Lands: I'm running more fast lands and basics than most people. I feel like our burn matchup was pretty bad with the number of shocks and fetches we had. I understand we wanted to fuel delve, which is why I moved Tasigur to the board.
Creatures: Biggest change is moving Tasigur to the board for Bob. I was playing with this deck the other day and realized two things. One: we trade one for one so often that we can run out of cards really quickly, and two: our average CMC is really low. So, I decided to cut Tasigur in the main for Bob, and it's helping out a LOT in pretty much all of my matchups. Bob comes out vs Burn, but that's about it. I also run Young Peezy over Liliana. Lili is pretty meh in this shell, I feel like. A lot of the time, I really don't want to discard the Terminate or Bolt I've been holding up. Yes, she's a great removal spell, but I don't really think she synergizes as well as she does in Jund or Junk. I also run 4 Snaps over the 3/3/3 split that people like. I feel like he's too good to give up, but I would understand if people felt differently.
Spells: I took out a Thought Scour since I cut the delve creatures, and replaced it with a Blightning. It's definitely a flex spot, but it feels really nice. It can kill Planeswalkers, finish a game, or really destroy a tapped out control player. It also helps a lot vs burn.
Sideboard: Nothing really unique here. I'd probably swap out the 2x Languish now if I had any damnations.
So, I want to sleeve this up and test it pretty badly, but I have a few questions first.
Primarily, how is the burn matchup? I feel like Grixis Control/Grixis Twin have pretty excellent matchups against most of the field except for burn. If this deck has a poor burn matchup, then I don't really see a need to build it. I've seen some lists that run 4 fastlands and a lot of basics, so I'm tempted to try out one of those. Hitting ourselves for less than 5 by turn 3 feels a lot better against burn. Inquisition is also a great card vs burn, so I feel like the matchup is pretty good, but I'm wary.
Secondary, how does everyone feel about Lili? I don't currently have any Lilis, and some people here are complaining about it not really doing much work in this deck. I'm not sure what else we would replace it with (maybe Ashiok or something?), but if it's not doing much work, I doubt I'll drop the ~$200 on two of them.
I don't really understand your question. Giving their eidolon vampiric link gives us life every time either player cast a <3 CMC spell, and whenever it attacks. It is quite hilarious
Yes but is it worth running for that singular interaction? Magma Spray also hits great revel and it hits CoCo creatures that recur.
Absolutely. There are decks that you absolutely must have answers for in your sideboard. For example, Shatterstorm/Vandalblast for Affinity or Fulminator for Tron/Bloom. Burn is one of these decks. This deck is terrible against Burn and having a card that can completely turn the match around for us for 1 mana is absurd.
If you Vampiric Link their Eidolon and they don't answer it, they lose. Period. You'll be gaining 2 life or more a turn while adding to your board and messing with their stuff. They almost always have to kill their own Eidolon, which will net you 2 life (to offset the 2 you take when casting Vampiric Link on it) and a card from their hand. It's a 2 for 1, which is essential to get against Burn.
I agree 100%. Burn is pretty prominent in my meta, so I've gone up to 3 Vampiric Link in the Side. It works well for other matchups, too. It's essentially a 1 mana pacifism at worst.
Hey all, I've been working on iterations of this deck for the past few months. I originally took the concept from this article. It seems to be down right now, unfortunately, but it was essentially an Esper Mentor deck with Delver, Geist, and Restoration Angel. I ran it for awhile and had some pretty good success in two very specific matches: GBx and Twin. It absolutely dominated these matches, and beat most of the rogue decks that I encountered as well. It just had 2 gaping holes: Burn and Infect. Being a 3 color deck with 4 tectonic edge, it just hit itself too much to deal with Burn, and it ran no Paths to deal with Infect.
I went through a lot of iterations of the list before finally settling on this one right here:
I'll go over card choices here, and explain what matchups they're useful in and why.
Creatures
Delver of Secrets - This one is pretty obvious. He's a 3/2 flyer for 1, has a lot of synergy with the deck, and is pretty easy to protect. Good in pretty much every matchup.
