I can't wait to get my blast zones in the mail. I think that the biggest impact this card will have is finally shifting grixis death's shadow to a favored matchup. It's pretty 50/50 in my experience and can change depending on the shadow's list. Chalice almost always gets countered, discarded, or hit with kolaghan's command. And while we can chump block for days the TBR will eventually get us. But having this card at 3 copies, I feel like it would be very difficult to lose because shadow itself is all that we really care about from them.
Also, Damping Sphere has been MVP for me. I was skeptical at first about it but honestly it's better against tron than Spyglass and it eats amulet titan alive too. Mimic into Damping Sphere is probably the best thing the deck can do against either of those strategies.
This is the sideboard I run at my shop. My shop is heavy on rock variants, death's shadow, and control. I think the dredge matchup is pretty easy with this setup and wouldn't recommend leylines over relic because of what you lose against rock. I think two damping sphere is necessary for its effects on tron, amulet, and phoenix. I think the flex spots here are the spyglasses. Tron's threat diversity is too wide imo for this to be effective. O-stone is the best card to name but I think you're better off damping them or cheesing them with quarter or surgical. It's also good against control but I feel like U/W Terminus is just too bad of a matchup anymore that you just gotta hope they don't have it. It's also such a small portion of the metagame that I just hope to dodge. Jeskai you don't need them. Whenever I take this to a big event I just swap out the spyglasses for something else depending on what I expect to face. I'm not on karn yet simply because I don't really face the problem decks (bridge, scales, etc) that karn is going to help against. Once he comes into the picture I'm not sure what I'll do.
I may have to give them a try then and see how things change, or just try to get some caverns and see what that does for me. That's actually interesting because I've lost way more times to spirits than I have humans even though humans seems to be better against us. Maybe I'm just getting unlucky with drogskoll locks and good CoCo's. How do you feel about the tron matchup or the Grixis Shadow matchup, any advice? I always seem to lose both of those but maybe I just need to go back to spyglasses and hope that's enough for tron.
Leyline of the Void would also probably make the hardened scales matchup winnable, because otherwise unless I cheese them with a chalice on first turn on the play its a dreadful matchup. Leyline would turn off ravager and walker which are their best cards. I'll definitely try to get my hand on some. Are the sowers and Ulamog really helping you against control? I figured with caverns those matchups wouldn't be an issue. That's why I was tempted to put caverns in the deck because I don't know how many times my opponent would've been dead turn 4 or 5 without countermagic. But I've used the funds for other decks. The only thing tho is outside of dredge, I don't have any issues against those other decks leyline is for. Im curious what you consider the worst matchups to be?
I have issues with control (without caverns), amulet titan, scapeshift (I haven't lost to it tho in the last 5 times I've played against it), Dredge (I assume haven't played it), hardened scales, Tron (I go on streaks back and forth), Whir/Lantern, and I'm not sure about the spirits/humans matchup, i feel like its a blowout either way each time I play against them. Sometimes I kill everything on sight and other times I get run over. Also for me Grixis Shadow always counters/blows up chalice and proceeds to murder me. Traverse is easy tho.
Also to anyone who hasn't tried it, torpor orb is a house. I removed ratchet bomb because it was underperforming for me. The bridge decks anymore will shut it down immediately and it's been too slow for me against humans and spirits. Torpor orb not only makes humans and spirits bad, but it also stops the new pod deck, elves, and amulet titan if they can't remove it. It's done much better for me in testing than ratchet bomb had. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't torpor orb also stop amalgam triggers?
Glad you did well Austin! I actually talked to you and thought you looked familiar but when you asked me for sowers I figured you were there for the legacy classic lol. I brought eldrazi too cuz i figured I'd be playing against phoenix, burn, and shadow but alas I went 3-4 before dropping.
L Spirits 0-2
W Jund 2-1
L Tron 1-2
W Jeskai 2-1
L Grixis Whir 1-2
W Jund 2-1
L Kiki Combo (possibly pod) 0-2
I was salty at first because I didn't get to play any of the most popular decks but I felt good about how I did because I won every winnable matchup. Spirits got me because no removal game one and game two double drogskol lock. I lost to T3 Tron 2 games in a row which I can't really stop since I took the spyglasses out of the side. Whir is just unwinnable, game 3 almost got him with mimic, seer taking bridge but he topdecked another. Kiki oombo just rushed me game 1 I didn't have enough removal and game 2 I misread a card and died because of it. I can't personally vouch for Leyline because I haven't got any to play with but I can say Relic is integral to beating the fair control and midrange decks imo. Im currently doing a 3/3 split of Relic and Ravenous Trap but I haven't played against dredge yet to know if it's even worth it. I know relic certainly isn't enough for dredge but Idk if it's worth fighting over. I dont think you need graveyard hate beyond relic against anything besides Bridgvine and Dredge which I'm tempted to just ignore. I might put the deck down for awhile tho, my shop is starting to get some whir decks popping up and that matchup is just not fun.
Hey guys, I've been playing burn for awhile and noticed the new bolt that got spoiled so I came to check up on you all. My first initial impressions are this. One mana for 3 is the core of the deck. If the deck could be 20 lands and 40 lightning bolt it would with maybe 6-8 flex spots. So this card seems like a 4-of. obviously spectacle isn't a free activation but I think it would be on enough of the time to justify it as at least equal in power to rift bolt. I do think I would cut skullcracks and put them into the sideboard, but that's because I have lots of room since I personally don't run graveyard hate. Otherwise, I think boros charm is the cut. I'm not impressed with the card. It makes it hard to double spell early on and sometimes down the road, and unless you're playing against fetchland deck, it doesn't change the math. It certainly isn't better than our 1 mana spells, and lightning helix is necessary for racing and surviving the creature matchups. So if you have the sideboard room then I'd cut skullcracks but if not I'd cut the boros charms and lavamancer. Lavamancer isn't great anymore because spirits is the most popular vial deck now and it laughs at lavamancer. In fact, with this lower curve I might even consider cutting some charms and putting in 2 copies of shard volley.
