Hi guys. Long story short: I am testing this build. I feel there are maybe a little too many dinosaur which are worth only limited. 3 tutors are considered creatures for the Commander count so I was considering cutting a few more dinasaur for utility/card draw/tutor.
Hi guys. I'd like to share the awasame testing results of Cerimonius Rejection (counter colorless for U) from kaladesh. The ability of casting a t2 tasigur on the draw and still being able to answer the t3 play of a tron/eldrazi player is great, and hoping that after the ban of GGT the number of relics will go down it's a card that can be flashbacked with snapcaster.
I have never been a fan of pyromancer due to his mana cost but we need threats and despite the fact that i love vendilion i value more pyromancer's ability to win the game an his own. Pyromancer+gitaxian was nice in a world of lilianas but, playing 2-2 of them, that wasnt' happening a lot. I am testing 3 fatal push md and 1 in the side slot that was reserved to magma spray. Collective brutality is a 1-1 md sd as always despite being a pain in the ass to draw it against big mana decks, now more then ever with also fatal push being worthless. Last point is, do you side in surgical extraction against mirror? I have seen people do it but I personally wouldn't. I am already struggling in deciding what to cut from the md after having cut the 3 leaks. I'll post the list in the future for brainstorming.
It's useless late game when you topdeck it or the oppo is playing around it.
It's not what we want against super-aggressive decks.
It's not even good against combo/ramp decks, let me explain that:
it's clear to everyone why it sucks against tron/valakut, you can block the first threat if you find it early enough but later then that it sucks, cryptic just works better.
Edit: often is enough the fear of playing against mana leak for the oppo to play more carefully givin us the time to take the control of the game. Bluff is a real sh*t dudes believe me.
Which combo decks are there left?? Scapeshift and Ad nauseam. Both of the decks don't really need to rush against us, they can accumulate resources (mana and protections) and wait the last moment to do the combo. In this situation mana leak sucks.
We want to apply early pressure and sculpt our hand with cantrips, we don't want to stay open until t4 (before that they can't do a lot). That means casting an early tasigur/vendilion/snappi.
We don't want to tap out from t4 because nauseam can combo instant speed and scape can protect with counters, so it's absolutely inconceivable to tap out to play something like kalitas/pia.
We don't need to play other threats, we need to answer their play (grinding) and cast our one mana threats in the right moment.
In the moment we have control of the board and/or good card advantage we can turn the corner by pivoting tasigur.
I'll say that once again, the version that I am playing is neither a draw pass combo nor a midrange deck. It's a tempo/control deck, similar to strategy to the old grixis twin decks. Play good and cheap-mana answers and solid/effective cheap-mana/instant speed threats.
Ps: we are not cutting all the counters: 1 remand/1 negate/1 dreadbore/3 cryptic command/2 snare/1 vendilion are our only non-creature answers MD, but they are often enough to fight PWs. Post side we have a second negate, 4 fulminator (prevent is often better then to deal with) and 2 dispels (omg i love the card). What else could we need? Alright slaughter games shout down completely scape/ad nauseam but I have already pointed out the reason for my choice of playing the 4th fulminator as he's much more useful in others match ups (and I'd never tap out against tron to "deal with" (maybe he wasn't even in his hand) karn, we still have to take care of world breaker (2) and wurmcoil (2): if they reach 10 mana being still alive they can chain with sanctum 2 ugin and we are dead.
Actually I writed how to solve emeria but you would need then a second answer for the other emeria cause bouncing is not enough.
What I failed to notice is that you want him to discard instead of dmg.
Looks like you have turned the corner so I'd kolaghan to take back snapcaster and deal dmg and to race him as you have no way, in this moment, of answering emeria.
Then I'd tap + bounce snap with cryptic in order to be able of playing cryptic once more.
That line of play would leave the oppo with just the 4 life points gaint from missionary.
Hopfully you'll find another cryptic or the combination of cards to burn his life down (Or just another beater in the form of tar-pit/vendilion)
Actually i just noticed that you could have discard/dmg+snappi back and bouncing emeria eot and then flashbacking kolaghan using fulminator on the other emeria. After that you'd have needed to find another cryptic/kolaghan to answer the second emeria.
If you could write me how did you side in/out I'd like to do the math and tell you which would have been the most consistent line of play.
Kolaghan/cryptic would solve each situation.
To answer emeria you'd need to see a fulminator. 3/x * n [assuming you play 4 fulminators]
To burn him you have to find tar-pit/ snapcaster+ bolt. 2/x + 3/x*2/x = (2x + 6)/x *n [assuming you play 2 bolts]
Where x is the number of cards left in the deck and n is the number of cards you draw.
An alternative of the first option is to snap+discard, if that resolve then snap kolghan for the second snap and dmg always eot. Then on his eot cryptic to tap and bounce snap back to cryptic again the next turn.
Actually that's the winning line of play assuming he doesn't draw into counter after ponder. We are not calculating the cards we would draw so it should be the best one even if a little risky..
There's a fourth line of play that is to keep answering the creatures hoping to grind him founding the combination of fulminators/kolaghan to solve emeria, too optimistic.
What have you done and how did the game end?
Let me say that having played the mono vendilion you could have put the titan buttom and left you with the time of resolving emeria which is obv the real issue that.
