Curse, you've convinced me that my argument is wrong by telling me other people agree with me!
Heeeeeeelarious. Maybe try to construct an argument rather than appeal to popularity. Because that's a non-argument. A nongument, if you will.
Also:
Did you even watch the scene? Mace isn't murdering Palpatine without due process - he is literally fighting for his life against someone who just *brutally* murdered 3 Jedi who were there to arrest him for his crimes - crimes that ANAKIN TOLD THEM about. I mean Palpatine is using force lightning against Windu, who is defending himself from it (and causing Palps some agony, no doubt) right up until the point chucklewit cuts his hands off.
Lol, uhm, no. I've watched Star Wars more times than most people, and have delved deeper into the Star Wars franchise than most people.
Firstly, what Anakin told him is he suspects Palpatine is the Sith Lord. As far as Anakin thought, that just means they'd arrest him
The scene goes thusly:
1. Windu brings along with him 3 other Jedi masters: Saese Tiin, Kit Fisto and Agen Kolar.
2. Windu says they're arresting him without any proof and without the support of the senate. Palpatine brings this up and then says he is the senate.
3. All four masters make it clear they're gonna kill him. Palpatine fights back and slays three of them in the blink of an eye.
4. Windu gets the better of Palpatine and by the end the old man is desperately using force lightning to try to stave off his attacked. Windu had him beat.
5. Anakin tells Windu that what he's doing isn't the Jedi way, but Windu assures him that Palpatine is too dangerous to be kept alive, as determined by Windu and not through due process.
No, bro, Windu messed up by going against what the Jedi code would dictate, even though his heart was in the right place. We may know Windu's heart is in the right place, but Anakin doesn't. All he sees is the Jedi being corrupt and about to take away from him the only chance he has to save his wife.
Newsflash, if you murder the space cops, they will defend themselves with lethal force of necessary.
If the space cops broke into my home, threatened to kill me and pulled out their weapons, I'd defend myself too. I'd super defend myself if one of them then says they're gonna kill me instead of making me stand trial.
Episode 3 is a bad, bad movie. In fact, if attack of the clones didn't exist, episode 3 would have the joy of being easily the worst of the starwars live action movies.
Off to a good start.
It opens with a space combat scene that makes literally no sense. If the seperatists can get that much fleet above Coruscant essentially unhindered...the war is over.
The seperatists have the worst ship to ship combat weapons imaginable. If you can launch a cloud of crummy robots onto a fighter, instead of having they cut wires or whatever, consider making them just explode instead.
General grievous and count duuku both have the distinction of being *utterly useless* and also having just awful names.
Palpatine's plan for getting captured is largely incomprehensible. What exactly is his play here?
etc etc etc
1. Gee, you mean the same way the rebels were able to get into fighting distance of the death star? You'd think the base would be more protected! Or how the resistance can get into Starkiller Base's atmosphere? Absurd! How the Separatists got there is not a topic worth discussing, but you can see how that happens in the nifty 2003 clone wars cartoon. The movie itself makes it clear that the Separatists are desperate since the war had been going on for 3-4 years. From that context alone, it's clear this is a dangerous move for them.
2. Dude, it's a creative sci-fi weapon. It just is. Jedi could be using blasters and ***** instead of lightsabers. Palpatine could create a massive fleet instead of a moon-sized deathlaser that's just a huge target. It is what it is.
3. Palpatine orchestrated his capture because he knew Anakin and Obi-Wan would rescue him. Worst case scenario: Anakin and Obi-Wan die. If Anakin died, then he simply wasn't a worthy apprentice. Best case scenario: Anakin and Obi-Wan rescue him, in which case Anakin has been brought closer to him. He had Anakin execute Dooku when Dooku couldn't defend himself to pull him closer to the dark side, and wanted Anakin to abandon Obi-Wan on the ship. Only one of those things happened, but it was enough. You need to remember that Anakin is Palpatine's goal, along with becoming emperor.
Worse is Anakin's motivations are incomprehensible and weird. In the space of a few minutes he goes from 'the dark side is evil and I must get help against this clear sith lord' to 'this guy is BLATANTLY a sith and just murdered three jedi I MUST HELP HIM BECAUSE RAISINS"
Maybe they're incomprehensible to you because you've let the typical internet groupthink cloud your judgment.
