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  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Terrific post, Fluffy. Going with the 'Hard 8' on rabble, eh? I tried it, and moved quickly to 6 rabble. Maybe too quickly. I'll look into that thinking. Fair to note: I did not adopt the more traditional build when I tried it. Mine was less abrade/slagstorm and more goblin cratermaker/goblin chainwhirler. So, I like what you're doing here. More tried and true.

    Excellent meta analysis. And, props to you and Russ for breaking Ravenous Trap (maybe others too). Again, on paper, it just does not look good. Seems like Grafdigger's Cage has way more 'reliable' applications. But, it's extremely fragile, and can conflict with a Chalice on 1. Your point about the correct time to execute an answer is inspired. I'll give it a whirl as well....6-CMC Black card in Pyro Prison. Ohhhhh, the humanity.

    Yet, as I think about your 3 target decks: DREDGE // HOLLOW ONE // STORM. As far as storm goes, that's a pretty damned good matchup after sideboarding, right? And, my concern with Dredge and Hollow One is that we can get sneeeeeaked under a bridge pretty easily by Narcomoeba, Stinkweed Imp :: DREDGE// Flameblade Adept :: HOLLOW ONE. And, even an Empty the Warrens from Storm can be devastating with a dead ravenous in hand. Hmmmmm, as I look longingly upon a Grafdigger's Cage.

    That clip of Evaros is hilarious! Kekeke
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Dredge certainly is a bitcher, Dazza. Gotta ask.....where are your Grafdigger's Cage(s)?? Also, you're going with only 1 Anger of the Gods [I run 4]. Ditch the surgicals and go in that direction first. Speaking of Anger, it has now replaced Slagstorm in my main deck which has freed up 2 slots in my sideboard. Why? Our bad matchups are harder hit by Anger, and I've got ways of filtering it away if I'm marching forward with a goblin horde. Read on...

    Wiblo - you've been running Saffron's Goblin Prison, huh? The most compelling addition is Chancellor of the Tangle. Woah - MEGA Acceleration. Obviously, the drawback is later drawn Chancellors - totally dead draw, right. Well, I started to tool with the idea of using cards that are very, very narrow, BUT can be ditched later as a resource. My list of enablers - filter/scry/draw/loot/rummage:
    Alrighty, so these cards are all decent on their own. AND, they can toss away a later drawn Tangle. But, what else can I also include in the main deck Game 1. NOTE: this idea dovetails with what Fluffy brought up in a previous post. I've also espoused this game theorizing in earlier posts: Catering your Main Deck list of cards to increase your chances of success against 'bad matchups' by selecting cards which normally appear in the Sideboard. Thus, the Sideboard or Pre-board deck. Although, the 3 elements of power lock suite now appear regularly in Tiered decklists, that wasn't the case when this thread launched. Time marches on - let's up our game.

    Let's take it 1 step further. Examine the meta. Choose a spell which can have particularly calamitous results for the opponent [i]in game one[/i]. My choice: Witchbane Orb. EEK! Think about how many decks do not have artifact destruction in game 1, AND have very linear kill conditions that require 'targeting an opponent'. Storm, Ad Nauseam, Burn, KCI (EE excluded), Lantern Control, Liliana of the Veil, Conflagrate, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Scapeshift.....tons of applications and when paired with an ensnaring bridge it can equal GG.

    I did also try running a Damping Matrix in the main with less successful results, however the thinking can be sound when you come up against the right opponent like hardened scales affinity, G/W Vizier Combo, KCI, etc. etc. Again, the idea is to run very, very narrow cards which might hit with Crane Kick force or can be filtered away. Here's another one: main deck......Leyline of the Void. I know I don't have to rattle off the number of decks that would be devastated by that drop....friggen' precious.

