Our lovely young lady is a potent toolbox engine, allowing for a variety of singletons. Hidden Strings is another powerful engine in and of itself, and with an ideal hand can lead to explosive tempo advantage as early as the second turn.
One concern I have is Whip of Erebos as my only source of life gain against four pseudo-bobs, but I'm not sure what else to use in these colours.
I've spent a while playing a voltron setup with Lazav, and while not having white does a notable disservice to the archetype's power, I find piling equipment onto a continually improving creature satisfying. Of the variations I've tried, my experience has been that less is more when it comes to milling effects, despite Lazav's ability. On the other hand, Grinning Totem is a must.
I personally have found that the green negates the need for a card like crypt incursion. Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze do a solid job combatting Nighthowler, Whip of Erebos, etc. They also serve the same need for lifegain in a world of 12-shockland manabases, especially against aggressive strategies.
To anyone playing Phenax in pure UB, I HIGHLY recommend, at a minimum, a green splash for Prophet of Kruphix. She literally doubles Phenax's efficiency.
Hello there, my Phenax and Friends list is a BUG mill-oriented midrange deck that I believe to be substantially divergent from the decks listed here and anything active on the forums.
I know mill is not generally an optimal win condition; I know there's some degree of reason this deck doesn't have a significant following. Nonetheless, I find it to be the perfect mixture of grinding, defensive midrange and explosive combo kills. Although my experience with the list doesn't include much competitive play, it did scrape a top eight finish at a small BNG Gameday tournament, and it's become reviled among my local playgroup. I love this deck, so I'm going to endeavor to give it a respectable thread.
Deathrite Shaman - There isn't a lot of graveyard strategy going on in standard right now, and coupled with the modern banning, DRS has been having a pretty bad year. That doesn't stop him from being an attrition monstrosity when he has food to eat. Deathrite does a great job of keeping us alive against aggro, and when our draws aren't coming up any other way he can chip at our opponent's life consistently.
Sylvan Caryatid - This is everything we could want it to be. Mana, toughness, hexproof; we love it.
Scavenging Ooze - Like DRS Ooze is amazing when given free food. It keeps us alive, and grows bigger to both fight and mill harder in doing so.
Courser of Kruphix - Courser is a king of midrange, and while this deck misses out on some of its better interactions like Domri Rade, it still provides an immense amount of value in a single card.
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - If there's any odd choice in the deck, I'd say it has to be Lazav. Standard may not exactly be EDH, but there are still quite a few powerful creatures floating around the format. Playing Lazav is betting your opponent has at least a few.
Prophet of Kruphix - I think this is the card that makes Phenax pretend a shot at viability. With a prophet out, the deck doesn't usually have trouble using up its mana supply during each of both players' turns.
Phenax, God of Deception - As a career UB player I was crushed to see my god mill, but despite that I think Phenax is among the top tier of mill cards printed.
Consuming Aberration - Phenax's only competitor for top mill card in standard, this thing is an absolute monstrosity. If it doesn't get dealt with quickly, it can run away with games. If we have phenax out, they're dead the moment their graveyard is the size of their library, if we have both Prophet and Phenax, the turn that begins with their graveyard at a fourth of the library count is the fatal turn.
Instants and Sorceries:
Thoughtseize - This one doesn't need much introduction. We're gaining ourselves a good deal of life to offset the damage.
Golgari Charm - This is one of the more powerful and versatile charms in the cycle, our favorite use it better-than-countering Supreme Verdict
Abrupt Decay - Exceptional removal. We aren't playing much, so versatility is key.
Hero's Downfall - Again, versatility is the watchword for our minuscule amount of removal.
Planeswalkers:
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - Along with Lazav, Ashiok wagers on some good creatures hiding in our opponents' decks. The exiling on Ashiok's mill is slightly anti-synergistic, but it still moves our library depletion goal forward.
Jace, Architect of Thought - While Memory Adept is more directly beneficial to our modus operandi, Architect does well at helping to hold us through our midgame and drawing more gas.
Vraska the Unseen - Although the occasional assassin kill happens, Vraska is mostly here to function as repeatable removal.
Sideboard Choices...?
I'm really not sure what this deck wants in a sideboard, I don't fully remember what I took to the Gameday tournament, the only sideboarding decisions I found that I wanted to make there were to switch my two removal pieces for two more Golgari Charms. Recommendations on what and how to sideboard for this deck would be greatly appreciated.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions on the deck; thanks for taking the time to stop by and read.
