2019 Holiday Exchange!
 
A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    i think it would be a good wildcard play
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Quote from Jex »
    Quote from wrathofmatt »
    Quote from docp3584 »
    With the expected ban of an Ancient Tomb land and neutering the Eldrazi archetype, I will be expecting a lot of Affinity, Burn, G/B/x and Infect matchups come April. How does this deck fare against these top tier decks? I'm asking this because I just acquired most of the deck's components via trade with a former Splinter Twin player.


    UWR has always destroyed affinity, infect & burn, IMO if you remove the ups an downs between the two decks its actually quite hard to lose against them. I'm not nearly a professional player and I've made bad mistakes in tournament play and recovered against those decks. Besides that check out the last big data pull mtggolfish did on the modern metagame (i think its about 1/2year old) at that time UWR, although small in number, was one of the "winningest" decks.

    It's a 50/50 against jund, and abzan.

    It's horrendous against boggles, right now semi effective against eldrazi, and generally speaking if your up against something super grindy you may run out of cards before your opponent/lose.


    It's really easy to give yourself a good game against the grindy decks. If you gear your mainboard towards specifically the BGx matchup (Affinity, Infect and Burn will always be pretty good matchups regardless), you should have a 55/45 game against BGx. Player skill obviously comes into the matchup a lot, but you can make it a lot easier for yourself with good deckbuilding. This was my tactic before the meta died, and I found the only weakness was dedicated combo (such as Ad Nauseam). Those can be helped with sideboard.


    Yah I can agree to that, likely a slight edge to UWR in those matchups (55% is probably closer to right) but that last 10% is all skill based, i consider myself an average player so 50/50 for me.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Quote from docp3584 »
    With the expected ban of an Ancient Tomb land and neutering the Eldrazi archetype, I will be expecting a lot of Affinity, Burn, G/B/x and Infect matchups come April. How does this deck fare against these top tier decks? I'm asking this because I just acquired most of the deck's components via trade with a former Splinter Twin player.


    UWR has always destroyed affinity, infect & burn, IMO if you remove the ups an downs between the two decks its actually quite hard to lose against them. I'm not nearly a professional player and I've made bad mistakes in tournament play and recovered against those decks. Besides that check out the last big data pull mtggolfish did on the modern metagame (i think its about 1/2year old) at that time UWR, although small in number, was one of the "winningest" decks.

    It's a 50/50 against jund, and abzan.

    It's horrendous against boggles, right now semi effective against eldrazi, and generally speaking if your up against something super grindy you may run out of cards before your opponent/lose.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Quote from chaos021 »
    Ghostly Prison hoses them so hard. I can't believe no one else is playing it. I'm running it in UWR Control and Wilted Abzan deck.


    I've been running runed halo's and detention sphere against them, it hits a lot of decks so I've actually been putting the runed halos in my mainboard. Ghost quarter is really the staple anti aggro card, i couldnt see it being a total disaster to play.

    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    I think if you were to move to a midrange variant of UWR, intrepid hero might be more viable. The issue is he dies to everything and eldrazi decks having literally only gut shot, and you saying you want to use intrepid hero as an anti eldrazi card just makes it kind of hard to justify especially since hes one of almost no other targets, if that card had at least one thing: protection from white or red or 1/4 etc.... I`d say if your already going that way, to perhaps think about something more along the lines of fiend hunter, you have resto angels already and there is some good synergy there.

    Well if you splash for black like UWRb exists already, not sure if just splashing for a single card is worth it
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Quote from chaos021 »
    Screw you hippies! I'm going down with the ship (and my 4 Cryptic Commands). .


    LoL this post made me laugh thanks Smile Cryptic is so good, (Only criticism )i would say less than 4 is optimal right now tho having speed can be important, however i feel like based on conversations sometimes people are a little blinded on this forum into thinking that their way of playing/putting together decks is the only way to do it.

    Quote from Sxnr1se »
    Quote from RoKnRuiN1 »
    Your reasoning for not running more sweepers eludes me. You're saying you'd rather be weaker against the most dominant deck archetype of the format in trade to improve your game against decks that represent less than 15% of the Modern meta? I don't understand. That's like not playing Remand because it's bad against burn.


    You're right, having one more Verdict gives me a freewin against Eldrazi. Thanks for the advice!