I think there's now two viable builds. Boros and Rakdos. Rakdos has to figure out the sideboard but with getting the new bolt, it offers a replacement for helix and charm now so I will begin testing a list. Also Naya if you don't care about starting on 14 most games.
Hey guys. I've been playing a lot of Eldrazi Stompy over the last 2 years or so and recently have been thinking of adding a color to the deck. I've pretty much ran through all the colors and playtested a bunch but am currently getting the pieces together to go with a mono-white list. The thinking is that Chalice is just no longer the free win generator it used to be, at least in my opinion. Modern is very rock paper scissory right now and at least in my experience the free wins from chalice aren't as often anymore. I rarely play burn or infect and even though the new arclight deck and resurgence of death's shadow are both great for the deck, I think it's time for a new lock piece. And those would be Rest in Peace and Stony Silence. Jordan recently brewed up a rest in peace list that while not generated from this deck per say, still gave me the little bit more motivation I needed to jot down a list. I realized that turn 1 RIP or Stony off of SSG were backbreaking against a larger portion of the top decks currently based off of MTGGoldfish. I think the eldrazi stompy shell is the best stompy deck in the format. I think the eldrazi are just perfect for playing lock permanents asymmetrically and think that Seer and Smasher are the best "3" and "4" drop creatures in the format. Whilst Scourge and Reshaper are very resistant to removal. The deck isn't worth playing without temple and Powder is still the most consistent way to start with it. So, I figured the best thing to do was to simply add color to the manabase and exchange chalices for the other lock pieces.
Some thoughts: So i didn't dump chalice, because honestly I don't think it's worth it at first. If I were to dump it, it'd probably go to more removal like Path to Exile. Maybe some in the board for the spirits and human matchups since chalice is coming out. Also, Thalias should be in here over Reshaper but not sure if they should be Thalia, Guardian of Thraben or Thalia, Heretic Cathar. White also gives us better enchantment and artifact removal in the sideboard which I haven't finished yet. Also gives us access to sweepers but not sure if Wrath of God is good here. Horizon Canopy and Void together seem like total gas but since I'm still testing I don't know if this manabase is optimal. I'll miss ghost quarters and more creature lands but not too much I don't think.
Heres what I think this list solves. I think it gives us better removal against the vial-aggro decks. I think it replaces chalice well in the matchups where chalice is a dud. I think rest in peace and stony silence grant more free wins in the current meta than chalice does. I think this list makes tron a free win almost because chalice on the draw turn 1 was often too slow. I think that the improved sideboard gives the deck better options against it's bad matchups and I think canopy in addition to void help mitigate some of the dead draw issues that a deck like this has.
The first big issue besides potential manabase issues that comes to mind, is the fact that the deck might want to prioritize white mana turn 1 instead of temple in certain matchups or hands in order to cast turn 1 lock piece. This could make eldrazi mimic awkward. However, I don't think this will be a big issue because temple is more about turn 3 seer and 4 smasher rather than turn 1 mimic. Mimic comes out a lot and unlike chalice, RIP and Stony are very good turn 2 as well against a lot of decks still.
Sorry if anyone disapproves of this list going here but this is a natural evolution for me from the colorless list and is fundamentally the same idea IMO just a different interpretation. Any ideas or comments about the list or my reasoning is much appreciated. I love eldrazi and want to create the best version I can and take down tournaments with!
You're definitely right in hindsight, it was probably just nerves. Either way my thought process was to trick him, I figured he didn't want the meddling mage to die and get boros charmed so I figured I'd just attack in and see if I could trick him into not blocking and then kill him on the spot right there. I was just taking a risk. I don't really have a reasoning behind it other than than "if he doesn't block he will die on the spot." Yes, the mage on the field at that time was a 3/3.
Hey guys, first time posting in this thread I believe but just wanted to give you all a good report I supposed and some thoughts. I played in an IQ this Sunday and went into top 8 with the number one spot but lost in the first round of top 8 unfortunately. Here was the decklist.
So I run the Boros version because I decided I don't care about enchantments. The only changes I would've made is I would've ran a second path over the fourth chained but I didn't have an extra non-foil copy of path available. Either way here is the report.
Round 1 Amulet Titan 2-1
Game 1 I bolt two Sakura-Tribe Scout turn 2 to avoid instant death and my opponent never finds enough lands to naturally titan so I easily win from there. Game 2 he had 2 amulets turn 2 so that was that. Game 3 I start with guide and eidolon and he ends up taking 6 damage from eidolon triggers and he scoops it up turn 3 I believe. I don't remember how I sideboarded but I didn't cut eidolons on the play or draw I don't think.
Round 2 Burn 2-0
Game 1 I just had a better hand than him and I was on the play. Game 2 I was stuck on two lands but had 3 helixes in a row to put things to an end. He was Naya but he brought his stomping ground in tapped so that didn't affect much.
Draw
+ 3 Chained to the Rocks
+ 3 Searing Blood
+ 2 Skullcrack
- 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
- 4 Boros Charm
Round 3 UW Control 1-2
I punted game 1 because I did math wrong, I had the kill but played boros charm into a counter first when I should've used a 3 damage spell. Game 2 my opponent is at 1 life and plays a land into Zo-Zu not thinking and dies to the trigger. Game 3 I drew 9 lands and he started fatesealing me with Jace. So whoohoo
Opponent gets a game loss for tardiness. Game 2 they have the nuts with 2 Bloodghast and 2 Prized Amalgam with a Conflagrate for 6 same turn. Game 3 I just was too fast and opponent kept a hand with no dredgers. I was lucky, I choose not to run grave hate and should've lost this round if not for my opponent showing up late.
