Mirage Mirror is amazing. Pretty sure you could put that in almost any EDH deck and it would be welcome. People basically have to kill it if they want to play their game. Want to drop an eldrazi? Cool, for two mana I'll take one too and now mine attacks first since its not summoning sick. Avacyn and Obliterate? Sweet, I like indestructible too, good bye everyone else. Necropotence? Sure, I'll refill my hand for 2 mana. And I still get a draw step! Oh you dropped Gaea's Cradle or Cabal Coffers and Urborg? Sounds good to me, I got plenty of creatures and/or swamps too!
Basically all the broken things your opponents do because they aren't in mono-red you can fling right back in their face for 2 mana. And it works on our side too. Ogre battledriver, pandemonium, panharmonicon, etc.
Oh wait, that hits enchantments? Derp. Okay. That's pretty solid.
Yep, anything but planeswalkers basically (which makes sense since it would just instantly die lol). Lands will be a nice little trick at times too for sure. Some others could be snagging an instant marit lage token from someone trying to pull off Dark DepthsThespian's Stage as a nasty little surprise. Or copy someone's Glacial Chasm to get the benefit without the cumulative upkeep cost.
Any thoughts on Mirage Mirror? Extra cloning seems really nice to have.
Mirage Mirror is amazing. Pretty sure you could put that in almost any EDH deck and it would be welcome. People basically have to kill it if they want to play their game. Want to drop an eldrazi? Cool, for two mana I'll take one too and now mine attacks first since its not summoning sick. Avacyn and Obliterate? Sweet, I like indestructible too, good bye everyone else. Necropotence? Sure, I'll refill my hand for 2 mana. And I still get a draw step! Oh you dropped Gaea's Cradle or Cabal Coffers and Urborg? Sounds good to me, I got plenty of creatures and/or swamps too!
Basically all the broken things your opponents do because they aren't in mono-red you can fling right back in their face for 2 mana. And it works on our side too. Ogre battledriver, pandemonium, panharmonicon, etc. All the great ETB enablers are better doubled.
There's really only two things it doesn't do well.
It does not refire ETBs like a card like Clone or Sculpting Steel would. That's unfortunate but I think is more then made up for by its versatility since for 2 mana a turn it can keep being the worst thing on the board. At instant speed too.
It doesn't copy mana rocks. Well it can but that's its least effective use. I mean I guess it could copy a Gilded Lotus if you were strapped for one mana but its not really for copying rocks like sculpting steel is.
I can't imagine how this thing doesn't find a spot personally. To each their own but it is definitely going in my build.
Thoughts? Very very high on the curve, but does damm near everything we want. Tutoring all day long. Taking us off the throne. Sac outlet. And brings the beef.
Though, might only find it's way into a budget/ casual build...
Too expensive; my curve caps out at 6. Marchesa doesn't play to the long game.
There's only one card over 6 that I play - Rune-Scarred Demon. And that's because he's just so brutal as a giant flying body and his ETB. And obviously completely insane off of Sneak Attack (although what isn't insane of sneak attack).
I am giving very serious consideration to this guy. He is better in some ways, at the very least he is as good. Also frankly I need more fatties. The graveyard hate is getting out of control, there's just way too much good hate. And now every deck has access to an on-demand Bojuka Bog in Scavenger Bog and a colorless Withered Wretch in Crook of Condemnation. Recycling any cheap creatures is just not a given anymore these days. Wizards has given all decks a lot of tools to really make graveyard abuse difficult with a number of their recent cards.
"Sphinx tribal"? I'm curious what you're referring to here, I'm blanking on what other sphinx's matter to pandemonium. I would think playing pande against a sharuum deck is always hazardous since every sharuum deck runs sculpting steel and pande turns that into an instant combo win.
You are absolutely right, Sharuum is a terrible example. But the general idea was that sometimes you see a commander that isn't known for playing a big heavy creature suite like Dragonlord Ojutai, you think it's safe to play Pandemonium, and then they start slamming down dragons every turn. That's typically the cases where I've had Pandemonium backfire the most. Sometimes it's a easier to spot a game when Pandemonium will benefit you or not, and sometimes you get surprised. All in all, we can talk about Pandemonium all we want, but it's just a very situational card. Really the best thing to do if you're not used to playing with it is just play it and see how the game turns out (Not talking about you CentralCommand, obviously you've pushed the card to its limit if you died to a Blightsteel Colossus). Should we do a flow chart? I vote to still play it against Sharuum, just to see if it all tilts the game away from always trying to kill the Sharuum deck first.
