The way YGO does it, regular reprints* and have key engine cards at common (Grisly Salvage and Satyr Wayfinder for example). Alongside basic removal i.e things like Lighting Strike, Doom Blade, and then having cross set compatability via basic engine pieces for (Shrine the Forsaken God) at common.
Additionally have plurality of your be set of "playable" commons, cards like Ponder, Preordain. Don't have Matter Reshapers at Rare. They are basic cards. These cards ought to be readily and easily avaliable. Because they are in fact a cornerstone of their respective deck. Likewise for cards like Sylvan Advocate. You should open these and be like "I want to make a land matter deck." Remove the vanilla fillers. Every rare and mythic should do something or be something. They should be generic or for niche strategies, not define the deck. Cards that define the deck (Marvel and Collossus) should be easily acccessible. And mechanics should be workable with older cards (Fate Counters).
However that all stateds card that are format defining (Marvel, Felidar Gaurdian, etc) should be mythic. The point is crack open a pack and not think "What my rare?" It's "let us see what we got, how many of these are usable?". Downfall is fine at rare as long as Doom Blade exists. Additionally the reason why regular reprints are important. The reason you buy singles is that it's cheaper than buying a bunch of packs. However let us say the set had reasonable level of quality playables and you knew in about 6-8 months that desired card be reprinted. Specifically reprinted in an intro deck a big box stores for 12 dollars to demand.
This being a regular and known pattern. So if you own the 40 dollar card via packs before then go on yeah. If not you know you can wait. So reprints depress singles but increase players buying sets. And finally most important of all, because of that rarity trading exists. I have and seen folks trade 20 dollar secrets in Yugioh for 11 dollar ones. Assuming the 11 dollar is reasonably playable. Why? Both players know the 20 dollar card won't hold it value and are willing to trade for a similar rarity.
Making packs worthwhile, is removing the feel bad of looking at the pack and seeing useless chaff.
*Reprint means able to buy it in a fashion that is confirmed pull and a regular and understood pattern
I am just curious how many decks in the entirety of Modern, have placed/top 8 in every major tournament for a six month period? After they had received a ban of some kind.
Warning: YGO Comparison Incoming
For those saying MtG USA and MTG Japan, are sigficantly different because X, Y, and Z, if you accept these differences are from a cultural 'tendency', you can see the difference demostrated more saliently in the YGO Franchise*. The first and foremost difference, is that in Japan, players are more likely to play to win instead of playing to not lose. Second there less organized play in terms of big tournament (in comparison to the the US), so the decks tend to be more unrefined. The primary gaming method is via FNM equivalent. And finally YGO wise, Japan tends to favor big splashy plays over attrition based wins.
Now then that stated, the other reasons in YGO for different metas, is that Japan/OCG is about a pack ahead of the US/TCG. Furthermore the difference comes down to tech choices, Scooze vs Grim Flayer. Japan prefering the Scooze immediate impact over a Flayer filtering. Furthermore, in the top tiers of play these differences have never changed what is good or what is a bad deck. Additionally for two years running, Japan has won worlds, over America. Well more appropriately an OCG Player has won the whole thing. And best decks are still the same regardless of which side of the Pacific you live.
So long story short. If you accept that meta differences translate across card games, at the top teir of competitive play, the meta is exactly the same or very similar.
*There is far more large organized play for MtG than YGO in Japan. Given tournament wise, OCG has only a 2-4 major tournaments, and that is for determining who goes to world. And additionally the meta is difference because they are pack ahead of us (I.E they would be on Akhmonket, we'd be on Aether Revolt). And their ban list is different than the TCG, and is meant to partly enable said splashy plays
I have played Elves thank you very much. When I said Green Merfolk I didn't literally mean they were Merfolk but Green. I meant they a tribal based deck that is Aggro like. It is not a Deck like Mono-Green Devotion or G/R Monsters. I love to play Elves, but if play Elves I want my symbiote.
And second, where did I say they were the same decks? I didn't. I said Decks in modern use a black suite of cards similar to legacy blue suite. Don't draw conclusions where there are none to be had. That is all I said nothing more nothing less. And the deck I want to play is not viable in modern, in the form I want it to be in. The closest equivalent is Jund/Abzan. However I dislike protecting the Castle.
And yes Elves are very similar to Deck I want. Frick I love Archdruid, Visionary, and Symbiote. Or playing Glimpse (or Beck) with Nettle, Imperious and Heritage Druid. However the deck feels to combo for the synergistic green based midrange I want.
Theros-RtR Dredge is a prime example of that Deck. While it had a very black focus. It was fundamentally that style of deck. You play cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Grisly Salvage to load graveyard. Use Nighthowler and Nemesis of Mortals as your beaters and more. When I said "Green Merfolk" would you rather I have said "A color based Tribal Deck that is on the aggressive plan similar to Merfolk but is a lot more Combo and focus on synergistic plays then straight buffing and evasion."