It's hammered home in THREE movies that Anakin is driven by fear. He was AFRAID Windu would take away the only thing that could save his wife in killing Palpatine. He was AFRAID that if he didn't do what Palpatine ordered, then the secrets he needed to save his wife would never be made his. His motivation makes perfect sense when you pay attention and see the type of person Anakin is. He was afraid to leave his mother in episode 1, and then Episode 2 comes around and his fear becomes reality when she dies. That fear became anger, as Yoda often said, and he slaughtered the Tuskans (they deserved it, really). In Episode 3, he's afraid that what happened to his mother would also happen to Padme. He then goes to Yoda and asks his advice, and what does Yoda tell him? Typical Jedi BS about accepting that people die and be happy they're dead. Not acceptable. Meanwhile, Palpatine is telling him it IS possible.
You make it seem like Anakin gleefully did the things he did at the end of Episode 3. He didn't. The man was crying on Mustafar after he did everything Palpatine had ordered (slaughtered a bunch of children and elderly at the temple, and massacred the defenseless separatists).
And then they make Darth Vader, kick ass tough villian extraordinary into just a useless idiot. He never - in the whole trilogy- wins a fight against a Jedi older that 8 who wasn't told to let him win. That whole NOOOOOOOOOOO scene just makes him look like a whiny idiot.
How dare Lucas make the person that becomes Darth Vader actually vulnerable when the whole point of the character arc is he's ruled by his fear! How dare he!
You spent *six damn films* building up to Anakin falling to the dark side and THIS is how you play it?
Padme and Anakin have less the zero chemistry. He's a weird creepy stalker with the charisma of a cane toad("Sand is rough and awful, unlike you!").
Anakin and Padme are both highly sheltered kids, that got thrown into situations way above their emotional maturity. You think Anakin can be charming when he: 1) Spent 9 years as a slave 2) Spent 13 years as a Jedi? See, the Jedi Order makes you believe emotions are wrong, and will lead to the dark side. Not inherently false, but a bit extreme. Anakin would always come off as creepy because he has no experience dealing with his emotions because he's simply taught not to have them. Padme, meanwhile, is a sheltered senator that knows jack ***** about relationships. Maybe she truly loved him, and maybe she saw a sad, broken person that only she could help. Lucas' characters are nuanced enough to draw multiple interpretations from.
Everything about episode 3 is dreadful - except the fight between Anakin and Obiwan - and that is massively over complicated and pretty dumb.
How dare Lucas show two Jedi at the height of their power doing an impossible-by-normal-human standards sword fight to the death!
I find it hilarious how people say Lucas demystified the force (no, he really didn't), and then complain when he introduces a lot more mysticism to it.
Hated this movie so much. This isn't Star Wars; this is some deluded fan creating glorified fanfiction. Get George Lucas involved as creative consultant or writer or something. This needs some direction, because all I saw was just a bad version of Episode 4.
... Well Lucas directed the prequels. What'd you think of those?
The prequels (not counting episode 3, which is still the second best Star Wars movie behind empire) might be bad movies (and really only Episode 2; Episode 1 is merely above average, but that's not good enough for a Star Wars movie), but their narrative is the strongest and most intricate you'll find in a blockbuster movie franchise. That narrative—that plot, with its various themes—were all written and created by George Lucas. While he has failings as a director, he is godly as a writer.
So yes, he directed 3 movies aheadof their time, and I've no doubt he'd make the vapid, manufactured Disney movies actually have substance.
Hated this movie so much. This isn't Star Wars; this is some deluded fan creating glorified fanfiction. Get George Lucas involved as creative consultant or writer or something. This needs some direction, because all I saw was just a bad version of Episode 4.
but they need to find a way to make the Eldrazis more subtle than they were in BFZ.
They'd need to rehire Brady and somehow get Brian Tinsman back. Zendikar and Worldwake were subtle about the Eldrazi influence, and Rise of the Eldrazi was fantastic in presenting the Eldrazi as both otherworldly and powerful. It's a Herculean feat that the creative team was able to mess up something so un-mess-up-able as the Eldrazi plotline.
Anyway, what's worse is they're putting their Avengers on the plane. Superheroes are intrinsically tied to idealism, no matter how dark the superhero is, and if there's one thing horror abhors, it's idealism. Innistrad is cool because it's a bleak world with mankind barely getting by, even on its best day. Throwing superheroes into the mix just ruins it.
As far as I'm aware, the eldrazi were trapped partly because Nahiri gave what amounted to their hands form. Emrakul, if she is on Innistrad, might not even be visible by normal means that that she's been freed.
No, they could take physical form before she did anything.
I am going to go along with the idea that Emrakul went to Innistrad. My primary reason for thinking this is that the name Shadows Over Innistrad sounds strikingly similar to The Shadow over Innsmouth, which is Lovecraft.