    Sxnrise, it really depends on your strategy, if you feel like you have very little chance against the most popular deck, the freedom of UWR control is that you can actually put together a deck that is much stronger against the rest of the field, so why not be very strong against 85% of the field and bascially keep the status quo against eldrazi : from a certain perspective it makes sense. Now, on the other hand if you were to be "strong" against eldrazi UWR has the tools, we have all the strongest control cards at our disposal, (many that havent been mentioned on this forum very much) its possible to bomb your sideboard with creature hate or whatever you need to do well against... 15% of the meta. Cool.. and in the meantime you will lose more to other decks... i think you get the point.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Hi guys wanted to get your opinion, what are the benefits of running detention sphere over a card like runed halo?

    Would you considering running an extremely heavy eldrazi and aggro hate sideboard even if it isn't the most effective cards? So for example:

    2-3 Meddling Mage
    2-3 Runed Halo
    2 - Austere Command
    + regular cards like stoney silence, spellskite, some dispels etc..

    I'd love if magus of the moat was 3 cost...
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Quote from aRSKOG »
    Im very confident Wizard is going to make an "emergency ban" cos if they don't they got 2 GP's in March (GP Detroit and Bologna) which will get ruined by everyone to play Eldrazi. I..... onto Jeskai:

    I've been thinking that since Eldrazi seems like running Chalice main mixed with being consisntent of mainly 2+ drops i think Spell Snare is kinda dead, and i think we need some creature removal in the 2CMC slot that takes everything. Actually i was thinking to stack up wrath effects and maybe try out something like Feeling of Dread to try force my opponent into overcommitting into a wrath. what you guys think?


    I like feeling of dread, espeically for its flashback however have you considered just outright making them sacrifice their creatures? Celestial flare or something of that sort? By tapping them out, even twice you are relying on having two cards in hand where you will be likely running: 1-2 verdicts and .. 2-3 feeling of dread?? So 3-5 cards in a 60card deck seems very precarious.


    Also the eldrazi/bannings thing: Banning of hot decks such as pod & twin, likely all the jund changes over the years (all the decks they say are "too consistent") is not about making the game any better it's to open up the game to new cards. What they don't want is a large group of players to get complacent and stick with a deck that needs little to no tweaking. They want to ultimately sell more cards and modern players do not contribute to their bottom line.

    This among a hundred other reasons makes me think they will prolong this as long as possible in order to allow for other decks to come up and beat them, not because they are being patient and care, but rather because they are looking to get percieved value out of their new card set so more players in standard play (drafts etc.. ).

    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Quote from ThirdDegree »
    I played at SCG Regionals yesterday with the following list:

    3 Crytpic Command

    All in all a very solid event for me. Finished 21st out of 232. Going forward I didn't get much use out of spell snare. I wouldn't cut it entirely but I could see going down to 1. Rev, snap, rev was very real and played a pretty solid role in the whole day. Looking at the Pro tour, a lot of those eldrazi decks are lacking the on cast triggers, which leads me to think that with a little adjustments, control could be viable (but tough) in a meta full of eldrazi. It's the big eldrazi that really hurt. I might want to main deck 4 Ghost Quarters for that.


    Congratulations, that is really a great showing especially in a wide open - no one knows whats happening - meta. So i have to say im suprised by 3 cryptics, i recently came down to 1 thinking that i need to slot in more creatures and have a midrange-control hybrid like you have.

    I've gone down to a singleton of spell snare btw, and i do miss some interactions i had previously, it is a great card and missed but looks like there are likely much better plays out there.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Quote from tilzinger »
    Just took an 0-3 drop beating at Regionals.

    Match 1 against Tron. Busted GQ too early and he ramped and killed me. Game 2 turn 4 Karn followed by turn 5 Ugin. Scoop.
    Match 2 against BW Eldrazi. Rips my hand apart with Thoughtsieze and TKS. Steamrolls me with tokens and Reality Smasher both games.
    Match 3 BW Tokens. All right, a match I can win. Nooope. It was quite amazing how I flooded on lands game 1, and game 2 he had 2 anthems and an army of tokens.



    I've been thinking about this for both the UWR Control and midrange shell. I believe the answer lies in either making them unable to cast their cards or to force them to sacrifice their creatures. Plainswalkers are tougher to deal with in some cases.

    Runed Halo, Meddling mage, celestial flare, detention sphere, maybe mangara of corondor

    In the midrange shell I'm thinking solar tide for creature removal might be ok.

    Some of these options sound slower but might be worth testing out.

    On your question about serum visions, i personally run 2, but there is an argument for both less or more really depends.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Quote from Revhrain »
    Quote from sdownie »
    the kiki version might be a bit better vs eldrazi than pure control, cause they only have dismember as removal don't they? Then again they have thought-knot seer to break up the combo so idk.

    but pure control can have 3 verdicts in the 75, and an elspeth to help with the eldrazi, not sure if it would be enough, but would help. These eldrazi decks are everywhere at the pro tour. Besides the eldrazi deck though, a lot of other matchups in this meta are really good...even tron isn't that bad.