The deck I want is a hybrid between GB/X and Elves ideally. But honestly? I cannot ever really have that style of deck. Because it is unfeasible for wizards to print such a deck. But yes thank you for putting words in my mouth
I was not talking about Jund/Abzan Shadow. I am talking about regular Jund/Abzan. (Through WraithPK applies to either). And as primarily green player, their is not a really a true Green Deck. Elves being Green Merfolk, and Jund/Abzan was Black Based. As a Green Player I enjoy being able to play my stupid creatures. But more importantly I like being able to "play off" the board, or rely on my creatures (Ambush Viper, Reclamation Sage and Pulokranos are great example of the cards I am referring to, as well cards like Domri). Or using cards like Courser to filter my deck.
Trying to do that kind of "Green" primary deck is too slow. The only way as Green player I can play such a Deck competitively is I am being force to hybridized and take a more "defend the castle" stance by using Black. When I want to be laying siege to the Castle, or if not laying siege, not being the one under siege. A pitch battle if you would.
And I was before I devolved, was going to make a point, what Shadow Deck Proves (something we all have already known really) is that Inquisition, and Thoughtseize lesser extent Liliana/Tasigurs are our Brainstorm-Force of Will. (Yes I realize these two cards are not at all similar to brainstorm, only force) They will be this or are this formats literal pillars.
And like every deck in legacy begins with 4 Brainstorm and 4 Force of Will, Modern will always be some combination of 6-8 card discord for anything not fast Combo or straight Aggro.
Yes Memes, such a wonderful response. How about instead of being a prick, answer the question. Or atleast say I won't answer because I think you are being obtuse and dumb.
You claim Grixis Shadow isn't blue because it's of its plurality of the cards in the deck are black. And that it's only blue cards are snappy, thoughtscar, and Stubborn. Maybe Tasigur if we wanted to be generous.
Is traditional GB/x actually Green? When the only green cards are Goyf, Scooze, and a 3-4 card combination of Abrupt and Maelstorm Pulse?
So....? How GB/X is Green where Grixis Shadow is not Blue? What GB/X do that is really green?
....play big creatures? That like saying Blue is just contripping. Green cannot play as a primary color because it lacks interaction to beat Combo. Or uses cards like Beast Within. You can say Grixis is not your style of blue but it most assuredly a blue deck.
It plays contrips to shape hands, has ways to control tempo via cards like Snappy granting flashback. It plays at instant speed mostly to save its discord, and creatures. It seeks to establish a point where it can safely drop its win condition and defend it until you win the game.
(Yes I know that can be used to for GB/X, which is partly the point, if we want to call Grixis Shadow a Black Deck only. We need to call GB/x (traditional) a Black deck)
And GB/X a Green Deck? Because it has 7-12 Green Cards of which about half to a quarter are multi-color? GB/X has had Metagame challenges sense treasure cruise. And then the Eldrazi Era, and then shadow ate it. And several of those eras have had stronger blue decks.
If Grixis Shadow is not blue, (traditional) Jund and Abzan are not green.
I want to add some thoughts on this. The whole question of YGO Reprint policy is important is you follow the Game, it's really easy to make educated guess when cards will be reprinted. There is 6ish year cycle of reprint (espacially true for Anime Iconic Cards that are not from DM).
Even within that cycle their are couple cycles of reprints which are easily recognizable once you know the patterns. The Meta Cards of the Year will be given a reprint, Three Months before Nuetering. To make the decks cheaps for those who want to complete it or collection purposes.
Then non-monsters generic supports (Hero's Downfall or Lighting Bolt closest MtG Equivalents) will depending on necessity, be reprinted in 6 months in that years structures deck (Duel Deck will be closest similarity). Within those decks often times a card not reprinted in years but popular or needing a word update (Ravnica Charms for example) will be reprinted. And in general the money cards of the game that their prices as YGO Goyf.
The prime example of such an event is Trishula and her variants (Ouroboros, and Nekroz of Trish), have steady held a 11-20 despite consistent reprints. For a variety of reasons. I am tired but what I am trying to say if you follow the game it's easy to determine what get reprinted when. And the cards that aren't reprinted (All the Red-Eye cards from last year mega-tin) tell you something else.
They were later reprinted in the TCG Exclusive Product that featured Joey, Yugi and Kaiba. Furthermore it's important to know, the OCG and TCG in terms of reprints are not the same. Notably the TCG (Europe and America's mostly) reprint more often while the OCG tends to be lower rarities on cards and reprints actual sets.
Something else to remember is YGO reprints packs if related support is coming out. Be like if Scars was released, then Original Mirroden was re released (hence why YGO partly has first vs unlimited edition). And finally to get to the topic on hand.
The issue with MtG now I believe, is I don't have a reason to buy packs. To quote a famous chip commercial "you cannot buy just one." And if I spend 20 Dollars on Packs I get 5 packs or so. Let me say I wanted a Rhondas. I got just buy a Rhonda's for 16. Well I could get Rhonda's plus card if I buy packs! Well what if I don't? Furthermore if I don't get the card I wanted, will I get enough good cards to trade for Rhondas?
The answer is likely nay. A community is built around trading cards. It's how you build relationships, in one sense. You all open packs and see what you got. Then see if you got a card someone else wanted. Then you perhaps do on the spot trading. If the buying packs get you so much chaff that you cannot trade any of it too someone reasonable.
