Part of your post Gale, makes no sense to me, maybe I'm a bad stompy player, but stompy decks are not purely big.creature.deck (well they are but going on), they do run Planeswalkers, instants and sorcery. Example in standard, r/g/x monsters runs Domri Rade while Domri is not a win con like Elspeth or Memory Adept, but you still have to make choices with him. For example you have a Polukranos, Domri Rade, and your opponent has a three packrats and three mana. You have 3 mana up after resolving Domri, and say Mortars in hand. Do you Polukranos fight a rat and use Mizzum to do the rest, draw a card with Domri, swing with Polukranos see if he blocks and then mizzium etc. Or do you use Polukranos fight trigger for extra. Or do you not play Domri at all and play overload Mizzum Mortars?
The above example is not the best, but is an example of stompy running more than just creatures. Additionally combo decks are just as linear (from my experience across the table) as stompy, that counter your important threats as they draw into their combo. Control decks are similar in they outlast you (that is there game plan) make 1 for 2 trades/big draws with sphinx rev. I am not trying to say there is no thought involved, because there is, in above example replace Mono-Black with U/W/X player, say they just play Architect, have dissolve, and charm in hand, do you counter Domri or place Polukranos on the top of your opponent's deck? Then counter Polukranos next turn? Any deck could be boiled down to a linear strategy, because that is the deck has its name.
Dredge Standard (my current deck), builds up a graveyard for 10/10 maybe a 20/20 Nemesis of Mortals, or an arbitrary big Nighthowler, that is what it does. Yes I can only win by combat damage (well unless I blood for game), how is that anymore more linear then a combo deck like storm having to gutshot/young pyro/gutter for game? Or u/w/x waiting for you to run out of gas and then they resolve an Atherling/an ult Elspeth. Its what the decks do, and yes winning the game is linear, but is the process of getting to the point, where they can safely ult Elspeth, resolve, Aether, storm gutshot, myself not having my Nemesis removed etc.
edit realized after I changed my example from Demon to Rat, I forgot to fixed the rest of the post
What is the best way to put this? I started playing MTG back during Onslaught, and at heart a green stompy player. There is something that has been confusing me lately, when I've been reading threads on Mtgsal and across the web, why do players hate that playstyle. Or just mock it, and say it takes no skill to play, how its all about turning dudes sideways etc.
These same players I often see praising the complexity and skill of storm, or control. I admit I have never piloted storm, and I understand conceptually how it is complex (playing right spells in right orders, scrying correctly do never not have a draw, keeping mana for the final gutshot etc). But is not more complex/different kind of complexity when you need your stompies sense you have choose which threats you want to play. On a board with Elspeth 1, you have no field, Nylea, a Polukranos, and Xenagod in hand, who do you play, Xenagod so every card you drop is a threat, Polukranos while he's tapped out etc.
Controls need to know what to counter, stompy needs to know how to bait, etc. Am I just an awful player who should sell his cards, but I am honestly why do people think that stompy decks take no thought process?
She is interesting, flavorful, would have been better if came in before RtR rotated with the shocklands leaving. Through if I had to wager a guess, she'd see play in Green Devotion which can make best use of her second plus 1. Through the 1st ability is interesting.
Maybe this is because I built my deck incorrectly but the Dredge Deck, which I started building/piloting back in October (admittably was a monster deck until I realized it was not monsters, only just learned I was playing Dredge around 2-3 months ago) the deck feels far more midrange than aggressive the deck can have an aggressive blowout, but that is not particularly common.
Unlike Lot troll you don't need to invest anything else in him (admittably discarding creatures is helpful for Dredge) and and curves nicely from Xenagos, God of Revels . Lotleth Troll also has the issue in that he is nets card disadvantage in a deck that find it awkward for card advantage.
And the biggest thing this card has over the charms, and Rootborn its a creature which means you can grab it off grisly salvage and can exile it from graveyard, i.e it doesn't matter if we mill it.