    Pyro Prison has been on the downswing with its success rate - evidenced by a lack of Top 8 results in premier events. Gotta adapt and overcome. What else can we try? Let's stoke that fire, kinfolk. Look at the mountain man in the mirror, and make that change.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    I'd love to see some of the decklists being proposed. Fluffy mentions the option of going with less than 4 bridge in the main, and relying on phat dragons and sarkhan, fireblood. While Dazza proposes a similarly aggressive line, but uses legion warboss and scab-clan berserker instead. To form an opinion of either, I'd have to see the removal/ritual complements.

    But, (4) ensnaring bridge is a bedrock play for Pyro Prison. I've dabbled with reduced counts over the years. The only way I think it could potentially be successful is with a Goblin Gun build where there are legitimately (20) creatures and eight of them are removal on-a-stick: Goblin Cratermaker / Goblin Chainwhirler. There is a slightly outdated decklist at the top of Page 156. [I took out purphoros/magus - few chandras are back in]

    That build turns our matchups on their heads. Favorable/Unfavorable opponents get inverted. So, maybe there's some middle ground in there -- Maybe you guys are onto something??
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Tournament Highlight - 10K, 200+ People

    Or, should I say lowlight. Round 1 // Game 1 VS. Jund

    I am on the PLAY and mulligan to 6. I don't know what my opponent is playing, and my hand is slooow. There is a blood moon, ensnaring bridge, chandra, 3 mountains. I don't want to risk the mull to 5, and there's always the chance of a drawn ritual. O.K. Keep.

    I am not going to recall all of the plays/draws that occurred, but I don't expect to forget his 4th turn anytime soon. Like, maybe....ever? Frown

    I am chugging along with mountain drops, and not casting any spells. He fetches into a dual land on T1 and T2 - casting a Tarmogoyf: 1/2 P/T. No problem there. I start the 3rd turn with a mountain, and naturally cast blood moon. Got him.

    Just from the way that he was playing his lands, I could tell that he wasn't sandbagging any basic lands in his hand. On his 3rd turn, he attacks for 1 and then plays another useless dual land. Bear in mind that this deck plays something like (1) basic land of each in his (60).

    So, it's the 4th turn, and I'm feeling confident. He has 3 mountains and a 1/2 Goyf. I now have 4 mountains, a blood moon and a decision to make: Chandra or ensnaring bridge? Uhh

    It'll be a while before I can get under a bridge, and there's not really much of an onboard threat to Chandra, so....Chandra gets cast and I tick up to (5) loyalty on an exile.

    On the opponent's 4th turn, he top decks a forest. Plays the forest and a blood braid elf which reveals a thoughtseize. The bridge in my hand gets rubbished. The opponent's Goyf grows to a 3/4 and joins BBE in an attack upon Chandra. She dead. A few turns later, so am I.


    Before the tournament, I go over to the vendors' to buy a 3rd Hazoret the Fervent for my Pyro Prison deck. I shout over the request, some dude comes over with one, and $4.00 later I walk away with my last needed card for the deck that day.

    In round 3, I seat myself across from someone I don't recognize and offer a hello. He says we've already met earlier that day. I tell him he must be confusing me with someone else. He's sure of it, and reminds me that I bought a Hazoret the Fervent from him over at the vendor area.

    I say, "Ooooooh, yeah. I needed that card for an EDH tournament tomorrow." 'Suuuuure'. People around us laugh, and we start the tournament with me partially tipping my hand to my opponent. What are the odds?!?!!?
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    I watched it Dev. You are correct - sometimes you have to kamikaze attack your Eidolon into 'suicide by dragon' so that you don't have to keep dumping your hand down. He did only get zinged for one spell played (blood moon - redundant), but every life point counts - which actually happened there: him getting pinged out by Niv Mizzet.

    I watched Ultrasuperbob play against Stickballruss the other night in a mirror. He's a sound player - no mistakes that I saw. I did feel for on the clock management of his opponent in the video you provided. He ended at 19:00 and his opponent won at 2:00. His library was revealed, and it was very close to a Stock List of Pyro Prison.