Like if I pulled a I don't another card worth 20, for sake of example Grim Flayer is in an Akhmonet. I can reasonable trade that Flayer to a Rhonas. Or perhaps I pulled a couple Path to Exiles (worth 5 each) or a card like Fatal Push. I could trade them for a Rhonas, because while uncommon they have value. Packs need to not garuntee me value but they should garuntee me something to place in my trade binder that someone reasonably would want for whatever reason.
Take Chromaticore or Triskephobia, neither are amazing cards but they are interesting and someone would want them. MtG Packs are getting better at this. But do lack that. I hope this made sense
Spiegal, the homogonizing argument is only made in reference to GSZ/Twin, and while I am saying DRS is comparable to Jace (self contained win condition etc. and (DRS) in combination with Veil stunts any creature deck that plays only 1 Creature a turn. Both are slow win conditions that take a couple turns to get going, and can be removed 'relatively' easily.)
Your focusing on that element i.e Twin and GSZ (and lesser extent Punishing Fire) and ignoring how I am also asking to compare Jace/DRS as part of the 'argument'.
Spiegal, let me rephrase perhaps.
Let us say GB/x decks only had 3-4% of the meta total for around one year. And were utterly in the gutter for a variety of reasons, just like U/X is today.
But U/X Reactive/Permission decks were making up a total of 20% of the meta. So instead of asking for a ban from U/X deck is on top (for sake of discussion let us say Jace or Twin).
They asked for
Deathrite Shamen
Green Sun Zenith*
Punishing Fire
Because it would allow them to compete better vs Aggro decks (DRS and Fire), be a slow win condition that is interactable with (Deathrite, killable by every removal in format), and allows you access to silver bullet your deck (no clean comparison beside homogenizing deck akin to Twin.)
How would you argue that those two/three cards are fundamentally different than Jace/Twin, in terms of coming off the list or why they should remain banned? (Personally as I said in my above post first is Mana Cost, DRS is 1 Mana to Jace 4, and in regards to Punishing Fire vs Twin, they suppress in different ways. GSZ my view if Pod is banned so should GSZ, and Traverse (unless Traverse is shown over next couple months to fade back in obscurity.)
*GSZ is the weakest comparison here, but is the best one I could think of with 'homogenizing' GB/X decks like Twin did for U/X
Wasn't trying to hyperbole; but the argument I hear for and against Jace-
Bad vs Fast Aggro, and Self Contained Win Condition. Deathrite (in combination with Veil) kills decks that only play 1 Creature a turn
Twin is that it was banned for homogenizing Blue Based Deck (just as GSZ, well that and Toolboxing), and preventing experimentation.
I only bring up punishing fire because it was noted as suppressing certain kind of decks (tribal decks), just as twin suppressed decks that lack interaction/tap out T3.
Their are several differences, most notably the Mana cost is very difference. But the argument for why they are banned and why you could want them back (DRS can stay on list, and be fun to see a format or two with Jace in it, for all I care). But the argument I am making-asking how would you draw a distinction as U/X Player if GB/X was in the gutter and asked for those cards back.
I caveat this as a thought experiment those pushing for Twin back and/or Jace; when GB/X decks were going the way of Dodo because of Dig, Cruise, Pod with Rhino, and then followed by Eldrazi Winter, if a GB/X players argued for a return of Elf (Deathrite and BloodBraid), GSZ or depending how you wanted to stretched it Punishing Fire. So they would get their proper meta share back. Would you have said "No to strong (Deathrite)", "Remove/Weaken X Archtype (Fire)" or "Homogenize Green Decks (GSZ)".
While admittedly GB/X never fell as low (hovering around 7-8 percent if you combined Abzan and Jund) as (Reactive/'Control') U/X is now (which is I believe noted earlier to be around 4-6 percent depending on catorgization. More if we count Delver, the statistics I saw (believe) quoted only include the Explicit Control decks and excluded Delver/Flash). To avoid a constant ramble, if the position was reverse and you were in GB/X or DS Jund (which was quoted (Deathshadow) at being around 20% two week ago, but earlier this week it was mentioned to have fallen to 11%, and but has cannablize more traditional GB/X Decks), and they asked you "Can we unban Deathrite? It dies to removal, does nothing vs fast aggro that kills on turn 3, worst it could do is power out T2 Veil, which is only good vs decks that are only one creature on board, and makes it boltable. In addition you have to fetch to ramp, you need a proper card type in graveyard, requiring setup. But it could really help GB/X because it can help us speed up to keep pace with Zoo, Affinity etc, it's a win condition that we don't need to swing so we can win on stall board states."