Yeah you definitely have to build the deck around chalice. Report back on your results if you decide to play without either.
How would you go about that in modern? Legacy was very easy to optimize around chalice on one, but I feel like playing chalice in modern really requires the versatility of being able to work with it at zero, one, or two. I can't imagine a way to build a deck in modern that simultaneously doesn't mind any of those.
Also, not having a full Chalice of the Void set or some targeted discard can be dangerous, possibly consider adding one of those.
Given the general theme of the deck, and particularly my approach to it, I'm afraid to cut artifacts for discard spells; I'm pretty attached to having nearly half the deck as artifacts. However, I'm also rather afraid of Chalice of the Void; even just the one I have I tend to be wary of pulling out with Trinket Mage. I think I'm just scared to be blocking off significant chunks of my own deck.
@Muten Yoshi:
C'mon now, I've spent a lot of time justifying my Ornithopter, and I did listen to reason and cut back to just one.
Like the Jace Beleren pretending to be part of the group instead of another Lili, my Damnation and Ensnaring Bridge counts are results of availability; I'm doing what I can in that regard.
Is there an alternative Trinket you would suggest in opposition to one or more of the items you're expressing distaste for?
@SirPsychoMantis: I agree with you, I could stand to have a second EE given the range at which I can play it. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on another. Maybe forego the Ratchet Bomb for it if I do.
Hello everyone. Been tinkering with my list, and although I haven't had time to do a serious amount of playtesting yet, I've liked what I've seen in the few games it's played since.
Personally I love my Mox Opal. I like having my range on EE as wide as possible. On a related note, would anyone care to convince me that I shouldn't be running a full four Glimmervoid? I have literally never lost one to its drawback, and even hands with multiples showing up have been keepable and successful. (I am still trying to find some appropriate UB duals, so part of the Gimmervoids' purpose is just to provide fixing, but I still find that I enjoy having some access to Engineered Explosives on four and five.)
Alright; gotta go digging for my other Talismans, then.
Oof. I'm working on trading for another Lili, but that falls through I won't have a way to get more. Thirst is probably something I could stand to have. Trading Post just feels....clunky to me.
In my experience, SirPsychoMantis is correct as to the layering of effects on a 5/5'd nexus. Ultimately that comes back around to why I'm so dead-set on my Ornithopter. By no means am I attempting to discredit the power of Inkmoth as a two-turn-clock, I just want access to a more "permanent" general-purpose flyer. I should correct my earlier post amending that I don't have any particular hatred for the nexuses, they just accomplish a different goal than the thopter.
On my deck as a whole, I replaced the Glaring Spotlight (Why that was there at all I may never know) with another Pithing Needle, but cutting 3 of my Ornithopters and both Phyrexian Metamorph has left five slots open that I'm not entirely sure what to do with. With the way my list is going, what would you recommend?
@Nineteenth:
Correcting you if you are wrong: activating a Nexus makes it become artifact creature with abilities. Tezz, AoB's -1 makes the artifact, whatever it is, becomes 5/5, which doesnt negate the abilities. So with activation, Inkmoth nexus becomes a 5/5 infect flyer, until the end of turn, that is.
Yes, and therein lies my distaste for the nexuses. If I want a "sustained" 5/5 flyer, I have to use Tezzeret's -1 on the same permanent each turn I want it, and even then I will never have a 5/5 flyer to block with. Having access to ornithopter, even as a singleton in the trinket package, is having access to a 5/5 flying creature that doesn't tie up my planeswalker turn after turn.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the intreaction betwixt Tezz AoB's -1 and the nexuses is that they will stop being flying (and infect in the case of inkmoth) after one turn and simply sit as 5/5 artifact lands. Maybe this is closed-minded of me, but I'm not a fan of anything that needs to be activated and then hit with the -1 more than once to remain effective. I'll grant you that the thopters don't do much more than die if Tezz isn't around, but when he is I feel like the lands would end up dying just as often. For instance, I'd be much more upset about losing a land to damnation than a thopter. I think I have resolved to drop to just one as a Trinket target when flying is necessary, but I'm pretty resolute on holding on to an Ornithopter.
Regarding Jace Beleren: Sorcery speed is kind of a bummer, I'll give you that, but I've been really happy playing Jace. While he may be slower about doing it, he either provides me more overall card advantage as the game progresses, or he makes my opponent feel threatened enough to dedicate resources to getting him off the board. Thirst for Knowledge doesn't draw attention away from me in the same way.