No one else wants to build a modern deck. It's the latter they don't want to build modern unless competitive. Also this is an aside but I don't want to play 'casual' and have someone play 4 ancestral recalls, sol ring into tinker in Blightsteel etc (which is way too often my experience when people say 'casual' decks). Turn 2
No offense, but do you really want to play in a playgroup where people refuse to build casual decks just for fun, and instead insist on either playing only with super-expensive competitive decks, or not play at all? Do you want to play to have fun, or do you want to play to compete super-expensive decks?
Also, by "casual" I didn't mean "anything goes". A rule of thumb used in our playgroup is that your deck ought to conform to at least one of the existing formats (even though we never play any particular format). The banned/restricted list exists for a good reason, after all. Most people in our playgroup, however, play mostly varied casual decks. Sometimes someone wants to playtest a stronger deck, and that's fine (although since we almost exclusively play multiplayer games, those decks tend to not be so strong there; however, that's actually what makes it even more fun.) But most people have at least a dozen of diverse casual decks.
If someone insists in playing a multi-thousand-dollar deck against you, you can lose a few games and simply say "ok, your deck is stronger than mine; can we now play with some other decks?" If they refuse, would you really even want to play against such a person?
(Also, I doubt someone would play with 4 ancestral recalls or such, unless they are proxies. And if they are using proxied power-9, you can tell them to... ok, just tell them "really?". And if they insist, you scoop.)
(In that particular game the guys dad started in Alpha and have him his cards when he quit)
It's just a tendency I experience when I ask someone if they want to play casual which is why I personally like to add (can we play casual -format-). It's more of an issue when I play pickup games. As to why they are only playgroup in my area and those players who do play standard/modern I really enjoy the games even if they are lopsided matchups. (living end vs beck-beatdown elfs, and dredge vs b/w/x control or MBD. Through there is a constellation deck in the works and player playing black devotion is making black Aggro and one of the two b/w/x players of making America for modern) (the standard matchup is more fair).
But they make up only 1/4 of my playgroup, and often join in on EDH games.
So, I am really liking this card, I am thinking about using this in Dredge because it makes an incredibly durable target for Howler (who itself is already durable threat) and the best part it has trample base. Only things I could ask is that it had hexproof but eh, you can't get everything.
No one else wants to build a modern deck. It's the latter they don't want to build modern unless competitive. Also this is an aside but I don't want to play 'casual' and have someone play 4 ancestral recalls, sol ring into tinker in Blightsteel etc (which is way too often my experience when people say 'casual' decks). Turn 2
Better late than never to make an introduction post?
Hello MTG Salvation, I play MTG the same reason I play YGO I love TCG. That adrenaline rush if you draw that one card, or if you swing did you walk into diseaster or did you take sweet sweet victory? That painful mistapping of mana or discarding the wrong card. The feeling that you face a foe with the pile of paper you yourself crafted after hours of testing, or research. With your innate ingenuity to pull through in the end, the decisions do I use removal spell a or save it and use removal spell b.
I started playing MTG during Onslaught, took a break right before Lorwyn, and rejoined middle of Innistrad. I only really started playing for sake of playing sense RtR-Theros. What I mean is I normally play MtG to hang with friends because I enjoy MtG (as I'd rather be playing YGO). But my current deck which I brewed up back around October, off a G/R monster shell became my Dredge Deck (which ironically I only realized that around two months ago). For me this season feels perfect for me, you have the adrenaline rush of making mistakes and waiting to draw that one card (charm against control, gaze against Aggro etc) but I don't feel the need to constantly need to keep mana up for some reason. I.e not answers dot game, and the games can stretch for ten or more times (well less in the Aggro match) but it feels like I am playing not putting pieces of paper on the table pointlessly.
Or in other words the exact opposite of Yugioh. Now I enjoy YGO equal to if not more than MTG but I different things from different systems. So that's that, and hello MtG Sal.