The comparison is off because Jace is attackable and three more Mana. However he also has instant board impact (bounce), filters in two different ways, and his Win Condition is harder to reverse once setup. But the arguments and card itself is very similar, and is honestly almost akin to Deathrite + Veil Package (two turns different, but one is two cards and other is one card. And nominally Mana intensity but DS makes Veil effectively only 2B in this circumstance)
If you heard the following argument "Our deck has to many 'narrow' removal, with Rhinos, Tasigurs and Drazi's running around Abrupt and IoK not very reliable. And our unconditional other two mana removal forces us into red or to give them a Mana. Thoughtseize only fills their grave faster, or prevents us building a board so we don't die. We need a card that can let us search, our few creatures earlier and fast, I mean it can't be Pod, that is too slow, and requires a board. How about GSZ? It can fix consistency issues, search out silver bullets!" Now the difference this and Twin is Twin as stated with Jace v Deathrite, 4 Mana to 1 Mana. However Twin provides a more immediate clock (well it ends the game then). However like GSZ it homogenized Green decks to a certain setup. And prevents in a Deck Out. For all that matters
Punishing Fire kills an archetype (tribal aggro decks cited in particular), and would power up GB/X (Jund especially) vs Aggro (also Grove vs DS Jund sounds funny to me going on). Unbanning Mystic would fall into this same potential category. I have not discussed her in particular given she fits in U/X and Abzan style decks. And is similar to Deathrite (Deathrite - Veil), Twin (Having to hold up Mana once she drops turn 3 onwards if you don't remove her on spot), as well Twin/GSZ (Homogenizes Deck Construction), and shuts down certain archetypes (Aggro, K-Commandless midrange that cannot discord Batterskull for whatever reason), and is two Mana (more expensive than Deathrite but cheaper than Jace/Twin. And is good top deck like GSZ).
The full thought question for those arguing for Return of Twin/Giving Jace a Chance. How would you argue this scenerio is fundmentally different than Cruise/Eldrazi was for GB/X decks or is it not, and then how are Jace/Twin different than Deathrite/GSZ are or they the same?
And if the answer to the above they are the same, GB/X got better overtime until it has evolved into Death Shadow Jund with 11% of the Metagame and why will U/X decks not in time do the same?
Not to toot my own horn, but am curious on Blue Advocates view on this post I made. If GB/X was in a similar state and asked for Deathrite/GSZ/Punishing Fire back in particular how would you respond? What would were counter be to in some ways an aethestic similarity Deathrite-Jace, and GSZ (or Punishing Fire if you prefer)-Twin have.
Complete list of stats Wraith Made
Death Shadow Jund - 17 (13.3%)
Bant Eldrazi - 10 (7.8%)
Eldrazi Tron - 9 (7%)
Burn - 9 (7%)
Abzan - 6 (4.7%)
Dredge - 5 (3.9%)
Infect - 5 (3.9%)
Titanshift - 5 (3.9%)
Abzan Company - 4 (3.1%)
Merfolk - 4 (3.1%)
Affinity - 4 (3.1%)
Jund - 4 (3.1%)
Ad Nauseam - 4 (3.1%)
Revolt Zoo - 4 (3.1%)
8 Rack - 3 (2.3%)
Grixis Control - 3 (2.3%)
Amulet Titan - 2 (1.6%)
Bant Company - 2 (1.6%)
Breach Titan - 2 (1.6%)
Lantern Control - 2 (1.6%)
GB Tron - 2 (1.6%)
Goryo's Vengeance - 2 (1.6%)
RG Ponza - 2 (1.6%)
Eldrazi & Taxes - 1 (.8%)
Elves - 1 (.8%)
RW Prison - 1 (.8%)
Living End - 1 (.8%)
Esper Transcendent - 1 (.8%)
BTL Scapeshift - 1 (.8%)
GW Tron - 1 (.8%)
Jeskai Saheeli - 1 (.8%)
Naya Midrange - 1 (.8%)
Esper Delve - 1 (.8%)
BW Eldrazi - 1 (.8%)
RUG Scapeshift - 1 (.8%)
Grixis Delver - 1 (.8%)
GW Company - 1 (.8%)
Skred - 1 (.8%)
Mono-Green Ramp - 1 (.8%)
GR Tron - 1 (.8%)
UW Control - 1 (.8%)
--------
True Jund/Abzan number 10 Decks total
U-Control Decks 6 (UW Control, Transcedent, Saheeli and Grixis). If we start throwing Scapeshift decks in their the number increases, but let us ignore that because stretching.
I caveat this as a thought experiment those pushing for Twin back and/or Jace; when GB/X decks were going the way of Dodo because of Dig, Cruise, Pod with Rhino, and then followed by Eldrazi Winter, if a GB/X players argued for a return of Elf (Deathrite and BloodBraid), GSZ or depending how you wanted to stretched it Punishing Fire. So they would get their proper meta share back. Would you have said "No to strong (Deathrite)", "Remove/Weaken X Archtype (Fire)" or "Homogenize Green Decks (GSZ)".