Imho the good grixis player doesn't have one playstyle but adapts to the current match up and situation.
The deck beats almost everything.
The though match ups are combo/tron and surge zoo. I need to test those more.
I like the mono vendilion instead of the 4th cryptic because she allows us to take a more proactive play when we need to make pressione against combo decks/tron while cryptic can be negated (pact) or remanded as it costs 4 big mana. Vendilion can be cast on t3 without any fear because no one of those deck can win on t3.
(Ad nauseam with a very lucky draw)
We are gona see at least one copy of cryptic in the middle game as we are playing 3 of them but, as kolaghan command, having one in the starting hand doesnt't feel great as we'discussed like to answer creatures or remand/negate problematic spells.
That's not to convince you, it's just to explain you my process of thinking that brought me to this choice. Oh also you can (and want) cast her t3 against jeskay to see what they have and, if they kill her you can bring her back with kolaghan the turn before (eot) ancestral resolve: bottlenecking!
Tron:
Side out: 2 spell snare, 1 terminate, 2 bolt
Side in: 4 fulminator, 1 negate
Ad nauseam:
Side in: 4 fulminator, negate, 2 dispel (non sidate gli spellskite!! Bastano 10 terre per ucciderci e ci facciamo già male da soli).
Side out: 3 terminate, dread bore, 2 snare, 1 bolt
Scapeshift:
Side in: 4 fulminator, 2 dispel, 1 negate (I don't suggest spellskite which only block the 6 lands combo)
Side out: 3 terminate, 1 dreadbore, 2 bolt, 1 thought scour
Infect:
Side in: 2 dispel, izzet staticaster, 2 spellskite, 2 anger.
Side out: negate, remand, 4 ancestral vision, vendilion
Melira company:
Side in: 2 angeer, 2 dispel, ee, izzet staticaster
Side out: negate, remand, dreadbore, 3 cryptic
(out the cryptics instead of the visons because they are not very fast, we must concern only about the combo)
Jund:
Side in: 4 fulminator
Side out: remand, negate, 1 thought scour, vendilion
Jeskay:
On the play:
Side in: 4 fulminator, 2 dispel, 1 negate
Side out: 3 terminate, 2 bolt, vendilion, dreadbore
On the draw (I have never tried this side choice but I was feeling like if they counter our t3 fulminator then we want a dreadbore to answer nahiri, still I'd like to hear your opinion about it as dreadbore being sorcery can't answer colonnade)
Side in: 3 fulminator, 2 dispel, 1 negate
Side out: 3 terminate, 2 bolt, vendilion
Bant eldrazi:(as you see I chose the same sd plan as jund, it would be nice to side in also anger of the gods, what would you cut? probably 2 cryptics but I'd like to hear your opinion)
Side in: 4 fulminator
Side out: negate, remand, 2 spell snare
Merfolk:
Side in: 2 Anger of the gods, 1 Cryptic Incursion (pay attention to Relic of Progenitus), 1 Izzet Staticaster, 1 EE
Side out: 1 Negate, 1 Remand, 2 Cryptic Command (we keep the spell snares because of Spreeding Sees, post SD they side in 4 Tectonic Edge and we need the right sources of mana to cast our removals/sweepers.
Visions are not useless in those match ups. Off course you want to side them out g2 but g1 you want to see them the sooner possible so that after you stabilised the board you can refill the hand with answers and hopefully turning the corner safely.
Edit: you should also consider that jund is probably the most played deck along with me lira right now, affinity and burn are going down on metagame percentage so you want to have 4 visions imho.
Regarding the affinity match up. It's already a good one and you don't need to waste SD slots for artifacts hate. I side in 2 spells kite for arcbound ravaged and most important to block etched champion.
I side out: 1 vendilion, 4 visions, remand, negate, 1 cryptic
Side in: 2 skite, 1 ee, 2 anger, 1 izzet, 1 cryptic incursion
Skite + ee are the only answer to a resolved etched.
Edit: I have been playing affinity for 10 years so I feel confident in saying it's the match up I know the best to play against. As I am in a partnership with 2 buddies for building decks with less money I have tested the grixis-affinity match up way too much.
Edit2: I'll share my side choices also for other match ups to discuss them.
Hi, I run 4 visions 3 cryptic and 1 vendilion cause you want to see vision as soon as possible, cryptic on the other hand is useless until t4 and after that you can snap it.
Tasigur as you might know come often t2 in order to apply early pressure in match ups were the opportunity doesn'the interact a lot or he just blocks light creatures in aggro match ups.
This deck doesn'the play draw go until it has stabilised the board via removals (in aggro match ups), we play 11 removals and 12 draw spells, the only 2cc counters are remand and negate.
Negate is there to solve the pw problems, you can'take just hope you have the dmg to take them down. Even if the oppo doesn't play PWs every deck plays a certain number of non-c spells. (Company above all). Nevertheless if your meta is slower you can play remand instead of Negate to remove one vision counter and make land drop, I prefer to have an answer to a dangerous threat as we are a control deck and not a tempo one.
With coey's list I lost one round on 8 against burn. It just needs some practice.
I have already answered regarding crumble to dust/fulminator in another post.
I don't want to add any other threat in the deck because I should cut some removal and not playing creatures in the early game leaves the oppo with some unused removals which we can answer later when we have stabilised the board and we can protect our threats properly.