There is one potential problem with this idea, and it is going to sound kind of counter-intuitive. There is another high-profile thing that came out that combined Gothic and Lovecraftian horror --
that thing is Bloodborne, which came out in March of 2015.
And it's the timing that's problematic. Wizards plans out their sets and their story arcs years in advance. While it's possible that this story for Shadows Over Innistrad is coincidental, it seems a bit too improbable. Of course, I have absolutely no problem with Wizards borrowing from other sources -- I personally think it's a great thing -- the timing is too weird for that to be the case.
Man, Bloodborne just shows how phoned in BFZ and OGW actually are. You can have action while staying true to Lovecraftian horror; the creative team just took the easy way out.
With how the split the broods and gave each a unique attribute, it seems unlikely that it's Emrakul. They turned the mindfreakiness into Kozilek's thing, and we all know what's gonna happen to him at the end of the story.
Considering how bad Cohort and Support are, I imagine the returning mechanics will be: Banding, Legendary Plainswalk, Phasing, Splice onto Arcane and Rampage.
Actually I'd love to see Ashiok here. Perfect fit thematically and mechanically. In addition Ashiok was originally designed as "Dark Jace" so seeing them interact could be pretty cool.
I'm terrified whenever Jace meets a character I like. Terrified he'll make them look like chumps.
1) This would be more of a possible design mistake than a format weakness. In the old three set block structure, mechanics would get stretched thin by the third set, leading to sets like Rise of the Eldrazi and Avacyn Restored. The two block format allows blocks to be more compact and takes up less design space.
2) Heavens forbid that the game should have some central characters. So four Planeswalkers have formed a group that will serve as our focal heroes for the foreseeable future; what keeps them from visiting exotic new worlds? Then consider that there are many Planeswalkers who aren't part of Gatewatch.
1. No, that's not the problem at all. The issue with the 3-set model was wizards felt the need to create new mechanics that may or may not be good just for the sake of difference. There was never issue of mechanics being stretched thin.
Since the beginning of the block structure (Mirage block, way back in 1996), the third set has always been a problem child. It needs to have enough cohesion to feel as if it belongs to the block, but it has to have enough differences that it manages to spark the interest of the players, who have already been playing the environment for seven or more months.
Mind you, I'm not saying going to two sets is bad, or that three sets is better. I'm okay with whatever as long as the gameplay's decent.
2. Change isn't bad, let's be clear. Executing change poorly, however, is. BFZ, OGW and ORI have not endeared with their overall weak stories and myopic focus on these 4-5 characters. When you ignore a world as vast as the one wizards created over the past 20+ years in favor of new characters, you're bound to get detractors, especially when your stories aren't up to snuff. There's also the fact that at least 2 (Niss and Gideon) of the new 5 replaced 2 (Garruk and Ajani) of the old 5 that people loved. If you're gonna take things away, you need to give things of equivalent value.
Don't forget colorless mana. In Cohort's case, they wanted to give Allies something to do beyond "play Allies and swing". Cohort gives them more utility.
The colorless focus isn't "phoned in filler". Why would I mention it with the likes of Support and Cohort?
Cohort is the disgusting offspring of inspired and outlast, two mechanics that were ill-received at best. Cohort goes against what you want to be doing with allies, which is keep swinging, not fielding creatures just to tap and not attack with them. Even if it winds up leading to great gameplay, on paper it just seems "eh, at best." While I'm not sour on Cohort and Support, I try to see things from other's perspectives, and they have valid points that you shouldn't just neglect or downplay.
The first block after the new block structure has been shown and it already shows its weaknesses.
1) There is not enough room for mechanics to go deep.
No, I think the problem is they feel that every set needs X number of new mechanics. From this thread, it seems most people would've been fine with the mechanics from the last set going forward (landfall, awaken and rally). Surge is the only new thing here worth a damn and can lead to more interesting gameplay. Cohort and Support feel like phoned in filler. It's not a matter of them not having time to go deep; it's them not giving themselves a chance to go deep.
Hard to describe, but I often find myself on the Utilitarian side. Not always, so I can't call my view of things as such. I think I'm at an age where I'm still figuring things out.
Let's see if they can deliver with SoI before holding a eulogy. BFZ was bad and OGW is just alright, but bad sets happen from time to time. I absolutely hated the Scars of Mirrodin block - next one was Innistrad.
I think the set's okay, and that a lot of the Magic: The Theorying going on in this thread is a tad unfair. See, design and development are really good at their jobs. The Creative stuff, however... leaves much to be desired. Don't expect it to get better since the company doesn't put even an iota of the same effort into that side of things.