While admittedly GB/X never fell as low (hovering around 7-8 percent if you combined Abzan and Jund) as (Reactive/'Control') U/X is now (which is I believe noted earlier to be around 4-6 percent depending on catorgization. More if we count Delver, the statistics I saw (believe) quoted only include the Explicit Control decks and excluded Delver/Flash). To avoid a constant ramble, if the position was reverse and you were in GB/X or DS Jund (which was quoted (Deathshadow) at being around 20% two week ago, but earlier this week it was mentioned to have fallen to 11%, and but has cannablize more traditional GB/X Decks), and they asked you "Can we unban Deathrite? It dies to removal, does nothing vs fast aggro that kills on turn 3, worst it could do is power out T2 Veil, which is only good vs decks that are only one creature on board, and makes it boltable. In addition you have to fetch to ramp, you need a proper card type in graveyard, requiring setup. But it could really help GB/X because it can help us speed up to keep pace with Zoo, Affinity etc, it's a win condition that we don't need to swing so we can win on stall board states."
The comparison is off because Jace is attackable and three more Mana. However he also has instant board impact (bounce), filters in two different ways, and his Win Condition is harder to reverse once setup. But the arguments and card itself is very similar, and is honestly almost akin to Deathrite + Veil Package (two turns different, but one is two cards and other is one card. And nominally Mana intensity but DS makes Veil effectively only 2B in this circumstance)
If you heard the following argument "Our deck has to many 'narrow' removal, with Rhinos, Tasigurs and Drazi's running around Abrupt and IoK not very reliable. And our unconditional other two mana removal forces us into red or to give them a Mana. Thoughtseize only fills their grave faster, or prevents us building a board so we don't die. We need a card that can let us search, our few creatures earlier and fast, I mean it can't be Pod, that is too slow, and requires a board. How about GSZ? It can fix consistency issues, search out silver bullets!" Now the difference this and Twin is Twin as stated with Jace v Deathrite, 4 Mana to 1 Mana. However Twin provides a more immediate clock (well it ends the game then). However like GSZ it homogenized Green decks to a certain setup. And prevents in a Deck Out. For all that matters
Punishing Fire kills an archetype (tribal aggro decks cited in particular), and would power up GB/X (Jund especially) vs Aggro (also Grove vs DS Jund sounds funny to me going on). Unbanning Mystic would fall into this same potential category. I have not discussed her in particular given she fits in U/X and Abzan style decks. And is similar to Deathrite (Deathrite - Veil), Twin (Having to hold up Mana once she drops turn 3 onwards if you don't remove her on spot), as well Twin/GSZ (Homogenizes Deck Construction), and shuts down certain archetypes (Aggro, K-Commandless midrange that cannot discord Batterskull for whatever reason), and is two Mana (more expensive than Deathrite but cheaper than Jace/Twin. And is good top deck like GSZ).
The full thought question for those arguing for Return of Twin/Giving Jace a Chance. How would you argue this scenerio is fundmentally different than Cruise/Eldrazi was for GB/X decks or is it not, and then how are Jace/Twin different than Deathrite/GSZ are or they the same?
And if the answer to the above they are the same, GB/X got better overtime until it has evolved into Death Shadow Jund with 11% of the Metagame and why will U/X decks not in time do the same?
For those saying Yugioh is in a bad shape, it remains one of the bestselling if not bestselling card games. Atleast in Asia. However before the announcement of new card type (link), and Zoodiacs. YGO has been in one of its best formats. We have had a variety of control decks in the form of Equivalant to Blue Based Control, Or Tempo Protect The Boss, Jund style attrition grindy decks. We have quick Aggro kill style, and more traditional ToolBox Style decks.
And every 'summoning' method (colors) has a viable deck, with atleast two different build paths. Furthermore, power creep wise, decks and cards just get better as time goes on. Or you gonna try and claim Affinity, Storm, etc decks, have not gotten new cards. Or stronger as time has gone on?
Additionally have plurality of your be set of "playable" commons, cards like Ponder, Preordain. Don't have Matter Reshapers at Rare. They are basic cards. These cards ought to be readily and easily avaliable. Because they are in fact a cornerstone of their respective deck. Likewise for cards like Sylvan Advocate. You should open these and be like "I want to make a land matter deck." Remove the vanilla fillers. Every rare and mythic should do something or be something. They should be generic or for niche strategies, not define the deck. Cards that define the deck (Marvel and Collossus) should be easily acccessible. And mechanics should be workable with older cards (Fate Counters).
However that all stateds card that are format defining (Marvel, Felidar Gaurdian, etc) should be mythic. The point is crack open a pack and not think "What my rare?" It's "let us see what we got, how many of these are usable?". Downfall is fine at rare as long as Doom Blade exists. Additionally the reason why regular reprints are important. The reason you buy singles is that it's cheaper than buying a bunch of packs. However let us say the set had reasonable level of quality playables and you knew in about 6-8 months that desired card be reprinted. Specifically reprinted in an intro deck a big box stores for 12 dollars to demand.
This being a regular and known pattern. So if you own the 40 dollar card via packs before then go on yeah. If not you know you can wait. So reprints depress singles but increase players buying sets. And finally most important of all, because of that rarity trading exists. I have and seen folks trade 20 dollar secrets in Yugioh for 11 dollar ones. Assuming the 11 dollar is reasonably playable. Why? Both players know the 20 dollar card won't hold it value and are willing to trade for a similar rarity.
