It was a great film. Spent two days thinking about it and the movie still holds up, so that means it's gotta be good. I thought Deadpool would be annoying and his jokes would get lame after 10 minutes, but I was surprised that neither assumption proved correct.
Well you can check out MaRo's tumblr if you wanna see him talking about how leaks are bad, but being the class act he is, he hasn't tried to levy blame on us.
To add to what has been said, "cannot be blocked" doesn't capture the flavor. A juggernaut mows down what's in front of it, but that doesn't mean things won't try to stop it.
"You mean I'm sending this giant thing at you and you aren't even gonna try to stop it?"
Except that mtg style mind control doesn't work like DBZ's does, or at least Chaozu. Also, why would you assume a supporting character is equivalent to a main character or arch villains powers? That argument is narrative bonkers.
1. Typically in versus debates, one assumes that abilities are basically the same, otherwise you get into pointless semantics like "does The Force affect chakra?" Or "Who knows if people in dragonball have the same biology as people in Magic, so maybe Jace/Bolas wouldn't even know how to affect their minds, or maybe their magic wouldn't work at all!" No, that's boring and undermines the whole scenario. Dragonball uses Ki, Magic uses mana, but for the purposes of a versus debate, they're both just "energy". Similarly, mind control stemming from an application of Ki has to be assumed to work the same as mind control stemming from the usage of mana. Nappa, being the juggernaut he was, was able to block Chaozu's mental manipulation just by using his ki.
2. A character's narrative importance does not at all factor into these things. If that was the case, then Spiderman would be more powerful than The One Above All, and that clearly isn't the case. Chaozu may have been a third string character, but the fact is he had mind powers that far exceeded anything we've seen most Magic characters produce.
You've also ignored that not everything in mtg goes off of pure strength. You know whats hard to punch through? Intangibility. Who cares about raw strength when you can just negate what Goku is doing.
Cool, you're intangible. What does that mean when Goku can literally punch through a planet 10x as dense as Earth when he's in Super Saiyan 3? What does intangibility do for you when Vegeta in the Saiyan Arc is powerful enough to destroy Earth with a single attack, and that's before he transforms into the oozaru, which makes him 10x stronger? Here's what good it is:
>Goku fires a kamehameha
>you turn intangible
>your planet gets destroyed
>Goku uses instant transmission and goes to some place else
>you're left floating in space because while his attack didn't damage you, it destroyed everything around you
That's a win for Goku.
As I said before, DBZ is just on a completely different power tier.
ADDENUDM: I would be remiss not to mention that dragonball characters were moving faster than regular humans could see by the end of the very first arc (And I mean Dragonball, not Dragonball Z, so back when Goku was still a kid). In the first arc of Z, the Saiyan arc, characters were moving so fast you couldn't see them except by tracking their ki.
What does all this mean? It means that before you even think to become intangible you'd be dead.
strengthened by WOTC removing the aura of mysteriousness they had in the first Zendikar.
Without that air of mysteriousness, they're just a bunch of appendagey, samey tentacle monsters.
Also, the person was talking specifically about the cards. All the eldrazi look essentially the same, so the art muddles together instead of being distinctive. That, in turn, makes it hard to differentiate them on cards, so you end up having to read them each and every time, lest you confuse one Eldrazi with another.
Oh wow, that happened. I honestly wouldn't put it past them to make Avacyn be Nahiri, but this is coming from someone very jaded and intensely cynical (and not without due cause).
1. Lol what? Do you not see the road your logic leads down? "Don't judge the movie! Future ones will clear things up!" Okay, I guess Fant4stic is above judging because Fox was gonna do a sequel. You know, I don't think we can say John Carter is a bad movie. A possible sequel in the future could totally make it better!!!!111!!eleven!!
2. No, that logic doesn't hold up. The point of the comparison is we can assume anything, but unless presented to us, those assumptions are pointless. Batman's feats are hilariously superhuman, but it's beaten into our heads that he's just a human. He could be a badass tentacle monster that uses invisible tentacle monster powers. I mean, nothing says he can't be. The movie NEVER told us Rey was some uber forcer. That's fan theory, that's speculation. I don't care for your hypotheses that may or may not be right. I care about what the movie showed, or rather, what it didn't show.
3. No. No. It's said Kylo Ren was trained by Luke. Then he was trained by Snoke. Here's a not-secret that you should know. In Episode 3, Anakin wasn't fully trained, but he's incredible, isn't he? Well, the thing is, he wasn't fully trained in the ways of the Sith, but he was a fully-trained and competent Jedi. With the stuff Kylo Ren did in the movie, and what we're told there, Kylo's at least competent. Whatever training left for him is dark side-specific stuff.
Disregarding all of that, however, he's trained. That's a fact. Rey isn't. That's a fact.
