MTG Salvation

Random question for the thread. Has anyone ever considered, or actually tried, running Dream Salvage as a 1 mana, draw 2-4? Just theory-crafting, but I see a lot of scenarios where you can make your opponent discard 2-4 cards in one turn, especially if you run Augur of Skulls as sort of a "delayed discard" effect. That said, I have very limited experience with the deck, so I wanted to ask the experts

Thanks!

I'm curious, what is everyone's preference on the correct number of fetches to run and why?

I'm certain that 4 Scalding Tarn is correct, but I've seen anywhere between 2 and 4 Arid Mesa. I started with the full 8, but have since cut 2 Arid Mesa because our games tend to go long enough that I would frequently run out of targets and because every fetch reduces the density of land in our deck, and we really want to hit land drops throughout the game.

Thoughts and justifications?

Quote from BentleyBurns »

Alright, I recently obtained a cheap, uncompleted UWR control deck.
What should be my highest priority when going about upgrading it?

The easiest start is probably the shock lands (Hallowed Fountain, Sacred Foundry and Steam Vents). As far as valuable cards are concerned, start with Snapcaster Mage, he's really the lynchpin of the deck. If you're serious about Modern long-term, I might wait until after PTQ season to begin picking cards up, as people may be more willing to part with Modern staples at that point. Also, if this is more of a long-term investment, then you might want to wait on fetch-lands (Arid Mesa and Scalding Tarn). Many speculate that they'll soon be reprinted and right now they're very expensive.

Quote from stokpile »

It's also the reason that I always recommend highly playing a list with 2 resto and 2 clique because they're always good and the help they provide against combo game 1 is invaluable to me.

This is where I've landed too (although I'm on 3 Resto, see my list above). I'm ok with a slot in the board for a finisher against fair decks (Batterskull is my go to) and another for Teferi against combo/control. We're just so tight on sideboard slots we need to really have an excellent reason for each inclusion.

Quote from ktkenshinx »

Hey UWR people,

I'm updating the forum organization for Proven/Established, and want to know what you guys think we should do with UWR Kiki Control variants. Do those decks deserve their own thread (it would be in Established)? Or should that discussion just happen here? UWR Control is solidly proven and isn't going anywhere, but it's a question of what we want to do with the UWR Kiki variant. My guess is that it's similar enough to stay here, but let me know what you all think.

Thanks!

I think of UWR as more of a spectrum of aggressiveness and less as distinct archtypes. The 4 Snap and no other creatures version is at the far end of the control spectrum, and I think UWR Kiki Combo and Flash are at the other end of the control spectrum. They're still control, the gameplan is still card advantage and 1-for-1 trades, but with more robust finishers. For these reasons I would keep both Kiki Combo Control and Flash Control in this forum. Playing Kiki and just jamming the combo without "knowing" if it's going to win you the game is a desperation move that you typically only make when you have no other options. It's still a control deck at heart.

Midrange is different because your gameplan is different. When your gameplan goes from 1-for-1 trades to efficient and difficult to answer threats with 4x Remand to retain tempo, that's when you've transitioned over to midrange.

Quote from stokpile »

For those of you that have been looking for a finisher, but don't want to pull the trigger on going full no kiki combo, just remember that Lightning Angel is still a legal card. There was a uwr deck that ran a full set of 4 in a control shell a while ago (without geist or the other usual suspects) iirc and did fairly well with it. it's a pretty good top deck, good against jund and has the magic 4 toughness. It isn't super sexy or as game ending as other options might be, but is still worth a few thoughts.

Here's the link to the Deck Tech in Wizards' archives. Henry and Marcus Furr built the deck the night before the GP. Henry was flipping through stacks of cards to borrow from Marcus, saw Lightning Angel and immediately decided he was playing it as a 4 of. His reasoning at the time was as an efficient way to combat Jund, which was huge at the time, because it could ambush a Planeswalker and still block. I thought he was crazy, but it worked (until he heartbreakingly lost 3 straight win-and-ins). I think Lightning Angel is good against a midrange/zoo heavy metagame, but against combo it's a bit weaker.

