment I have worked hard to dig up a lot of these cards / synergy even if after the fact some of them show up on decks in tappedout / reddit etc. But I guess that can't be helped in this format.
Consider Triskelion added, never realized he combo'd with Dark Mike... and he's nice on his own.
Also as for the advice on the lands as I started to look at them, you are right there are some I can get rid of and add basic swamps.
Lastly I plan to go through the list with a fine tooth comb as you suggested in #1 and we'll see what I come up with, I will update this thread when I do later this weekend / next week.
Thank yo ALL for your time to look into this for me it's very interesting, educational and appreciated!
Hi, I've toyed now and again with a Chainer, Dementia Master deck, so I know monoblack can get pretty vicious. First of all, I do recommend swapping in Chainer as your commander and adding Erebos to the 99, but only if you're keen on building the deck around ramp, reanimation, edicts/board control, and attrition. You've already got most of the pieces for it, but unfortunately a couple of the missing links are pretty expensive, namely Volrath's Stronghold, Karn Liberated and Bitterblossom.
I think the hardest part about tuning a deck so that it's viable in both 1v1 and MP environments is that 1v1 decks are largely non-ramping, relying instead on an extremely efficient curve to ensure quality drops for every turn. In multiplayer, a deck without lots of ramp will very often fall too far behind to recover in the mid to late game, which is where all the "magic" happens.
With that in mind, you might consider having a couple of packages you can switch in and out for the types of matches you'll be playing.
If you're interested, I might have a few more suggestions for you, but it would help to know a little about your metagame. What kinds of decks do you play against? Are they creature-heavy? Does your group frown upon infinite combos?
The idea of packages is interesting to me as I have already dabbled with that by removing the tutors when I wantt o play with the less competitive group.
For where I wish to go with this deck, infinite combos seem to be a necessity (I have other decks for the less tournament level I wont to bring this deck to) so suggest away.
I will be adding Triskelion to the list to get me more another infinite option to start.
Have you tested this yet? I'm curious how Whip of Erebos is working out for you. You run almost 3x as many creatures in your build than I do in mine, though, so your mileage may vary. With so many creatures, how often does Erebos go online? If the lifelink doesn't pan out, you might consider dropping Toxic Deluge, as much of your draw entails life loss.
Check out my Erebos list if you haven't already. Link's in my signature!
Yes I have tested the deck in multiplayer and even in 1v1. The issue with my testing is that the meta I am in isn't competitive. They players are VERY capable and experienced (players since Ice-Age) and are always awesome to help point out the misses in my deck with some synergies I just don't see, but their decks are usually limited in investment or pure thematic. Which is why I have TWO other decks that fit in this meta better, but I want to ascend to the next level and they are awesome to let me 'dry-run' my deck in our group from time to time.
As for Whip.. it was literally the last card I added today when re-vamping my deck. In the 10ish times I have played it has never come out and I don't usually tutor for it as even with next to no lifegain in my deck I can win / close to win on just blowing my life, drawing until I get all my big guns in place and then it's too late.
I honestly was going to take it out and put in something else. I just ordered a fews cards that will take it's place I am sure.
Granted my meta hasn't yet started to stack lots of GY hate for the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph but I suspect I'll see it and have to adjust in the tournament scene.
Your deck is pretty interesting and there are some cards in there I like a lot and will have to see if they fit in my 'fun' (I dont always like to net deck but something you get ideas and just have no choice but to show the sincerest form of flattery and copy it.
I consider myself still new to magic as I only started during the Innistrad block and had dismissed it as a 'childs game' since it 'launched'... what a mistake I could have spent SO MUCH MORE MONEY on it if I only started in the 90's.
Anyway, got into EDH about a year ago and haven't looked back. I'm running three EDH decks and a few months ago I decided I wanted to make a deck around reanimation and Erebos, God of the Dead with the idea that lifegain + card draw == discard into the graveyard.
I want to begin competing in the local EDH tournaments and want to round out making this deck really competitive; so I ask this community to critique / converse and advise on this deck and where I would like to go with it.
Guidelines:
Budget, I would say that my limit isn't set but fact is I can't drop $100.00's instantly on any 1 card but I don't mind 'investing' over time.