Geist of Saint Traft - A lot of people have said this card has no place in the format right now, but I don't really agree. I think most decks are just trying to jam him on turn 3 too often, and that leads to them losing him to a T3 Lili or a Pyroclasm or something. However, if played after a Thoughtseize or Inquisition of Kozilek, you are able to play around spells like that. Even a T5+ Geist with countermagic backup feels pretty good. He's often a 3 turn clock, and that's definitely what a list like this needs to finish out matches. Good matchups: Twin, Control, Burn, U Tron, Infect, and sometimes Jund. Bad matchups: Junk/Jund most of the time (because of Lili), GR Tron (Pyroclasm), and anything that has a lot of big blockers, like Little Kid.
Snapcaster Mage - I don't think this one really needs explaining. Path snap Path, IOK Snap IOK, Snap Deprive, all of these are amazing. There's good reason this card is spiking to nearly $90. Good in all matchups.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang - This card has outperformed every time it resolves. Turn 2 Tasigur isn't uncommon in this deck, and this deck allows games to go pretty long, so it's a great topdeck when your yard has 10+ cards in it and you have 5 or 6 lands. The drawing ability is awesome, and I've honestly never sided him out. Good in all matchups.
Spells
Thought Scour - It was a tough choice for me to decide on Thought Scour vs Serum Visions, and a lot of people are going to disagree with me, but hear me out. Thought Scour powers Snapcaster Mage, Tasigur, Lingering Souls, Murderous Cut and can be used to respond to a spell and hope to draw removal or a counterspell. I currently am running 3, but I don't think it's unreasonable to run four. This card is pretty good in most matchups, but it's one of the first cards that I side out if I absolutely don't need it. The list is really tight and sideboarding can be difficult sometimes when it's not just -3 Geist of Saint Traft.
Lingering Souls - I started with two. Then I put in three, and soon after four. This card is amazing. It's one of the best ways to deal with this deck's most hated enemy: Liliana of the Veil. It also can shut down decks like Burn, Infect, Affinity, and Stompy. It effectively has two uses, so it's tough for control and tempo decks to deal with. Even an electrolyze doesn't kill all of it. It's the best spell to play when you expect counterspells, because you can just recast it later without losing any real card advantage. If both sides resolve, it can be a 4 for 1, which feels amazing, too. On top of all that, it flips Delver. I find myself winning with Lingering Souls more often than any other win-condition in this deck. Good in all matchups.
Inquisition of Kozilek - Some of you might be saying, "this looks like a tempo deck, why are you playing 6 hand disruption spells?" Well, you're right. It is a tempo deck, and they do seem a little weird. However, I found that in the current meta, they serve me a lot better than more countermagic would. Being able to proactively stop a Lili, Goyf, Twin, or Etched Champion has saved me more times than a Mana Leak ever has. The knowledge you gain while casting this is also extremely relevent. Yes, it can be a dead card sometimes, but the mana investment isn't the biggest loss. This card is the sole reason that the Infect matchup isn't terrible anymore. Path and Murderous Cut can only get you so far. The same goes for the Burn matchup. Good in most matchups, but pretty bad against decks like Affinity that just drop their hand.
Deprive - This is the most recent revelation I've had. I had a love-hate relationship with this deck for so long because of the non-bo between Mana Leak and Path to Exile. A lot of the time I just felt like I was stalling for Cryptic Commands, which was tough to hit with my manabase. Then I decided to try a couple of Deprives, and they 100% overperformed. Combined with fastlands, ghost quarters, or basics, returning a land to your hand doesn't feel that bad, and it feels amazing to counter a spell that someone played around Mana Leak for. It's one of the few unconditional counters in Modern, and I feel like it's the real deal. Good in all matchups, trust me.
Thoughtseize - Same as Inquisition, but a little more broad. Take out vs aggro.
Path to Exile - Best removal spell in modern, and now that I don't run Mana Leak, I don't care how many lands my opponent gets, most of the time.
Remand - Probably my least favorite card in the deck right now. Feels bad vs burn, and feels bad with 4 paths. I normally take it out for more specific counterspells like Spell Pierce or Dispel post-board.
Murderous Cut - Works amazing with Thought Scour, and it costs 1 mana. I've also played around with Dismember, both are good. Even casting for 5 doesn't feel terrible if it wins you the game.