Play
+ 4 Chained to the Rocks
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 2 Skullcrack
- 2 Grim Lavamancer
- 4 Boros Charm
- 1 Lava Spike
Draw
+ 4 Chained to the Rocks
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 2 Skullcrack
-4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
-2 Grim Lavamancer
-1 Boros Charm
Round 5 Humans 2-1
This was a tight match. Game 1 he gets there and I just can't keep up. I sputtered out and he just kept drawing gas. Game 2 I just went HAM on him with 3 lands and a whole hand of burn he couldn't keep up. Game 3 was close. I had tons of removal but he had Kitesail Freebooter 2 Meddling MagesSin Collector and 2 Mantis Rider throughout this game and all I had was my lowly Swiftspear who survived the whole game from turn 1. Early on I just kept killing all of his creatures with burn and removal and stacking up swiftspear triggers. I had to bolt both riders to survive so i didnt have much burn. hes at 8 life and I have a lava spike and boros charm and bolt He has a meddling mage on the boros charm and a Noble Hierarch. I'm at 4. I swing with swiftspear, he blocks with mage, i bolt the mage, and lava spike him to 5 and pass. His turn he plays another meddling mage on boros charm {he knows it's in my hand} and swings with the hierarch to put me at 2 (it had a counter from Thalia's Lieutenant) I figure I'm dead, no idea what I can draw to do enough damage to end it. Except I had the perfect card. Searing Blood off the top. I stare at his life total and his one meddling mage blocker, and no cards in hand and go "oh my god." I play the searing blood and say "trigger" my opponent just stares at the board in disbelief.
Play
+ 4 Chained to the Rocks
+ 4 Searing Blood
- 4 Boros Charm
- 2 Rift Bolt
- 2 Skullcrack
Draw
+ 4 Chained to the Rocks
+ 4 Searing Blood
- 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
- 2 Skullcrack
- 2 Boros Charm
Top 8 Hardened Scales 0-2
I lost gloriously with a 4 lander on the play and my opponent was able to assemble 10 infect on turn 3 or 4. Game 2 I kept (Mountain, Goblin Guide, Bolt, Bolt, Path, Smash to Smithereens, Searing Blood) I couldn't pass it up, and didn't draw a land until turn 4 or so and lost to a swing for 30+ oh well friends, this was the first IQ i ever went to and I couldn't be happier. Burn was so much fun, and I can't get enough of just mauling people's creatures.
Just wanted to say thanks Jordan for the control guide on the nexus. I'll study the thing as much as I can and just keep practicing. I've got some good control players at my lgs and I'll just force them to jam games with me haha. I don't really want to waste money on caverns anyways haha
Opponent received a game loss for tardiness then they won on the play and i won on the play game 3 on the back of turn one endless one for 2 and another endless one for 4. Copter won me the game because he actually titaned me to wipe my board but with scourge and copter he had no way to stop the copter from coming in the air for exactsies.
Round 2: Jeskai Control 1-2
I just can't beat control with any regularity anymore. Guess I just suck, might go for cavern of souls just because I can't figure out what to do when my spells get countered every turn. Teferi is a beating.
Round 3: U/W Control 1-2
Same as previous game. I just don't know how to beat control anymore. I can aggressively mulligan to Eternal scourge and relic but this match i had to mulligan to 4 and just bricked every draw step afterwards.
Round 4: RG Titanshift 2-0
Game 1 I just had the perfect curve. Mimic, Seer, Smasher. That's that. Game 2, I had 3 Seers in a row starting turn 2.
Round 5: Jeskai Tempo? 2-0
This was a jeskai deck that stopped at Cryptic Command. No Teferis or Jaces but it did have colonnades. Had two eternal scourges both games and opponent just ran out of resources trying to stop them.
Round 6: Gifts Storm 2-0
This was against the Starcitygames writer Emma Handy. The name sounded familiar but I didn't know what from until I saw her playing storm. Then I remembered her primer. Either way, Storm is almost a free win with this deck and I noticed she was frustrated enough after the match that she posted on twitter about colorless eldrazi haha.
Round 7: Humans 1-2
Game 1 he mulliganed to 5 and just couldn't keep up with my curve. Game 2 I can't remember what happened actually but I lost. Game 3 I had him under control but kept drawing dismembers at 4 life and couldn't get the last kill spell to make a lethal attack. I had two copters which was lethal but he topdecked the mantis rider and threatened lethal so i had to block with one to save me and it was over after that.
Round 8: Jund 0-2
I had started to get a headache before the humans match and by this point it was throbbing. I misplayed badly since I couldn't pay attention and honestly don't remember much from this match. I swung all in for lethal at one point and he revealed the bolt he'd been holding on to for awhile to unsummon my scourge through a chalice and then killed me on the crackback game 1.
All in all I had a lot of fun. I feel good about the decision to put in the endless ones and I never had issues with the extra removal spell mainboard. I just need to figure out how to beat control. I get the idea of baiting counterspells but if I can only cast one spell a turn and they have a counter for every turn I don't know what to do. Control has gotten so much power from teferi and terminus just makes it worse. I know a lot of people don't have any issues with control even still but I suck so I'm gonna think about getting caverns so I can have the free win against control again. Either way though, even if I'm unable to get decent results with this deck, eldrazi are my favorite creatures in magic since I started and I'll always feel an urge to sleeve these bad boys up.
Yeah I think I'm just reaching with the endbringer since I don't have much time to test before the open. I think I'm gonna take the endbringer and reshapers for 2 endless one and a spatial contortion. I think I want one more removal spell mainboard.