Finally, I said force-sensitives that aren't trained still have heightened intuition. That's Leia's. Leia is as strong with the force as Luke, but you don't see her using badass force powers even when in extreme duress. Because these are things you have to be taught. These are things you have to hone. These aren't things you can just do.
4. It's established in A New Hope by Biggs Darklighter that Luke is the best pilot in the outer rim. We also see that when he's in the battle with the death star. Force-users make for far better pilots than your average Joe because of that aforementioned intuition and reflexes. Luke had both, but because he never received formal Jedi training he couldn't do any cool force moves. It was only after getting instructed did he finally start picking up these powers, and did so faster than anyone.
How is this at all a contradiction. In 4 years Luke became a master. Most Jedi train most of their lives to get to that level. Let's not forget that Obi-Wan in Episode 1 was still a Padawan.
5. Kylo was trying to kill Rey. He offered the invitation to join him when he wasn't able to put her down. After she refused, he still was unable to put her down and was at her mercy at the end. No, don't give me that "he wasn't trying" crud. With Vader it's established that the whole point of the fight was to get Luke to the dark side, but this movie just has Kylo Ren randomly offer her the chance to join him because that's what Episode 5 did. That's all this movie is.
And I have no idea what you're talking about. Yoda and Obi-Wan thought Luke was ready to kill Vader and Palpatine, so I'll take their word for it. We then see that Luke was able to stalemate Vader, whereas in Episode 5 he never stood a chance. That's growth and progression. Rey's triumph over Kylo Ren comes out of nowhere, but Luke's "triumph" over Vader had 3 whole movies building up to it.
6. Wut. How can you not see that what you "explained" is exactly what I said? Kid Anakin is unbelievable even though it makes sense in the context of the movie. Rey is cut from the same cloth, especially since the movie establishes she's never flown a ship before. At least Kid Anakin was a podracer, and according to Qui-Gon that took more skill than flying spaceships. See, that's the difference between George Lucas' storywriting and what these guys did: everything that happens at the movie's climax is foreshadowed at some earlier point.
You can't use Kid Anakin's perfection to justify Rey's perfection. George Lucas wanted to show that the kid was force Jesus, but this movie wants us to see Rey as an underdog. You can't be perfect and be an underdog. That's not a character, that's John Cena.
So why is it unbelievable that Rey could beat Kylo when he spends the entire fight shot through the chest and also he's not trying to kill her because he wants an apprentice?
The problem is he's a trained force-user. If the writers wanted his injury to be playing such a big role in the fight, have him nearly pass out a few times, or maybe fall to a knee and shake it off. If not, have him get into a real fight earlier in the movie, so we can see that his fighting abilities have been hampered by the end. It's just bad writing that a trained force-user loses to someone he's both bigger than, more powerful than and has more experience than.
If you're replying to me, hit the reply button, otherwise I won't see it. This can't be that hard to get.
I won't quote each bit of your post since that'll make this overly lengthy.
1. All of your arguments boil down to "wait for them to explain it," but that's not how movies work. I shouldn't have to wait 2 years and pay $20 more to get BASIC answers to things.
2. I can believe Batman is a Lovecraftian tentacle monster masquerading as a man and you literally cannot prove me wrong. Doesn't mean it's a logical at all belief to hold. Rey is presented as not knowing how to Force, so why should I assume she's some super badass force-user that just forgot?
3. There have been force-sensitives in the EU that have never been trained a day in their life, yes that is true. Most of them go their entire lives without ever using the force, instead getting by on heightened intuition and reflexes (take, for example, Roan Shryne's mother or Granta Omega). Then there's some force-sensitives who can use force pushes and pulls by tapping into raw emotion (take, for example, a young Galen Marek or Savage Opress). Do you know what all these people have in common though? They're no match for actually trained force-users. Kylo Ren is Luke's best student, AND a Skywalker, and he lost to a novice.
4. You're incorrect. Luke left Tatooine at 19 years old. In Return of the Jedi he was 23. He took 4 years to move from not even knowing what the Force was to Master-level skill. Remember that the typical Jedi has to train all their life for that. There is no contradiction.
5. Rey beating Kylo is nothing at all like Luke beating Vader. We know Vader had no intention of killing Luke, we know Luke had to use his anger to triumph over Vader, and most of all, we know Luke had 4 years of training under his belt by the time he fought Vader on the second Death Star. There was ready. Yoda said Luke was ready. Obi-Wan said Luke was ready. Not even comparable to Rey.
6. You clearly misread what I said. Using child Anakin's perfection as a defense for Rey is counterproductive when arguing for a movie's quality. Kid Anakin's perfection was a point of contention for many, EVEN THOUGH IT MADE SENSE BECAUSE HE'S LITERALLY FORCE JESUS.