Truth be told I was half-kidding about Blightsteel Colossus, I don't see him that often. But it did happen once. I think someone Bribery'ed, found the blightsteel while searching and said "well, that solves our norin/pande problem". It's not really a huge risk but he can be hidden away in any deck. As can our giant eldrazi "friends".
Of all the suggestions you made, I'll take Pandemonium into consideration again - it's backfires soooo many times...
Yeah, that card 'll do that to you. That card is good early game so it makes people rethink the entire game, and makes people waste removal to get rid of the card, or late game when stuff is at a standstill. It's also a little tricky in that you have to cross your fingers and hope that that Sharuum the Hegemon deck isn't playing a sphinx tribal deck for what ever weird reason. Honestly though, hats off if that's the game I find myself in.
"Sphinx tribal"? I'm curious what you're referring to here, I'm blanking on what other sphinx's matter to pandemonium. I would think playing pande against a sharuum deck is always hazardous since every sharuum deck runs sculpting steel and pande turns that into an instant combo win.
Personally I'd never cut pandemonium. Those effects are just too good with norin to cut. They absolutely backfire sometimes but everything is a gamble in this deck so it fits right in. As long as the number of times my opponent lays down a blightsteel colossus and targets me in response remain significantly less then the number of times norin dominates a board with it I'll keep it. But yea, it isn't a card you can just blindly lay down late game, you have to play it more carefully then that.
Well, in theory if i wanted this deck, I'd only need to drop 2400 dollars on it. That's reasonable.
Well yeah, but tbh I wouldn't recommend this as a starter deck anyway. It takes some piloting, and as you mention is financially crippling. I'm not saying definitely don't, I'm saying you may want to set your sights a little lower. And bear in mind reading the primers on mtgsalvation, they're written by people who've spent some time and money grinding away to finely tune their decks - most of them didn't walk in to a game store and drop $1500 to construct a deck from scratch. It is a work in progress, and that's what makes it fun. It's also part of the testing process - each individual card you add will interact differently, and whether or not it's a good fit isn't always clear at first blush. So taking it slowly and tinkering away tends to be the best idea anyway.
I hope all this helps. Don't get discouraged, there's some great decks out there that you don't need to sell a kidney for. You may even have the makings of something special in the cards you already have.
Is there a place where I can get deck construction help online?
And this deck would be TOO bad if it weren't for that 1400 dollar land. I did a quick search through this decklist to try and find every card, and even the 115 dollar Lion's eye has a special non-tourney legal version for like 2 bucks. Which I don't care about, so I could shave off a lot of this deck's cost by getting reprint and special one-off editions. I just need to find something to sub for that really expensive guy.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale? You don't need that. I mean its very very good in a deck that usually has very few creatures and lots of mana but its not necessary at all. I believe Juwdah commented on that card specifically a while back, that he's running it because he has it but is going to make sure its not mandatory for the deck since it costs so much.
Just put in like Static Orb or some other lockdown piece instead. Obviously tabernacle is better but that particular piece is definitely replaceable without too much loss. I know I don't have one and mine plays just fine.
I love this deck idea. I got two cards into the deck list and instantly stepped back from the sheer cost of this thing. I am a new player and building this EHD deck would break my bank and my soul.
It is possible to make a cheaper version. There are a lot of pricey cards in the primer list that I don't run, and the rest are replaceable. Most of the key components for the combo-y stuff aren't expensive. While it's going to run slower and less powerfully than the primer list, I could easily run a version that's $150 or less.
I would love to have that deck list. I like the idea of this deck, but those mana gems alone are in the 400 dollar range. I am new to EDH and magic in general so I don't think I wanna jump quite off that deep end. Yet at the same time, all the people I play with seem to have incredibly stupidly powerful decks and my meager collection cant do a damn thing about.
It had really made the game overall harder to enjoy because I just don't have years of collecting under my belt. At the same time I like the game, I just don't wanna feel like these people can just stomp me whenever they want with these powerful decks. I don't know enough about the game to be able to build a deck, or know what my deck needs to make it work better.