I want to use this deck in 1v1 AND multiplayer. I know this creates somewhat of a moving target, and one day with enough cards I'll break it out into TWO decks, but for now I want to be flexible EVEN if that means losing power in the 1v1 tournaments for the short term. MP currently is more my focus but that is changing.
I want to stick to mono black. even though I could have better options out there. However, I am willing to change my commander. (I am mulling over swapping in Chainer, Dementia Master or Balthor the Defiled as you read this.
Some notes on a couple of 'weird' card choices: Trading Post: Sac outlet and artifact recursion Ophiomancer: Sac fodder for Skullclamp and Contamination and wow a deathouch 1/1 blocker. Sudden Spoliing; Man I love this card, can get me through a SEA of blockers especially if I can find a way to get me a X/-2 effect on the board. Also if I have a few big hitters that I reanimated w/ Chainer, dementia Master and he is about to hit the graveyard, Sudden Spoiling him and he loses the "remove all Nightmares from the game" trigger ability.
Most of my the graveyard populations will be done through mass destruction and discards on my end.
Thanks so much.
This seems worse than any T1 + Sol Ring + Mana vault etc shenanigans
-
John
Enjoy.
This... is a thing of beauty.
Thank you from the bottom of my EDH loving heart!
-
John
I always left Skullclamp out because it was too powerful and then just forgot to find it a spot when I made the more to want to be more competetive.. thanks for the reminder.
I dont see the infinite combo with grave Titan / Wurmcoil + Deathmantls + Ashnod's Altar though. I dont see how I could keep paying for GT.. but I guess I could make up enough with the WC Engine by saccing the tokens AND The Engine for 6 clear mana. But this 'seems' to be a zero sum result.
Would love the enlightenment.
Thanks so much for the help and links. Very helpful.
-
John
Paired with Braids on my field, insane.
History of Changes
- Whip of Erebos
+ Triskelion
- Buried Ruin
- Encroaching Wastes
- Rogues Passage
+ 3x Swamp
- Dash Hopes
+ Lashwrithe
- Myojin of Night's Reach
+ Bloodgift Demon
- Corrupt
+ Disciple of Bolas
Adjusted the Bench.
Firstly, lets see if I get this right with Skirge Familiar: Since I'm using Erebos ability to populate my GY I may as well get some mana for it since while I toss the 'money cards' into the GY anyway? Seem to me this ideas is awesome and I am thinking I might want to reduce my creatures a 'bit' and add things like Sign in Blood or Read the Bones?
Ther is a lot of good advice here, and thank you for your last comment I have worked hard to dig up a lot of these cards / synergy even if after the fact some of them show up on decks in tappedout / reddit etc. But I guess that can't be helped in this format.
Consider Triskelion added, never realized he combo'd with Dark Mike... and he's nice on his own.
Also as for the advice on the lands as I started to look at them, you are right there are some I can get rid of and add basic swamps.
Lastly I plan to go through the list with a fine tooth comb as you suggested in #1 and we'll see what I come up with, I will update this thread when I do later this weekend / next week.
Thank yo ALL for your time to look into this for me it's very interesting, educational and appreciated!
Cheers!
-
Jean
The idea of packages is interesting to me as I have already dabbled with that by removing the tutors when I wantt o play with the less competitive group.
For where I wish to go with this deck, infinite combos seem to be a necessity (I have other decks for the less tournament level I wont to bring this deck to) so suggest away.
I will be adding Triskelion to the list to get me more another infinite option to start.
Yes I have tested the deck in multiplayer and even in 1v1. The issue with my testing is that the meta I am in isn't competitive. They players are VERY capable and experienced (players since Ice-Age) and are always awesome to help point out the misses in my deck with some synergies I just don't see, but their decks are usually limited in investment or pure thematic. Which is why I have TWO other decks that fit in this meta better, but I want to ascend to the next level and they are awesome to let me 'dry-run' my deck in our group from time to time.
As for Whip.. it was literally the last card I added today when re-vamping my deck. In the 10ish times I have played it has never come out and I don't usually tutor for it as even with next to no lifegain in my deck I can win / close to win on just blowing my life, drawing until I get all my big guns in place and then it's too late.