Different story is for vendilion.
I often play her (them?) At the eot/change of draw step of the t3 because even if she gets bolted I have used her abilities and I can take advantage of kolaghan to kill a creature/discard (aggro/combo) taking her back (kolaghan eot against control in the turn before ancestral became available).
I have tested quite a lot in the last days and I got a say that thet'so a very strong line of play.
Hi. Between fulminato and crumble to dust I choose fulminato because he is much more useful in the jund/ad nauseam/jeskay/scapeshift/eld razionale match ups. Also you can take him back from the gym with kola ghanem, many times I had no fulminato in my hand and after having milled one with thought scour I was able to take him back with kolaghan, that can be done in the eot of 4th turn and you can cast fulminato on the. Flashback Ing with snap caster a milled crumble to dust in turn 6th could be too late playing against tron. And as I already said crumble to dust is quite useless against jund/jeskay/ad nauseam (scapeshift would suffer a lot crumble but it has to resolve..); jund is probably the most played deck right now and the sum of the quoted decks is a % way higher then tron.
Cryptic command is a fixed 3x. It'seems so good in every match up my there are just a few where I would side it out (and they are not infect/burn as you might think), the versatile of command is too good. I'am playing one vendilion just because she exists and she has the same function against combo/control while we have such a big amount of removals that aggro match ups are already good (except eldrazi), if vendilion didn'the exist I'd have played 4 cryptic.
I am writing a match ups analysis and side in/out guide in an Italian forum, if you want I can translate it and post it here.
Land
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Blood Crypt
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard:
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
I guess you have seen the list that made top 8 at grand prix los angeles, if you didn't, now you do.
I have abbandoned grixis before eldrazi time because i thought the meta was too linear-oriented for this deck to win, while modern is still linear-oriented, know we got ancestral vision, eldrazi is gone so he has a lot less bad match ups. Tron (you won't agree) is still annoying and burn is a nightmare but as you noticed they don't have such an high metagame percentage.
So my choices are, stick to grishoalbrand, the deck that I'm playing right now (i still think playing linear/non-interactive decks is the way to win modern) or jump back to grixis, what suggested me I could do so?
First, I love and hate mana leak, everyone expect it and it sucks when you can't cast it (to aggressive) or when you face ramp decks, this deck plays 0 mana leaks. It plays one remand, good against 2> mana cards, snapcaster, visions (they are a few but it's worth saying they exist) and delve cards (became immense above all). The mono negate is there as an answer to PW, i guess, but not only: i really like it because without leaks ad nauseam became much stronger. The mono dreadbore, somebody saw it coming and he was right, it's good: when you are cutting your counters for removal and visions you need an answer to PW. If you leave liliana from BGx the match up became much easier, same is true for jeskay and tron (tron I think is still annoying but you can bounce an early wurmcoil while racing with tasigur).
Now after I finished to point what I like from the list let's say what I'd modify and test. I don't like the 4 cryptic. It's still a time walk against aggro and it bounces wurmcoils but I feel like 3 of them is where I want to be. I'd probably add 1 vendilion because I always loved having one copy MD in almost every single match up. Then I'm not sure if I want to go 2 tasigur-1 frog instead of 3 tasigur: the main point here is that he wants to be able to cast tasigur t2 consistently when you are facing a deck you need to race: tron/burn/combo and so on, you can't just counter their spells because they have inevitability. I'll probably test it with 3 tasigur, if one is living you are probably already in a good shape.
Now let's take a look at the SB, i know i know, we have to build it thinking about our own meta or the meta we expect at the gp, but right now I don't have much time to play so I'll just build one generic SB and modify it with the card I own if I feel like the local meta is shifting.
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
it's not very different from the SD I had before, what I don't like? Sun Droplet, I really don't. I don't think you have the time to take advantage of it's upsides compared to dragon's claw, I'd play the claw or the 3rd dispel. Slaughter games is a good card but I don't know in how many match would I side it in, but I am ready to change my mind: in which match ups would you play it? Cryptic Incursion, the card is not that bad, actually I changed my mind while I was writing, still, one question for you guys: when would you side it in? I don't think that burn has enough creatures, it would be a nice answer to kitchen finks, maybe affinity? In all this match ups I'd prefer to have a bolt/terminate to prevent the dmg instead of healing while staying behind on tempo...I am still confused about the card.
I'd like to discuss with you how to side in/out the T1 match ups in detail after I'll have tested it.
Thanks very much for every answer/opinion, the deck has the potential to do well, let's refine it together.
I tested a lot recently and I realzied what slaughter games is for, ad nauseam (obv) and scapeshift, 2 not really good match ups, I wouldn't side it it against tron so I need to test if I can beat tron without thoughtseize (which replaced slaughter games in my list).
What do you think?
Land
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Blood Crypt
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard:
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
I guess you have seen the list that made top 8 at grand prix los angeles, if you didn't, now you do.
I have abbandoned grixis before eldrazi time because i thought the meta was too linear-oriented for this deck to win, while modern is still linear-oriented, know we got ancestral vision, eldrazi is gone so he has a lot less bad match ups. Tron (you won't agree) is still annoying and burn is a nightmare but as you noticed they don't have such an high metagame percentage.