    I honestly don’t know what to do against these eldrazi decks, you need to run at least 2 ghost quarter, then I would run spreading seas main deck and perhaps 3 electrolyze hoping to get the mimics. It seems the meta is going to be affinity and eldrazi only until something gets banned.


    Something like wing shards would be helpful i think its too bad that hasnt been reprinted... celestial flare, immolating flare... runed halo, meddling mage
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] UWr Midrange
    Quote from Sabinfrost »
    Pretty cool. Bunch of stuff we've talked about like Elspeth and Hellkite. I like his deck a lot.
    Edit - Looking over it again while it is geared at beating Aggro, his deck is really light on counterspells, sideboard as well so I do wonder how some matches like Scapeshift would go.


    Me too really likeing that list

    He really did a great job of judging the current meta, i think thats why theres really nothing beyond aggro in mind, i think it will be a little bit of time before midrange has to be more control-ish.
    Posted in: Midrange
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    Quote from tilzinger »
    Quote from wrathofmatt »
    [quote from="Spooly »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/220015-uwr-control?comment=6079"]T16 From SCG Columbus.

    Creatures (10)
    3 Restoration Angel
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    1 Vendilion Clique
    Planeswalkers (2)
    2 Ajani Vengeant

    I like the list, that said.. i think this is UWR midrange not control


    I think everyone needs to realize that there are different ways to play control. It doesn't have to be draw go.
    </blockquote>

    Of course there are. Also i should have prefaced this by saying i really don't care too much about the definitions but just thought it funny (also creatures isnt the only thing that makes a control deck simply saying one has 10 and the other also has 10 therefore both are control is ridiculous). This paritular list that was posted also didnt have a single copy of crytpic, more soft counters than hard, and clearly mainly concentrates on clearing paths not control

    Lets compare this list with UWR midrange right now and this deck:

    UWR Midrange (typical list)

    4 Restoration
    4 Snaps
    1-2 Clique
    Newly: 1-2 P&K
    What was posted as control? The same thing. Creatures are only one part of it, no sweepers, no hard control cards and an overabundance of early game only hard counters like pierce, snare and dispel.. umm thats midrange and theres nothing wrong with that, UWR midrange is a control deck and heart however it isn't really "control".



    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    [quote from="Spooly »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/220015-uwr-control?comment=6079"]T16 From SCG Columbus.

    Creatures (10)
    3 Restoration Angel
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    1 Vendilion Clique
    Planeswalkers (2)
    2 Ajani Vengeant

    I like the list, that said.. i think this is UWR midrange not control
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • posted a message on [Primer] Jeskai Control / UWR Control
    I think the issue here is how you guys view what this deck is supposed to be. The way that most of the current lists are constructed could be best described as 'midrange', not true control. You just want to interact early to disrupt what your opponent is trying to do, and then turn the corner to fly over them with Angels and Colonnades to outrace them to the finish. You're not looking to kill everything forever and then slowly beat them with something inevitable and hard to interact with like Nephalia Drownyard. If you 'are' looking for that sort of deck, UW or Esper colors are far more conducive to eternal 2-for-1s and unbeatable win conditions.

    Tl;dr - Why do you play Lightning Bolt in your 'control' deck? It's not because you're trying to control the board forever.

    If you're going to play sweepers in the main, you need to rework the creature base.


    While I can't say if that particular build you commented about not using sweepers is good advice or bad (my gut says they can main board some sweepers if they position themselves to be stronger after a reset but that would take playtesting).

    I feel like your equating control with prison control tho, which is kind of right and wrong at the same time. I mean its obvious that UW will be able to generate more of a prison (besides the lists that are beginning to be really heavily leaning toward midrange). However the more bare bones 4-6 creature builds with plainswalkers are still more grindy and control than 90% of the field. UWR strength in my opinion is just to disrupt for so long that the tide turns at some point at which point you play your threats and kill I'd say colonnade is literally 75% of my kills when playing a strictly UWR control build however that doesnt really mean its midrange.

    Now the builds that have been posted here for a while:
    4 Angels
    4 snaps
    2 Pia
    2 Cliques
    + plainswalker

    This doesnt look like UWR control anymore, its midrange anytime you get Pia + resto in the mainboard you are UWR midrange, the UWR midrange thread is buzzing with the exact same build.
    Posted in: Modern Archives - Proven
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.