This is the same as Jordan's list as I don't disagree with him on much. I can't let go of the 23rd land though. I tried and just couldn't draw enough lands to do anything a lot of the time. I'm trying an endbringer because I haven't yet and because I suspect bridge will be present a lot and don't want to auto lose to it against burn and the like. Plus, I'm just not impressed with Matter Reshaper anymore and just didn't want to have 3. I don't know what else is better in the one of slot but I've been trying endbringer out. Having a lot of issues with tron so I cut a grounds for a 4th quarter. Sideboard reflects that too with the 2nd spyglass. Having trouble with terminus online as well so I need extra help against control so spyglass stays. I think this is plenty of removal for humans and the like. Is Turn 1 chalice worth keeping against tron on the draw? I know it can destroy them if they keep a hand full of cantrips and the like but that's hardly the case for me in my experiences against them. They seem to always have it by turn 4 on the play with or without the chalice.
Maybe endless one is better as a one of? I don't think so. I think endbringer has a lot more random upside but I'm just not feeling matter reshaper anymore and maybe it's just skewed cuz of all the tron, combo, and UW control I'm playing but that's probably a lot more of the meta now than it once was so I feel like reshaper needs to be something else right now. Atleast just the 3rd one.
I've read them all I believe and they've definitely helped. But it hasn't fixed my streakiness. I can't get any amount of consistency with the deck. Now I did lose about 6 matches because I got stuck on two or 1 land which could just be MTGO being ridiculous. In paper though it's kind of the same. I don't get blown out as often as online but It's average most times with the occasional free win. Which would be fine for me but not when I see the results other people are getting. I'm a newer player, and this deck is my first full non budget deck but I can't seem to improve any with it. I think I have a good understanding of the game and format at this point but maybe not. My only other deck is burn which I 4-1 and 5-0 with left and right but that isn't really the hardest to play so maybe I just haven't developed the decision making necessary for this deck yet.
Honestly I'm not as high on this deck as much as I used to be. It's just so streaky. I'm losing so many games because of inability to draw lands at certain times, mulliganing to 4, and I feel as though I either destroy my opponent or do nothing for 5 turns until i die slowly. I know people are having success with it and I've seen it work wonders for me but it's just not fun when I'm just losing games left and right without much to do about it. I'll admit it's probably because I just suck or don't get the deck but I don't know if there's anymore growth to be had with me and this deck. I'm not ready to drop it just yet, but I'm probably going to do a big overhaul on the lands and sideboard maybe to suit the deck to address the issues I constantly face. I just don't see the constant winning and steamrolling other people seem to have with this deck, and I'm not sure how to improve or learn more. I'll share my experiences or thinking of different matchups and see if anyone else can find the flaws in my thinking.
Humans- Havent actually played this matchup often but I think just focusing on removal and hitting your landrops will get the job done so long as they dont draw too many reflector mages, images and mantis riders. I haven't played enough to give more on it thought.
Burn- honestly this and mardu are the only decks where I feel confident to destroy them anymore. even without chalices, our creatures outclass theres and thought knot rips apart shaky hands.
Mardu- just scourge, relic, and removal. I havent had any issues with this deck.
Tron- turn one chalice on the play or hope they dont have turn 3 tron. This match feels so out of hand. If they dont draw a payoff and have turn 3 tron then it's favorable for me but otherwise mimic into thought knot is necessary which isn't always the case.
Naya/bant midrange decks- these are the most frustrating matchups. These fair decks that just play a creature each turn or ramp are just too much unless i can get an aggressive hand like temple/mimic/seer/smasher. Otherwise Im just playing a 3/3 or 3/2 each turn and just waiting to draw lands or smashers while they just go all value town on me.
Death's shadow- the ones with counterspells are super hard for me. It's just can I get chalice online and not get stubborn denialed when I need to win the game.
Control- UW is the hardest but unless they get terminus I'm usually pretty good. Jeskai is a joke. esper and grixis are similar. These and the company decks are the ones where missing the landrops hurts so bad.
Jund/Abzan- depends on how our hands line up. early reshaper or scourge into thought knot or smasher is usually good enough unless they've got their perfect curve.
Combo- titanshift is supposed to be bad and ironworks is all about getting your hate. Storm is the same.
Bogles/infect- just draw interaction and I'm good.
Maybe all of this is way too brief or unspecific to be of use but I don't want to blather on forever to noone. I can admit that I'm probably just bad but just telling myself I suck doesn't help because I can't figure out why I do. I think I'm gonna mess with adding more lands to the deck and changing up my sideboard. If that doesn't work then I will just have to move on and accept that this deck isn't for me.
I'll ask this though, am I right in my thinking of Mimic? I take it out against all bolt and push decks except for titanshift and burn. The card is meant to pressure decks that try to go overtop of us. It's good against UW because path is valuable if used on mimic because its less removal for seer and smasher and free ramp. It's bad against the company decks or value town decks because it doesn't have trample and for it to be useful I need to be chaining seers and smashers which would win me the game probably anyways. Mimic comes out against bolt, push, go wide with blockers. Do you all take out Mimic against infect, or does something else come out for the removal? That would answer a lot of my questions too.
Just 5-0ed the first modern competitive league I've joined :D. It was pretty smooth sailing. I decided to buy into MTGO so I could practice the deck whenever I wanted so I could get ready for the open. BTW, anyone have advice on how to not spend anymore money on MTGO and just use league and challenge prizes to make more decks? I don't really understand the system but I would assume I can turn my prizes into other modern decks.