So my choices are, stick to grishoalbrand, the deck that I'm playing right now (i still think playing linear/non-interactive decks is the way to win modern) or jump back to grixis, what suggested me I could do so?
First, I love and hate mana leak, everyone expect it and it sucks when you can't cast it (to aggressive) or when you face ramp decks, this deck plays 0 mana leaks. It plays one remand, good against 2> mana cards, snapcaster, visions (they are a few but it's worth saying they exist) and delve cards (became immense above all). The mono negate is there as an answer to PW, i guess, but not only: i really like it because without leaks ad nauseam became much stronger. The mono dreadbore, somebody saw it coming and he was right, it's good: when you are cutting your counters for removal and visions you need an answer to PW. If you leave liliana from BGx the match up became much easier, same is true for jeskay and tron (tron I think is still annoying but you can bounce an early wurmcoil while racing with tasigur).
Now after I finished to point what I like from the list let's say what I'd modify and test. I don't like the 4 cryptic. It's still a time walk against aggro and it bounces wurmcoils but I feel like 3 of them is where I want to be. I'd probably add 1 vendilion because I always loved having one copy MD in almost every single match up. Then I'm not sure if I want to go 2 tasigur-1 frog instead of 3 tasigur: the main point here is that he wants to be able to cast tasigur t2 consistently when you are facing a deck you need to race: tron/burn/combo and so on, you can't just counter their spells because they have inevitability. I'll probably test it with 3 tasigur, if one is living you are probably already in a good shape.
Now let's take a look at the SB, i know i know, we have to build it thinking about our own meta or the meta we expect at the gp, but right now I don't have much time to play so I'll just build one generic SB and modify it with the card I own if I feel like the local meta is shifting.
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
it's not very different from the SD I had before, what I don't like? Sun Droplet, I really don't. I don't think you have the time to take advantage of it's upsides compared to dragon's claw, I'd play the claw or the 3rd dispel. Slaughter games is a good card but I don't know in how many match would I side it in, but I am ready to change my mind: in which match ups would you play it? Cryptic Incursion, the card is not that bad, actually I changed my mind while I was writing, still, one question for you guys: when would you side it in? I don't think that burn has enough creatures, it would be a nice answer to kitchen finks, maybe affinity? In all this match ups I'd prefer to have a bolt/terminate to prevent the dmg instead of healing while staying behind on tempo...I am still confused about the card.
I'd like to discuss with you how to side in/out the T1 match ups in detail after I'll have tested it.
Thanks very much for every answer/opinion, the deck has the potential to do well, let's refine it together.
I tested a lot recently and I realzied what slaughter games is for, ad nauseam (obv) and scapeshift, 2 not really good match ups, I wouldn't side it it against tron so I need to test if I can beat tron without thoughtseize (which replaced slaughter games in my list).
What do you think?
What a polite forum, in one week not even an answer. You are discussing more a grixis midrange then control, maybe you should change the name of the post.
Land
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Blood Crypt
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard:
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
I guess you have seen the list that made top 8 at grand prix los angeles, if you didn't, now you do.
I have abbandoned grixis before eldrazi time because i thought the meta was too linear-oriented for this deck to win, while modern is still linear-oriented, know we got ancestral vision, eldrazi is gone so he has a lot less bad match ups. Tron (you won't agree) is still annoying and burn is a nightmare but as you noticed they don't have such an high metagame percentage.
So my choices are, stick to grishoalbrand, the deck that I'm playing right now (i still think playing linear/non-interactive decks is the way to win modern) or jump back to grixis, what suggested me I could do so?
First, I love and hate mana leak, everyone expect it and it sucks when you can't cast it (to aggressive) or when you face ramp decks, this deck plays 0 mana leaks. It plays one remand, good against 2> mana cards, snapcaster, visions (they are a few but it's worth saying they exist) and delve cards (became immense above all). The mono negate is there as an answer to PW, i guess, but not only: i really like it because without leaks ad nauseam became much stronger. The mono dreadbore, somebody saw it coming and he was right, it's good: when you are cutting your counters for removal and visions you need an answer to PW. If you leave liliana from BGx the match up became much easier, same is true for jeskay and tron (tron I think is still annoying but you can bounce an early wurmcoil while racing with tasigur).
Now after I finished to point what I like from the list let's say what I'd modify and test. I don't like the 4 cryptic. It's still a time walk against aggro and it bounces wurmcoils but I feel like 3 of them is where I want to be. I'd probably add 1 vendilion because I always loved having one copy MD in almost every single match up. Then I'm not sure if I want to go 2 tasigur-1 frog instead of 3 tasigur: the main point here is that he wants to be able to cast tasigur t2 consistently when you are facing a deck you need to race: tron/burn/combo and so on, you can't just counter their spells because they have inevitability. I'll probably test it with 3 tasigur, if one is living you are probably already in a good shape.
Now let's take a look at the SB, i know i know, we have to build it thinking about our own meta or the meta we expect at the gp, but right now I don't have much time to play so I'll just build one generic SB and modify it with the card I own if I feel like the local meta is shifting.