I know wizards is trying its best to tell stories as toothless, derivative, repetitive and escapist as Marvel, but don't you think dividing this article into "Phases" is a bit too on the nose?
Heeeeeeelarious. Maybe try to construct an argument rather than appeal to popularity. Because that's a non-argument. A nongument, if you will.
Also:
Lol, uhm, no. I've watched Star Wars more times than most people, and have delved deeper into the Star Wars franchise than most people.
Firstly, what Anakin told him is he suspects Palpatine is the Sith Lord. As far as Anakin thought, that just means they'd arrest him
The scene goes thusly:
1. Windu brings along with him 3 other Jedi masters: Saese Tiin, Kit Fisto and Agen Kolar.
2. Windu says they're arresting him without any proof and without the support of the senate. Palpatine brings this up and then says he is the senate.
3. All four masters make it clear they're gonna kill him. Palpatine fights back and slays three of them in the blink of an eye.
4. Windu gets the better of Palpatine and by the end the old man is desperately using force lightning to try to stave off his attacked. Windu had him beat.
5. Anakin tells Windu that what he's doing isn't the Jedi way, but Windu assures him that Palpatine is too dangerous to be kept alive, as determined by Windu and not through due process.
No, bro, Windu messed up by going against what the Jedi code would dictate, even though his heart was in the right place. We may know Windu's heart is in the right place, but Anakin doesn't. All he sees is the Jedi being corrupt and about to take away from him the only chance he has to save his wife.
If the space cops broke into my home, threatened to kill me and pulled out their weapons, I'd defend myself too. I'd super defend myself if one of them then says they're gonna kill me instead of making me stand trial.
Off to a good start.
1. Gee, you mean the same way the rebels were able to get into fighting distance of the death star? You'd think the base would be more protected! Or how the resistance can get into Starkiller Base's atmosphere? Absurd! How the Separatists got there is not a topic worth discussing, but you can see how that happens in the nifty 2003 clone wars cartoon. The movie itself makes it clear that the Separatists are desperate since the war had been going on for 3-4 years. From that context alone, it's clear this is a dangerous move for them.
2. Dude, it's a creative sci-fi weapon. It just is. Jedi could be using blasters and ***** instead of lightsabers. Palpatine could create a massive fleet instead of a moon-sized deathlaser that's just a huge target. It is what it is.
3. Palpatine orchestrated his capture because he knew Anakin and Obi-Wan would rescue him. Worst case scenario: Anakin and Obi-Wan die. If Anakin died, then he simply wasn't a worthy apprentice. Best case scenario: Anakin and Obi-Wan rescue him, in which case Anakin has been brought closer to him. He had Anakin execute Dooku when Dooku couldn't defend himself to pull him closer to the dark side, and wanted Anakin to abandon Obi-Wan on the ship. Only one of those things happened, but it was enough. You need to remember that Anakin is Palpatine's goal, along with becoming emperor.
Maybe they're incomprehensible to you because you've let the typical internet groupthink cloud your judgment.
It's hammered home in THREE movies that Anakin is driven by fear. He was AFRAID Windu would take away the only thing that could save his wife in killing Palpatine. He was AFRAID that if he didn't do what Palpatine ordered, then the secrets he needed to save his wife would never be made his. His motivation makes perfect sense when you pay attention and see the type of person Anakin is. He was afraid to leave his mother in episode 1, and then Episode 2 comes around and his fear becomes reality when she dies. That fear became anger, as Yoda often said, and he slaughtered the Tuskans (they deserved it, really). In Episode 3, he's afraid that what happened to his mother would also happen to Padme. He then goes to Yoda and asks his advice, and what does Yoda tell him? Typical Jedi BS about accepting that people die and be happy they're dead. Not acceptable. Meanwhile, Palpatine is telling him it IS possible.
You make it seem like Anakin gleefully did the things he did at the end of Episode 3. He didn't. The man was crying on Mustafar after he did everything Palpatine had ordered (slaughtered a bunch of children and elderly at the temple, and massacred the defenseless separatists).
How dare Lucas make the person that becomes Darth Vader actually vulnerable when the whole point of the character arc is he's ruled by his fear! How dare he!
