Maybe you just really like the creatures..I get that. It just seems like you would be better served running a budget pox deck rather than this. It is really really inexpensive and actually can work quite well. I'm on my phone so linking threads is beyond this old guys abilities but maybe spooky or somebody else can show you over to a pox thread.
For prob 1 there are actually quite a few decks that dont auto include tons of artifact mana. I rarely run these beyond Sol Ring and maybe Mana Crypt/Mox Diamond/Chrome Mox. Do not assume that because you see decks with lots of this stuff that everybody is also running lots of this stuff.
For prob 2 you are falling prey to the same bad argument lots of other people here make which is "edh is multiplayer" so we can only base all assumptions about card viability off of slow paced poorly constructed casual multiplayer decks. Yes some people play this as multiplayer only...yes some people play this casually....NO it isnt ONLY a multi player format and NO it isnt only a casual format. In competitive 1v1 for example it is extremely viable to drop out a clock in the first turn or two (doesnt even have to be a super fast clock for a deck like sygg river cutthroat or edric for example) and then follow it up with mana denial in the form of geddon or a few others which leaves the opponent hopelessly behind the game.
I know that this isnt the only reason to include it and that you have to look at all angles. I just hate when people come on here assuming that people only play EDH the way they do around their kitchen table.
I really like the timing on this, with WGD being un-banned last go around and with a new set coming out that should feature at least a few new toys for grave yard based decks LED could be pretty crazy good for certain decks, especially as noted commanders who love the yard like Sharuum.
Personally I think this is a very good thing as it should hopefully help a few decks get a bit closer to being really good without instantly ruining the format in any way. I know I am excited to try and stuff this into a few lists.
"An easy solution to those of you belly aching about fast combo decks is this, let him/her go off and win then say okay you win the rest of us are going to continue playing as if you weren't part of the game"
Im not belly aching, I actually enjoy fast decks and despise playing dumbed down "casual" decks...I can play a strong deck casually with a group of friends. The problem you guys seem to have is that you assume that everybody in EDH wants to play around the dinner table with close friends. The problem is who decides what is "casual?" Who says it is up to you guys to determine that one guy has to sit out cause some random thing he did doesnt fit your narrow definition of what is fun and what is not. Removing a potential problem card like Sol Ring in this sense doesnt really punish anybody and might help avoid awkward situations in the future over what is too competitive for casual play. I mean, if your counter to this is "just shuffle up and play again if his start is broken" then why not do the same for all of the other problem cards? I think it was Binary that summed that up pretty well...if you can shuffle up cause one player accelerated into something retarded cause he got an early sol ring, then you can also shuffle up cause somebody cast an early Biorhythem (a card that isnt banned for 1v1 EDH)
It really strikes me as odd that "casual" players are defending a clearly non-casual (read: best mana acceleration in the game) card like Sol Ring. Well maybe not..I guess if all Sol Ring accelerates you into is a Craw Wurm then it isnt a problem. But who really enjoys a good game of "my vanilla creature is better than your vanilla creature?"
It seems to me like a lot of these comments on Sol Ring being not that good are based on casual playgroups with decks and themes that maybe arent built to be very powerful. Try Sol Ring again in a meta filled with degenerate combo decks and see how far ahead a turn 1 Sol Ring gets you then. You guys say "by turn 4 his permanants are burning" what if he doesnt care because by turn 4 he is comboing the entire table at once?
Not to mention Mutavault seems fairly good eh, what about Rishadan Port? There are a handful of other options out there too, Id still run your search and look for some other options as well as what he included in that list.
lol i knew this was gonna be at the RP shop...the whole idea of the event was gonna cause a lot of people to QQ and a lot of sharks to show up. If you dont like competitive decks then dont sign up for a tournament.
If you look at the competitive wort lists (like the one in the 1v1 area) you will see the lists are basically mono green with like 3 red cards only (generally kiki jiki, banefire and goblin bombardment...other options are gamble and wheel of fortune and a few more obscure ones unless you want to get into LD)
Usually you run a ton of green token makers, and some card advantage options that profit from tokens like skull clamp, slate of ancestry, collective unconsiousness regal force etc. Then you use those tokens to make a ton of mana to combo off with banefire (conspired ftw) or bombardment. The deck generally also features a handful of disruption cards usually in the LD or tempo "ld" like plow under to keep decks off their mana until you can win. Its a great deck and can be good in both 1v1 and multiplayer, although in MP sometimes board wipes can be a problem.
I think if you play more matches (assuming you have a good Edric list) then you will see the games even out a lot...Edric should be able to operate on only a few mana, and so long as you are running some amount of counters then most of his LD shouldnt even be resolving (maybe a few,but not enough to put you to 0 mana)
If you cant control his LD then its a problem...but assuming you have good edric the games where you have more counters than he has LD should count for more than the games he has lots of LD and you have no counters. Last time I was playing Azusa vs Edric it was fairly close, I think I won 3 with azusa and he took 3 or 4 with edric.
Sygg vs Azusa I havnt tested much (as I am the only one in my group with either the decks built) except vs myself (which try as I might has to be considered biased sometimes) but Sygg is probably 60-40 a favorite in that matchup....sometimes azusa is just really broken...azusa goes broken more than Sygg does as Sygg is a tempo deck and not a bomby threat/combo-ey/LD deck, and most of Azusa's wins come from those types of games.
Scion since the deck that goes with him earned the ban hammer in France. None of them on their own are particularly scary, but you can build anything imaginable with any of em.
There are a few instants you can run, but its mainly just sorcery speed LD. Boring general is boring (note I am not complaining about LD, I love LD...she is just uber 1 dimensional though when built that way)
Doran is a top tier 1v1 general...he easily gets my vote, I havnt seen any really strong mimeoplasm decks yet and the only animar I have played against seemed pretty bad. Doran is an established 1v1 house and until I see some evidence to suggest these other guys are better he gets my vote.