Thanks for all the suggestions, and I'll try some of them out. MTGO I'll atleast take a look at, through I am hoping that Khans gets some of the group to try standard. Because that is my favorite format/for me personally standard pace feels like magic for me.
I do have a commander deck (two in fact Derevi and Sek'uar), kinda hard to find I dislike EDH without actually playing it first? I'll try get more people into modern (through honestly I prefer standard, mostly because this standard feels right (pace wise) when it comes to MTG for me.)
I'm sorry if I should have posted in the Commander forum but in my local playgroup I have a situation. It is/turning into a purely EDH playgroup. However I have discovered I do not enjoy EDH. Let me be clear, I am not saying EDH is an awful format it just not my cup of tea. I have tried playing other formats, with them, notably standard and modern. The former, the issue is part of the playgroup has this hatred of Standard. Some it's too underpowered or that combo does not really exist, or are just control players*. I've tried modern, but only one person has a modern deck, followed by the price issue.
So question I have, is what should I do?
*I have nothing against control, I play standard dredge/green stompy, I do not like counter spells or someone removing my creature. But does that u/w/x Mage enjoy being hit by a 20/20 Nemesis of Mortals? It goes both ways, disliking something is not the same as it being overpowered/people enjoy different things. The control don't want to play the u/w/x control suite/think its pointless otherwise.
I made some changes sense my last post notably the Scry lands. The deck has gotten more compact, and focused on following a singular strategy. The basic ploy is fill the graveyard with Commune, Satyr, and Grisly, for a Underworld Cerb play late-game. This brings me to the Murder King, his reason for existence is to be milled. Save Scavenging Ooze or the occasional DRS, he is safer there then on the board.
As the game goes on (turn 1 is Scry or Gate, 2 is a Satyr, or Grisly + land, turn 3, is a scry + commune or grisly or Satyr), turn 4 I start dropping my Polukranos and Nemesis, with Xenagod and Nylea to give relevant buffs. My walkers come down, post-verdict, to give my deck a li bit more reach, and/or help give me a hand again. However lategame, my Cerb, becomes +5 if I played correctly (and my matchups). I play my Doggy, and sac him to return my Murder King to my hand. His effect goes off, and all those dead Polukranos, and Nemesis return to my hand.
Nemesis gets weaker post Cerberus, but I also get back my Wayfinders, who provide A) More self, and free two damage with the Murder King, so refilling my graveyard is not an issue.
Polukranos is still a solid play post Cerb, because I can play him with 1-3 mana left over, depending on when/how I Cerb.
Some matchups make this slightly awkward, most notably MBD and Monsters, sense I get my monsters and they get there monsters. MBD gets back there Gary. The monster matchup means I properly do not sac Cerb, and instead use him as my win con, with Polukranos, and Domri in charge of removing blockers.
MBD, I have to use my Satyr (either wayfinder or reveler's) as a method to keep Desecration down until Dreadbore, and rely on Cerb dodging most of there removal save Hero's. Otherwise an option is to buff Nemesis, with Xenagod and Nylea, and have 20/20 trample coming to their face.
MUB and White Weenie my matchup, comes down to hitting master or other creatures with Polukranos, or Golgari Charm there field/rush them after dropping a Whip. I do not know the decklists there well enough however. Cerberus allows me to positively trade with any of there trades (save Master).
B/U/X My regular opponent plays this deck, while he normally wins 66%, I have managed to regular to win 33%, make one of the games harder than it should. It comes down if I can get a Cerberus to resolve, to replay my threats, so to outlast his removal.
Dredge this matchup, is weird one, but my deck however hits several of there key cards, post-Cerb (notably Jarad and Nighthowler), while my Nemesis is worse, I still have a card I can play to regain tempo without a graveyard (Polukranos).