Making packs worthwhile, is removing the feel bad of looking at the pack and seeing useless chaff.
*Reprint means able to buy it in a fashion that is confirmed pull and a regular and understood pattern
For those saying MtG USA and MTG Japan, are sigficantly different because X, Y, and Z, if you accept these differences are from a cultural 'tendency', you can see the difference demostrated more saliently in the YGO Franchise*. The first and foremost difference, is that in Japan, players are more likely to play to win instead of playing to not lose. Second there less organized play in terms of big tournament (in comparison to the the US), so the decks tend to be more unrefined. The primary gaming method is via FNM equivalent. And finally YGO wise, Japan tends to favor big splashy plays over attrition based wins.
Now then that stated, the other reasons in YGO for different metas, is that Japan/OCG is about a pack ahead of the US/TCG. Furthermore the difference comes down to tech choices, Scooze vs Grim Flayer. Japan prefering the Scooze immediate impact over a Flayer filtering. Furthermore, in the top tiers of play these differences have never changed what is good or what is a bad deck. Additionally for two years running, Japan has won worlds, over America. Well more appropriately an OCG Player has won the whole thing. And best decks are still the same regardless of which side of the Pacific you live.
So long story short. If you accept that meta differences translate across card games, at the top teir of competitive play, the meta is exactly the same or very similar.
*There is far more large organized play for MtG than YGO in Japan. Given tournament wise, OCG has only a 2-4 major tournaments, and that is for determining who goes to world. And additionally the meta is difference because they are pack ahead of us (I.E they would be on Akhmonket, we'd be on Aether Revolt). And their ban list is different than the TCG, and is meant to partly enable said splashy plays
And second, where did I say they were the same decks? I didn't. I said Decks in modern use a black suite of cards similar to legacy blue suite. Don't draw conclusions where there are none to be had. That is all I said nothing more nothing less. And the deck I want to play is not viable in modern, in the form I want it to be in. The closest equivalent is Jund/Abzan. However I dislike protecting the Castle.
And yes Elves are very similar to Deck I want. Frick I love Archdruid, Visionary, and Symbiote. Or playing Glimpse (or Beck) with Nettle, Imperious and Heritage Druid. However the deck feels to combo for the synergistic green based midrange I want.
Theros-RtR Dredge is a prime example of that Deck. While it had a very black focus. It was fundamentally that style of deck. You play cards like Satyr Wayfinder and Grisly Salvage to load graveyard. Use Nighthowler and Nemesis of Mortals as your beaters and more. When I said "Green Merfolk" would you rather I have said "A color based Tribal Deck that is on the aggressive plan similar to Merfolk but is a lot more Combo and focus on synergistic plays then straight buffing and evasion."
The deck I want is a hybrid between GB/X and Elves ideally. But honestly? I cannot ever really have that style of deck. Because it is unfeasible for wizards to print such a deck. But yes thank you for putting words in my mouth
Trying to do that kind of "Green" primary deck is too slow. The only way as Green player I can play such a Deck competitively is I am being force to hybridized and take a more "defend the castle" stance by using Black. When I want to be laying siege to the Castle, or if not laying siege, not being the one under siege. A pitch battle if you would.
And I was before I devolved, was going to make a point, what Shadow Deck Proves (something we all have already known really) is that Inquisition, and Thoughtseize lesser extent Liliana/Tasigurs are our Brainstorm-Force of Will. (Yes I realize these two cards are not at all similar to brainstorm, only force) They will be this or are this formats literal pillars.
And like every deck in legacy begins with 4 Brainstorm and 4 Force of Will, Modern will always be some combination of 6-8 card discord for anything not fast Combo or straight Aggro.
You claim Grixis Shadow isn't blue because it's of its plurality of the cards in the deck are black. And that it's only blue cards are snappy, thoughtscar, and Stubborn. Maybe Tasigur if we wanted to be generous.
Is traditional GB/x actually Green? When the only green cards are Goyf, Scooze, and a 3-4 card combination of Abrupt and Maelstorm Pulse?
....play big creatures? That like saying Blue is just contripping. Green cannot play as a primary color because it lacks interaction to beat Combo. Or uses cards like Beast Within. You can say Grixis is not your style of blue but it most assuredly a blue deck.
It plays contrips to shape hands, has ways to control tempo via cards like Snappy granting flashback. It plays at instant speed mostly to save its discord, and creatures. It seeks to establish a point where it can safely drop its win condition and defend it until you win the game.
(Yes I know that can be used to for GB/X, which is partly the point, if we want to call Grixis Shadow a Black Deck only. We need to call GB/x (traditional) a Black deck)
If Grixis Shadow is not blue, (traditional) Jund and Abzan are not green.
Even within that cycle their are couple cycles of reprints which are easily recognizable once you know the patterns. The Meta Cards of the Year will be given a reprint, Three Months before Nuetering. To make the decks cheaps for those who want to complete it or collection purposes.
Then non-monsters generic supports (Hero's Downfall or Lighting Bolt closest MtG Equivalents) will depending on necessity, be reprinted in 6 months in that years structures deck (Duel Deck will be closest similarity). Within those decks often times a card not reprinted in years but popular or needing a word update (Ravnica Charms for example) will be reprinted. And in general the money cards of the game that their prices as YGO Goyf.