(2-1) Bridgevine
I recognized the deck as I had just been looking at it the day before. My opponent stumbled because I cheesed them with a Chalice on zero to cut off bridge from below. I won from there with multiple thought-knots. Game 2 he just had too much and I kept drawing lands. Game 3 came down to the wire, he had 2 vengevines in the grave but kept whiffing while I just kept drawing gas after the board stalled a bit.
(2-0) Grixis Death's Shadow
Won game 1 off of no blockers from my opponent with two scourges pinging them. I dropped the chalice the turn before I won and shut them down, would've had me next turn cuz my opponent had the shadow and battle rage along with a bolt. Game 2 I had turn two thought-knot and stripped a kiln fiend which was there only creature. They didn't draw anything the rest of the game while I beat them down.
(2-0) Skred
Turn 1 Scourge off of temple and guide. They couldn't deal with it. Game 2 same thing except I had to play around them exiling my scourges and keeping me from killing two Sarkhans in a row. Was holding up dismember all game and nabbed the Glorybringer and swung in uninterrupted. Not sure if I should keep chalice. Skred and Bolt aren't really worrisome but Relic doesn't do much either besides draw a card. I can't remember what I sided in and out. Idk if removing mimics is the right call either. It's a game that can go either way I assume and the dragons threw me off cuz that's not traditional skred.
(2-0) Bogles
Hell yeah, auto win baby. Game 1 turn one chalice on the play, they had nothing but a spiritdancer and I wailed on them. Game 2 I bring in 4 ratchet bombs to go with the chalices and smush them. They get underneath chalice and disenchant it. They get low on cards with no real pressure so I chalice on two to stop their money enchantments and just keep swinging over and over til I won.
(2-0) UW control
Got off scourge early and we kept trading resources til we were at 20 and 18 life and low on cards. I drew manlands and finished him off super slow through two jaces. Almost lost because I knew they had entreat the angels and they brainstormed with Jace. I was holding up ghost quarter for collonade all day and almost tapped out for something else before I realized I need to shuffle their deck. They didn't decline the shuffle so I assume they either didn't do it or didn't realize. Game 2 I got an early mimic down and my opponent kept a hand with two teferis and removal. I spyglassed them and shut off teferi and for some reason they decline to field of ruin my temple so I slow rolled a smasher until I knew it was safe. They dealt with my first smasher and copter so I just sandbagged another smasher i drew all game and took the slow plays. This is something I've learned to do against control. Just keeping attacking and passing don't run anything into counter magic. Playing burn has helped me understand this a lot. Anyways, they tap out for teferi even though they can't use them and I cast smasher and swing for 10 for exactsies. No idea, guess the opponent assumed I had nothing. They weren't playing lands so I assume they were drawing action but whatever. Just happy with my finish
The more and more I play this deck, the more I realize Eternal Scourge is broken. Beating control decks with one freaking creature is insane. Honestly, if I ever decide to get into legacy I'll probably jam this list with more sol lands and see what it can do. With as much interaction as there is in legacy I assume scourge would be great but the players I've talked to aren't sure. Oh well, one day I'll try.
Also, Damping Sphere has been MVP for me. I was skeptical at first about it but honestly it's better against tron than Spyglass and it eats amulet titan alive too. Mimic into Damping Sphere is probably the best thing the deck can do against either of those strategies.
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Spatial Contortion
1 Gut Shot
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Damping Sphere
This is the sideboard I run at my shop. My shop is heavy on rock variants, death's shadow, and control. I think the dredge matchup is pretty easy with this setup and wouldn't recommend leylines over relic because of what you lose against rock. I think two damping sphere is necessary for its effects on tron, amulet, and phoenix. I think the flex spots here are the spyglasses. Tron's threat diversity is too wide imo for this to be effective. O-stone is the best card to name but I think you're better off damping them or cheesing them with quarter or surgical. It's also good against control but I feel like U/W Terminus is just too bad of a matchup anymore that you just gotta hope they don't have it. It's also such a small portion of the metagame that I just hope to dodge. Jeskai you don't need them. Whenever I take this to a big event I just swap out the spyglasses for something else depending on what I expect to face. I'm not on karn yet simply because I don't really face the problem decks (bridge, scales, etc) that karn is going to help against. Once he comes into the picture I'm not sure what I'll do.
I have issues with control (without caverns), amulet titan, scapeshift (I haven't lost to it tho in the last 5 times I've played against it), Dredge (I assume haven't played it), hardened scales, Tron (I go on streaks back and forth), Whir/Lantern, and I'm not sure about the spirits/humans matchup, i feel like its a blowout either way each time I play against them. Sometimes I kill everything on sight and other times I get run over. Also for me Grixis Shadow always counters/blows up chalice and proceeds to murder me. Traverse is easy tho.
Also to anyone who hasn't tried it, torpor orb is a house. I removed ratchet bomb because it was underperforming for me. The bridge decks anymore will shut it down immediately and it's been too slow for me against humans and spirits. Torpor orb not only makes humans and spirits bad, but it also stops the new pod deck, elves, and amulet titan if they can't remove it. It's done much better for me in testing than ratchet bomb had. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't torpor orb also stop amalgam triggers?
L Spirits 0-2
W Jund 2-1
L Tron 1-2
W Jeskai 2-1
L Grixis Whir 1-2
W Jund 2-1
L Kiki Combo (possibly pod) 0-2
I was salty at first because I didn't get to play any of the most popular decks but I felt good about how I did because I won every winnable matchup. Spirits got me because no removal game one and game two double drogskol lock. I lost to T3 Tron 2 games in a row which I can't really stop since I took the spyglasses out of the side. Whir is just unwinnable, game 3 almost got him with mimic, seer taking bridge but he topdecked another. Kiki oombo just rushed me game 1 I didn't have enough removal and game 2 I misread a card and died because of it. I can't personally vouch for Leyline because I haven't got any to play with but I can say Relic is integral to beating the fair control and midrange decks imo. Im currently doing a 3/3 split of Relic and Ravenous Trap but I haven't played against dredge yet to know if it's even worth it. I know relic certainly isn't enough for dredge but Idk if it's worth fighting over. I dont think you need graveyard hate beyond relic against anything besides Bridgvine and Dredge which I'm tempted to just ignore. I might put the deck down for awhile tho, my shop is starting to get some whir decks popping up and that matchup is just not fun.
