I'm still a huge Dredgevine advocate. If you can counter the draw spells, i.e. Cathartic Reunion, it really hinders their plan for a few turns. Negate is a hard counter
so is it fair to run 2 spirebluff canals over 2 sulfur falls?
I'd say it's just better to play Spirebluff Canal instead of Sulfur Falls. There are some marginal cases where Sulfur Falls might be better, but if you can't make it to turn 3, none of them matter.
I've had a few hands that would have been great if they had any other lands than a sulfur falls, so I might try the fast land instead
I remember having awkward hands with Sulfur Falls (not very often). Since I've switched to the Canals, it solved that issue and allows me to mulligan less often and take less damage!
On the number of lands, don't forget that Splinter Twin was perhaps one of the most consistent decks in its day. It ran 23 lands to support 4 Twin, 2 Cryptic main, plus a random echelon of Keranos, Batterskull, Jace, etc out of the board.
Anyway, I run 3 Colonnade and 3 Spirebluff Canal and haven't looked back.
I've never played against the deck and wanna know what to do. dunno how I've dodged it with it being so popular right now
Spot removal that exiles is excellent. Board wipes that don't cause damage are good since they can just pump a smaller creature to avoid it dying. Verdict > Anger. Remand stops Become Immense. Spell Snare hits any copies of Goyf and Temur Battle Rage. Otherwise, burn them out as fast as possible with Bolt and Helix since they contribute enough damage to themselves.
Speaking of learning the ropes, the one mistake I seem to make is when I go to kill a creature. Is there a general rule of thumb for when to use Lightning Bolt in the early turns on an opposing creature? I.e, while they're tapped out vs when they go to declare attacks.
Regarding path, I try to wait until their turn so they can't utilize the mana that turn, is draw step better than declare attacks step?
I have been testing a pretty standard version of the deck lately and I have a question.
Do you have problems sometimes with casting 2 creature spells a turn to get the vengevines out of the GY?
After a couple of games I figured it is a little bit hit or miss.
I love vengevine so I don't want to run the all in dredge version but, as I said, I had problems with recurring them.
When we get it going it is insane and we can win without our vines but its more difficult.
Consistency is an issue at times. I've found more practice with the deck helps to prevent this. The two primary ways I win with the deck are:
1. Recur Bloodghast and Amalgam chains for repetition against an opponent similar to the dredge version.
2. Cast my Crawlers from the graveyard / other spell to get the Vengevines back.
Something I tend to do is just draw normally for a turn or two to replenish my hand. I've found that getting that next land / Lotleth Troll is what helps me stabilize.
Can any one provide a sideboard guide, or a general idea of what cards can come out in certain matchups, and which SB cards are very important to bring in?
I'm really struggling to understand what cards can come out in the match-ups!
Sweet, thanks for the replies so fast guys! I have an EE in my SB, but since it doesn't sweep everything usually except for a few matchups, I didn't mention it. I haven't been seeing much Jund in my lgs, so I prefer Verdict over Wrath atm due to a few Fish players. That uncounterability is beast
I've been doing a lot of testing with numbers in my variant online. What's the general consensus lately on the number of sweepers in the 75? I've been trying 1 Anger & 1 Verdict MB, with an extra Anger in the SB.
Stinkweed Imp trumps Golgari Thug in nearly every manner we want. Defensive, dredges further into our library, less restrictive, and stalls vs aggro decks.
thanks creamy, what's your opinion about the value of golgari thug as a recurrable 2-cmc creature that can help for a more consistent turn 3-4 2-casted creature for vengevine requirement? yes stinkweed can help on this but its on turn 4-5.
I'm not saying it's a worthless creature, but I see it being ten times better in the Dredge deck over Dredgevine. I'd rather play Relentless Dead, which I've certainly considered. Since we don't necessarily put up stellar results, it's up to you. I did run it a few years back, and was hardly impressed. It being a 1/1 ground creature is lackluster in combat and gets trumped by every removal spell / token creature imaginable. The 2 drop slot is pretty packed with LolTroll, Ghast, any removal, etc. Probably not worth it overall. Satyr Wayfinder at least cycles itself and gets us a land drop usually to help keep recurring those landfall triggers and start the chain all over again!
Stinkweed Imp trumps Golgari Thug in nearly every manner we want. Defensive, dredges further into our library, less restrictive, and stalls vs aggro decks.
I would rather play grim lavamancer then delver than, as it fit's the overall playstyle of the deck much better, doesn't even need to flip and can be used against more decks (about any creature matchup).
I play both in my 75 (lavamancer as a one-of). Lavamancer is a superslow clock in comparison to delver, though, so they don't have the same function at all.
Lavamancer isn't "superslow" in comparison with Delver. There are no Brainstorms or Ponders in this format. You only have Visions to set-up a delver flip. If you don't flip it Lavamancer is 100% faster. If you do flip it Delver is 50% faster.
Delver might be a faster clock sometimes, but being able to ping creatures in the aggro matchup helps us control the board better. Also, the ability to exile unwanted lands from our graveyard before we shuffle it back with Emrakul makes it a win over Delver in my book!
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Prized Amalgam
3 Stinkweed Imp
4 Vengevine
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
1 Life from the Loam
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Darkblast
3 Thoughtseize
3 Nature's Claim
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Spellskite
2 Abrupt Decay
Anyway, I run 3 Colonnade and 3 Spirebluff Canal and haven't looked back.
After game 1, I side in Celestial Purge, Supreme Verdict, Dispel, Negate, Engineered Explosives in exchange for Ancestral Visions, Spell Snare, and Anger of the Gods.
My question is since this is my first big event with the deck, what should my sideboard look like for an open meta at a large event?
Regarding path, I try to wait until their turn so they can't utilize the mana that turn, is draw step better than declare attacks step?
1. Recur Bloodghast and Amalgam chains for repetition against an opponent similar to the dredge version.
2. Cast my Crawlers from the graveyard / other spell to get the Vengevines back.
Something I tend to do is just draw normally for a turn or two to replenish my hand. I've found that getting that next land / Lotleth Troll is what helps me stabilize.