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
it's not very different from the SD I had before, what I don't like? Sun Droplet, I really don't. I don't think you have the time to take advantage of it's upsides compared to dragon's claw, I'd play the claw or the 3rd dispel. Slaughter games is a good card but I don't know in how many match would I side it in, but I am ready to change my mind: in which match ups would you play it? Cryptic Incursion, the card is not that bad, actually I changed my mind while I was writing, still, one question for you guys: when would you side it in? I don't think that burn has enough creatures, it would be a nice answer to kitchen finks, maybe affinity? In all this match ups I'd prefer to have a bolt/terminate to prevent the dmg instead of healing while staying behind on tempo...I am still confused about the card.
I'd like to discuss with you how to side in/out the T1 match ups in detail after I'll have tested it.
Thanks very much for every answer/opinion, the deck has the potential to do well, let's refine it together.
I tested a lot recently and I realzied what slaughter games is for, ad nauseam (obv) and scapeshift, 2 not really good match ups, I wouldn't side it it against tron so I need to test if I can beat tron without thoughtseize (which replaced slaughter games in my list).
What do you think?
Land
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Blood Crypt
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard:
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
I guess you have seen the list that made top 8 at grand prix los angeles, if you didn't, now you do.
I have abbandoned grixis before eldrazi time because i thought the meta was too linear-oriented for this deck to win, while modern is still linear-oriented, know we got ancestral vision, eldrazi is gone so he has a lot less bad match ups. Tron (you won't agree) is still annoying and burn is a nightmare but as you noticed they don't have such an high metagame percentage.
So my choices are, stick to grishoalbrand, the deck that I'm playing right now (i still think playing linear/non-interactive decks is the way to win modern) or jump back to grixis, what suggested me I could do so?
First, I love and hate mana leak, everyone expect it and it sucks when you can't cast it (to aggressive) or when you face ramp decks, this deck plays 0 mana leaks. It plays one remand, good against 2> mana cards, snapcaster, visions (they are a few but it's worth saying they exist) and delve cards (became immense above all). The mono negate is there as an answer to PW, i guess, but not only: i really like it because without leaks ad nauseam became much stronger. The mono dreadbore, somebody saw it coming and he was right, it's good: when you are cutting your counters for removal and visions you need an answer to PW. If you leave liliana from BGx the match up became much easier, same is true for jeskay and tron (tron I think is still annoying but you can bounce an early wurmcoil while racing with tasigur).
Now after I finished to point what I like from the list let's say what I'd modify and test. I don't like the 4 cryptic. It's still a time walk against aggro and it bounces wurmcoils but I feel like 3 of them is where I want to be. I'd probably add 1 vendilion because I always loved having one copy MD in almost every single match up. Then I'm not sure if I want to go 2 tasigur-1 frog instead of 3 tasigur: the main point here is that he wants to be able to cast tasigur t2 consistently when you are facing a deck you need to race: tron/burn/combo and so on, you can't just counter their spells because they have inevitability. I'll probably test it with 3 tasigur, if one is living you are probably already in a good shape.
Now let's take a look at the SB, i know i know, we have to build it thinking about our own meta or the meta we expect at the gp, but right now I don't have much time to play so I'll just build one generic SB and modify it with the card I own if I feel like the local meta is shifting.
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
it's not very different from the SD I had before, what I don't like? Sun Droplet, I really don't. I don't think you have the time to take advantage of it's upsides compared to dragon's claw, I'd play the claw or the 3rd dispel. Slaughter games is a good card but I don't know in how many match would I side it in, but I am ready to change my mind: in which match ups would you play it? Cryptic Incursion, the card is not that bad, actually I changed my mind while I was writing, still, one question for you guys: when would you side it in? I don't think that burn has enough creatures, it would be a nice answer to kitchen finks, maybe affinity? In all this match ups I'd prefer to have a bolt/terminate to prevent the dmg instead of healing while staying behind on tempo...I am still confused about the card.
I'd like to discuss with you how to side in/out the T1 match ups in detail after I'll have tested it.
Thanks very much for every answer/opinion, the deck has the potential to do well, let's refine it together.
// gishath v1
// 6 Artifact
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sol Ring
1 Boros Signet
1 Gruul Signet
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
// 32 Creature
1 Ancient Brontodon
1 Bellowing Aegisaur
1 Burning Sun's Avatar
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Charging Monstrosaur
1 Colossal Dreadmaw
1 Deathgorge Scavenger
1 Fungusaur
1 Goring Ceratops
1 Imperial Aerosaur
1 Imperiosaur
1 Kinjalli's Sunwing
1 Mirror Entity
1 Nest Robber
1 Raging Swordtooth
1 Rampaging Ferocidon
1 Ranging Raptors
1 Raptor Companion
1 Raptor Hatchling
1 Regisaur Alpha
1 Ripjaw Raptor
1 Sky Terror
1 Snapping Sailback
1 Spike-Tailed Ceratops
1 Steadfast Armasaur
1 Sun-Crowned Hunters
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Territorial Hammerskull
1 Thundering Spineback
1 Verdant Sun's Avatar
1 Wakening Sun's Avatar
1 Aether Flash
1 Cream of the Crop
1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
1 Lurking Predators
1 Sneak Attack
1 Steely Resolve
1 Sylvan Library
1 Asceticism
1 Mirari's Wake
// 4 Instant
1 Congregation at Dawn
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Summoning Trap
1 Swords to Plowshares
/ 38 Land
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Boros Garrison
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Gruul Turf
1 Command Tower
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Gaea's Cradle
5 Forest
4 Plains
4 Mountain
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Domri Rade
// 9 Sorcery
1 Cultivate
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Savage Stomp
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 See the Unwritten
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Council's Judgment
// 13 Cuts + Commander
// 4 Creature
1 Gishath, Sun's Avatar
1 Ravenous Daggertooth
1 Thrash of Raptors
1 Ridgetop Raptor
// 5 Enchantment
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Marshal's Anthem
1 Shapers' Sanctuary
1 Kindred Boon
1 Aura Shards
// 2 Instant
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Path to Exile
// 2 Sorcery
1 Kindred Charge
1 Rile
14 Creature
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand
16 Instant
3 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Nourishing Shoal
1 Noxious Revival
4 Through the Breach
2 Mountain
5 Swamp
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Temple of Malice
11 Sorcery
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
3 Night's Whisper
4 Enchantment
4 Blood Moon
7 Instant
4 Pact of Negation
3 Sudden Shock
2 Land
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Gemstone Caverns
3 Sorcery
2 Shatterstorm
this is the list that reached the top 8 at the last scg.