7. Rey isn't at all Anakin done right. Anakin wasn't done wrong. George Lucas told the story of a kid that was never in control of his destiny—a kid that wanted to help people but got manipulated by others his whole life. Rey, in comparison, is just a perfect, devoid-of-flaws or failures "badass".
Firstly, I’m not making an appeal to popularity. I’m pointing out that you’re making an argumentum ad hipsterum – that your argument is correct because most people don’t agree with you, and that I clearly only hold my views because other people do. Newsflash: I’ve held most of these views from the first time I saw it in the cinema.
Lol what?
To avoid getting into pointless semantics as it concerns ancient greek debate terms, I'll just get to the point.
Me: "You're making internet groupthink cloud your judgment. Here's why."
You: "EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME DOE!"
See the issue?
I don't care about this though since it doesn't actually have anything to do with the point being made. If you feel like I'm being hipster trash, then so be it. Let's move on to the real discussion, shall we?
I just don’t understand why you think that is what happened (as it blatantly isn’t). Wait, that's not true - your first point is correct, or at least those irrelevant apparently Jedi Masters probably have names, and those are probably the names they have.
What I described is exactly what happened. I've watched Revenge of the Sith four times since The Force Awakens premiered.
There is no evidence to support the claim they are doing this with the intention of just murdering palpatine. Or that they don't have evidence.
I don’t mean it’s an odd interpretation: I mean there it is significantly unsupported by the actual movie.
Uhm, what?
1. "He is too dangerous to be kept alive." Windu has it in his head that they're gonna murder the old man.
2. The Jedi activate their lightsabers BEFORE he even does anything.
3. What possible evidence would they have? Palpatine has never shown himself to be able to do anything with the force, nobody knows he has a lightsaber and the Jedi can't even SENSE him. There is no proof he is a Sith Lord at all in the movies. It's explained time and time again that a shroud has been placed on the force by the sith and that the Jedi, as a result, have lost much of their connection to the force. The only thing Windu's going on is Anakin guessing that Palpatine is Darth Sidious, and that may be motivated by the fact that Palpatine has been in office WAY longer than he should've been.
2) Mace says “In the name of the galactic senate of the republic,you're under arrest, Chancellor” and draw their weapons. While moderately hostile, it’s not unreasonable when approaching a suspect believed to be armed and dangerous. (See: Ever cop show ever)
3) "Are you threatening me Master Jedi" says palps. "The senate will decide your fate" says Mace Windu, quite clearly and obviously intending to arrest him and have him tried by the Senate.
3) Palpatine says “I am the senate” in an extremely hostile voice
4) Mace says “Not yet.”
That’s the entire conversation before palpatine declares it treason (which it patently isn't) and attacks. Drawing *any* conclusion other than ‘we’re here to arrest some super dangerous dude’ is irrational.
Oh good, you have actually watched the movie!
To your point, no, and see why above. Let me add that in said scene Windu says Palpatine controls the courts and the senate. He knew going in that having him stand trial was not gonna achieve what they wanted.
Further, I've been saying since the start that this is how Anakin perceives what is happening. The thing you quoted from my blog, it's about how Anakin views the Jedi.
1. Windu and the three members of the Jedi council hastily go about getting to Palpatine.
2. Windu isn't taking Anakin along for the ride. Shady.
3. Anakin arrives to see Windu have Sidious pinned.
It should be stressed that I'm not saying Sidious ain't an evil bastard, because he is (and that's why I love him), and the Jedi are totally right for trying to murder him, BUT that goes against the Jedi Code and apparently judicial law since Windu's electing to say "Screw the senate" with the whole "He's too dangerous to be kept alive" thing.
Then, after beating him, Mace swiftly murders him. Oh wait, no...he tries to arrest him some more. Then Sid claims to Anakin, who has just entered the room (in time for that last line of mace's), that the Jedi are taking over. Mace - more than reasonably - responds "The oppression of the sith is over, and you have lost"
No, he doesn't try to arrest him. Again, what I said above. He's gonna kill him.
Then Darth Sid starts throwing force lightning. As far we can tell from the primary sources (IE the movies) force lightning is SUPER dark side. And everyone knows it. And the emperor isn't "Using for lighting to fend off Windu's attacks" - he's trying to kill him! Granted, he is *awful* at it and should have stopped shooting the lightning bolts that were reflected back into his face before he did, but...come one, be serious.
No, Windu has him pinned and he has no other course of action available to him. And again, that's how Anakin would perceive it as well (but this time his perception is reality).
Also, yes, Force Lightning is a sith-only ability. Palpatine being a sith isn't a question to Anakin. Palpatine has to live and teach him how to do the thing Darth Plagueis did, and that's why he has to be taken alive. Also, the jedi way is in agreement with him that a tired old man that can no longer defend himself should be taken alive. Windu clearly wants to kill him. That is both in opposition to Anakin's goal of saving Padme and the jedi code that he believes in.