I think there's now two viable builds. Boros and Rakdos. Rakdos has to figure out the sideboard but with getting the new bolt, it offers a replacement for helix and charm now so I will begin testing a list. Also Naya if you don't care about starting on 14 most games.
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eternal Scourge
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Non-Creature Spells 14
4 Serum Powder
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dismember
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Zhalfirin Void
2 Wastes
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Shefet Dunes
2 Plains
2 Mutavault
4 Rest in Peace
4 Stony Silence
Some thoughts: So i didn't dump chalice, because honestly I don't think it's worth it at first. If I were to dump it, it'd probably go to more removal like Path to Exile. Maybe some in the board for the spirits and human matchups since chalice is coming out. Also, Thalias should be in here over Reshaper but not sure if they should be Thalia, Guardian of Thraben or Thalia, Heretic Cathar. White also gives us better enchantment and artifact removal in the sideboard which I haven't finished yet. Also gives us access to sweepers but not sure if Wrath of God is good here. Horizon Canopy and Void together seem like total gas but since I'm still testing I don't know if this manabase is optimal. I'll miss ghost quarters and more creature lands but not too much I don't think.
Heres what I think this list solves. I think it gives us better removal against the vial-aggro decks. I think it replaces chalice well in the matchups where chalice is a dud. I think rest in peace and stony silence grant more free wins in the current meta than chalice does. I think this list makes tron a free win almost because chalice on the draw turn 1 was often too slow. I think that the improved sideboard gives the deck better options against it's bad matchups and I think canopy in addition to void help mitigate some of the dead draw issues that a deck like this has.
The first big issue besides potential manabase issues that comes to mind, is the fact that the deck might want to prioritize white mana turn 1 instead of temple in certain matchups or hands in order to cast turn 1 lock piece. This could make eldrazi mimic awkward. However, I don't think this will be a big issue because temple is more about turn 3 seer and 4 smasher rather than turn 1 mimic. Mimic comes out a lot and unlike chalice, RIP and Stony are very good turn 2 as well against a lot of decks still.
Sorry if anyone disapproves of this list going here but this is a natural evolution for me from the colorless list and is fundamentally the same idea IMO just a different interpretation. Any ideas or comments about the list or my reasoning is much appreciated. I love eldrazi and want to create the best version I can and take down tournaments with!
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Helix
2 Skullcrack
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Inspiring Vantage
3 Sacred Foundry
5 Mountain
1 Path to Exile
4 Searing Blood
2 Skullcrack
1 Shattering Spree
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sudden Shock
1 Zo-Zu The Punisher
So I run the Boros version because I decided I don't care about enchantments. The only changes I would've made is I would've ran a second path over the fourth chained but I didn't have an extra non-foil copy of path available. Either way here is the report.
Round 1 Amulet Titan 2-1
Game 1 I bolt two Sakura-Tribe Scout turn 2 to avoid instant death and my opponent never finds enough lands to naturally titan so I easily win from there. Game 2 he had 2 amulets turn 2 so that was that. Game 3 I start with guide and eidolon and he ends up taking 6 damage from eidolon triggers and he scoops it up turn 3 I believe. I don't remember how I sideboarded but I didn't cut eidolons on the play or draw I don't think.
Round 2 Burn 2-0
Game 1 I just had a better hand than him and I was on the play. Game 2 I was stuck on two lands but had 3 helixes in a row to put things to an end. He was Naya but he brought his stomping ground in tapped so that didn't affect much.
Draw
+ 3 Chained to the Rocks
+ 3 Searing Blood
+ 2 Skullcrack
- 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
- 4 Boros Charm
Round 3 UW Control 1-2
I punted game 1 because I did math wrong, I had the kill but played boros charm into a counter first when I should've used a 3 damage spell. Game 2 my opponent is at 1 life and plays a land into Zo-Zu not thinking and dies to the trigger. Game 3 I drew 9 lands and he started fatesealing me with Jace. So whoohoo
Play/Draw
+ 2 Skullcrack
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 1 Sudden Shock
+ 1 Zo-Zu The Punisher
- 4 Goblin Guide
- 1 Lightning Helix
Round 4 Dredge 2-1
Opponent gets a game loss for tardiness. Game 2 they have the nuts with 2 Bloodghast and 2 Prized Amalgam with a Conflagrate for 6 same turn. Game 3 I just was too fast and opponent kept a hand with no dredgers. I was lucky, I choose not to run grave hate and should've lost this round if not for my opponent showing up late.