    Highlight? He dropped the hammer on a Boooooooooiiiiiil. Opponent had 3 lands. 2 of which were islands. At the start of the opponent's next turn? 1 land, and a heavy fog hung in the air. Nothing like the smell of low, low, low, low tide in the morning. :p
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Titanium Series 10K
    October 20th - Worcester, MA

    $3,000.00 for 1st place, so let's put all this experimenting and game theorizing to the ultimate test. It's showtime. I scrutinized each card selection, drawing inspiration from all of the suggestions posted by mountainfolk and previous archetypes I've rattled through:

    • Stock List - Our Bedrock. Defined by an unchanged formula since Torch of Defiance was created. (21) Land (9) Ritual (12) Lock (4) Chandra (4) Rabble (2) Sweeper (2) Spot (1) Koth = ((*55*)) Cards. Tried and True.
    • Goblin Gun - Goblins Everywhere: (8) Rabblemaster + Chainwhirler/Cratermaker. Defined by a creature dense main deck. All removal is 'on a stick'
    • Trash Dragons - Turbo Fast: Defined by inflated Ritual / Scry / Loot / Draw / Rummage Spells & backed by Avaricious-Sarkhan Combo. Increased number of 4-cmc spells, like multiple Hazoret the Fervent. Limited removal spell count.
    • Porno for Pyros - Combo & Spell Decks Beware the Devils! Defined by (4) Eidolon of the Revel in the main deck [ouch!], creature ramp, and reduced ritual count.
    • Toolbox - Now where's my silver bullet? Defined by reduced win-cons and increased prison pieces. Less spear and more shield in the sideboard.
    Final Deck Result? Team effort. Every deck contributed its unique strengths just like, to use a Star Trek reference, the Borg. "We are the Borg. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile." But, spoiler alert: resistance was futile. I did not turn in a winning record on Saturday. It was a 2-3 drop, but each of my round losses were 1-2 game records, so that counts for something. And, plenty of Tier decks turned in the same record and worse that day, so I'm not discouraged.

    Quite the opposite, I am extremely satisfied with the deck design. I came home after the tourney, reviewed the days events, laid out my alternate card choices, and attempted to improve the deck. No can do. For today's meta, imho nailed it. As you know, I'm not big on long tourney reports, but I'll list off the decks faced & how I sideboarded. Alright, so here's the deck:

    How's it look? It's mostly a return to my Stock List. Same: land count and composition, ritual count and composition, removal count and composition, lock count, and rabblemaster count.

    Notable differences in the Main Deck are a reduction in 4-cmc spells: No Koth - Only 3 Chandra - 1 Hazoret. This allows for a faster board development. I added (2) extra rabbles = warboss, and they all work well together as a team. (4) Devils came in to battle combo/spell/control/tron decks.

    Notable differences in the sideboard is a high concentration of Toolbox cards. Anger of the Gods as a 4-of is prohibitively ill-tempered! Alongside 2 Slagstorm, 2 Abrade, and 4 Bridge, I'm positioning myself at the ready against decks that win by attacking - spirits/humans/hollow one/etc. Whereas some might think it's overkill, you can almost never have too much exiling kill against numerous decks out there. I'm perfectly fine with doing 1-for-1 trades if I have to. Otherwise, outside of Hazoret, the other sideboard cards are allllll toolbox cards. Since there are already so many win-cons front loaded into the main deck, I can get away with it.

    • Bloodbraid Elf JUND: Loss 1-2
    • -3 Chalice of the Void +2 Hazoret +1 Spyglass
    • Bogles: Win 2-0
    • -1 Abrade -4 Eidolon +1 S.Spyglass (name seal of primordium) +4 Anger of the Gods
    • Bloodbraid Elf JUND: Win 2-0
    • see above
    • G/x Tron: Loss 1-2
    • (depends on play/draw when it comes to keeping/siding bridge count - don't be overconfident on being able to overwhelm before W. Engine/Thrag) -2 Slagstorm -3 Ensnaring Bridge +1 damping sphere +2 damping matrix +1 sorcerous spyglass +1 Hazoret the Fervent
    • Coco Vizier Combo: Loss 1-2
    • -Every single creature (except Hazoret), Chalices, and Moons +Every single sideboard card except Damping Sphere, Here you win on Chandra/Hazoret - that's it. 14 card swap. Grin

    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck

    @dmunozg: Inspired application of Outpost Siege! Where there was never a reason to elect the 'dragon' modality of that card, you've devised it as the newest 'prison' card.