Do you have any idea of why the mono Gemstone Caverns in the sd?! It doesn't make any sense to me.
I have never been a fan of pyromancer due to his mana cost but we need threats and despite the fact that i love vendilion i value more pyromancer's ability to win the game an his own. Pyromancer+gitaxian was nice in a world of lilianas but, playing 2-2 of them, that wasnt' happening a lot. I am testing 3 fatal push md and 1 in the side slot that was reserved to magma spray. Collective brutality is a 1-1 md sd as always despite being a pain in the ass to draw it against big mana decks, now more then ever with also fatal push being worthless. Last point is, do you side in surgical extraction against mirror? I have seen people do it but I personally wouldn't. I am already struggling in deciding what to cut from the md after having cut the 3 leaks. I'll post the list in the future for brainstorming.
- It's useless late game when you topdeck it or the oppo is playing around it.
- It's not what we want against super-aggressive decks.
- It's not even good against combo/ramp decks, let me explain that:
it's clear to everyone why it sucks against tron/valakut, you can block the first threat if you find it early enough but later then that it sucks, cryptic just works better.Edit: often is enough the fear of playing against mana leak for the oppo to play more carefully givin us the time to take the control of the game. Bluff is a real sh*t dudes believe me.
Which combo decks are there left?? Scapeshift and Ad nauseam. Both of the decks don't really need to rush against us, they can accumulate resources (mana and protections) and wait the last moment to do the combo. In this situation mana leak sucks.
We want to apply early pressure and sculpt our hand with cantrips, we don't want to stay open until t4 (before that they can't do a lot). That means casting an early tasigur/vendilion/snappi.
We don't want to tap out from t4 because nauseam can combo instant speed and scape can protect with counters, so it's absolutely inconceivable to tap out to play something like kalitas/pia.
We don't need to play other threats, we need to answer their play (grinding) and cast our one mana threats in the right moment.
In the moment we have control of the board and/or good card advantage we can turn the corner by pivoting tasigur.
I'll say that once again, the version that I am playing is neither a draw pass combo nor a midrange deck. It's a tempo/control deck, similar to strategy to the old grixis twin decks. Play good and cheap-mana answers and solid/effective cheap-mana/instant speed threats.
Ps: we are not cutting all the counters: 1 remand/1 negate/1 dreadbore/3 cryptic command/2 snare/1 vendilion are our only non-creature answers MD, but they are often enough to fight PWs. Post side we have a second negate, 4 fulminator (prevent is often better then to deal with) and 2 dispels (omg i love the card). What else could we need? Alright slaughter games shout down completely scape/ad nauseam but I have already pointed out the reason for my choice of playing the 4th fulminator as he's much more useful in others match ups (and I'd never tap out against tron to "deal with" (maybe he wasn't even in his hand) karn, we still have to take care of world breaker (2) and wurmcoil (2): if they reach 10 mana being still alive they can chain with sanctum 2 ugin and we are dead.
What I failed to notice is that you want him to discard instead of dmg.
Then I'd tap + bounce snap with cryptic in order to be able of playing cryptic once more.
That line of play would leave the oppo with just the 4 life points gaint from missionary.
Hopfully you'll find another cryptic or the combination of cards to burn his life down (Or just another beater in the form of tar-pit/vendilion)
Actually i just noticed that you could have discard/dmg+snappi back and bouncing emeria eot and then flashbacking kolaghan using fulminator on the other emeria. After that you'd have needed to find another cryptic/kolaghan to answer the second emeria.
If you could write me how did you side in/out I'd like to do the math and tell you which would have been the most consistent line of play.
Kolaghan/cryptic would solve each situation.
To answer emeria you'd need to see a fulminator. 3/x * n [assuming you play 4 fulminators]
To burn him you have to find tar-pit/ snapcaster+ bolt. 2/x + 3/x*2/x = (2x + 6)/x *n [assuming you play 2 bolts]
Where x is the number of cards left in the deck and n is the number of cards you draw.
An alternative of the first option is to snap+discard, if that resolve then snap kolghan for the second snap and dmg always eot. Then on his eot cryptic to tap and bounce snap back to cryptic again the next turn.