I feel lost.
That sucks and I sympathise. I've built a version of this deck that is similar, and even in it's budget state it's not as cheap as you'd like. That having been said, a lot of the real workhorses in this deck are the cheap uncommons and commons that you dig through crates for.
This is sort of aside from the point of this thread, but my two cents are as follows: If you're playing with your mates, you're new to the game and they're not, they owe it to you to play decks that scale to your level accordingly. Given that you've commented on one of the longest threads on this site, it feels like you may have jumped in the deep end to some degree. But having said that, a simple reset could be what you need. If your collection is lacking (in your opinion) a REALLY good place to start is to pick up one of the commander precons that takes your fancy, and start building from there.
The beauty of this format is that you can build any way you like around any legendary creature. So find a creature that inspires you, and get crafting. Bear in mind also, that just because a card fits perfectly, does not mean it's the only choice. You can always compromise as your budget allows.
I literally just started playing. So my card library consists of about 50 packs spread through Kaladesh and Aether Revolt in total.
I think my best option is going to be trying to find a decently cheap deck and buy a few cards at a time until I have a deck. *shrug*. I guess that's the new player woes.
In my opinion, the most expensive part of EDH is the staples. The landbase, the mana rocks/acceleration pieces, the tutors, the draw/filter effects, the disruption, etc. The cards you actually want to play for any particular deck that build around your commander ironically are usually the cheapest parts.
It's all the stuff around those that makes the deck operate like a well-oiled machine that drives up costs.
However its a curve, just about all those staples have cheaper less effective alternatives. But subbing them out affects some decks a lot more then others. This deck for instance is a rough one to cut back on. There is absolutely a plethora of cheap mana rocks. But when kozilek is your commander your playgroup is definitely on edge, they know how devastating he can be. So if all the cutbacks you make in the mana deparatment make it hard to play him before turn 7 or 8 then the deck as a whole becomes a lot less effective. You'll need to add all sorts of early game protection plays because if your first creature is usually landing that late you are going to be in big trouble by the time he comes down. Well at least in a strong playgroup, could be fine in a very casual environment.
Not all decks are like that though. My first EDH deck once I got into this world was actually Norin the Wary. I didn't know it at the time but I'd actually whole-heartedly recommend it as a good starter for these reasons:
It's mono-red. Most of the expensive staples are not red
The deck is pretty cheap for the most part and most of the expensive pieces can absolutely be cut back. Scaling back the mana rocks in that deck for instance is completely fine since everything is so cheap. Norin's best rocks are ironically Honor-Worn Shaku and Springleaf Drum which are dirt cheap.
You can absolutely scale it and acquire pieces to improve it over time.
It's a blast to play. It's actually not a chaos deck despite having some chaos pieces, its all synergy and strategy. It's very hard to predict because it can win in so many different ways. It actually holds its own really well against moderately competitive decks. It's not a tournament optimized deck by any means but my group is group is casual-competitive and it holds its own very well.
By casual competitive I mean no holds barred matches with very strong decks but not fully tuned. We still like to build around commanders not just like BUG goodstuff combo.
I did some cross referencing but nothing jumped out at me. I was wondering is someone could see something that I couldn't after staring at lists for hours.
I'm very confused.
1. What are you asking us to compare it to? The main list on page 1 of this board? If you're just trying to copy this decklist over to tappedout why not just quote the original post (so it appears in the posting textbox in raw form), copy and paste?
Just in general - anything that would normally go in a Kozilek list that isn't there.
2. You have 100 cards in that tappedout list. 99 in the main deck + 1 commander. It doesn't look like anything is missing...
Right - because as I said I added a Wastes to make it 100 so I didn't have to mark it as prototype in tappedout.
That's not all the differences, that's just cards from the main kozi list that have done a ton of work for me and you aren't playing. You're welcome to pick one although obviously you've made a lot of your own choices so I'm not sure anyone is going to be able to help you figure out exactly what card you liked that somehow got left off the list.
I did some cross referencing but nothing jumped out at me. I was wondering is someone could see something that I couldn't after staring at lists for hours.
I'm very confused.