I honestly was going to take it out and put in something else. I just ordered a fews cards that will take it's place I am sure.
Granted my meta hasn't yet started to stack lots of GY hate for the reasons mentioned in the first paragraph but I suspect I'll see it and have to adjust in the tournament scene.
Your deck is pretty interesting and there are some cards in there I like a lot and will have to see if they fit in my 'fun' (I dont always like to net deck but something you get ideas and just have no choice but to show the sincerest form of flattery and copy it.
Wow!
I consider myself still new to magic as I only started during the Innistrad block and had dismissed it as a 'childs game' since it 'launched'... what a mistake I could have spent SO MUCH MORE MONEY on it if I only started in the 90's.
Anyway, got into EDH about a year ago and haven't looked back. I'm running three EDH decks and a few months ago I decided I wanted to make a deck around reanimation and Erebos, God of the Dead with the idea that lifegain + card draw == discard into the graveyard.
I want to begin competing in the local EDH tournaments and want to round out making this deck really competitive; so I ask this community to critique / converse and advise on this deck and where I would like to go with it.
Guidelines:
1v1 ANDmultiplayer.I know this creates somewhat of a moving target, and one day with enough cards I'll break it out into TWO decks, but for now I want to be flexible EVEN if that means losing power in the 1v1 tournaments for the short term. MP currently is more my focus but that is changing.even though I could have better options out there. However, I am willing to change my commander. (I am mulling over swapping in Chainer, Dementia Master or Balthor the Defiled as you read this.Some notes on a couple of 'weird' card choices:
Trading Post: Sac outlet and artifact recursion
Ophiomancer: Sac fodder for Skullclamp and Contamination and wow a deathouch 1/1 blocker.
Sudden Spoliing; Man I love this card, can get me through a SEA of blockers especially if I can find a way to get me a X/-2 effect on the board. Also if I have a few big hitters that I reanimated w/ Chainer, dementia Master and he is about to hit the graveyard, Sudden Spoiling him and he loses the "remove all Nightmares from the game" trigger ability.
Most of my the graveyard populations will be done through mass destruction and discards on my end.
and now... the deck.
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
Sac outlets (4)
1x Altar of Dementia
1x Trading Post
1x Ashnods Altar
1x Gate to Phyrexia
Tutors (7)
1x Demonic collusion
1x Demonic tutor
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Expedition Map
1x Entomb
1x Buried Alive
lifegain / lifedrain (4)
1x Exsanguinate
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Exquisite Blood
1x Sanguine Bond
Combos / Enablers (3)
1x Triskelion
1x Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1x Grave Titan
Removal / Destruction (13)
1x Hero's downfall
1x Plague Wind
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Mutilate
1x Damnation
1x Avatar of Woe
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x It That Betrays
1x Reaper from the Abyss
1x Butcher of Malakir
1x Braids, Cabal Minion
1x Sudden Spoiling
1x Necropotence
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Skullclamp
Some Ramp (5)
1x Sol Ring
1x Liliana of the Dark Realms
1x Crypt Ghast
1x Skirge Familiar
1x Nirkana Revenant
Shenanigans (5)
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Profane Command
1x Thoughtseize
1x Contamination
1x Ophiomancer
Creature Pump (1)
1x Lashwrithe
Protection (2)
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Whispersilk Cloak
Graveyard Love (3)
1x Filth
1x Grave Betrayal
1x Grave Pact
Recursion (11)
1x Necromancy
1x Diabolic Servitude
1x Reanimate
1x Animate Dead
1x Beacon of Unrest
1x Victimize
1x Nim Deathmantle
1x Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1x Geth, Lord of the Vault
1x Chainer Dementia Master
1x Bloodghast
1x Pestilence Demon
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Lands (37)
13x Swamp
8x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Lake of the Dead
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Strip Mine
1x High Market
1x Homeward Path
1x Maze of Ith
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Terrain Generator
1x Vesuva
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Deserted Temple
On the Bench (for now)
1x Go for the Throat
1x Xathrid Demon
1x Exhume
1x Balthor the Defiled
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Murder
1x Night's Whisper
1x Viscera Seer
Thanks so much for all your help and advice.
-
Jean