Play
+ 4 Chained to the Rocks
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 2 Skullcrack
- 2 Grim Lavamancer
- 4 Boros Charm
- 1 Lava Spike
Draw
+ 4 Chained to the Rocks
+ 1 Path to Exile
+ 2 Skullcrack
-4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
-2 Grim Lavamancer
-1 Boros Charm
Round 5 Humans 2-1
This was a tight match. Game 1 he gets there and I just can't keep up. I sputtered out and he just kept drawing gas. Game 2 I just went HAM on him with 3 lands and a whole hand of burn he couldn't keep up. Game 3 was close. I had tons of removal but he had Kitesail Freebooter 2 Meddling Mages Sin Collector and 2 Mantis Rider throughout this game and all I had was my lowly Swiftspear who survived the whole game from turn 1. Early on I just kept killing all of his creatures with burn and removal and stacking up swiftspear triggers. I had to bolt both riders to survive so i didnt have much burn. hes at 8 life and I have a lava spike and boros charm and bolt He has a meddling mage on the boros charm and a Noble Hierarch. I'm at 4. I swing with swiftspear, he blocks with mage, i bolt the mage, and lava spike him to 5 and pass. His turn he plays another meddling mage on boros charm {he knows it's in my hand} and swings with the hierarch to put me at 2 (it had a counter from Thalia's Lieutenant) I figure I'm dead, no idea what I can draw to do enough damage to end it. Except I had the perfect card. Searing Blood off the top. I stare at his life total and his one meddling mage blocker, and no cards in hand and go "oh my god." I play the searing blood and say "trigger" my opponent just stares at the board in disbelief.
Play
+ 4 Chained to the Rocks
+ 4 Searing Blood
- 4 Boros Charm
- 2 Rift Bolt
- 2 Skullcrack
Draw
+ 4 Chained to the Rocks
+ 4 Searing Blood
- 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
- 2 Skullcrack
- 2 Boros Charm
Top 8 Hardened Scales 0-2
I lost gloriously with a 4 lander on the play and my opponent was able to assemble 10 infect on turn 3 or 4. Game 2 I kept (Mountain, Goblin Guide, Bolt, Bolt, Path, Smash to Smithereens, Searing Blood) I couldn't pass it up, and didn't draw a land until turn 4 or so and lost to a swing for 30+ oh well friends, this was the first IQ i ever went to and I couldn't be happier. Burn was so much fun, and I can't get enough of just mauling people's creatures.
Round 1: RG Titanshift 2-1
Opponent received a game loss for tardiness then they won on the play and i won on the play game 3 on the back of turn one endless one for 2 and another endless one for 4. Copter won me the game because he actually titaned me to wipe my board but with scourge and copter he had no way to stop the copter from coming in the air for exactsies.
Round 2: Jeskai Control 1-2
I just can't beat control with any regularity anymore. Guess I just suck, might go for cavern of souls just because I can't figure out what to do when my spells get countered every turn. Teferi is a beating.
Round 3: U/W Control 1-2
Same as previous game. I just don't know how to beat control anymore. I can aggressively mulligan to Eternal scourge and relic but this match i had to mulligan to 4 and just bricked every draw step afterwards.
Round 4: RG Titanshift 2-0
Game 1 I just had the perfect curve. Mimic, Seer, Smasher. That's that. Game 2, I had 3 Seers in a row starting turn 2.
Round 5: Jeskai Tempo? 2-0
This was a jeskai deck that stopped at Cryptic Command. No Teferis or Jaces but it did have colonnades. Had two eternal scourges both games and opponent just ran out of resources trying to stop them.
Round 6: Gifts Storm 2-0
This was against the Starcitygames writer Emma Handy. The name sounded familiar but I didn't know what from until I saw her playing storm. Then I remembered her primer. Either way, Storm is almost a free win with this deck and I noticed she was frustrated enough after the match that she posted on twitter about colorless eldrazi haha.
Round 7: Humans 1-2
Game 1 he mulliganed to 5 and just couldn't keep up with my curve. Game 2 I can't remember what happened actually but I lost. Game 3 I had him under control but kept drawing dismembers at 4 life and couldn't get the last kill spell to make a lethal attack. I had two copters which was lethal but he topdecked the mantis rider and threatened lethal so i had to block with one to save me and it was over after that.
Round 8: Jund 0-2
I had started to get a headache before the humans match and by this point it was throbbing. I misplayed badly since I couldn't pay attention and honestly don't remember much from this match. I swung all in for lethal at one point and he revealed the bolt he'd been holding on to for awhile to unsummon my scourge through a chalice and then killed me on the crackback game 1.
All in all I had a lot of fun. I feel good about the decision to put in the endless ones and I never had issues with the extra removal spell mainboard. I just need to figure out how to beat control. I get the idea of baiting counterspells but if I can only cast one spell a turn and they have a counter for every turn I don't know what to do. Control has gotten so much power from teferi and terminus just makes it worse. I know a lot of people don't have any issues with control even still but I suck so I'm gonna think about getting caverns so I can have the free win against control again. Either way though, even if I'm unable to get decent results with this deck, eldrazi are my favorite creatures in magic since I started and I'll always feel an urge to sleeve these bad boys up.
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Eternal Scourge
2 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Noncreature Spells: 12
4 Serum Powder
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dismember
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Zhalfirin Void
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Mutavault
2 Gemstone Caverns
2 Wastes
1 Scavenger Grounds
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Gut Shot
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Gemstone Caverns
This is the same as Jordan's list as I don't disagree with him on much. I can't let go of the 23rd land though. I tried and just couldn't draw enough lands to do anything a lot of the time. I'm trying an endbringer because I haven't yet and because I suspect bridge will be present a lot and don't want to auto lose to it against burn and the like. Plus, I'm just not impressed with Matter Reshaper anymore and just didn't want to have 3. I don't know what else is better in the one of slot but I've been trying endbringer out. Having a lot of issues with tron so I cut a grounds for a 4th quarter. Sideboard reflects that too with the 2nd spyglass. Having trouble with terminus online as well so I need extra help against control so spyglass stays. I think this is plenty of removal for humans and the like. Is Turn 1 chalice worth keeping against tron on the draw? I know it can destroy them if they keep a hand full of cantrips and the like but that's hardly the case for me in my experiences against them. They seem to always have it by turn 4 on the play with or without the chalice.