What are you asking us to compare it to? The main list on page 1 of this board? If you're just trying to copy this decklist over to tappedout why not just quote the original post (so it appears in the posting textbox in raw form), copy and paste?
You have 100 cards in that tappedout list. 99 in the main deck + 1 commander. It doesn't look like anything is missing...
I'm exactly where you are. I really like it but idk if it's good enough to warrant cutting something else.
Olivia, Mobilized for War?
PROS
Haste is free. Olivia makes you pitch a card to grant it (pretty expensive cost, I use this ability very infrequently because of that)
Free EOT sac effect. Usable once per turn even if the creature didn't need haste.
CONS
Not a creature. 3/3 flyers for 3 are pretty awesome, big con here.
No dethrone = probably no haste. Olivia provides a non dethrone source of counters, this really banks on dethrone.
No immediate +1/+1 counter. I'd expect to be able to get a +1/+1 counter via dethrone if I'm using this ability but its worth noting.
I can't imagine replacing any other haste source for this. And I feel like the cons probably outweigh the pros even for olivia. Could replace a sac effect? Maybe Eldrazi Monument since it is also a noncreature? But honestly that feels like a pretty crappy trade.
Yea idk. And all the cards not pulling their weight have been cut long ago.
Do I want to give norin the power to kill any creature on the board even when their toughness is a lot higher then his power when Pandemonium or Warstorm Surge is out? Yes. Yes I do.
I have started testing Hanweir Garrison, in addition to the Battlements, as a way to go wide, but also because of some digging I did when I played around with an Infect version of Marchesa and discovered Breath of Fury. Garrison and that is an infinite attack step but more importantly, Breath is a psuedo-sac outlet and good even if we're not swinging forever.
I forgot all about Breath of Fury. I definitely have one sitting in my box somewhere, I forget why I bought it. I currently have no equipment or auras in my build but if any deserves a spot its probably that. I was never a huge fan of Scourge of the Throne (even if he is effective), maybe I'll try it out.
Also I kind of forgot how much power Hanweir Garrison can throw down for 3 mana so maybe its time to see if he can find a slot too. I do run the battlements already so at the very least it could be fun to run him until I managed to meld him once then decide if he actually deserves a spot.
Anyone already had the pleasure of playing with Marchesa's new toys? Curious how they played out! For me, Metallic Mimic, Yehenni, Undying Partisan and Treasure Keeper all made it in, but unfortunately can't play a game until next week..
All in all set looks great so far, my Brago and Ezuri both got new stuff as well ^^
Metallic Mimic is a superstar. He is just as busted as we thought. He's Sage of Fables on crack because not only is he cheaper but he can change his type around mid-game to better fit the tech you have. You can loop anything with a pulse now, not just wizards. I highly recommend looping a Solemn Simulacrum once a turn for a round.
Treasure Keeper is cool. Only played him once so far in a very weird game. We do planechase EDH a lot and an opponent decided to play Chaos Warp with Glimmervoid Basin out there. He then followed it with a Swords to Plowshares so that's why he was willing to risk the nasty creatures coming out. Obviously I was ill-prepared for this particular form of removal since I had just been warp world'ed so all keeper ended up doing was getting sac'ced instead of plowed to net me a permanent instead of additional life and hand off the throne to someone else. Not terribly exciting but not bad either.
Yahenni, Undying Partisan hasn't made it onto the battlefield yet. Sac effects are always good, I'm not really expecting much more out of him. Maybe if I face off against a token deck sometime he'll do something awesome.
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider: Not for me: I dislike that she needs to attack; people tend to. As a token producer I like Mog War Marshal better for the same mana cost. Which is a shame, because I would very much like to play with a Legendary Monkey Pirate.
Pia's Revolution: Strong, but I think it's a bit of a win more-card. I like my nontoken artifacts in play, so I can copy them.
Release the Gremlins: Very happy with this one. Looking forward to exiling lots of my own myr tokens.
Cogwork Assembler: Nice, but in order to do more than this it's activated ability should've cost 2 less.
Daredevil Dragster: Not good enough for me. It'll probably take you three turns before you can draw 2 for 3. That's not fast enough.
Gonti's Aether Heart: Might be the best card in the set for us. Unfortunately, I hate extra turns, so I'm not going to run it.