    If you can start ratcheting up the Goblin Gun then the (Rabble/Warboss) 1/1s getting fired acrossed the field EITHER hit for 1 damage OR die for 1 damage. Very cool, dude. I can see Outpost Siege serve as an even better version of Sarkhan, Fireblood. It's a lot easier for Outpost Siege to deal damage OR draw, and it's not in the very crowded 3-cmc slot. Lastly - it ain't all that easy to attack an enchantment. HUh - bunny

    • I like how you've included Chandra, Torch of Defiance back into the build - I've done the same.
    • I don't know about the land construction -- Zhalfirin Void is very hard to run in a deck with so many red mana symbols in the CMC.
    • I think you should swap those Slagstorm in the sideboard to Anger of the Gods instead
    • What do you think of Goblin Cratermaker? I have moved away from it - once believed to be a straight up superior card to abrade, I now have my doubts.

    I like what you're trying -- will attempt to sleeve up a version of your take on Goblin Gun when I get a moment. Also, forthcoming is a decklist/tourney report from a 10K tournament this weekend - spoiler: there was no money finish this time around.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    First - Thalia?? Surely, you jest. Weird

    Chalice comes out immediately - fire it at 1. Use a monkey to get it out if you can.

    I'm not sure I understand the Hazoret question. I get her out when I can, and continue to use the discard effect when it makes sense. But, she is a house in this build - currently 2/1 splite md/sb.

    I'm still weighing options for win-cons that aren't aggro attack. Maaaaaybe a Koth of the Hammer returns to the SB? The reasoning is that there are times when bridge/angers come in, and you need to find a way to still win. Example of this is Bogles (our best matchup). Normally, we Chandra/Koth our way to victory, but not in this build. All 'goblin gun' gobbos have to come out, since auto-attacking into life-linked fatties is bad jujitsu. And, our hand will start to fill up IF they get out Gaddock Teeg (can't cast our XX chalices).

    This example of diminished advantage against bogles illustrates how the Stock List had some 'overly-favored' matchups alongside some struggles against U/W control. Now, we're smoothing our advantages out a little. Current Record is 10-1 with a loss to eldrazi stompy.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Cheers, dude!

    Here she be. 5-0 in a Competitive league. I faced: GDS / GDS / Burn / Burn / BG Lantern

    Recent Changes to Goblin Gun:

    The loss of Ensnaring Bridge from the main deck has been furthered shored up by the addition of (3) Gods to the main deck. They obviously come with perks: Hazoret is a gal we know well. Purphoros finally has found a home! With so many red mana he can be switched on at a reasonable rate, pumping the team is badass, and he often pings for 2 repeatedly when Rabble/Warboss spit out their 'goblin gun' hasty critters.

    And, with the gods, we can stand tall in the case of stalemates - finally answers to fatties like Goyf and Gurmag! The ramp has been superb, and check this out: I'm now confident against Tron, and I bring in 0 cards against Burn. None. Ha! Smileup
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    It's been tried, Jayngles. Trinisphere is best utilized in legacy decks: Sol Lands and fast artifact mana. For us? It renders our rituals useless, and just generally a bit too slow for Modern.

    Goblin Gun continues to get tweaked, and Fluffy ran a couple leagues with a variant last night. My Changes:

    + Mountain
    - Mutavault
    (gotta maximize as much red as possible for early Eidolon/Ninja)

    + Hazoret the Fervent
    - Pyretic Ritual
    (with a lower-to-the-ground build, rituals aren't as necessary)

    I thiiiiink I'll explore a 2nd Hazoret the Fervent in the maindeck. I'm still shying away from Planeswalkers at this point for fear of being unable to protect them. I bopped a phyrexian metamorph in the SB last night, and copied a Gurmag Angler. 1 Fish - 2 Fish
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    massive raid can be a lethal top deck, Zayl.