Anakin does, it's true, tell Mace it's not the Jedi way, but I would describe that as errant bull***** that Anakin knows is errant bull*****.
No, Anakin clearly believes in it. Every time he does something not Jedily, he admonishes himself for it. The kid is filled with self-loathing, because that's what the Jedi taught him to do. Even though his slaughter of the Tuskans was justified, he was still torn up over having done it in Episode 2. When he has Dooku pinned in Episode 3, he wanted to kill him, but he resisted until Palpatine prodded him to.
Remember, they *do* have strong evidence that someone close to Palps is a sith lord, who has been amassing power in an effort take over the galaxy. Said sith has orchestrated that has cost countless millions of lives (and the lives of more than a few Jedi). They’ve got strong evidence this person is *extremely* force-powerful. And they’ve got evidence from an extremely trustworthy witness – a member of the god-damn council – that the sith ******** is so overconfident he damn nearly confessed to being the sith lord! Plus the whole he just murdered three Jedi, and uses force lightning, and is clearly a Sith Lord.
This isn’t necessarily enough evidence to *convict* but it is more than enough evidence to arrest someone.
No. The only "evidence" they have comes from Dooku, who is the leader of the Separatists that they've been in a literal war with for 4 years. Next, they have the testimony of a Jedi. Do you see the problem there?
What was Palpatine's most significant talking point when he addressed the senate? That the Jedi were trying to overthrow the senate. We know this is something he's been setting up for literally decades (see: clones on Kamino and the whole Syfo Dias subplot from Episode 2). If they took him into custody, all he has to do is say "The Jedi barged into my office and arrested me! They have no evidence, and they're trying to take over! Order 66!"
Now you may be wondering if that's the case why he didn't just let himself be captured by Windu and the other 3 and the answer is clear there too: he needs Anakin to become his apprentice. If he went with the get captured option, Anakin would probably be killed with the rest of the Jedi.
Yes, at the end of the fight palps pretends to be helpless.
He is, however, clearly not. (witness: he still fires a *****load of force lightning at mace windu as soon as the coast is clear).
Yes, he throws force lightning at Windu while he's distracted by getting his arm cut off and just lost his only defense against force lightning. If Anakin wasn't in the room, he'd be dead.
At this point, Mace realises that arrest just isn’t a valid option. As Mace states, the emperor is – literally – too dangerous to be allowed to live. You couldn’t imprison him, or put him on trial – he’s probably powerful enough to mind control his way out of either, with anyone less than him or Yoda pretty much. Also, It’s pretty damn obvious that he is Darth Sid, and that he’s orchestrated a straight-up coup against the republic and murdered millions or billions.
The "mind trick" only works on the weak-minded, and if Palpatine was to attempt that with actual Jedi presiding over the case, he'd be found out immediately. The real issue is Palpatine has control over the senate and the judicial system. Windu knows this, and knew this going in.
What do you think Windu should do?
Windu was in the right. He did everything right. There is no taking a sith lord alive. BUT as far as Anakin's concerned, he did everything wrong, and that's the important part.
On Rey: Please. She’s no more over-capable thank luke. Or Anakin.
Also, Anakin is supposed to be perfect. He's Force Jesus. At least in Episode 1. By Episodes 2 and 3 he has so many flaws you begin to wonder how he's supposed to be the hero (he isn't; he's the protagonist of "Star Wars Episode _", while Luke is the hero of "Star Wars Episode _").
One of the worst things about Rey is there's nothing left for her to learn. There is no growth left, and when they try to say there is, it will be an outright lie. What the hell can Luke teach her when she's done everything he did in the first 3 movies, but better? She beat his best damn student despite being smaller than him and having had no prior lightsaber knowledge or force training.
And the idea he ‘only succeeds twice in the OT’ – get real. He flies an x-wing with literally zero training and is either the best or second best pilot. He mans the Falcon’s gunnery station despite never having *seen* it and is as good as han who owns the damn ship. He’s an incredible shot with a blaster despite having never been in a fight in his life.
He did well with the gun because all he's doing is pointing and shooting. Heightened reflexes have consistently been something attributed to people particularly gifted with the Force. Rey is unlike Luke in this regard because as far as the movie's concerned she's never flown anything and has TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE of the ship to a greater degree than the person that owned it for years. Luke can point and click a ship's guns, but I doubt he'd be able to fix them if they broke down. Rey could do that and more.
More or less literally the only thing he isn’t perfect at on the first attempt in ANH is fighting the tiny robo-droids in the training on the falcon.
Then we have empire in which yea, he gets beat – although it’s the middle act of a story and that is, you know, how stories work – and he still takes down more ATATs than the entire rest of the rebel army.