In preparation for PTQs I've played just about every iteration of UWR Control there is, from super-controling with maindeck Crucible of Worlds and Isochron Scepter, to the Kiki-Jiki combo. This is where I've settled.



I landed here for a few reasons. I really like the amount of pressure this deck can apply. Whereas the more controlling versions have a near impossible task against all versions of Tron, this deck can apply just enough pressure and disruption to get there against the UW version. The pressure also helps to avoid unintentional draws (thereby helping you have more intentional draws :)).
The counterspell split in the SB is currently 1 Counterflux and 1 Dispel. I like to bring these in against Scapeshift, UW Tron, Twin and any control mirror. The ability to just win a counter war is a big deal, and these spells help make that possible better than any other mix I've found.
I've added the second Plains over the first Mountain because I hate losing to Blood Moon. In a tournament yesterday I cast a Sphinx's Revelation for 4 on T8 against a Blood Moon resolved on T4 (I did get to crack 1 fetch for a basic). That drew me into a Wear // Tear which took out the Blood Moon and a Torpor Orb. I side aggressively against any deck with Blood Moon, bringing in both Wear // Tear, both Engineered Explosives and the Celestial Purge.
I want to find room somewhere for 1 Anger of the Gods. I've gone back and forth between Wrath of God and Supreme Verdict for the maindeck sweeper slot. In that time I've run into Jund/Pod with Thrun less than I've ran into Twin/UWR Midrange/UR Delver, etc. In my meta I've decided that being uncounterable is more valuable that no regeneration.

This is where I'm at. I like it and will likely run it during PTQs the next few weekends. Please feel free to post questions or comments. I'm open to critique/praise!

Quote from Cipher »

Quote from AlabastorSamurai »

I have never really like remand which is the reason for excluding it I always found it to be one of the first cards that I boarded out and just was never really happy with it - this is just a personal thing it is possible that I am wrong and it is great but in its place I run the third mana leak and the second Shadow of Doubt.

The more I play Remand the more it feels like the best counter in the deck. Calling it a counter is only correct if you're fighting a counter-war; for the most part, it's just a Boomerang for spells that cantrips. People started running it because Think Twice doesn't cut it, and this deck makes up for the lack of card drawing in Modern by running cantrips for deck velocity. I think substituting Shadow of Doubt makes sense, but Mana Leak and Remand aren't really the same type of spell. I Remand on turn 2 like you Azorius Charm on turn 2 in Standard, only Remand sets them back a turn as far as board development is concerned.

I agree, Remand is a beating. I had this happen last night at a $10 buy-in tournament. I was at 1 life with a Snapcaster Mage in play and Bolt, Spell Snare, Remand and Sacred Foundry in hand. My opponent was at 5 life. Both of us have 9 mana open. He cast Snapcaster Mage with a Bolt in his GY. I Snare. He Cryptics choosing counter Snare, draw. I Remand my Snare. Cryptic is countered on resolution. I re-Snare his Snapcaster, he plays Spell Pierce, I pay and Snapcaster hits the bin. Then untap, attack and Bolt.

Remand countered Cryptic and drew a card; which, in this situation (that comes up more often than you would think) basically translated into Remand being a 2 mana Cryptic. In the early game is buys time and draws cards, which is all you really want to be doing in the early game. It draws a card, which provides added value if it's targeted with Snapcaster. Remand has a lot of utility and often does exactly what you need. Remand is good.

Quote from Kadekariwr »

In my list I run a single copy of Banefire, its my "secret weapon", a few burns during the game, a heavy defence position, one or two attacks with collonade and a Banefire for 7, 8 or even more its REALLY unexpected, depending on the game I can even snapcast the Benefire, deadly almost always. Banefire its almost unstopable.
I see the "Banefire strategy" very efficient because its an "one card alternative kill condition", maybe you could test it.

I've been playing the fun-of Banefire for a few weeks now and it has been awesome! Most control players don't care about going to ~8 life off burn spells, and the confusion when Banefire hits is priceless. Can even be Snapped back for the full 20 against some matchups.

Tarn. The extra fetches to fix mana and thin will be more valuable than the two Cryptic. Especially if your manabase is lacking.