    I will pay attention to how many creatures are out and how it would play out if I drew one.

    Another option with more adaptability: grab the reins. Picture a pumped rabble OR nabbing a wurmcoil/goyf/primetime/Eldrazi to deliver a surprise win.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Fluff saw your 5-0. Watched the stream. Boss! Hey, it was an undefeated 5-0 to be fair.

    I did a 4-1 in a friendly with Goblin Shoes. Loss was to a ridonculous Mono - White Martyr deck that needed bridge for an assured win.

    Reviewing Frig’s thoughts and analysis. It makes sense for where he’s pushing the testing. BUT, that’s not where I’m going.


    I say NO skred/bolt/removal, but he says yes.

    I say keep in the Chalice main deck, and he says no.

    I maintain a balanced sideboard, but he goes full Goblin Aggro on the Transitional, whereas I would never not have 4 Goblin Rabblemaster in the Main deck.

    Goblin Piledriver and Warren Instigator are fine cards, but provide 0 board impact upon casting. They are way down the totem pole on viable goblin options UNLESS you’re going for a dedicated goblin deck, as you wisely note, but...even then. no.

    Lastly, Eidolon is a nope in your list, but they’re tremendously useful in a creature dense build. Similarly, a single Magus can be heaven sent as blood moon 5. These inclusions ONLY work as part of a greater assemblage of ground pounders.

    Historically, It’s appreciable. Eidolon was NEVER considered useful as any part of the 75. And, then. Suddenly. A lightbulb.

    Take all of this feedback with the greatest of respect. Just some jibber jibber, Friend.

    @Fluffy: How About That Build I Proposed? As Frig noted, it’s style has a very specific pivot on success rates for traditional matchups. Highlight: 4 Chainwhirler to punch through alongside Warboss AND 4 Eidolon to punish spell-heavy creations as well as control/combo.

    Give it a whirl....

    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    Regarding Warboss - Only 1 must attack. The 1 spawned.

    Ensnaring bridge —- of sorts. Crowd the battlefield with enough bodies to create a bulwark. OR, enough to create a stalemate standoff.

    @Frig: superb feedback. I’ll definitely refelect.

    Overall, the exciting evolution is RRR and RR spells. Early on, we kept searching for Rrr spells to justify staying mono-red under a blood moon.

    There was ball lightning, cyclops gladiator, ..... not much. Since then, a lot of Rrr has been published.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    @GPash: Looking at that mousetrap....ummmm. Weird Gotta think on that one.
    @Natehill: Wise words. Nice to hear your voice around these parts again.
    @Frig: Keep cranking. I see where you're going, and I just petitioned Walked to share any updates that he has on his Silver Moon variant - should be helpful to you.

    O.K. - A Modern season on MTGO just closed. So, let's see where we stood for repeatedly successful decks. It's pretty much me (MTGO username: Raystack) & Russ Colosi (stickballruss / fadvisor82).

    Russ put up (6) 5-0 Trophies with this variant on the Stock List:

    And, I nabbed (4) 5-0 Trophies and a Modern Challenge Top 8 with varying builds of a Trash Dragons list.

    So, what's new for the season? In a few words, Guilds of Ravnica. Two motherjammers just wandered out of town and up the mountainside: Goblin Cratermaker and Legion Warboss. What do we think? Let 'em in? Eyebrow

    Goblin Cratermaker = Abrade. That's how I see it. He is Abrade on a Stick. And, better than that, he can fell titans like Karn, Ugin, TKS, Endbringer, Reality Smasher, and he can attack planeswalkers. Get 'Em! He's not just a shatter or a shock. He's a smooth 2-drop that pays dividends instead of a drawn abrade on turn 2 with no targets and nothing else to cast. Don't know if you noticed, but...while you were reading this, I just cleared a spot for him around the campfire. He's in.