The first chunk of the movie is devoted to Han rescuing him. He spends the middle of the movie failing Yoda's lessons. He spends the last third of the movie getting his ass kicked by daddy.
Then in Jedi, he sets up a super complex plan, beats a rancor while unarmed, beats all of Jabba’s men, landspeeder fights despite never having been on one, and beats Vader in a sabre fight. Among other things.
In RotJ, his plan goes awry and he and everyone else wing it. How is it a victory that he was able to beat up a rancor? He's a fully-trained Jedi and SHOULD be able to do that much. If we're counting useless muggle wins, then Rey beat up those trained First Order soldiers at the start of the movie despite having no training whatsoever, and beats Kylo Ren later despite having absolutely no training.
And during all of this time, the entire duration of his training by Jedi is about 5 minutes in ANH and a couple of days or a week in empire.
Better than no training at all!
Similarly, in Menace, Anakin build C3P0 with no apparent real training (repairing a droid is pretty different to building a brand new one and teaching it six million languages somehow), then wins the big podrace, which no human has ever done before (and I have a recollection that he had either never been in a real one or never finished - I could be wrong). Then he gets in a starfighter - in which he somehow not only takes off, but is the best pilot ever and blows up the droid control ship.
That's because the point of Anakin in ANH is that he's literally force Jesus. Virgin birth, unconditionally good etc. He's infuriating in how perfect he is, and even though that's the point, everyone hated it. Is Rey so awful that you're using ANH Anakin to justify her?
--------------------------------------
Finally, this bit doesn't really matter, but I can't leave it unaddressed:
He murders the hell out of 2 supposed Jedi masters instantly and kit fisto after about a three seconds of combat.
They're masters, but Palpatine is just better. Nobody would take issue with this if it was Yoda that took out three Jedi. Palpatine is dark side Yoda, and even stronger since he beat the actual Yoda. He's also at least the strongest sith in a thousand years.
Rey is a mary sue. She's as flat and phoned in as everything in this movie. The only triumphs Luke has in the original movies are blowing up the death star and saving Vader (and this last one he accomplishes by LOSING and being at the Emperor's mercy). Luke's a loser, an underdog, and that's what makes him so compelling. Rey just has instant mastery over anything she does, and every character in earshot has to acknowledge how special and great she is.
Finn is the closest to being a relatable character, but the writing wouldn't dare address the elephant in the room as it regards to him (i.e. killing hundreds of troopers when just one trooper dying before messed him up).
Kylo is the character that annoyed me the most during the movie, leading up to the movie and right after seeing the movie. It was only after about a week of thinking about the other characters did Rey and Poe surpass him in annoyance.
I know wizards is trying its best to tell stories as toothless, derivative, repetitive and escapist as Marvel, but don't you think dividing this article into "Phases" is a bit too on the nose?
Strongly recommend watching it.
Eh, the most you saw were tits and asses. Not that bad, and not that many.
"You mean I'm sending this giant thing at you and you aren't even gonna try to stop it?"
I like madness. I've liked madness for a long time.
Particular praise goes to, and in no particular order:
If only the BFZ block had writers as good as the original Zendikar block's.
You've waited 3 days, so allow me to help you.
The first line in my sig will explain everything in detail to you, but if you want cliffnotes:
1. Things established earlier don't exist anymore, or don't work how we were told they do for years.
2. They butchered Lovecraftian concepts until only Godzilla Kaiju were left.
3. The story is repetitive and 80% of it is filler.
1. Typically in versus debates, one assumes that abilities are basically the same, otherwise you get into pointless semantics like "does The Force affect chakra?" Or "Who knows if people in dragonball have the same biology as people in Magic, so maybe Jace/Bolas wouldn't even know how to affect their minds, or maybe their magic wouldn't work at all!" No, that's boring and undermines the whole scenario. Dragonball uses Ki, Magic uses mana, but for the purposes of a versus debate, they're both just "energy". Similarly, mind control stemming from an application of Ki has to be assumed to work the same as mind control stemming from the usage of mana. Nappa, being the juggernaut he was, was able to block Chaozu's mental manipulation just by using his ki.
2. A character's narrative importance does not at all factor into these things. If that was the case, then Spiderman would be more powerful than The One Above All, and that clearly isn't the case. Chaozu may have been a third string character, but the fact is he had mind powers that far exceeded anything we've seen most Magic characters produce.
Cool, you're intangible. What does that mean when Goku can literally punch through a planet 10x as dense as Earth when he's in Super Saiyan 3? What does intangibility do for you when Vegeta in the Saiyan Arc is powerful enough to destroy Earth with a single attack, and that's before he transforms into the oozaru, which makes him 10x stronger? Here's what good it is:
>Goku fires a kamehameha
>you turn intangible
>your planet gets destroyed
>Goku uses instant transmission and goes to some place else
>you're left floating in space because while his attack didn't damage you, it destroyed everything around you
That's a win for Goku.