This is going to sound worse than I mean it to, but not every dredge deck needs to be Jarad or Flesh//Blood combo, I have been running dredge deck back sense Theros which has been trying to make use of Underworld Cereberus, I.e lategame killing it off to return my Polukranos, and Nemsis of Mortals to my hand. I've had some success, and have recently started using Tyrmaret Recursion ability as a sac outlet.
The above example is not the best, but is an example of stompy running more than just creatures. Additionally combo decks are just as linear (from my experience across the table) as stompy, that counter your important threats as they draw into their combo. Control decks are similar in they outlast you (that is there game plan) make 1 for 2 trades/big draws with sphinx rev. I am not trying to say there is no thought involved, because there is, in above example replace Mono-Black with U/W/X player, say they just play Architect, have dissolve, and charm in hand, do you counter Domri or place Polukranos on the top of your opponent's deck? Then counter Polukranos next turn? Any deck could be boiled down to a linear strategy, because that is the deck has its name.
Dredge Standard (my current deck), builds up a graveyard for 10/10 maybe a 20/20 Nemesis of Mortals, or an arbitrary big Nighthowler, that is what it does. Yes I can only win by combat damage (well unless I blood for game), how is that anymore more linear then a combo deck like storm having to gutshot/young pyro/gutter for game? Or u/w/x waiting for you to run out of gas and then they resolve an Atherling/an ult Elspeth. Its what the decks do, and yes winning the game is linear, but is the process of getting to the point, where they can safely ult Elspeth, resolve, Aether, storm gutshot, myself not having my Nemesis removed etc.
edit realized after I changed my example from Demon to Rat, I forgot to fixed the rest of the post
These same players I often see praising the complexity and skill of storm, or control. I admit I have never piloted storm, and I understand conceptually how it is complex (playing right spells in right orders, scrying correctly do never not have a draw, keeping mana for the final gutshot etc). But is not more complex/different kind of complexity when you need your stompies sense you have choose which threats you want to play. On a board with Elspeth 1, you have no field, Nylea, a Polukranos, and Xenagod in hand, who do you play, Xenagod so every card you drop is a threat, Polukranos while he's tapped out etc.
Controls need to know what to counter, stompy needs to know how to bait, etc. Am I just an awful player who should sell his cards, but I am honestly why do people think that stompy decks take no thought process?
And the biggest thing this card has over the charms, and Rootborn its a creature which means you can grab it off grisly salvage and can exile it from graveyard, i.e it doesn't matter if we mill it.
(In that particular game the guys dad started in Alpha and have him his cards when he quit)
It's just a tendency I experience when I ask someone if they want to play casual which is why I personally like to add (can we play casual -format-). It's more of an issue when I play pickup games. As to why they are only playgroup in my area and those players who do play standard/modern I really enjoy the games even if they are lopsided matchups. (living end vs beck-beatdown elfs, and dredge vs b/w/x control or MBD. Through there is a constellation deck in the works and player playing black devotion is making black Aggro and one of the two b/w/x players of making America for modern) (the standard matchup is more fair).
But they make up only 1/4 of my playgroup, and often join in on EDH games.
Link: Soul of New Phyrexia
Please use card tags. -rujasu
Hello MTG Salvation, I play MTG the same reason I play YGO I love TCG. That adrenaline rush if you draw that one card, or if you swing did you walk into diseaster or did you take sweet sweet victory? That painful mistapping of mana or discarding the wrong card. The feeling that you face a foe with the pile of paper you yourself crafted after hours of testing, or research. With your innate ingenuity to pull through in the end, the decisions do I use removal spell a or save it and use removal spell b.
I started playing MTG during Onslaught, took a break right before Lorwyn, and rejoined middle of Innistrad. I only really started playing for sake of playing sense RtR-Theros. What I mean is I normally play MtG to hang with friends because I enjoy MtG (as I'd rather be playing YGO). But my current deck which I brewed up back around October, off a G/R monster shell became my Dredge Deck (which ironically I only realized that around two months ago). For me this season feels perfect for me, you have the adrenaline rush of making mistakes and waiting to draw that one card (charm against control, gaze against Aggro etc) but I don't feel the need to constantly need to keep mana up for some reason. I.e not answers dot game, and the games can stretch for ten or more times (well less in the Aggro match) but it feels like I am playing not putting pieces of paper on the table pointlessly.