It really really depends on 1v1 vs Multiplayer but...
Most of what I would say has already been mentioned, but Survival, Bitterblossom, Greaves, Jitte
Dark Confidant would be much higher up the list if this were specifically for 1v1.
I hate hate hate the following assumption:
Casting bob in EDH may allow you to draw extra cards, but it comes at an unreasonable price. Keep in mind, in one turn rotation, you can get damaged from multiple players
Not everybody plays EDH the same way you do and not everybody only plays multiplayer...people need to get that out of their systems.
I've never seen a multiplayer game (with competent players) where one of the legendary Eldrazi hit, and the game is instantly over
This
and also even in 1v1 while pretty strong cards, they arent 100% game ending effects assuming they even are able to come down in time. Certainly they shouldnt be banned...the other side of the Bribery argument is that by running them you run the risk of losing to your own cards which sorta just cancels things out.
If your friend is really struggling with them then perhaps he needs to improve his deck or game-plan against you.
[quote]Problem 2[quote]
Both of these are short sighted comments.
For prob 1 there are actually quite a few decks that dont auto include tons of artifact mana. I rarely run these beyond Sol Ring and maybe Mana Crypt/Mox Diamond/Chrome Mox. Do not assume that because you see decks with lots of this stuff that everybody is also running lots of this stuff.
For prob 2 you are falling prey to the same bad argument lots of other people here make which is "edh is multiplayer" so we can only base all assumptions about card viability off of slow paced poorly constructed casual multiplayer decks. Yes some people play this as multiplayer only...yes some people play this casually....NO it isnt ONLY a multi player format and NO it isnt only a casual format. In competitive 1v1 for example it is extremely viable to drop out a clock in the first turn or two (doesnt even have to be a super fast clock for a deck like sygg river cutthroat or edric for example) and then follow it up with mana denial in the form of geddon or a few others which leaves the opponent hopelessly behind the game.
I know that this isnt the only reason to include it and that you have to look at all angles. I just hate when people come on here assuming that people only play EDH the way they do around their kitchen table.
Personally I think this is a very good thing as it should hopefully help a few decks get a bit closer to being really good without instantly ruining the format in any way. I know I am excited to try and stuff this into a few lists.
Im not belly aching, I actually enjoy fast decks and despise playing dumbed down "casual" decks...I can play a strong deck casually with a group of friends. The problem you guys seem to have is that you assume that everybody in EDH wants to play around the dinner table with close friends. The problem is who decides what is "casual?" Who says it is up to you guys to determine that one guy has to sit out cause some random thing he did doesnt fit your narrow definition of what is fun and what is not. Removing a potential problem card like Sol Ring in this sense doesnt really punish anybody and might help avoid awkward situations in the future over what is too competitive for casual play. I mean, if your counter to this is "just shuffle up and play again if his start is broken" then why not do the same for all of the other problem cards? I think it was Binary that summed that up pretty well...if you can shuffle up cause one player accelerated into something retarded cause he got an early sol ring, then you can also shuffle up cause somebody cast an early Biorhythem (a card that isnt banned for 1v1 EDH)
It really strikes me as odd that "casual" players are defending a clearly non-casual (read: best mana acceleration in the game) card like Sol Ring. Well maybe not..I guess if all Sol Ring accelerates you into is a Craw Wurm then it isnt a problem. But who really enjoys a good game of "my vanilla creature is better than your vanilla creature?"
If you look at the competitive wort lists (like the one in the 1v1 area) you will see the lists are basically mono green with like 3 red cards only (generally kiki jiki, banefire and goblin bombardment...other options are gamble and wheel of fortune and a few more obscure ones unless you want to get into LD)
Usually you run a ton of green token makers, and some card advantage options that profit from tokens like skull clamp, slate of ancestry, collective unconsiousness regal force etc. Then you use those tokens to make a ton of mana to combo off with banefire (conspired ftw) or bombardment. The deck generally also features a handful of disruption cards usually in the LD or tempo "ld" like plow under to keep decks off their mana until you can win. Its a great deck and can be good in both 1v1 and multiplayer, although in MP sometimes board wipes can be a problem.
If you cant control his LD then its a problem...but assuming you have good edric the games where you have more counters than he has LD should count for more than the games he has lots of LD and you have no counters. Last time I was playing Azusa vs Edric it was fairly close, I think I won 3 with azusa and he took 3 or 4 with edric.
Sygg vs Azusa I havnt tested much (as I am the only one in my group with either the decks built) except vs myself (which try as I might has to be considered biased sometimes) but Sygg is probably 60-40 a favorite in that matchup....sometimes azusa is just really broken...azusa goes broken more than Sygg does as Sygg is a tempo deck and not a bomby threat/combo-ey/LD deck, and most of Azusa's wins come from those types of games.
Wort is around $600
I dont do many foils though, just whatever I have around...if I have it Ill pimp it, but I dont go out of my way anymore to do so.
Most of what I would say has already been mentioned, but Survival, Bitterblossom, Greaves, Jitte
Dark Confidant would be much higher up the list if this were specifically for 1v1.
I hate hate hate the following assumption:
Not everybody plays EDH the same way you do and not everybody only plays multiplayer...people need to get that out of their systems.
This
and also even in 1v1 while pretty strong cards, they arent 100% game ending effects assuming they even are able to come down in time. Certainly they shouldnt be banned...the other side of the Bribery argument is that by running them you run the risk of losing to your own cards which sorta just cancels things out.
If your friend is really struggling with them then perhaps he needs to improve his deck or game-plan against you.