Anakin and Padme are both highly sheltered kids, that got thrown into situations way above their emotional maturity. You think Anakin can be charming when he: 1) Spent 9 years as a slave 2) Spent 13 years as a Jedi? See, the Jedi Order makes you believe emotions are wrong, and will lead to the dark side. Not inherently false, but a bit extreme. Anakin would always come off as creepy because he has no experience dealing with his emotions because he's simply taught not to have them. Padme, meanwhile, is a sheltered senator that knows jack ***** about relationships. Maybe she truly loved him, and maybe she saw a sad, broken person that only she could help. Lucas' characters are nuanced enough to draw multiple interpretations from.
How dare Lucas show two Jedi at the height of their power doing an impossible-by-normal-human standards sword fight to the death!
I find it hilarious how people say Lucas demystified the force (no, he really didn't), and then complain when he introduces a lot more mysticism to it.
Before you reply, I wrote a piece on this.
The prequels (not counting episode 3, which is still the second best Star Wars movie behind empire) might be bad movies (and really only Episode 2; Episode 1 is merely above average, but that's not good enough for a Star Wars movie), but their narrative is the strongest and most intricate you'll find in a blockbuster movie franchise. That narrative—that plot, with its various themes—were all written and created by George Lucas. While he has failings as a director, he is godly as a writer.
So yes, he directed 3 movies ahead of their time, and I've no doubt he'd make the vapid, manufactured Disney movies actually have substance.
"Neither", here, is akin to "maybe".
They'd need to rehire Brady and somehow get Brian Tinsman back. Zendikar and Worldwake were subtle about the Eldrazi influence, and Rise of the Eldrazi was fantastic in presenting the Eldrazi as both otherworldly and powerful. It's a Herculean feat that the creative team was able to mess up something so un-mess-up-able as the Eldrazi plotline.
Anyway, what's worse is they're putting their Avengers on the plane. Superheroes are intrinsically tied to idealism, no matter how dark the superhero is, and if there's one thing horror abhors, it's idealism. Innistrad is cool because it's a bleak world with mankind barely getting by, even on its best day. Throwing superheroes into the mix just ruins it.
No, they could take physical form before she did anything.
Man, Bloodborne just shows how phoned in BFZ and OGW actually are. You can have action while staying true to Lovecraftian horror; the creative team just took the easy way out.
With how the split the broods and gave each a unique attribute, it seems unlikely that it's Emrakul. They turned the mindfreakiness into Kozilek's thing, and we all know what's gonna happen to him at the end of the story.
I hear it's pretty easy to understand, actually. You just have to complete a four-year course and a thesis on it.
Sadly, so few colleges offer it.
Nice! Now I can finally learn how Banding works!
10/10 set
Tamiyo is a strong possibility. Tibalt to round it out.
I'm terrified whenever Jace meets a character I like. Terrified he'll make them look like chumps.
1. No, that's not the problem at all. The issue with the 3-set model was wizards felt the need to create new mechanics that may or may not be good just for the sake of difference. There was never issue of mechanics being stretched thin.
Mind you, I'm not saying going to two sets is bad, or that three sets is better. I'm okay with whatever as long as the gameplay's decent.
2. Change isn't bad, let's be clear. Executing change poorly, however, is. BFZ, OGW and ORI have not endeared with their overall weak stories and myopic focus on these 4-5 characters. When you ignore a world as vast as the one wizards created over the past 20+ years in favor of new characters, you're bound to get detractors, especially when your stories aren't up to snuff. There's also the fact that at least 2 (Niss and Gideon) of the new 5 replaced 2 (Garruk and Ajani) of the old 5 that people loved. If you're gonna take things away, you need to give things of equivalent value.
The colorless focus isn't "phoned in filler". Why would I mention it with the likes of Support and Cohort?
Cohort is the disgusting offspring of inspired and outlast, two mechanics that were ill-received at best. Cohort goes against what you want to be doing with allies, which is keep swinging, not fielding creatures just to tap and not attack with them. Even if it winds up leading to great gameplay, on paper it just seems "eh, at best." While I'm not sour on Cohort and Support, I try to see things from other's perspectives, and they have valid points that you shouldn't just neglect or downplay.
No, I think the problem is they feel that every set needs X number of new mechanics. From this thread, it seems most people would've been fine with the mechanics from the last set going forward (landfall, awaken and rally). Surge is the only new thing here worth a damn and can lead to more interesting gameplay. Cohort and Support feel like phoned in filler. It's not a matter of them not having time to go deep; it's them not giving themselves a chance to go deep.
I think the set's okay, and that a lot of the Magic: The Theorying going on in this thread is a tad unfair. See, design and development are really good at their jobs. The Creative stuff, however... leaves much to be desired. Don't expect it to get better since the company doesn't put even an iota of the same effort into that side of things.