Paradox Engine: It'll probably better then you think at first. I tend to generate a lot of artifact mana and run quite wheel effects. Floating your mana, playing a wheel of fortune (or another wheel) and simultaneously untapping all your mana rocks is very powerful. I can see this one change games for us, but mostly in quite a cheesy way. I don't know if I want to go that way.
Scrap Trawler: Love this guy, it adds value too a lot of cards. I suppose it's most valuable when you play lots of 0-mana artifacts since myr tokens die a lot. Imagine returning your looted artifact lands with this guy by sacrificing a myr. Nice! Could mean the return of Tormod's Crypt too, and I like that it adds value to my Memory Jar too. Has synergy with Goblin Welder, with Daretti, Scrap Savant... The more I think about it, the better it gets. (Man. This is nuts with Feldon of the third Path.)
Treasure Keeper: Feels too random. There's hardly any top deck manipulation in most Norin lists.
Indomitable Creativity - Already in. Seems pretty fantastic. I cut Aftershock because I don't have a problem using it on particular dangerous enemy creatures. We'll see though.
Metallic Mimic - He's in. We make a lot of tokens, sometimes goblins, sometimes myr, sometimes even thopter. We also run Pandemonium and Warstorm Surge. He's a 2-drop artifact creature that can customize himself to boost any of these primary strategies based on what else I've drawn. Seems amazing, I'm definitely trying him out. I cut Manic Vandal since he's just bonus artifact hate.
Scrap Trawler - I really like this guy. But is he just bonus synergy with Goblin Welder and Daretti, Scrap Savant or are we convinced he can always provide solid standalone value? He seems worth testing but I'm not sold yet.
Release the Gremlins - So I get that this card looks good. Destroy artifacts, make tokens, win-win. But I mean it isn't a creature and it costs 5 to take out 2 artifacts and make 2 2/2s. At 5 mana Shattering Spree destroys 5 artifacts, Vandalblast is a one-sided artifact wipe, Siege-Gang Commander throws down 4 creatures and 5 power, Mogg Infestation turns a whole board into a pile of 1/1s, etc. I guess what I'm saying is, this feels like both a very inefficient token generator and a very inefficient artifact killer. Yes those two are better together but is that good enough? Idk I'm not sold.
The no's
Gonti's Aether Heart - I have absolutely no problem with extra turns. But I don't actually think this card is good. We have no other ways to use E at this moment. So what does it really do? For 6 I get an artifact that does absolutely nothing unless I manage to also bring 3 other artifacts into play without someone destroying it first. And if I manage to pull all that off I get what? A single extra turn. No possibility for abuse either, it exiles itself as part of its cost. If we have some other way to use E then I could see potentially playing this. It could easily make a huge amount of E in a very short time and once you hit 8 you can use its ability in response to any removal. But otherwise I don't think this card is even close to powerful enough to justify its CMC and ability cost.
Treasure Keeper - Nifty but not for this deck. Basically just bonus welder/daretti synergy. Plus no idea what we'll hit and we're adding more X spells, doesn't seem good for us.
Universal Solvent - Yea this is clearly just an improvise/affinity friendly version of Unstable Obelisk. I don't think we have enough pure artifact synergy to justify this.
Kari Zev, Skyship Raider, Pia's Revolution, Cogwork Assembler, Daredevil Dragster - Honestly all these guys seem bad in commander in general, definitely no. Well multiplayer anyway, which is my primary concern, Pia's is could definitely work in the right 1v1 deck. Kari Zev is a mega-bummer too, monkey pirates are awesome.
Yep, anything but planeswalkers basically (which makes sense since it would just instantly die lol). Lands will be a nice little trick at times too for sure. Some others could be snagging an instant marit lage token from someone trying to pull off Dark Depths Thespian's Stage as a nasty little surprise. Or copy someone's Glacial Chasm to get the benefit without the cumulative upkeep cost.
This thing has all sorts of uses!
Mirage Mirror is amazing. Pretty sure you could put that in almost any EDH deck and it would be welcome. People basically have to kill it if they want to play their game. Want to drop an eldrazi? Cool, for two mana I'll take one too and now mine attacks first since its not summoning sick. Avacyn and Obliterate? Sweet, I like indestructible too, good bye everyone else. Necropotence? Sure, I'll refill my hand for 2 mana. And I still get a draw step! Oh you dropped Gaea's Cradle or Cabal Coffers and Urborg? Sounds good to me, I got plenty of creatures and/or swamps too!