General Strategy - Push and Pull
This deck has what I like to call a "push and pull" feel to it. Wax on, wax off, if you will. Play dudes, kill dudes. Essentially, the curve in this deck pushes you to this strategy a lot. You have access to a lot of very aggressive 1 drops: Thoughtseize, Inquisition, Delver, even Thought Scour, and you have a lot of very responsive 2 drops: Deprive, Remand, Snapcaster Mage, and then you again have a lot of aggressive 3 drops: Geist of Saint Traft, Lingering Souls, and Tasigur most of the time. This leads to you being aggressive turn 1, responsive turn 2, and again aggressive turn 3. This works pretty well against most decks, because a lot of early threats come out turn 2. I don't really recommend jamming a T2 deprive every game, though, as it will screw up your curve pretty badly, but it's better than letting them resolve a spell most of the time.
This deck doesn't have very many extremely easy wins. I'd say it doesn't have to fight for its wins as much as Fae or something, but it definitely requires a skilled pilot. Even Twin, one of its best matchups, has extremely long games. You have to pace yourself, drink a lot of water, and don't play stupid. However, it can absolutely demolish almost anything that the field will throw at you. It plays very similarly to Jund or Junk, answering every threat its opponent throws at it, and then dropping something even scarier. The bonus is that it beats those decks, too.
Thoughts
This deck looks a lot like Esper Mentor, and probably plays similarly, but it is definitely its own deck. Try it out, I think you'll like it. If you have any suggestions or questions, feel free to put them below. This is my first time writing a comprehensive primer, so let me know if I messed up at all. Thanks!
Reasoning: I don't necessarily play this deck like a tempo deck, per say. I've designed it to play similarly to BGx decks in that it has a lot of disruption and removal, with a few value creatures to win. Basically I think of it as faster steam vents Jund. Instead of Goyf, I have Delver, and instead of Scooze I have Young Pyro/Swift/Snap. For awhile I was running Thoughtseize in the main, but I found that this deck's manabase kills itself enough already. Honestly, though, I find the deck totally worth it just for IOK and Terminate. IOK gives me a lot of resilience against combo decks, and hits almost every major threat I need it to. Plus, it's an amazing Snapcaster Mage target.
I considered Bob, but I honestly like Treasure Cruise more. Bob is powerful, but he's very conditional. He has to survive 3 turns to achieve the same value as 1 Treasure Cruise, which can be hard with his low toughness, and he limits the cards you can have in your deck (can't really run Treasure Cruise if you have Bob). Treasure Cruise, however, is an amazing topdeck. Even on T3 the card only costs 3 mana for 3 cards, which is amazing. I find that I normally run out of gas in traditional Delver on T5-6, and Treasure Cruise really restarts the game for me.
My only concern with my list currently is that I'm not really utilizing enough cards in black. I'd like some suggestions on how to improve/tune this list. Thought about trying out Dreadbore, Despise, or Rakdos Charm in the main. I just want more disruption, mostly, without taking a Lava Axe T1. Thoughts?
Which Eidolon are you referring to? The red one or the white one?
Splashing white against the red one doesn't help because you're still hurting yourself when you crack for Fountain.
The white one can be handled with Echoing Truth, Combust or Flame Slash, which don't require a splash. Rule of Law is seeing much less SB play nowadays so you can just hope to dodge it (and often that's exactly what will happen).
It's mostly for the white one. I find Combust is fine, but wear // tear can also be helpful against Ethersworn Canonist and other random stuff.
So, what do people think about a one of hallowed fountain instead of a basic island so we can run Wear // Tear? Kills Eidolon, Rule of Law, a lot of annoying Affinity cards, etc.
Right now I'm running 3 Peer Through Depths and 3 Faithless Looting, and I'm thinking of trying to add in Tormenting Voice. I think I have two options.
Option 1:
3 Tormenting Voice
3 Peer Through Depths
Right now I'm running 3 Peer Through Depths and 3 Faithless Looting, and I'm thinking of trying to add in Tormenting Voice. I think I have two options.
Option 1:
3 Tormenting Voice
3 Peer Through Depths
I don't think replacing Looting would be the way to go though. In Lootings case, having another t1 card that can dig for a land or engine can be extremely helpful.