As I said before, DBZ is just on a completely different power tier.
ADDENUDM: I would be remiss not to mention that dragonball characters were moving faster than regular humans could see by the end of the very first arc (And I mean Dragonball, not Dragonball Z, so back when Goku was still a kid). In the first arc of Z, the Saiyan arc, characters were moving so fast you couldn't see them except by tracking their ki.
What does all this mean? It means that before you even think to become intangible you'd be dead.
Without that air of mysteriousness, they're just a bunch of appendagey, samey tentacle monsters.
Also, the person was talking specifically about the cards. All the eldrazi look essentially the same, so the art muddles together instead of being distinctive. That, in turn, makes it hard to differentiate them on cards, so you end up having to read them each and every time, lest you confuse one Eldrazi with another.
Nope. They don't like having +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters in the same block. Currently there's a bunch of +1/+1 counter mechanics in Standard.
Okay.
Ey gaiz, do u think 2-face cards will b in teh set?!
Avcyn Restore dident hav any so i am confuzed
2. No, that logic doesn't hold up. The point of the comparison is we can assume anything, but unless presented to us, those assumptions are pointless. Batman's feats are hilariously superhuman, but it's beaten into our heads that he's just a human. He could be a badass tentacle monster that uses invisible tentacle monster powers. I mean, nothing says he can't be. The movie NEVER told us Rey was some uber forcer. That's fan theory, that's speculation. I don't care for your hypotheses that may or may not be right. I care about what the movie showed, or rather, what it didn't show.
3. No. No. It's said Kylo Ren was trained by Luke. Then he was trained by Snoke. Here's a not-secret that you should know. In Episode 3, Anakin wasn't fully trained, but he's incredible, isn't he? Well, the thing is, he wasn't fully trained in the ways of the Sith, but he was a fully-trained and competent Jedi. With the stuff Kylo Ren did in the movie, and what we're told there, Kylo's at least competent. Whatever training left for him is dark side-specific stuff.
Disregarding all of that, however, he's trained. That's a fact. Rey isn't. That's a fact.
Finally, I said force-sensitives that aren't trained still have heightened intuition. That's Leia's. Leia is as strong with the force as Luke, but you don't see her using badass force powers even when in extreme duress. Because these are things you have to be taught. These are things you have to hone. These aren't things you can just do.
4. It's established in A New Hope by Biggs Darklighter that Luke is the best pilot in the outer rim. We also see that when he's in the battle with the death star. Force-users make for far better pilots than your average Joe because of that aforementioned intuition and reflexes. Luke had both, but because he never received formal Jedi training he couldn't do any cool force moves. It was only after getting instructed did he finally start picking up these powers, and did so faster than anyone.
How is this at all a contradiction. In 4 years Luke became a master. Most Jedi train most of their lives to get to that level. Let's not forget that Obi-Wan in Episode 1 was still a Padawan.
5. Kylo was trying to kill Rey. He offered the invitation to join him when he wasn't able to put her down. After she refused, he still was unable to put her down and was at her mercy at the end. No, don't give me that "he wasn't trying" crud. With Vader it's established that the whole point of the fight was to get Luke to the dark side, but this movie just has Kylo Ren randomly offer her the chance to join him because that's what Episode 5 did. That's all this movie is.
And I have no idea what you're talking about. Yoda and Obi-Wan thought Luke was ready to kill Vader and Palpatine, so I'll take their word for it. We then see that Luke was able to stalemate Vader, whereas in Episode 5 he never stood a chance. That's growth and progression. Rey's triumph over Kylo Ren comes out of nowhere, but Luke's "triumph" over Vader had 3 whole movies building up to it.
6. Wut. How can you not see that what you "explained" is exactly what I said? Kid Anakin is unbelievable even though it makes sense in the context of the movie. Rey is cut from the same cloth, especially since the movie establishes she's never flown a ship before. At least Kid Anakin was a podracer, and according to Qui-Gon that took more skill than flying spaceships. See, that's the difference between George Lucas' storywriting and what these guys did: everything that happens at the movie's climax is foreshadowed at some earlier point.
You can't use Kid Anakin's perfection to justify Rey's perfection. George Lucas wanted to show that the kid was force Jesus, but this movie wants us to see Rey as an underdog. You can't be perfect and be an underdog. That's not a character, that's John Cena.
The problem is he's a trained force-user. If the writers wanted his injury to be playing such a big role in the fight, have him nearly pass out a few times, or maybe fall to a knee and shake it off. If not, have him get into a real fight earlier in the movie, so we can see that his fighting abilities have been hampered by the end. It's just bad writing that a trained force-user loses to someone he's both bigger than, more powerful than and has more experience than.