    Legion Warboss = Ensnaring Bridge. That's right. By tag-teaming Warboss with Rabblemaster, the creature count has reached critical mass. These two are firing out 1/1 Goblins each turn like a gatling gun....a gobling gun, perhaps. Kekeke So much so, that we should be able to, with the assistance of chalice/moon, run over an opponent or square up for a fair fight.

    Note: Eidolon of the great revel has also joined the main deck party, ala Porno for Pyros builds, which swells the main deck creature count to the new heights. No Longer! Never again shall we issue calls for aid from our top deck draws. The win-cons are now creature based and everywhere. Quick sidenote: Goblin Chainwhirler is a 4-of, and totally replaces all maindeck sweepers. So, that means NO maindeck sweepers/spot removal, just Goblins. Are we really putting that much faith in Goblins. For the purposes of early testing, Yes! Warboss is a new leader. He's in.

    But, what of the Planeswalkers?! There are none? Indeed. None. Without ensnaring bridge, I simply can not protect them. And, I won't have their blood on my hands, kinfolk! Neither Chandra's nor Koth's....funky, lava ooze. Does Koth have blood?? Yeah, they're out. This deck goes low to the ground in game one, and uses a transitional sideboard in game 2.

    Transitional sideboard: (4) Ensnaring Bridge and (4) Anger of the Gods. In those cases where we can't hope to overwhelm in a fair fight, then we are back to a more traditional Pyro Prison build. Pull the Eidolons out and go Bridge/Anger or a mix. Depends. But, we will see this action against:
    Bogles, Soul Sisters, Elves, Hollow One, Humans, Merfolk, Spirit-Aggro, BridgeVine.

    Goblinized Warfare


    Let's see how these Goblin Shoes run. Notice how many 4-ofs are in the list? Consistency aaaaand Explosiveness, me hopes.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Deck
    A couple radically different decks got laid out earlier in this page by Hobo-Stew and FRIG. And, if nothing else is there to be loved, there are the names. Outstandingly creative. FRIG I get (as I'm from New England), but Hobo-Stew....sounds even more threatening than Mung.

    First, an update to the great Void experiment. I like it. I got aggressive and went the full (4) just to see if I'd screw myself. It did happen, and the loss of Goblin Chainwhirler from the (75) is noted in certain matchups. With 4 Void, you really can't run Ramunap ruins. You're either scrying extra land away, so that you never get up to enough to fire them off, or if you do finally get to 5/6/7 mana, it's safe to say that it's under a blood moon. For now, I'm tinkering with 3 zhalfirin void, but I miss my mutavault most of all.

    Speaking of lands, I like the inclusion of Inventor's Fair in FRIG's deck. With a full toolbox sideboard to call upon in games 2/3, that must come in handy. My concern on the build is what you've already mentioned: threat level. It's low. Very low. No Goblin Rabblemaster and No Eidolon of the Great Revel. There are no win-conditions in your sideboard - just more shields. Your wins come from (3) places: Karn/Chandra/Attack Monkeys. Against the wrong matchups, like control-combo, thats some tough sledding down the mountain. Consider a couple Hazoret the Fervent??

    And, I know you mentioned that you're new to the game, so I get the 62 card build. But, the cardinal rule of Magic is 60. You will never see a deck in a top-8 list that runs even 1 card more than 60. I'd drop the claws of gix. But, again, I like where your head is at - tons of creativity.

    Hobo-Stew hits upon a 0 Chalice of the Void deck construction - NONE. Brotha packs in 4 lightning bolt and 4 faithless looting instead. Having bolt must be awesome. But, the full playset of faithless? What other 1-drops can you now exploit. I guess my front runner would be Relic of Progenitus. It cantrips, drops easily and can really screw with the right opponent. If you go Relics/Zhalfirin/ that's some dig.

    Alright, kinfolk. Keep chucking rocks in the schoolyard, and high hopes for Goblin Cratermaker release.
    Posted in: Control
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