Actually that's the winning line of play assuming he doesn't draw into counter after ponder. We are not calculating the cards we would draw so it should be the best one even if a little risky..
There's a fourth line of play that is to keep answering the creatures hoping to grind him founding the combination of fulminators/kolaghan to solve emeria, too optimistic.
What have you done and how did the game end?
Let me say that having played the mono vendilion you could have put the titan buttom and left you with the time of resolving emeria which is obv the real issue that.
Imho the good grixis player doesn't have one playstyle but adapts to the current match up and situation.
The though match ups are combo/tron and surge zoo. I need to test those more.
I like the mono vendilion instead of the 4th cryptic because she allows us to take a more proactive play when we need to make pressione against combo decks/tron while cryptic can be negated (pact) or remanded as it costs 4 big mana. Vendilion can be cast on t3 without any fear because no one of those deck can win on t3.
(Ad nauseam with a very lucky draw)
We are gona see at least one copy of cryptic in the middle game as we are playing 3 of them but, as kolaghan command, having one in the starting hand doesnt't feel great as we'discussed like to answer creatures or remand/negate problematic spells.
That's not to convince you, it's just to explain you my process of thinking that brought me to this choice. Oh also you can (and want) cast her t3 against jeskay to see what they have and, if they kill her you can bring her back with kolaghan the turn before (eot) ancestral resolve: bottlenecking!
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Vendilion Clique
Sorcery
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Serum Visions
1 Dreadbore
Instant
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Remand
1 Negate
3 Terminate
3 Kolaghan's Command
3 Cryptic Command
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Blood Crypt
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
Burn:
Side out: 4 ancestral vision, 1 negate, 1 remand.
Side in: 2 dispel, 2 spellskite, 1 sun droplet, 1 cryptic incursion
Affinity:
side out: 1 vendilion, 4 visions, remand, negate, 1 cryptic
Side in: 2 skite, 1 ee, 2 anger, 1 izzet, 1 cryptic incursion
Tron:
Side out: 2 spell snare, 1 terminate, 2 bolt
Side in: 4 fulminator, 1 negate
Ad nauseam:
Side in: 4 fulminator, negate, 2 dispel (non sidate gli spellskite!! Bastano 10 terre per ucciderci e ci facciamo già male da soli).
Side out: 3 terminate, dread bore, 2 snare, 1 bolt
Scapeshift:
Side in: 4 fulminator, 2 dispel, 1 negate (I don't suggest spellskite which only block the 6 lands combo)
Side out: 3 terminate, 1 dreadbore, 2 bolt, 1 thought scour
Infect:
Side in: 2 dispel, izzet staticaster, 2 spellskite, 2 anger.
Side out: negate, remand, 4 ancestral vision, vendilion
Melira company:
Side in: 2 angeer, 2 dispel, ee, izzet staticaster
Side out: negate, remand, dreadbore, 3 cryptic
(out the cryptics instead of the visons because they are not very fast, we must concern only about the combo)
Jund:
Side in: 4 fulminator
Side out: remand, negate, 1 thought scour, vendilion
Jeskay:
On the play:
Side in: 4 fulminator, 2 dispel, 1 negate
Side out: 3 terminate, 2 bolt, vendilion, dreadbore
On the draw (I have never tried this side choice but I was feeling like if they counter our t3 fulminator then we want a dreadbore to answer nahiri, still I'd like to hear your opinion about it as dreadbore being sorcery can't answer colonnade)
Side in: 3 fulminator, 2 dispel, 1 negate
Side out: 3 terminate, 2 bolt, vendilion
Dredgegavine:
Side in: izzet staticaster, 2 anger, 4 fulminator, cryptic incursion
Side out: 1 cryptic, 1 ancestral vision, 3 terminate, dreadbore, negate, vendilion, 2 snare
Bant eldrazi:(as you see I chose the same sd plan as jund, it would be nice to side in also anger of the gods, what would you cut? probably 2 cryptics but I'd like to hear your opinion)
Side in: 4 fulminator
Side out: negate, remand, 2 spell snare
Merfolk:
Side in: 2 Anger of the gods, 1 Cryptic Incursion (pay attention to Relic of Progenitus), 1 Izzet Staticaster, 1 EE
Side out: 1 Negate, 1 Remand, 2 Cryptic Command (we keep the spell snares because of Spreeding Sees, post SD they side in 4 Tectonic Edge and we need the right sources of mana to cast our removals/sweepers.
Edit: you should also consider that jund is probably the most played deck along with me lira right now, affinity and burn are going down on metagame percentage so you want to have 4 visions imho.
Regarding the affinity match up. It's already a good one and you don't need to waste SD slots for artifacts hate. I side in 2 spells kite for arcbound ravaged and most important to block etched champion.
I side out: 1 vendilion, 4 visions, remand, negate, 1 cryptic
Side in: 2 skite, 1 ee, 2 anger, 1 izzet, 1 cryptic incursion
Skite + ee are the only answer to a resolved etched.
Edit: I have been playing affinity for 10 years so I feel confident in saying it's the match up I know the best to play against. As I am in a partnership with 2 buddies for building decks with less money I have tested the grixis-affinity match up way too much.
Edit2: I'll share my side choices also for other match ups to discuss them.
Tasigur as you might know come often t2 in order to apply early pressure in match ups were the opportunity doesn'the interact a lot or he just blocks light creatures in aggro match ups.