Maybe endless one is better as a one of? I don't think so. I think endbringer has a lot more random upside but I'm just not feeling matter reshaper anymore and maybe it's just skewed cuz of all the tron, combo, and UW control I'm playing but that's probably a lot more of the meta now than it once was so I feel like reshaper needs to be something else right now. Atleast just the 3rd one.
Humans- Havent actually played this matchup often but I think just focusing on removal and hitting your landrops will get the job done so long as they dont draw too many reflector mages, images and mantis riders. I haven't played enough to give more on it thought.
Burn- honestly this and mardu are the only decks where I feel confident to destroy them anymore. even without chalices, our creatures outclass theres and thought knot rips apart shaky hands.
Mardu- just scourge, relic, and removal. I havent had any issues with this deck.
Tron- turn one chalice on the play or hope they dont have turn 3 tron. This match feels so out of hand. If they dont draw a payoff and have turn 3 tron then it's favorable for me but otherwise mimic into thought knot is necessary which isn't always the case.
Naya/bant midrange decks- these are the most frustrating matchups. These fair decks that just play a creature each turn or ramp are just too much unless i can get an aggressive hand like temple/mimic/seer/smasher. Otherwise Im just playing a 3/3 or 3/2 each turn and just waiting to draw lands or smashers while they just go all value town on me.
Death's shadow- the ones with counterspells are super hard for me. It's just can I get chalice online and not get stubborn denialed when I need to win the game.
Control- UW is the hardest but unless they get terminus I'm usually pretty good. Jeskai is a joke. esper and grixis are similar. These and the company decks are the ones where missing the landrops hurts so bad.
Jund/Abzan- depends on how our hands line up. early reshaper or scourge into thought knot or smasher is usually good enough unless they've got their perfect curve.
Combo- titanshift is supposed to be bad and ironworks is all about getting your hate. Storm is the same.
Bogles/infect- just draw interaction and I'm good.
Maybe all of this is way too brief or unspecific to be of use but I don't want to blather on forever to noone. I can admit that I'm probably just bad but just telling myself I suck doesn't help because I can't figure out why I do. I think I'm gonna mess with adding more lands to the deck and changing up my sideboard. If that doesn't work then I will just have to move on and accept that this deck isn't for me.
I'll ask this though, am I right in my thinking of Mimic? I take it out against all bolt and push decks except for titanshift and burn. The card is meant to pressure decks that try to go overtop of us. It's good against UW because path is valuable if used on mimic because its less removal for seer and smasher and free ramp. It's bad against the company decks or value town decks because it doesn't have trample and for it to be useful I need to be chaining seers and smashers which would win me the game probably anyways. Mimic comes out against bolt, push, go wide with blockers. Do you all take out Mimic against infect, or does something else come out for the removal? That would answer a lot of my questions too.
(2-1) Bridgevine
I recognized the deck as I had just been looking at it the day before. My opponent stumbled because I cheesed them with a Chalice on zero to cut off bridge from below. I won from there with multiple thought-knots. Game 2 he just had too much and I kept drawing lands. Game 3 came down to the wire, he had 2 vengevines in the grave but kept whiffing while I just kept drawing gas after the board stalled a bit.
(2-0) Grixis Death's Shadow
Won game 1 off of no blockers from my opponent with two scourges pinging them. I dropped the chalice the turn before I won and shut them down, would've had me next turn cuz my opponent had the shadow and battle rage along with a bolt. Game 2 I had turn two thought-knot and stripped a kiln fiend which was there only creature. They didn't draw anything the rest of the game while I beat them down.
(2-0) Skred
Turn 1 Scourge off of temple and guide. They couldn't deal with it. Game 2 same thing except I had to play around them exiling my scourges and keeping me from killing two Sarkhans in a row. Was holding up dismember all game and nabbed the Glorybringer and swung in uninterrupted. Not sure if I should keep chalice. Skred and Bolt aren't really worrisome but Relic doesn't do much either besides draw a card. I can't remember what I sided in and out. Idk if removing mimics is the right call either. It's a game that can go either way I assume and the dragons threw me off cuz that's not traditional skred.
(2-0) Bogles
Hell yeah, auto win baby. Game 1 turn one chalice on the play, they had nothing but a spiritdancer and I wailed on them. Game 2 I bring in 4 ratchet bombs to go with the chalices and smush them. They get underneath chalice and disenchant it. They get low on cards with no real pressure so I chalice on two to stop their money enchantments and just keep swinging over and over til I won.
(2-0) UW control
Got off scourge early and we kept trading resources til we were at 20 and 18 life and low on cards. I drew manlands and finished him off super slow through two jaces. Almost lost because I knew they had entreat the angels and they brainstormed with Jace. I was holding up ghost quarter for collonade all day and almost tapped out for something else before I realized I need to shuffle their deck. They didn't decline the shuffle so I assume they either didn't do it or didn't realize. Game 2 I got an early mimic down and my opponent kept a hand with two teferis and removal. I spyglassed them and shut off teferi and for some reason they decline to field of ruin my temple so I slow rolled a smasher until I knew it was safe. They dealt with my first smasher and copter so I just sandbagged another smasher i drew all game and took the slow plays. This is something I've learned to do against control. Just keeping attacking and passing don't run anything into counter magic. Playing burn has helped me understand this a lot. Anyways, they tap out for teferi even though they can't use them and I cast smasher and swing for 10 for exactsies. No idea, guess the opponent assumed I had nothing. They weren't playing lands so I assume they were drawing action but whatever. Just happy with my finish
The more and more I play this deck, the more I realize Eternal Scourge is broken. Beating control decks with one freaking creature is insane. Honestly, if I ever decide to get into legacy I'll probably jam this list with more sol lands and see what it can do. With as much interaction as there is in legacy I assume scourge would be great but the players I've talked to aren't sure. Oh well, one day I'll try.