Or in other words the exact opposite of Yugioh. Now I enjoy YGO equal to if not more than MTG but I different things from different systems. So that's that, and hello MtG Sal.
So question I have, is what should I do?
*I have nothing against control, I play standard dredge/green stompy, I do not like counter spells or someone removing my creature. But does that u/w/x Mage enjoy being hit by a 20/20 Nemesis of Mortals? It goes both ways, disliking something is not the same as it being overpowered/people enjoy different things. The control don't want to play the u/w/x control suite/think its pointless otherwise.
4 Nemesis of Mortals
4 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Underworld Cerberus
3 Tymaret, the Murder King
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Xenagos, God of Revels
Instants/Sorcerys
4 Grisly Salvage
2 Dreadbore
2 Golgari Charm
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Domri Rade
Artifacts/Enchantments
2 Whip of Erebos
Land
6 Forest
4 Swamp
3 Temple of Malice
3 Mountain
3 Temple of Abandon
3 Golgari Guildgate
1 Rogue's Passage
3 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Reaper of the Wilds
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Fade into Antiquity
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Hero's Downfall
I made some changes sense my last post notably the Scry lands. The deck has gotten more compact, and focused on following a singular strategy. The basic ploy is fill the graveyard with Commune, Satyr, and Grisly, for a Underworld Cerb play late-game. This brings me to the Murder King, his reason for existence is to be milled. Save Scavenging Ooze or the occasional DRS, he is safer there then on the board.
As the game goes on (turn 1 is Scry or Gate, 2 is a Satyr, or Grisly + land, turn 3, is a scry + commune or grisly or Satyr), turn 4 I start dropping my Polukranos and Nemesis, with Xenagod and Nylea to give relevant buffs. My walkers come down, post-verdict, to give my deck a li bit more reach, and/or help give me a hand again. However lategame, my Cerb, becomes +5 if I played correctly (and my matchups). I play my Doggy, and sac him to return my Murder King to my hand. His effect goes off, and all those dead Polukranos, and Nemesis return to my hand.
Nemesis gets weaker post Cerberus, but I also get back my Wayfinders, who provide A) More self, and free two damage with the Murder King, so refilling my graveyard is not an issue.
Polukranos is still a solid play post Cerb, because I can play him with 1-3 mana left over, depending on when/how I Cerb.
Some matchups make this slightly awkward, most notably MBD and Monsters, sense I get my monsters and they get there monsters. MBD gets back there Gary. The monster matchup means I properly do not sac Cerb, and instead use him as my win con, with Polukranos, and Domri in charge of removing blockers.
MBD, I have to use my Satyr (either wayfinder or reveler's) as a method to keep Desecration down until Dreadbore, and rely on Cerb dodging most of there removal save Hero's. Otherwise an option is to buff Nemesis, with Xenagod and Nylea, and have 20/20 trample coming to their face.
MUB and White Weenie my matchup, comes down to hitting master or other creatures with Polukranos, or Golgari Charm there field/rush them after dropping a Whip. I do not know the decklists there well enough however. Cerberus allows me to positively trade with any of there trades (save Master).
B/U/X My regular opponent plays this deck, while he normally wins 66%, I have managed to regular to win 33%, make one of the games harder than it should. It comes down if I can get a Cerberus to resolve, to replay my threats, so to outlast his removal.
Dredge this matchup, is weird one, but my deck however hits several of there key cards, post-Cerb (notably Jarad and Nighthowler), while my Nemesis is worse, I still have a card I can play to regain tempo without a graveyard (Polukranos).