Glaring Spotlight....er....yeah....that needs to go.
I'm not going to disagree with you that I could use at least one Ensnaring Bridge. Problem is simply that I can't find one to save my life, and I don't have the means to get one online.
Still not super-sold on big Tezz, but you make some compelling arguments. If it were you, how many copies would you be running?
1 Artisan of Forms
3 Pain Seer
4 Disciple of Deceit
3 Nightveil Specter
2 Agent of the Fates
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Duskmantle Seer
2 Desecration Demon
3 Thoughtseize
1 Aqueous Form
4 Hidden Strings
1 Underworld Connections
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Whip of Erebos
4 Watery Grave
8 Island
8 Swamp
Our lovely young lady is a potent toolbox engine, allowing for a variety of singletons. Hidden Strings is another powerful engine in and of itself, and with an ideal hand can lead to explosive tempo advantage as early as the second turn.
One concern I have is Whip of Erebos as my only source of life gain against four pseudo-bobs, but I'm not sure what else to use in these colours.
To anyone playing Phenax in pure UB, I HIGHLY recommend, at a minimum, a green splash for Prophet of Kruphix. She literally doubles Phenax's efficiency.
I know mill is not generally an optimal win condition; I know there's some degree of reason this deck doesn't have a significant following. Nonetheless, I find it to be the perfect mixture of grinding, defensive midrange and explosive combo kills. Although my experience with the list doesn't include much competitive play, it did scrape a top eight finish at a small BNG Gameday tournament, and it's become reviled among my local playgroup. I love this deck, so I'm going to endeavor to give it a respectable thread.
4 Breeding Pool
4 Watery Grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Forest
3 Island
3 Swamp
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Creatures (22):
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
2 Consuming Aberration
3 Phenax, God of Deception
3 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
1 Hero's Downfall
Planeswalkers (8):
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Vraska the Unseen
2 Golgari Charm
13 Something?
Card Choices:
Creatures:
Deathrite Shaman - There isn't a lot of graveyard strategy going on in standard right now, and coupled with the modern banning, DRS has been having a pretty bad year. That doesn't stop him from being an attrition monstrosity when he has food to eat. Deathrite does a great job of keeping us alive against aggro, and when our draws aren't coming up any other way he can chip at our opponent's life consistently.
Sylvan Caryatid - This is everything we could want it to be. Mana, toughness, hexproof; we love it.
Scavenging Ooze - Like DRS Ooze is amazing when given free food. It keeps us alive, and grows bigger to both fight and mill harder in doing so.
Courser of Kruphix - Courser is a king of midrange, and while this deck misses out on some of its better interactions like Domri Rade, it still provides an immense amount of value in a single card.
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - If there's any odd choice in the deck, I'd say it has to be Lazav. Standard may not exactly be EDH, but there are still quite a few powerful creatures floating around the format. Playing Lazav is betting your opponent has at least a few.
Prophet of Kruphix - I think this is the card that makes Phenax pretend a shot at viability. With a prophet out, the deck doesn't usually have trouble using up its mana supply during each of both players' turns.
Phenax, God of Deception - As a career UB player I was crushed to see my god mill, but despite that I think Phenax is among the top tier of mill cards printed.
Consuming Aberration - Phenax's only competitor for top mill card in standard, this thing is an absolute monstrosity. If it doesn't get dealt with quickly, it can run away with games. If we have phenax out, they're dead the moment their graveyard is the size of their library, if we have both Prophet and Phenax, the turn that begins with their graveyard at a fourth of the library count is the fatal turn.
Instants and Sorceries:
Thoughtseize - This one doesn't need much introduction. We're gaining ourselves a good deal of life to offset the damage.
Golgari Charm - This is one of the more powerful and versatile charms in the cycle, our favorite use it better-than-countering Supreme Verdict
Abrupt Decay - Exceptional removal. We aren't playing much, so versatility is key.
Hero's Downfall - Again, versatility is the watchword for our minuscule amount of removal.
Planeswalkers:
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - Along with Lazav, Ashiok wagers on some good creatures hiding in our opponents' decks. The exiling on Ashiok's mill is slightly anti-synergistic, but it still moves our library depletion goal forward.