Much better version of Kylo Ren by a much better writer than JJ. No, it's not Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus or Darth Revan.
I won't quote each bit of your post since that'll make this overly lengthy.
1. All of your arguments boil down to "wait for them to explain it," but that's not how movies work. I shouldn't have to wait 2 years and pay $20 more to get BASIC answers to things.
2. I can believe Batman is a Lovecraftian tentacle monster masquerading as a man and you literally cannot prove me wrong. Doesn't mean it's a logical at all belief to hold. Rey is presented as not knowing how to Force, so why should I assume she's some super badass force-user that just forgot?
3. There have been force-sensitives in the EU that have never been trained a day in their life, yes that is true. Most of them go their entire lives without ever using the force, instead getting by on heightened intuition and reflexes (take, for example, Roan Shryne's mother or Granta Omega). Then there's some force-sensitives who can use force pushes and pulls by tapping into raw emotion (take, for example, a young Galen Marek or Savage Opress). Do you know what all these people have in common though? They're no match for actually trained force-users. Kylo Ren is Luke's best student, AND a Skywalker, and he lost to a novice.
4. You're incorrect. Luke left Tatooine at 19 years old. In Return of the Jedi he was 23. He took 4 years to move from not even knowing what the Force was to Master-level skill. Remember that the typical Jedi has to train all their life for that. There is no contradiction.
5. Rey beating Kylo is nothing at all like Luke beating Vader. We know Vader had no intention of killing Luke, we know Luke had to use his anger to triumph over Vader, and most of all, we know Luke had 4 years of training under his belt by the time he fought Vader on the second Death Star. There was ready. Yoda said Luke was ready. Obi-Wan said Luke was ready. Not even comparable to Rey.
6. You clearly misread what I said. Using child Anakin's perfection as a defense for Rey is counterproductive when arguing for a movie's quality. Kid Anakin's perfection was a point of contention for many, EVEN THOUGH IT MADE SENSE BECAUSE HE'S LITERALLY FORCE JESUS.
7. Rey isn't at all Anakin done right. Anakin wasn't done wrong. George Lucas told the story of a kid that was never in control of his destiny—a kid that wanted to help people but got manipulated by others his whole life. Rey, in comparison, is just a perfect, devoid-of-flaws or failures "badass".
Lol what?
To avoid getting into pointless semantics as it concerns ancient greek debate terms, I'll just get to the point.
Me: "You're making internet groupthink cloud your judgment. Here's why."
You: "EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME DOE!"
See the issue?
I don't care about this though since it doesn't actually have anything to do with the point being made. If you feel like I'm being hipster trash, then so be it. Let's move on to the real discussion, shall we?
Edumacate yourself, dawg.
What I described is exactly what happened. I've watched Revenge of the Sith four times since The Force Awakens premiered.
Uhm, what?
1. "He is too dangerous to be kept alive." Windu has it in his head that they're gonna murder the old man.
2. The Jedi activate their lightsabers BEFORE he even does anything.
3. What possible evidence would they have? Palpatine has never shown himself to be able to do anything with the force, nobody knows he has a lightsaber and the Jedi can't even SENSE him. There is no proof he is a Sith Lord at all in the movies. It's explained time and time again that a shroud has been placed on the force by the sith and that the Jedi, as a result, have lost much of their connection to the force. The only thing Windu's going on is Anakin guessing that Palpatine is Darth Sidious, and that may be motivated by the fact that Palpatine has been in office WAY longer than he should've been.
Oh good, you have actually watched the movie!
To your point, no, and see why above. Let me add that in said scene Windu says Palpatine controls the courts and the senate. He knew going in that having him stand trial was not gonna achieve what they wanted.
Further, I've been saying since the start that this is how Anakin perceives what is happening. The thing you quoted from my blog, it's about how Anakin views the Jedi.
1. Windu and the three members of the Jedi council hastily go about getting to Palpatine.
2. Windu isn't taking Anakin along for the ride. Shady.
3. Anakin arrives to see Windu have Sidious pinned.
It should be stressed that I'm not saying Sidious ain't an evil bastard, because he is (and that's why I love him), and the Jedi are totally right for trying to murder him, BUT that goes against the Jedi Code and apparently judicial law since Windu's electing to say "Screw the senate" with the whole "He's too dangerous to be kept alive" thing.
No, he doesn't try to arrest him. Again, what I said above. He's gonna kill him.
No, Windu has him pinned and he has no other course of action available to him. And again, that's how Anakin would perceive it as well (but this time his perception is reality).