As far as the Grixis brew, i do agree, black doesn't really add enough to make the splash really worth it, but i figured i might as well test it out and see how it feels. I have been trying Dark Confidant in the board, and it is pretty great at beating UWR, and other control decks through sheer card advantage, and having discard is sweet for sure.. In the end though, it doesn't really feel any better than the standard list, and forces you into an awkward mana base.
Looting is really situational, though. A T1 looting is only really useful if you have an Ascension in hand or something dead to pitch. And honestly, I've had Ascension lootings lose me games before. Tormenting Voice gets around that with the "as an additional cost" part, and the ability to be reduced by Electromancer is pretty awesome.
Here's how I see it:
Faithless Looting
Pros:
One mana
Red
Interacts well to turn on Ascension (ie: targeted discard)
Flashback
Cons:
Card disadvantage (3 for 2)
Doesn't interact with Electromancer
Works poorly with copies from Ascension (4 cards gained for 5 cards lost)
Can sometimes be unplayable (ie: don't have anything to pitch in hand, so a dead draw essentially)
Tormenting Voice
Pros:
Red
Interacts well to turn on Ascension (targeted discard)
Interacts with Electromancer
Cycles/not card disadvantage (2 for 2)
Interacts really well with active Ascension (4 cards for 1, instead of 4 cards for 5)
Card advantage when flashback'd
Cons:
Two mana
No flashback built in
Can be two for one'd by counterspells
Can be unplayable sometimes (when only card in hand, for instance)
Overall, I think the targeted discard and cycling from this card is a lot better than looting, and otherwise the advantages outweigh the cons. Really, the only issue is the extra mana cost, but that's completely okay with me because of the Electromancer interaction.
Anyone like the new Ride Down card? I used a 2 of Fling for the same purpose, but this seems significantly better. Getting full damage from a huge Pridemate could be totally worth it.
Thinking of replacing faithless looting for voice. Draw spells in red are always good.
What do you guys think about keeping Peer through Depths with Tormenting Voice? I know that having two 2 drop cantrips becomes a little redundant, but I'm never really short red mana, and both of them being reduced by Electromancer seems worth it to me.
Don't play a single creature as your wincon, one removal spell and you're dead.
That red one-drop is bad anyway because it has no evasion, so they can just chump block it.
Definitely not the only win-con, but could be an interesting alternate one. Lack of evasion is definitely a problem, though. There needs to be a 1 drop blue prowess creature with flying for a deck to run it them, probably.
Still, in goldfishing on tappedout, running a couple of the new guy seems interesting. On the turns that I'm just digging, it gives me a little more of a clock, which makes going off easier later.
Anyone think the new Prowess Mechanic could be interesting? If they print a 1/1 flyer for 1 or 2, it could be a sweet alternate win condition.
T1: Steam Vents, 1/1 Flyer with Prowess
T2: Electromancer/Ascenscion
T3: Get to storm 5, grapeshot for 5, past in flames grapeshot for 7, enter combat and swing for 8 in the air.
Joking aside, I think I'll probably use deltas over mistys. I imagine they'll reprint tarns soon, too, but even if they don't, they were dropping in price. The night they announced the Onslaught Fetches I saw some tarns at $35 on TCGplayer. Didn't pick them up, but maybe should have.
2x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Darkslick Shores
1x Island
1x Mountain
3x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
3x Abbot of Keral Keep
3x Dark Confidant
3x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Young Pyromancer
Instant (12)
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Terminate
2x Thought Scour
Sorcery (11)
1x Blightning
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Rise/Fall
4x Serum Visions
2x Bitterblossom
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Fulminator Mage
2x Languish
1x Rending Volley
2x Spellskite
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Vampiric Link
Lands: I'm running more fast lands and basics than most people. I feel like our burn matchup was pretty bad with the number of shocks and fetches we had. I understand we wanted to fuel delve, which is why I moved Tasigur to the board.
Creatures: Biggest change is moving Tasigur to the board for Bob. I was playing with this deck the other day and realized two things. One: we trade one for one so often that we can run out of cards really quickly, and two: our average CMC is really low. So, I decided to cut Tasigur in the main for Bob, and it's helping out a LOT in pretty much all of my matchups. Bob comes out vs Burn, but that's about it. I also run Young Peezy over Liliana. Lili is pretty meh in this shell, I feel like. A lot of the time, I really don't want to discard the Terminate or Bolt I've been holding up. Yes, she's a great removal spell, but I don't really think she synergizes as well as she does in Jund or Junk. I also run 4 Snaps over the 3/3/3 split that people like. I feel like he's too good to give up, but I would understand if people felt differently.