Jace, Architect of Thought - While Memory Adept is more directly beneficial to our modus operandi, Architect does well at helping to hold us through our midgame and drawing more gas.
Kiora, the Crashing Wave - She helps us keep the board safe, she ramps, and Phenax or not, krakens end games.
Jace, Memory Adept - Big Jace feeds our ability to run away with games and gives our sustaining creatures plenty of food.
Vraska the Unseen - Although the occasional assassin kill happens, Vraska is mostly here to function as repeatable removal.
Sideboard Choices...?
I'm really not sure what this deck wants in a sideboard, I don't fully remember what I took to the Gameday tournament, the only sideboarding decisions I found that I wanted to make there were to switch my two removal pieces for two more Golgari Charms. Recommendations on what and how to sideboard for this deck would be greatly appreciated.
I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions on the deck; thanks for taking the time to stop by and read.
How would you go about that in modern? Legacy was very easy to optimize around chalice on one, but I feel like playing chalice in modern really requires the versatility of being able to work with it at zero, one, or two. I can't imagine a way to build a deck in modern that simultaneously doesn't mind any of those.
Given the general theme of the deck, and particularly my approach to it, I'm afraid to cut artifacts for discard spells; I'm pretty attached to having nearly half the deck as artifacts. However, I'm also rather afraid of Chalice of the Void; even just the one I have I tend to be wary of pulling out with Trinket Mage. I think I'm just scared to be blocking off significant chunks of my own deck.
C'mon now, I've spent a lot of time justifying my Ornithopter, and I did listen to reason and cut back to just one.
Like the Jace Beleren pretending to be part of the group instead of another Lili, my Damnation and Ensnaring Bridge counts are results of availability; I'm doing what I can in that regard.
Is there an alternative Trinket you would suggest in opposition to one or more of the items you're expressing distaste for?
@SirPsychoMantis: I agree with you, I could stand to have a second EE given the range at which I can play it. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on another. Maybe forego the Ratchet Bomb for it if I do.
2 Academy Ruins
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmervoid
2 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Island
3 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
Creatures: 10
4 Spellskite
4 Trinket Mage
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mox Opal
1 Ornithopter
1 Welding Jar
2 Æther Spellbomb
2 Executioner's Capsule
1 Pithing Needle
Artifacts: 7
1 Dimir Signet
3 Talisman of Dominance
1 Thopter Foundry
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Jace Beleren
1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Spells: 4
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Damnation
Personally I love my Mox Opal. I like having my range on EE as wide as possible. On a related note, would anyone care to convince me that I shouldn't be running a full four Glimmervoid? I have literally never lost one to its drawback, and even hands with multiples showing up have been keepable and successful. (I am still trying to find some appropriate UB duals, so part of the Gimmervoids' purpose is just to provide fixing, but I still find that I enjoy having some access to Engineered Explosives on four and five.)
EDIT: Typo
Oof. I'm working on trading for another Lili, but that falls through I won't have a way to get more. Thirst is probably something I could stand to have. Trading Post just feels....clunky to me.
Thanks for your help.
One more question, is the general opinion that four Talisman of Dominance is strictly better than a 2/2 split with Dimir Signet?
On my deck as a whole, I replaced the Glaring Spotlight (Why that was there at all I may never know) with another Pithing Needle, but cutting 3 of my Ornithopters and both Phyrexian Metamorph has left five slots open that I'm not entirely sure what to do with. With the way my list is going, what would you recommend?
Yes, and therein lies my distaste for the nexuses. If I want a "sustained" 5/5 flyer, I have to use Tezzeret's -1 on the same permanent each turn I want it, and even then I will never have a 5/5 flyer to block with. Having access to ornithopter, even as a singleton in the trinket package, is having access to a 5/5 flying creature that doesn't tie up my planeswalker turn after turn.
Regarding Jace Beleren: Sorcery speed is kind of a bummer, I'll give you that, but I've been really happy playing Jace. While he may be slower about doing it, he either provides me more overall card advantage as the game progresses, or he makes my opponent feel threatened enough to dedicate resources to getting him off the board. Thirst for Knowledge doesn't draw attention away from me in the same way.
Glaring Spotlight....er....yeah....that needs to go.
I'm not going to disagree with you that I could use at least one Ensnaring Bridge. Problem is simply that I can't find one to save my life, and I don't have the means to get one online.
Still not super-sold on big Tezz, but you make some compelling arguments. If it were you, how many copies would you be running?