Also, yes, Force Lightning is a sith-only ability. Palpatine being a sith isn't a question to Anakin. Palpatine has to live and teach him how to do the thing Darth Plagueis did, and that's why he has to be taken alive. Also, the jedi way is in agreement with him that a tired old man that can no longer defend himself should be taken alive. Windu clearly wants to kill him. That is both in opposition to Anakin's goal of saving Padme and the jedi code that he believes in.
No, Anakin clearly believes in it. Every time he does something not Jedily, he admonishes himself for it. The kid is filled with self-loathing, because that's what the Jedi taught him to do. Even though his slaughter of the Tuskans was justified, he was still torn up over having done it in Episode 2. When he has Dooku pinned in Episode 3, he wanted to kill him, but he resisted until Palpatine prodded him to.
No. The only "evidence" they have comes from Dooku, who is the leader of the Separatists that they've been in a literal war with for 4 years. Next, they have the testimony of a Jedi. Do you see the problem there?
What was Palpatine's most significant talking point when he addressed the senate? That the Jedi were trying to overthrow the senate. We know this is something he's been setting up for literally decades (see: clones on Kamino and the whole Syfo Dias subplot from Episode 2). If they took him into custody, all he has to do is say "The Jedi barged into my office and arrested me! They have no evidence, and they're trying to take over! Order 66!"
Now you may be wondering if that's the case why he didn't just let himself be captured by Windu and the other 3 and the answer is clear there too: he needs Anakin to become his apprentice. If he went with the get captured option, Anakin would probably be killed with the rest of the Jedi.
Yes, he throws force lightning at Windu while he's distracted by getting his arm cut off and just lost his only defense against force lightning. If Anakin wasn't in the room, he'd be dead.
The "mind trick" only works on the weak-minded, and if Palpatine was to attempt that with actual Jedi presiding over the case, he'd be found out immediately. The real issue is Palpatine has control over the senate and the judicial system. Windu knows this, and knew this going in.
Windu was in the right. He did everything right. There is no taking a sith lord alive. BUT as far as Anakin's concerned, he did everything wrong, and that's the important part.
Here's a handy little image for you.
Also, Anakin is supposed to be perfect. He's Force Jesus. At least in Episode 1. By Episodes 2 and 3 he has so many flaws you begin to wonder how he's supposed to be the hero (he isn't; he's the protagonist of "Star Wars Episode _", while Luke is the hero of "Star Wars Episode _").
One of the worst things about Rey is there's nothing left for her to learn. There is no growth left, and when they try to say there is, it will be an outright lie. What the hell can Luke teach her when she's done everything he did in the first 3 movies, but better? She beat his best damn student despite being smaller than him and having had no prior lightsaber knowledge or force training.
Biggs Darklighter says Luke's one of the best pilots in the outer rim.
He did well with the gun because all he's doing is pointing and shooting. Heightened reflexes have consistently been something attributed to people particularly gifted with the Force. Rey is unlike Luke in this regard because as far as the movie's concerned she's never flown anything and has TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE of the ship to a greater degree than the person that owned it for years. Luke can point and click a ship's guns, but I doubt he'd be able to fix them if they broke down. Rey could do that and more.
This isn't an appeal to authority. Here's a vid explaining the difference between Rey and Luke.
The first chunk of the movie is devoted to Han rescuing him. He spends the middle of the movie failing Yoda's lessons. He spends the last third of the movie getting his ass kicked by daddy.
In RotJ, his plan goes awry and he and everyone else wing it. How is it a victory that he was able to beat up a rancor? He's a fully-trained Jedi and SHOULD be able to do that much. If we're counting useless muggle wins, then Rey beat up those trained First Order soldiers at the start of the movie despite having no training whatsoever, and beats Kylo Ren later despite having absolutely no training.
Better than no training at all!
That's because the point of Anakin in ANH is that he's literally force Jesus. Virgin birth, unconditionally good etc. He's infuriating in how perfect he is, and even though that's the point, everyone hated it. Is Rey so awful that you're using ANH Anakin to justify her?
Finally, this bit doesn't really matter, but I can't leave it unaddressed:
They're masters, but Palpatine is just better. Nobody would take issue with this if it was Yoda that took out three Jedi. Palpatine is dark side Yoda, and even stronger since he beat the actual Yoda. He's also at least the strongest sith in a thousand years.
Finn is the closest to being a relatable character, but the writing wouldn't dare address the elephant in the room as it regards to him (i.e. killing hundreds of troopers when just one trooper dying before messed him up).
Kylo is the character that annoyed me the most during the movie, leading up to the movie and right after seeing the movie. It was only after about a week of thinking about the other characters did Rey and Poe surpass him in annoyance.
I get you, bro.
Here's my unabridged thoughts on the movie from a month ago. I've since found a lot more things that gnaw away at any enjoyment I could get out of it.