Spells: I took out a Thought Scour since I cut the delve creatures, and replaced it with a Blightning. It's definitely a flex spot, but it feels really nice. It can kill Planeswalkers, finish a game, or really destroy a tapped out control player. It also helps a lot vs burn.
Sideboard: Nothing really unique here. I'd probably swap out the 2x Languish now if I had any damnations.
Primarily, how is the burn matchup? I feel like Grixis Control/Grixis Twin have pretty excellent matchups against most of the field except for burn. If this deck has a poor burn matchup, then I don't really see a need to build it. I've seen some lists that run 4 fastlands and a lot of basics, so I'm tempted to try out one of those. Hitting ourselves for less than 5 by turn 3 feels a lot better against burn. Inquisition is also a great card vs burn, so I feel like the matchup is pretty good, but I'm wary.
Secondary, how does everyone feel about Lili? I don't currently have any Lilis, and some people here are complaining about it not really doing much work in this deck. I'm not sure what else we would replace it with (maybe Ashiok or something?), but if it's not doing much work, I doubt I'll drop the ~$200 on two of them.
I agree 100%. Burn is pretty prominent in my meta, so I've gone up to 3 Vampiric Link in the Side. It works well for other matchups, too. It's essentially a 1 mana pacifism at worst.
My current list:
1x Blood Crypt
2x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
Spells (27)
4x Serum Visions
3x Cryptic Command
1x Dispel
1x Electrolyze
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Mana Leak
2x Spell Snare
4x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
3x Gurmag Angler
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1x Keranos, God of Storms
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Bitterblossom
2x Blood Moon
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Keranos, God of Storms
2x Spell Pierce
2x Spellskite
3x Vampiric Link
Hey all, I've been working on iterations of this deck for the past few months. I originally took the concept from this article. It seems to be down right now, unfortunately, but it was essentially an Esper Mentor deck with Delver, Geist, and Restoration Angel. I ran it for awhile and had some pretty good success in two very specific matches: GBx and Twin. It absolutely dominated these matches, and beat most of the rogue decks that I encountered as well. It just had 2 gaping holes: Burn and Infect. Being a 3 color deck with 4 tectonic edge, it just hit itself too much to deal with Burn, and it ran no Paths to deal with Infect.
I went through a lot of iterations of the list before finally settling on this one right here:
1x Darkslick Shores
4x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Seachrome Coast
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
4x Deprive
2x Murderous Cut
4x Path to Exile
2x Remand
3x Thought Scour
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
2x Thoughtseize
CREATURES (13)
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Batterskull
2x Disenchant
1x Dispel
2x Spell Pierce
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Thoughtseize
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Stony Silence
Card Choices
I'll go over card choices here, and explain what matchups they're useful in and why.
Creatures
Spells
General Strategy - Push and Pull
This deck has what I like to call a "push and pull" feel to it. Wax on, wax off, if you will. Play dudes, kill dudes. Essentially, the curve in this deck pushes you to this strategy a lot. You have access to a lot of very aggressive 1 drops: Thoughtseize, Inquisition, Delver, even Thought Scour, and you have a lot of very responsive 2 drops: Deprive, Remand, Snapcaster Mage, and then you again have a lot of aggressive 3 drops: Geist of Saint Traft, Lingering Souls, and Tasigur most of the time. This leads to you being aggressive turn 1, responsive turn 2, and again aggressive turn 3. This works pretty well against most decks, because a lot of early threats come out turn 2. I don't really recommend jamming a T2 deprive every game, though, as it will screw up your curve pretty badly, but it's better than letting them resolve a spell most of the time.
This deck doesn't have very many extremely easy wins. I'd say it doesn't have to fight for its wins as much as Fae or something, but it definitely requires a skilled pilot. Even Twin, one of its best matchups, has extremely long games. You have to pace yourself, drink a lot of water, and don't play stupid. However, it can absolutely demolish almost anything that the field will throw at you. It plays very similarly to Jund or Junk, answering every threat its opponent throws at it, and then dropping something even scarier. The bonus is that it beats those decks, too.