This deck doesn'the play draw go until it has stabilised the board via removals (in aggro match ups), we play 11 removals and 12 draw spells, the only 2cc counters are remand and negate.
Negate is there to solve the pw problems, you can'take just hope you have the dmg to take them down. Even if the oppo doesn't play PWs every deck plays a certain number of non-c spells. (Company above all). Nevertheless if your meta is slower you can play remand instead of Negate to remove one vision counter and make land drop, I prefer to have an answer to a dangerous threat as we are a control deck and not a tempo one.
With coey's list I lost one round on 8 against burn. It just needs some practice.
I have already answered regarding crumble to dust/fulminator in another post.
I don't want to add any other threat in the deck because I should cut some removal and not playing creatures in the early game leaves the oppo with some unused removals which we can answer later when we have stabilised the board and we can protect our threats properly.
Different story is for vendilion.
I often play her (them?) At the eot/change of draw step of the t3 because even if she gets bolted I have used her abilities and I can take advantage of kolaghan to kill a creature/discard (aggro/combo) taking her back (kolaghan eot against control in the turn before ancestral became available).
I have tested quite a lot in the last days and I got a say that thet'so a very strong line of play.
Cryptic command is a fixed 3x. It'seems so good in every match up my there are just a few where I would side it out (and they are not infect/burn as you might think), the versatile of command is too good. I'am playing one vendilion just because she exists and she has the same function against combo/control while we have such a big amount of removals that aggro match ups are already good (except eldrazi), if vendilion didn'the exist I'd have played 4 cryptic.
I am writing a match ups analysis and side in/out guide in an Italian forum, if you want I can translate it and post it here.
What a polite forum, in one week not even an answer. You are discussing more a grixis midrange then control, maybe you should change the name of the post.
I tested a lot recently and I realzied what slaughter games is for, ad nauseam (obv) and scapeshift, 2 not really good match ups, I wouldn't side it it against tron so I need to test if I can beat tron without thoughtseize (which replaced slaughter games in my list).
What do you think?
Top 8
Creature
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sorcery
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Serum Visions
1 Dreadbore
Instant
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Remand
1 Negate
3 Terminate
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Cryptic Command
Land
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Blood Crypt
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard:
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
I guess you have seen the list that made top 8 at grand prix los angeles, if you didn't, now you do.
I have abbandoned grixis before eldrazi time because i thought the meta was too linear-oriented for this deck to win, while modern is still linear-oriented, know we got ancestral vision, eldrazi is gone so he has a lot less bad match ups. Tron (you won't agree) is still annoying and burn is a nightmare but as you noticed they don't have such an high metagame percentage.
So my choices are, stick to grishoalbrand, the deck that I'm playing right now (i still think playing linear/non-interactive decks is the way to win modern) or jump back to grixis, what suggested me I could do so?
First, I love and hate mana leak, everyone expect it and it sucks when you can't cast it (to aggressive) or when you face ramp decks, this deck plays 0 mana leaks. It plays one remand, good against 2> mana cards, snapcaster, visions (they are a few but it's worth saying they exist) and delve cards (became immense above all). The mono negate is there as an answer to PW, i guess, but not only: i really like it because without leaks ad nauseam became much stronger. The mono dreadbore, somebody saw it coming and he was right, it's good: when you are cutting your counters for removal and visions you need an answer to PW. If you leave liliana from BGx the match up became much easier, same is true for jeskay and tron (tron I think is still annoying but you can bounce an early wurmcoil while racing with tasigur).
Now after I finished to point what I like from the list let's say what I'd modify and test. I don't like the 4 cryptic. It's still a time walk against aggro and it bounces wurmcoils but I feel like 3 of them is where I want to be. I'd probably add 1 vendilion because I always loved having one copy MD in almost every single match up. Then I'm not sure if I want to go 2 tasigur-1 frog instead of 3 tasigur: the main point here is that he wants to be able to cast tasigur t2 consistently when you are facing a deck you need to race: tron/burn/combo and so on, you can't just counter their spells because they have inevitability. I'll probably test it with 3 tasigur, if one is living you are probably already in a good shape.
Now let's take a look at the SB, i know i know, we have to build it thinking about our own meta or the meta we expect at the gp, but right now I don't have much time to play so I'll just build one generic SB and modify it with the card I own if I feel like the local meta is shifting.
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Slaughter Games
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sun Droplet
2 Spellskite
it's not very different from the SD I had before, what I don't like? Sun Droplet, I really don't. I don't think you have the time to take advantage of it's upsides compared to dragon's claw, I'd play the claw or the 3rd dispel. Slaughter games is a good card but I don't know in how many match would I side it in, but I am ready to change my mind: in which match ups would you play it? Cryptic Incursion, the card is not that bad, actually I changed my mind while I was writing, still, one question for you guys: when would you side it in? I don't think that burn has enough creatures, it would be a nice answer to kitchen finks, maybe affinity? In all this match ups I'd prefer to have a bolt/terminate to prevent the dmg instead of healing while staying behind on tempo...I am still confused about the card.
I'd like to discuss with you how to side in/out the T1 match ups in detail after I'll have tested it.
Thanks very much for every answer/opinion, the deck has the potential to do well, let's refine it together.