The prime example of such an event is Trishula and her variants (Ouroboros, and Nekroz of Trish), have steady held a 11-20 despite consistent reprints. For a variety of reasons. I am tired but what I am trying to say if you follow the game it's easy to determine what get reprinted when. And the cards that aren't reprinted (All the Red-Eye cards from last year mega-tin) tell you something else.
They were later reprinted in the TCG Exclusive Product that featured Joey, Yugi and Kaiba. Furthermore it's important to know, the OCG and TCG in terms of reprints are not the same. Notably the TCG (Europe and America's mostly) reprint more often while the OCG tends to be lower rarities on cards and reprints actual sets.
Something else to remember is YGO reprints packs if related support is coming out. Be like if Scars was released, then Original Mirroden was re released (hence why YGO partly has first vs unlimited edition). And finally to get to the topic on hand.
The issue with MtG now I believe, is I don't have a reason to buy packs. To quote a famous chip commercial "you cannot buy just one." And if I spend 20 Dollars on Packs I get 5 packs or so. Let me say I wanted a Rhondas. I got just buy a Rhonda's for 16. Well I could get Rhonda's plus card if I buy packs! Well what if I don't? Furthermore if I don't get the card I wanted, will I get enough good cards to trade for Rhondas?
The answer is likely nay. A community is built around trading cards. It's how you build relationships, in one sense. You all open packs and see what you got. Then see if you got a card someone else wanted. Then you perhaps do on the spot trading. If the buying packs get you so much chaff that you cannot trade any of it too someone reasonable.
Like if I pulled a I don't another card worth 20, for sake of example Grim Flayer is in an Akhmonet. I can reasonable trade that Flayer to a Rhonas. Or perhaps I pulled a couple Path to Exiles (worth 5 each) or a card like Fatal Push. I could trade them for a Rhonas, because while uncommon they have value. Packs need to not garuntee me value but they should garuntee me something to place in my trade binder that someone reasonably would want for whatever reason.
Take Chromaticore or Triskephobia, neither are amazing cards but they are interesting and someone would want them. MtG Packs are getting better at this. But do lack that. I hope this made sense
Your focusing on that element i.e Twin and GSZ (and lesser extent Punishing Fire) and ignoring how I am also asking to compare Jace/DRS as part of the 'argument'.
Let us say GB/x decks only had 3-4% of the meta total for around one year. And were utterly in the gutter for a variety of reasons, just like U/X is today.
But U/X Reactive/Permission decks were making up a total of 20% of the meta. So instead of asking for a ban from U/X deck is on top (for sake of discussion let us say Jace or Twin).
They asked for
Deathrite Shamen
Green Sun Zenith*
Punishing Fire
Because it would allow them to compete better vs Aggro decks (DRS and Fire), be a slow win condition that is interactable with (Deathrite, killable by every removal in format), and allows you access to silver bullet your deck (no clean comparison beside homogenizing deck akin to Twin.)
How would you argue that those two/three cards are fundamentally different than Jace/Twin, in terms of coming off the list or why they should remain banned? (Personally as I said in my above post first is Mana Cost, DRS is 1 Mana to Jace 4, and in regards to Punishing Fire vs Twin, they suppress in different ways. GSZ my view if Pod is banned so should GSZ, and Traverse (unless Traverse is shown over next couple months to fade back in obscurity.)
*GSZ is the weakest comparison here, but is the best one I could think of with 'homogenizing' GB/X decks like Twin did for U/X
Bad vs Fast Aggro, and Self Contained Win Condition. Deathrite (in combination with Veil) kills decks that only play 1 Creature a turn
Twin is that it was banned for homogenizing Blue Based Deck (just as GSZ, well that and Toolboxing), and preventing experimentation.
I only bring up punishing fire because it was noted as suppressing certain kind of decks (tribal decks), just as twin suppressed decks that lack interaction/tap out T3.
Their are several differences, most notably the Mana cost is very difference. But the argument for why they are banned and why you could want them back (DRS can stay on list, and be fun to see a format or two with Jace in it, for all I care). But the argument I am making-asking how would you draw a distinction as U/X Player if GB/X was in the gutter and asked for those cards back.
(Mana Cost is the biggest difference imho)
Not to toot my own horn, but am curious on Blue Advocates view on this post I made. If GB/X was in a similar state and asked for Deathrite/GSZ/Punishing Fire back in particular how would you respond? What would were counter be to in some ways an aethestic similarity Deathrite-Jace, and GSZ (or Punishing Fire if you prefer)-Twin have.