Basically all the broken things your opponents do because they aren't in mono-red you can fling right back in their face for 2 mana. And it works on our side too. Ogre battledriver, pandemonium, panharmonicon, etc. All the great ETB enablers are better doubled.
There's really only two things it doesn't do well.
- It does not refire ETBs like a card like Clone or Sculpting Steel would. That's unfortunate but I think is more then made up for by its versatility since for 2 mana a turn it can keep being the worst thing on the board. At instant speed too.
- It doesn't copy mana rocks. Well it can but that's its least effective use. I mean I guess it could copy a Gilded Lotus if you were strapped for one mana but its not really for copying rocks like sculpting steel is.
I can't imagine how this thing doesn't find a spot personally. To each their own but it is definitely going in my build.There's only one card over 6 that I play - Rune-Scarred Demon. And that's because he's just so brutal as a giant flying body and his ETB. And obviously completely insane off of Sneak Attack (although what isn't insane of sneak attack).
I am giving very serious consideration to this guy. He is better in some ways, at the very least he is as good. Also frankly I need more fatties. The graveyard hate is getting out of control, there's just way too much good hate. And now every deck has access to an on-demand Bojuka Bog in Scavenger Bog and a colorless Withered Wretch in Crook of Condemnation. Recycling any cheap creatures is just not a given anymore these days. Wizards has given all decks a lot of tools to really make graveyard abuse difficult with a number of their recent cards.
Truth be told I was half-kidding about Blightsteel Colossus, I don't see him that often. But it did happen once. I think someone Bribery'ed, found the blightsteel while searching and said "well, that solves our norin/pande problem". It's not really a huge risk but he can be hidden away in any deck. As can our giant eldrazi "friends".
"Sphinx tribal"? I'm curious what you're referring to here, I'm blanking on what other sphinx's matter to pandemonium. I would think playing pande against a sharuum deck is always hazardous since every sharuum deck runs sculpting steel and pande turns that into an instant combo win.
Personally I'd never cut pandemonium. Those effects are just too good with norin to cut. They absolutely backfire sometimes but everything is a gamble in this deck so it fits right in. As long as the number of times my opponent lays down a blightsteel colossus and targets me in response remain significantly less then the number of times norin dominates a board with it I'll keep it. But yea, it isn't a card you can just blindly lay down late game, you have to play it more carefully then that.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale? You don't need that. I mean its very very good in a deck that usually has very few creatures and lots of mana but its not necessary at all. I believe Juwdah commented on that card specifically a while back, that he's running it because he has it but is going to make sure its not mandatory for the deck since it costs so much.
Just put in like Static Orb or some other lockdown piece instead. Obviously tabernacle is better but that particular piece is definitely replaceable without too much loss. I know I don't have one and mine plays just fine.
In my opinion, the most expensive part of EDH is the staples. The landbase, the mana rocks/acceleration pieces, the tutors, the draw/filter effects, the disruption, etc. The cards you actually want to play for any particular deck that build around your commander ironically are usually the cheapest parts.
It's all the stuff around those that makes the deck operate like a well-oiled machine that drives up costs.
However its a curve, just about all those staples have cheaper less effective alternatives. But subbing them out affects some decks a lot more then others. This deck for instance is a rough one to cut back on. There is absolutely a plethora of cheap mana rocks. But when kozilek is your commander your playgroup is definitely on edge, they know how devastating he can be. So if all the cutbacks you make in the mana deparatment make it hard to play him before turn 7 or 8 then the deck as a whole becomes a lot less effective. You'll need to add all sorts of early game protection plays because if your first creature is usually landing that late you are going to be in big trouble by the time he comes down. Well at least in a strong playgroup, could be fine in a very casual environment.
Not all decks are like that though. My first EDH deck once I got into this world was actually Norin the Wary. I didn't know it at the time but I'd actually whole-heartedly recommend it as a good starter for these reasons:
Um, ok, well artifacts -
Lands -
Creatures -
That's not all the differences, that's just cards from the main kozi list that have done a ton of work for me and you aren't playing. You're welcome to pick one although obviously you've made a lot of your own choices so I'm not sure anyone is going to be able to help you figure out exactly what card you liked that somehow got left off the list.