Thoughts
This deck looks a lot like Esper Mentor, and probably plays similarly, but it is definitely its own deck. Try it out, I think you'll like it. If you have any suggestions or questions, feel free to put them below. This is my first time writing a comprehensive primer, so let me know if I messed up at all. Thanks!
1x Blood Crypt
2x Bloodstained Mire
3x Island
2x Mountain
2x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
Creatures (13)
4x Delver of Secrets
3x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Young Pyromancer
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Izzet Charm
2x Remand
Removal (9)
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Terminate
2x Forked Bolt
Dig (11)
4x Serum Visions
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Treasure Cruise
1x Batterskull
2x Counterflux
2x Dismember
2x Mana Leak
2x Spell Pierce
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
2x Vandalblast
Reasoning: I don't necessarily play this deck like a tempo deck, per say. I've designed it to play similarly to BGx decks in that it has a lot of disruption and removal, with a few value creatures to win. Basically I think of it as faster steam vents Jund. Instead of Goyf, I have Delver, and instead of Scooze I have Young Pyro/Swift/Snap. For awhile I was running Thoughtseize in the main, but I found that this deck's manabase kills itself enough already. Honestly, though, I find the deck totally worth it just for IOK and Terminate. IOK gives me a lot of resilience against combo decks, and hits almost every major threat I need it to. Plus, it's an amazing Snapcaster Mage target.
I considered Bob, but I honestly like Treasure Cruise more. Bob is powerful, but he's very conditional. He has to survive 3 turns to achieve the same value as 1 Treasure Cruise, which can be hard with his low toughness, and he limits the cards you can have in your deck (can't really run Treasure Cruise if you have Bob). Treasure Cruise, however, is an amazing topdeck. Even on T3 the card only costs 3 mana for 3 cards, which is amazing. I find that I normally run out of gas in traditional Delver on T5-6, and Treasure Cruise really restarts the game for me.
My only concern with my list currently is that I'm not really utilizing enough cards in black. I'd like some suggestions on how to improve/tune this list. Thought about trying out Dreadbore, Despise, or Rakdos Charm in the main. I just want more disruption, mostly, without taking a Lava Axe T1. Thoughts?
It's mostly for the white one. I find Combust is fine, but wear // tear can also be helpful against Ethersworn Canonist and other random stuff.
I like Peer a lot better than looting, so 3/3 Voice/Peer it is!
Option 1:
3 Tormenting Voice
3 Peer Through Depths
Option 2:
2 Faithless Looting
2 Tormenting Voice
2 Peer Through Depths
Thoughts? I'm leaning towards option 2, because I do think Faithless Looting is worth it often enough that I shouldn't drop a red 1 cmc cantrip.
Looting is really situational, though. A T1 looting is only really useful if you have an Ascension in hand or something dead to pitch. And honestly, I've had Ascension lootings lose me games before. Tormenting Voice gets around that with the "as an additional cost" part, and the ability to be reduced by Electromancer is pretty awesome.
Here's how I see it:
Faithless Looting
Pros:
Cons:
Tormenting Voice
Pros:
Cons:
Overall, I think the targeted discard and cycling from this card is a lot better than looting, and otherwise the advantages outweigh the cons. Really, the only issue is the extra mana cost, but that's completely okay with me because of the Electromancer interaction.
What do you guys think about keeping Peer through Depths with Tormenting Voice? I know that having two 2 drop cantrips becomes a little redundant, but I'm never really short red mana, and both of them being reduced by Electromancer seems worth it to me.
Definitely not the only win-con, but could be an interesting alternate one. Lack of evasion is definitely a problem, though. There needs to be a 1 drop blue prowess creature with flying for a deck to run it them, probably.
Still, in goldfishing on tappedout, running a couple of the new guy seems interesting. On the turns that I'm just digging, it gives me a little more of a clock, which makes going off easier later.
So, they printed this:
R
Monastery Swiftspear - Human Monk
Haste
Prowess
1/2
Not exactly what I wanted, but it's a start.
Joking aside, I think I'll probably use deltas over mistys. I imagine they'll reprint tarns soon, too, but even if they don't, they were dropping in price. The night they announced the Onslaught Fetches I saw some tarns at $35 on TCGplayer. Didn't pick them up, but maybe should have.