Complete list of stats Wraith Made
Death Shadow Jund - 17 (13.3%)
Bant Eldrazi - 10 (7.8%)
Eldrazi Tron - 9 (7%)
Burn - 9 (7%)
Abzan - 6 (4.7%)
Dredge - 5 (3.9%)
Infect - 5 (3.9%)
Titanshift - 5 (3.9%)
Abzan Company - 4 (3.1%)
Merfolk - 4 (3.1%)
Affinity - 4 (3.1%)
Jund - 4 (3.1%)
Ad Nauseam - 4 (3.1%)
Revolt Zoo - 4 (3.1%)
8 Rack - 3 (2.3%)
Grixis Control - 3 (2.3%)
Amulet Titan - 2 (1.6%)
Bant Company - 2 (1.6%)
Breach Titan - 2 (1.6%)
Lantern Control - 2 (1.6%)
GB Tron - 2 (1.6%)
Goryo's Vengeance - 2 (1.6%)
RG Ponza - 2 (1.6%)
Eldrazi & Taxes - 1 (.8%)
Elves - 1 (.8%)
RW Prison - 1 (.8%)
Living End - 1 (.8%)
Esper Transcendent - 1 (.8%)
BTL Scapeshift - 1 (.8%)
GW Tron - 1 (.8%)
Jeskai Saheeli - 1 (.8%)
Naya Midrange - 1 (.8%)
Esper Delve - 1 (.8%)
BW Eldrazi - 1 (.8%)
RUG Scapeshift - 1 (.8%)
Grixis Delver - 1 (.8%)
GW Company - 1 (.8%)
Skred - 1 (.8%)
Mono-Green Ramp - 1 (.8%)
GR Tron - 1 (.8%)
UW Control - 1 (.8%)
--------
True Jund/Abzan number 10 Decks total
U-Control Decks 6 (UW Control, Transcedent, Saheeli and Grixis). If we start throwing Scapeshift decks in their the number increases, but let us ignore that because stretching.
While admittedly GB/X never fell as low (hovering around 7-8 percent if you combined Abzan and Jund) as (Reactive/'Control') U/X is now (which is I believe noted earlier to be around 4-6 percent depending on catorgization. More if we count Delver, the statistics I saw (believe) quoted only include the Explicit Control decks and excluded Delver/Flash). To avoid a constant ramble, if the position was reverse and you were in GB/X or DS Jund (which was quoted (Deathshadow) at being around 20% two week ago, but earlier this week it was mentioned to have fallen to 11%, and but has cannablize more traditional GB/X Decks), and they asked you "Can we unban Deathrite? It dies to removal, does nothing vs fast aggro that kills on turn 3, worst it could do is power out T2 Veil, which is only good vs decks that are only one creature on board, and makes it boltable. In addition you have to fetch to ramp, you need a proper card type in graveyard, requiring setup. But it could really help GB/X because it can help us speed up to keep pace with Zoo, Affinity etc, it's a win condition that we don't need to swing so we can win on stall board states."
The comparison is off because Jace is attackable and three more Mana. However he also has instant board impact (bounce), filters in two different ways, and his Win Condition is harder to reverse once setup. But the arguments and card itself is very similar, and is honestly almost akin to Deathrite + Veil Package (two turns different, but one is two cards and other is one card. And nominally Mana intensity but DS makes Veil effectively only 2B in this circumstance)
If you heard the following argument "Our deck has to many 'narrow' removal, with Rhinos, Tasigurs and Drazi's running around Abrupt and IoK not very reliable. And our unconditional other two mana removal forces us into red or to give them a Mana. Thoughtseize only fills their grave faster, or prevents us building a board so we don't die. We need a card that can let us search, our few creatures earlier and fast, I mean it can't be Pod, that is too slow, and requires a board. How about GSZ? It can fix consistency issues, search out silver bullets!" Now the difference this and Twin is Twin as stated with Jace v Deathrite, 4 Mana to 1 Mana. However Twin provides a more immediate clock (well it ends the game then). However like GSZ it homogenized Green decks to a certain setup. And prevents in a Deck Out. For all that matters
Punishing Fire kills an archetype (tribal aggro decks cited in particular), and would power up GB/X (Jund especially) vs Aggro (also Grove vs DS Jund sounds funny to me going on). Unbanning Mystic would fall into this same potential category. I have not discussed her in particular given she fits in U/X and Abzan style decks. And is similar to Deathrite (Deathrite - Veil), Twin (Having to hold up Mana once she drops turn 3 onwards if you don't remove her on spot), as well Twin/GSZ (Homogenizes Deck Construction), and shuts down certain archetypes (Aggro, K-Commandless midrange that cannot discord Batterskull for whatever reason), and is two Mana (more expensive than Deathrite but cheaper than Jace/Twin. And is good top deck like GSZ).
The full thought question for those arguing for Return of Twin/Giving Jace a Chance. How would you argue this scenerio is fundmentally different than Cruise/Eldrazi was for GB/X decks or is it not, and then how are Jace/Twin different than Deathrite/GSZ are or they the same?
And if the answer to the above they are the same, GB/X got better overtime until it has evolved into Death Shadow Jund with 11% of the Metagame and why will U/X decks not in time do the same?
And every 'summoning' method (colors) has a viable deck, with atleast two different build paths. Furthermore, power creep wise, decks and cards just get better as time goes on. Or you gonna try and claim Affinity, Storm, etc decks, have not gotten new cards. Or stronger as time has gone on?