I'm very confused.
Olivia, Mobilized for War?
PROS
Haste is free. Olivia makes you pitch a card to grant it (pretty expensive cost, I use this ability very infrequently because of that)
Free EOT sac effect. Usable once per turn even if the creature didn't need haste.
CONS
Not a creature. 3/3 flyers for 3 are pretty awesome, big con here.
No dethrone = probably no haste. Olivia provides a non dethrone source of counters, this really banks on dethrone.
No immediate +1/+1 counter. I'd expect to be able to get a +1/+1 counter via dethrone if I'm using this ability but its worth noting.
I can't imagine replacing any other haste source for this. And I feel like the cons probably outweigh the pros even for olivia. Could replace a sac effect? Maybe Eldrazi Monument since it is also a noncreature? But honestly that feels like a pretty crappy trade.
Yea idk. And all the cards not pulling their weight have been cut long ago.
Also helps random other abilities like Siege-Gang Commander and whatnot.
I forgot all about Breath of Fury. I definitely have one sitting in my box somewhere, I forget why I bought it. I currently have no equipment or auras in my build but if any deserves a spot its probably that. I was never a huge fan of Scourge of the Throne (even if he is effective), maybe I'll try it out.
Also I kind of forgot how much power Hanweir Garrison can throw down for 3 mana so maybe its time to see if he can find a slot too. I do run the battlements already so at the very least it could be fun to run him until I managed to meld him once then decide if he actually deserves a spot.
Metallic Mimic is a superstar. He is just as busted as we thought. He's Sage of Fables on crack because not only is he cheaper but he can change his type around mid-game to better fit the tech you have. You can loop anything with a pulse now, not just wizards. I highly recommend looping a Solemn Simulacrum once a turn for a round.
Treasure Keeper is cool. Only played him once so far in a very weird game. We do planechase EDH a lot and an opponent decided to play Chaos Warp with Glimmervoid Basin out there. He then followed it with a Swords to Plowshares so that's why he was willing to risk the nasty creatures coming out. Obviously I was ill-prepared for this particular form of removal since I had just been warp world'ed so all keeper ended up doing was getting sac'ced instead of plowed to net me a permanent instead of additional life and hand off the throne to someone else. Not terribly exciting but not bad either.
Yahenni, Undying Partisan hasn't made it onto the battlefield yet. Sac effects are always good, I'm not really expecting much more out of him. Maybe if I face off against a token deck sometime he'll do something awesome.
My two cents:
The very yes's
- Indomitable Creativity - Already in. Seems pretty fantastic. I cut Aftershock because I don't have a problem using it on particular dangerous enemy creatures. We'll see though.
- Metallic Mimic - He's in. We make a lot of tokens, sometimes goblins, sometimes myr, sometimes even thopter. We also run Pandemonium and Warstorm Surge. He's a 2-drop artifact creature that can customize himself to boost any of these primary strategies based on what else I've drawn. Seems amazing, I'm definitely trying him out. I cut Manic Vandal since he's just bonus artifact hate.
- Inspiring Statuary - Definitely in. At absolute worst a bad 3 rock, often a Worn Powerstone or better. I cut Coldsteel Heart (probably shouldn't have been in there to begin with).
The maybe's- Scrap Trawler - I really like this guy. But is he just bonus synergy with Goblin Welder and Daretti, Scrap Savant or are we convinced he can always provide solid standalone value? He seems worth testing but I'm not sold yet.
- Release the Gremlins - So I get that this card looks good. Destroy artifacts, make tokens, win-win. But I mean it isn't a creature and it costs 5 to take out 2 artifacts and make 2 2/2s. At 5 mana Shattering Spree destroys 5 artifacts, Vandalblast is a one-sided artifact wipe, Siege-Gang Commander throws down 4 creatures and 5 power, Mogg Infestation turns a whole board into a pile of 1/1s, etc. I guess what I'm saying is, this feels like both a very inefficient token generator and a very inefficient artifact killer. Yes those two are better together but is that good enough? Idk I'm not sold.
The no's